Thanksgiving Special: 6 Underutilized Mechanics

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Thanksgiving Special: 6 Underutilized Mechanics
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 Asura.Icilies
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By Asura.Icilies 2020-11-25 15:27:25
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Don't miss out on the live recording!

Rua and Myself are going to chat about 6 mechanics that are not used enough! Or maybe you forgot about them. Grab a drink and join us!

Thursday 10PM PST

Happy Thanksgiving!

https://twitch.tv/nudawnlinkshell
https://youtube.com/nudawnlinkshell


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 Asura.Aeonova
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By Asura.Aeonova 2020-11-25 22:57:17
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BST using Charm.
SCH using their enmity view ability; name escapes me. Scan?
WHM ever using teleport spells since Field Manuals and Survival Guides, unless a Recall is needed for Ambuscade kills, I never use them anymore.
SMN using Garuda's Predator Claws. Man was that the backbone of SMN for so long. Mostly I just see Ifrit and Ramuh these days.
PLD/NIN tanking. Maybe it is used, but I never see it.
MNK and Chi Blast. They messed with Boost and I know I never hear or see Chi Blast talked about.

Those are six that came to mind.

No clue what all of the icons on this banner image is though. Feeding Tube? Shining/Glittering Ruby? Boxing turkey?
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-11-25 23:01:15
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I was trying to think of stuff that's "not used" anymore too. Couldn't think of any real ones. (that aren't nerfed)

"enough" being the qualifier probably makes all 6 "not reallys"

/Drg isn't used enough, cover because it's impossible, decoy cause that setup is slow, circles, blind potions for gazes lol
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By Asura.Aeonova 2020-11-25 23:07:43
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Been a while since I had to go WHM/BLM to anything to tractor people through doors and Raise them. I feel like that was a popular thing back during Sky events to get to Byakko.

Asura.Eiryl said: »
blind potions for gazes

Don't recall ever even knowing that was a thing. I just would turn around and face away through Gaze moves.
 Asura.Chiaia
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By Asura.Chiaia 2020-11-25 23:11:08
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
blind potions for gazes
Is this actually a thing? I've never heard this one before and been around since the start.
 Asura.Icilies
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By Asura.Icilies 2020-11-25 23:11:33
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:)
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-11-25 23:13:38
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Have to read oldwiki:
Quote:
Several forms of doom, such as from Tauri (Mortal Ray) and Vampyr (Eternal Damnation), are Gaze Attacks, meaning its target(s) must be facing the user for doom to take effect. Because of this, just like all other gaze attacks, there are four ways to prevent being doomed against these enemies:

Tanking backwards;
Turning around before the ability is used;
Attacking the monster from the side or from behind (outside the gaze cone) and being sure not to pull hate.;
Being afflicted with Blindness when the ability is used.
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 Sylph.Brahmsz
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By Sylph.Brahmsz 2020-11-25 23:16:48
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Asura.Chiaia said: »
Asura.Eiryl said: »
blind potions for gazes
Is this actually a thing? I've never heard this one before and been around since the start.
I believe this was a strategy for doing the hecteyes bcnm way way back in the day to avoid their gaze attacks. This still technically works today, but it varies mob to mob.
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By Chimerawizard 2020-11-25 23:22:11
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Asura.Chiaia said: »
Asura.Eiryl said: »
blind potions for gazes
Is this actually a thing? I've never heard this one before and been around since the start.

I think it was a meme waywayway back. Like running away from goblin bombs.
Running from goblin bombs was a meme? why? I was in many parties that would have whoever has hate runs away so the bomb only hit him. That kept our party active longer because healers wouldn't need to rest as often. It worked nearly every time.
well, at least after they patched utsusemi to not just eat the bomb for us. those were the real good times.
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 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2020-11-25 23:46:29
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Asura.Aeonova said: »
MNK and Chi Blast. They messed with Boost and I know I never hear or see Chi Blast talked about.

You probably mean for damage, which... yeah, good example. But notable that Chi Blast is still extremely useful for inhibiting mob TP (with Penance merits) for lowman/low TP feed setups, and still very commonly used for that purpose.

A few others:

  • NIN "spinning the wheel" of elemental ninjutsu to weaken mob against an element then nuke the next element.

  • NIN/DRK tanking

  • MNK/WAR Counterstance tanking (Salvage!)

  • Astral Flow burn exp parties (Korroloka Tunnel)

  • BLM sleep/timed nuke exp parties (or solo), or variations like PUP/SCH solo with sleep+puppet nukes.

