Primed For Adventure Feedback

I am going to put together a post based on what the community would like to see in future streams. I'll post it to the Official Forums

It would be a good idea to keep a few things in mind, I think:

1. What would new or those thinking about returning want to see?
2. What would current players want to see?

Post your thoughts and I'll pull it all together.

From the other thread:

1.Try to have a few more educational elements of new additions to the game
a.Explain Equipsets
b.How equipsets work with Macros

2.Potentially invite veteran player as guests to go ever mechanics of the content that is being done that night.

Replace Oki and Sigh with players who accurately represent average playerbase. At least have them play more than 2 hours every sixty days, outside of the stream.

Just like the devs, just like the director, the people who represent the community, don't even play the *** game. Okieeomi and Sicycre have zero AH transaction history. At least pretend.

Play the game more. I'll pull something from that

thanks for your work, i'm sure they'll make some changes

My five cents, or how we say it here "pięć groszy" :P

I would break down content that you can show in FFXI promoting stream on 2 main category - storytelling and repeated events.

1. Storytelling is for example playing through quest and missions to showcase story, characters etc. this can be done by person with not much experience tbh. Its more important to be a good commentator and interact with chat to showcase stuff like that.

2. Repeated events is all the things we do multiply times to grind something. So Ambusade, Odyssey, Omen, Dynamis etc. This require more experience from streamer. You need to know the game and be at least avg player to show actual average gameplay, so people who watch it and are interested in playing the game for the first time or go back from long break, have the realistic vision of how the game works.

I didnt watch those streams, but afaik those girls are more suited for this first category. If they actually want to showcase anything from 2nd category, they would need to start playing the game more. The problem is, I dont think they are actually passionate about FFXI gameplay. From the interview I feel like they previously mostly played because of community was great and because they liked the story. If you are not a huge fan of FFXI mechanics and tactical approach to gearing, you probably wont be motivated to ever touch this game more then your job requires from you. If those girls were loving FFXI like for example I do, they would play it not only during job, once per month, but also for their own pleasure. They probably like XIV more or maybe even other games and forcing them at this point to try to learn FFXI enough to be good to showcase mechanics in ambuscade is probably a lost cause. People forced to do something will then make streams, that will also look forced. So I see only 2 options. Hire some more experienced players to make streams from grind events and let those girls do storytelling streams, or just dont hire anyone and dont stream grind events at all, because like Eiryl said, it will only insult hardcore players and potential new players will have a false idea how the game is played.

You really think that they stream with their actual characters?

I.....actually agree with Eiryl.

Watching them suck *** vs boring content isn't going to draw people to subscribe. I think it would be more logical to stream a competent group doing a dyna zone win or something.

From the other thread from Loona:

The problems with these streams are legion:

* they take place the Finalfantasyxi that gets so little use it virtually has no audience outside the people keeping an eye on the FFXI site or Twitter (well, the announcements might get retweeted by the main SE account, but these things are so infrequent and the announcement so close to the actual event that it's very easy to miss - most of the audience I saw in the chat seemed to consist of people who already play, so it was basically preaching to the choir.
Also, IIRC the channel basically got created and is only ever used by Sisycre, and for all I know that's just another branch of apparent ambitions of being a pro streamer (I think she got partnered on her own personal channel a few years back?) - this seems to give more visibility to her than it does to the actual game.
If they want to give more visibility Lilith to XI, isn't there a main SE channel they could do it on?
Also, why not upload this stuff on the official XI YouTube channel?
Dies Japan keep such a tight grip on it that they don't let foreign community reps upload to it?

* the "primed for adventure" font looks like it's from XIV - this is not helping

* Ambuscade is mean I guess to people not already playing the game, it's a gear hint activity only interesting in terms of mechanics and rewards to those already invested - and those people can likely find more compelling content on channels than stteam/upload more often while doing more difficult content

* the fact they they're supposedly trying to promote a Final Fantasy game takes absolutely no advantage or makes reference to the kinds of things people (want to) k ow about Final Fantasy games, like characters or stories - IIRC some prior stream may have covered some story tidbits, it the bulk of these things has CO sister of Ambuscade, who h again, means nothing to the wider FF audience - you know, the audience that when a XI character gets released for a crossover spinoff like Dissidia or Record Keeper simply goes "who?..." - they could try and help cover those gaps, synergizing with the dates of such releases in other games, instead of streams that aren't even monthly and monthly Twitter quizzes about NMs which are also meaningless to people not already playing.

Basically, this sales funnel is so narrow it barely hits its own pre-existing audience, which is already kinda served by itself, accustomed as it is to being left to its own devices outside the translation of Japanese announcements.

And the sad thing is that most companies might kill for a game that's lasted as long as XI has, and SE could have realized by now that it's sitting on something special and frying to emphasize, or at least understand, its strengths to present them to a broader public - not that they haven't gotten a bit better (the main SE Twitter has retweeted XI stuff in the recent past, but the reactions to those cases speak for themselves, with the frequent surprise at the game still being active).

But if these rep o my take 1 day in the whole month do do anything with XI, dedicating the rest to XIV (which I'm sure can be a handful, but they have multiple people anyway), it's hard to expect efforts to be effective or any feedback to be taken into account (the official forums don't have much of a history for providing sat8sfying responses, and they have said on stream that they read places like this and Reddit, so the burden is on them to do right, we're already paying the sub and trying to pitch in in our own ways to keep the game and it's community afloat).

I'm thinking about how they balance bringing something productive to the community with acknowledging the community makes good content.

I'd like to a stream happen more often but find a way to appeal to existing members while also driving new subs.

I think the community here needs to better at supporting. Despite what Eiryl says these streams are gaining real traction.

You can look at the total views for past streams and last nights stream has 1.2k Views already vs the 400 views of the first 3 of the year.

Not for nothing but had there been no "drama" about how shitty it was, no one would've watched it. There is some draw in watching a trainwreck... that doesn't make it good. The live number really did peak at 170 or so I think, I didn't watch intently but it was the highest I saw.

No one knew it was coming up. No one posted about it (except me). Yojimmbo did in RQT. Sort of.

There was nothing on reddit. Nothing on the OF. I guess there's a post on twitter? I don't use twitter. Nothing on facebook? Nothing here other than the newsfeed that no one looks at (a week ago)

Where would you prefer them advertise?

Where are all the people that play their game? Where do they hope to draw new people from?

Have an actual social media presence. Someone that actually does reddit, bg, twitter, twitch, youtube, do more cross-over with 14, hell, put it in the /smes, use yell, give rewards. Pander for christs sake lol. Advertise on the wiki. Get BG to put up a banner. Get AH to to sticky it in the "latest threads" menu for a week, instead of relying on me to spite bump/post it.

They put absolute zero into it.

Maybe advertise we're actually going to do something other than spend two hours on 4 easy ambuscades... that's not really entertaining. How many views does a rua ambuscade video get? A Mrgrimm ambuscade video? an Ejinn ambuscade video? Logicals solo easy has 1k views.

I don't know that this is the correct place to give this feedback as it relates to the NuDawn Podcast.




A discussion about the quality and state of the game across the different expansions. Why doesn't Seekers of Adoulin get more love? The two jobs it added were game changing. It showed that after all the time the game has been around the team at SE was still listening to their player base because they expanded upon REM weapons to allow players to carry them along into the new era when initially they weren't going to. For a game that was supposed to be dead, it was a revival.

I understand many people love the Rise of Zilart days of sky and Chains of Promathia's subsequent end game, but were they objectively better? Sure seekers had what some deem the problems of Wings of the Goddess with the slowly releasing story, but after two expansions of reused zones (including Abyssea) the new zones that Seekers brought to the table felt fresh. People harp on the difficulty of the airship battle to garner access to sea, but I look at that as a massive blunder on the part of SE. People missed out on experiencing the content that followed and couldn't complete Chains of Promathia at all. People couldn't find statics willing to complete the fights with them and it cemented a divide in the community of what are deemed elite echelons and casual gamers that enjoyed the story. Even today the remnants of those cliques linger as people try to impose those same mentalities upon the community. This idea that someone is better than someone else or should look down on someone else for struggling.

Square-Enix has perpetually tried to remedy this even with the most recent patch's addition to the mentor system. I'm afraid it's all for not. People don't want to go back to help other players complete content without reward. They literally sell Ambuscade wins. I'm sure if they had thought to play like that back during Chains of Promathia they would have. I do recall groups selling Byakko's Haidate during Rise of Zilart for comparable prices to Scorpion Harness +1 and Haubergeon +1. The difference was that the story mission fights required everyone to participate at a certain level, whereby one person's efforts could be the difference. Today that experience is lost. Even the VD Ambuscade can be taken down with 5/6 allowing a buyer to leech. It needs adjustments.

I missed out on the initial rise of Escha zones from Rhapsodies of Vanadiel. I wonder if it was like another era of Abyssea, but I simply can't compare it with an era I didn't partake in. I came back to play at the tail end of Abyssea before the Seekers of Adoulin launch. To that effect, was Rhapsodies not groundbreaking? Maybe the community is jaded at this point. Maybe it's not the content of the old state of the game that they miss, but their former friends that played with them. There are people that made lifelong friendships that extended outside the game, but I don't know that that was 100% caused by the game itself. The game was certainly a component that brought people together, but it wasn't what shaped the lifelong friendships. I would argue that has more to do with personality types that play the game finding each other in Vanadiel commonly.