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 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-11-26 00:22:37
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Evasion builds, steal, scavenge, ummmmm.... Flee, DNC, aaaaand poison?
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By Bismarck.Batton 2020-11-26 02:07:50
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1/2 SCH's toolkit / Stratagems..., SCH's 2nd SP, have had plenty of times to use it and forget it's there..
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 Asura.Aeonova
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By Asura.Aeonova 2020-11-26 04:00:50
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Underutilized Mechanics: wearing any armor from levels 1 ~ 98.
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By SimonSes 2020-11-26 08:49:45
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My initial thought by watching those graphic leads were those:

1. Regen instead of cures?
2. Blind effect from flash or blind in general?
3. I dont know.
4. Pacifying Ruby?
5. Countering?
6. Allies roll? Avanger roll? or something about rolling in general? Like pre-rolling 11?

After reading comments tho, I think 2. is probably about blind potion after all. Have no clue what this hashtag and turkey boxer represent tho XD
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-11-26 09:07:09
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The hashtag is a symbol that floats around the bards when they're singing.


If the icons are the things they're gonna talk about then... songs and rolls and carby are solidly in the "used too much" category, not the "not enough" category. Same with regen, prebuffing 10 minute regens for ambuscade is a super common tactic.

Chimerawizard said: »
Running from goblin bombs was a meme? why? I was in many parties that would have whoever has hate runs away so the bomb only hit him. That kept our party active longer because healers wouldn't need to rest as often. It worked nearly every time.

It was a meme that running in circles and/or away would cause the goblin to drop the bomb on himself more often. Running to avoid the aoe damage if you were fast enough was legit, but not the increasing drop vs throw rate. (I always preferred the ghetto stun with lullaby)
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By Taint 2020-11-26 09:17:37
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Stun being a huge fight necessity.

Those clutch DRK stuns were incredibly satisfying.
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By SimonSes 2020-11-26 09:23:25
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
The hashtag is a symbol that floats around the bards when they're singing.

If the icons are the things they're gonna talk about then... songs and rolls and carby are solidly in the "used too much" category, not the "not enough" category. Same with regen, prebuffing 10 minute regens for ambuscade is a super common tactic.

Well its kinda obvious icons represent things they will discuss, since there are 6 of them and they want to talk about 6 mechanics and throwing 6 random graphics like that would have no sense :D

If hashtag is lead to BRD then its probably dirge/sirvante (again) or Mambo.

Not sure what you mean by Carby being used too much? Especially I think its clearly about Pacifycing ruby, which for sure isnt overused, because I havent seen it used even once in last 2 years, but thats also because I havent seen SMN being used in group event for a long time too, with exception of mewing slave.

Rolls are obviously very common, but some are used very rarely. That being said Allies are probably not one of them. Avanger's roll could be, but not sure how would they argument about using it over other rolls, especially when there is only 1 COR.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-11-26 09:31:10
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That was kinda my original point, what defines "enough"

Avenger's roll specifically isn't used but the idea is. Counter sam build, nin counter build, mnk main tank all come up.

Pacifying ruby specifically isn't but the concept is. Less enmity over all with a single DD. And/or enmity - gear / Songs

It's like saying "ninjas don't use GK enough!" ... well obviously, samurai does.

There are tons of "underutilized" things... because the only "utilized things" are Zerg, Zerg, Zerg, Zerg, Zerg, and smn burn (and subtle blow one dd 5 buffers)
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By FaeQueenCory 2020-11-26 09:49:22
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Bismarck.Batton said: »
SCH's 2nd SP, have had plenty of times to use it and forget it's there..
You mean to tell me that other people don't use SCH's FU button to kill people in the party that are annoying them?
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By SimonSes 2020-11-26 09:51:38
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Avenger's roll specifically isn't used but the idea is. Counter sam build, nin counter build, mnk main tank all come up.

I dont think any of that is actually utilized. MNK just counters, because the counter is build in. Same for NIN, or default counter from seigan, but tactics focused around those job utilizing counter sets? Beside discussion about BST using counter for Shedu, I havent seen anything else like that in whole 2020.

Asura.Eiryl said: »
Pacifying ruby specifically isn't but the concept is. Less enmity over all with a single DD. And/or enmity - gear / Songs

Enmity songs are still only utilized rarely when you overbuff for something like wave 3 boss and - enmity in gear is almost never prioritized on DD jobs. On support jobs its usually just part of the best gear (like whm neck has -25). Pacifying ruby is also hate reset, not just enmity - Its different concept after all.

Also in general I dont think that some concept being overused on one job is a metric that it cant be considered underutilized on other. Like counter tanking on BST is not the same as counter tanking on MNK and its definitely something niche and rather new. Same could be said for BLU resetting TP or BLU applying -MDB, while Mew Lullaby and Malaise are very common.
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-11-26 09:57:25
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Buukki has been off and on bringing up his SAM counter build all year (2020 math is weird but I think it's been "recently discussed") Same with NIN counter... that was just a month ago (ish... right?) Even counter PLD was discussed this year. Counter BST just this week.

Again it just comes down to semantics. "ooze isn't used enough" But ageha, shell crusher, full break are. It's a non starter.

Cure 1 isn't used enough! Raise 1 isn't used enough! ... I mean, yeah cause obviously. Inundation isn't used "enough" cause zerg. Elemental DoT isn't used "enough" cause zerg. Archery isn't used "enough" cause reasons.
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By SimonSes 2020-11-26 10:12:39
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Again it just comes down to semantics. "ooze isn't used enough" But ageha, shell crusher, full break are. It's a non starter.

Lets agree to disagree then, because for me its not the same. Something obvious on one job is not automatically obvious on other job. Ambu Gaxe build on DRK is classified nishe and underutilized, even when Great Axe is bread and butter for WAR. Same with other similar concepts. Its especially nice to talk about it now too, when we have lack of new content and some people can just break the boredom by utilizing different strategies. Some people also still play for fun you know and most optimized strategies (like zerg in most examples) are not priority for them. They dont need to optimize for gil/h like some RMTs ;) and can just do stuff in maybe more relaxing/safer/different way, that will bring more joy for them.
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By Asura.Geriond 2020-11-26 10:19:29
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Those are job options, not mechanics, though. Mechanics are broad concepts, like counters, or enmity down, or turning away from gazes.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-11-26 10:19:30
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Well, it's the "mechanic" not the "specific" as per OP's wording. so.

"defense down mechanic" is "over utilized" how it's activated is irrelevant.

*Beat by literally one second* Nice
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By Xaander 2020-11-26 10:24:43
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Anything Spirit Surge related:
Drg Spirit Surge + Super Jump emnity reduction for the person nearest the drg. Also Spirit Surge + High Jump tp reduction for the mob. There were times I used to have to use them, but it was niche even on release of Spirit Surge. Why they made it eat the wyvern, I'll never understand. Losing the wyvern was better than dying though, and there were times I had to use Spirit Surge as a cure to survive.

So, using an SP ability for partial emnity reduction of an ally near you and reduction of mob TP as niche mechanics are my points.
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By SimonSes 2020-11-26 10:29:35
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Well, it's the "mechanic" not the "specific" as per OP's wording. so.

"defense down mechanic" is "over utilized" how it's activated is irrelevant.

*Beat by literally one second* Nice

I guess I took OP wording more loosely then, but maybe Im completely wrong with my predictions too and its actually very precise wording XD
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By Xaander 2020-11-26 10:33:23
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SimonSes said: »
Asura.Eiryl said: »
Well, it's the "mechanic" not the "specific" as per OP's wording. so.

"defense down mechanic" is "over utilized" how it's activated is irrelevant.

*Beat by literally one second* Nice

I guess I took OP wording more loosely then, but maybe Im completely wrong with my predictions too and its actually very precise wording XD

I thought it was more general too. My bad, I guess lol
 Asura.Icilies
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By Asura.Icilies 2020-11-26 12:02:24
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Xaander said: »
SimonSes said: »
Asura.Eiryl said: »
Well, it's the "mechanic" not the "specific" as per OP's wording. so.

"defense down mechanic" is "over utilized" how it's activated is irrelevant.

*Beat by literally one second* Nice

I guess I took OP wording more loosely then, but maybe Im completely wrong with my predictions too and its actually very precise wording XD

I thought it was more general too. My bad, I guess lol

Semantics may get me. Use mechanics more loosely
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-11-26 12:13:54
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So the tl:dw is "we don't use this stuff this way" How come? "Cause it's slower." That's every conversation that ever comes up, is it not?

We don't "use this roll" because you'd have to give up sams/wars/drks roll for it and lose 5 seconds.

Food/Meds (icon one?) definitely only loosely fits this. Yeah you lose a second to pop a remedy or you lose 10 waiting for whm to get to you if you're last. (non yagrush caveat etc)
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