That's the kind of discussion I would be interested in hearing. I don't feel the community team was invested enough in the current state of the game to really touch on it. It was nice to hear their feedback, but Aya touched on some of the current problems whereby the upper echalons shape the job meta with her mention of people trying to shoehorn her into playing Corsair. This leads me to question is Paladin really in an unfavorable state or is it that people in the so called cliques prefer Rune Fencer's so they shutdown the players that would bring Paladin to the table. I understand wanting to min/max at this stage of the game, but at a certain point a win is a win. Does it really matter if you finish a fight a minute faster so long as you still finish? Items used to be markers of a testament to a player's ability, but at a certain point you have to wonder if they're the only thing. Is it really just that the Rune Fencer has an Epeolatry, or were they doing other things in addition to contribute to the flow of the fight? Was it that Paladin's weren't using all the tools in their arsenal, or was it that they abandoned the job after the notoriety that came from having Aegis/Ochain was usurped by Epeolatry? Even Epeolatry can be considered unnecessary. The playerbase is very much what shapes the state of the game. I don't believe Discord echo chambers are
helpful to discussions as weaker personalities fall in line with more dominant ones. Ruaumoko mentioned kicking players from his groups for overwriting a Warrior's War Cry. Was the buff being overwritten detrimental to the team's success, or was it the tantrum the warrior threw the problem? At a certain point maybe the warrior should've been removed from the group instead.

Someone like Ejin would be an amazing guest to have on the podcast. I would love to hear about his experiences over the years that have lead him to his current position. Was he always a 6-boxer or did it evolve out of necessity as the player base dwindled. Conversely, did he become a 6-boxer for more selfish reason? Is he someone like Rooks that has a background in coding? I really enjoyed the Rooks interview. I've also really enjoyed Ejin's tutorials. I've seen signs of the community beginning to take after Ejin's example. I'm not sure if this is for the good of the game or not, but it certainly feels more like Final Fantasy when you have a party of different characters to gear and control like the turn based games of old.

Yes, this is about the Primed for Adventure Streams. But thank you for the detailed post

I don't think some understand what a community stream is for, it's not to show off how uber you are.

It's to try intice some new players in, to show off some basic content and to encourage players at 99 to do something in groups instead of hitting a brick wall and quitting. They always show easier clears, easier content.

They aren't streamers trying to build a following, they are promoting the game to a specific group of people and/or trying to encourage people to do things to keep them invested.

Even if that's your view, doing easy ambuscade doesn't accomplish that.

Showcasing easy ambuscades accomplishes nothing. It doesn't make people want to start, it doesn't help anyone decide to stay, it doesn't show new stuff, it doesn't show fun stuff, it doesn't even show "here's some tips for doing it" because they don't even know how to do it. Aside from the obvious "make their hp zero before yours is zero"

I mean yeah, I'm jaded. Is anyone inspired to return by their failboat Easy ambuscade struggles?

They're probably better on the eyes than reading your posts shitting everything up.

Seriously, could you be even more cynical? You're wildly overestimating the % of the population that are hardcore endgamers.

I think the content is fine, their main hurdle is that they only happen every two months. You can't show off the game when you have two hours every sixty days. They need to be able to show off a variety of content, and Ambuscade is simply the easiest to get people for.

my only thinking is that they have very strict guidelines from up above on how to advertise and what they can show. could be the difference between doing a poor job and just being held back.

Having their hands tied contributes to lack of eyeballs. Sure.

Being trashcans infront of the eyeballs they do get isn't helpful either.

If they were good/doing something entertaining, more people would watch the next one. More watch, they get more support. They get more freedom to advertise. Snowball. It all stems from getting people worth watching.

Then why are you posting? When is the last time you positively contributed to any conversation on this site?

(I'm saying your posts are trash)

Boredom, zombie apocalypse etc.

Annoying you pleases me.

I'm also not trying to con newbs into picking up 11, so I'm trash for my own amusement. Not to have a positive impact on anyone.

Negative feedback is more important than positive feedback. More whiteknighting isn't going to move the needle, but addressing obvious flaws, might.

I think a basic consideration here is that a a quick glance on Twitch doesn't really demonstrate a ton of demand for FFXI streams in general.

So while the official streams might pale compared to popular content on Twitch, they don't seem out of line for the game.


Personally, I'm not too inclined to watch streams/archives of just people playing for hours on end. I've watched some challenge/speedrun type stuff for Souls games, but that's about it.

For XI or XIV, I'm more inclined to watch short videos detailing content/strategy. Stuff like the Ambuscade videos mentioned earlier is a lot different because you're talking a 5-10 minute video with a point to it, rather than "hanging out" with the hosts.

To me, a more interesting use of the very limited official streams would be to get some actual developer participation - run through missions with someone that helped design them, and get some commentary. Do a job or equipment showcase. Warp around and talk about zone design or music, etc.
That's the sort of thing that'd see the archived stream linked and shared for a long time.
Even if they did basic stuff like messing with the new Bonanza weapons, it'd be a reason to tune in, because it'd be something nobody else could show us.

Based on other stream numbers, doing harder content or something isn't going to change much.

To be clear, I in no way say they need to do dienamis or omen bosses or VD ambuscade. or appealing to hardcore players in the slightest.

Merely that easy amuscades may infact be the worst possible thing they could do. While being bad at it.

Given the myriad options they could do. Like this

I feel its totally opposite. What they are doing is more suited for streamer promoting himself. Stream based on personality and having fun instead of showcasing reality of the game is not focused on game..

You should show what avg player who came back or start the game do. The ultimate best example imo of someone who showcase what should be showcased is Cloudchief. He plays vanilla. He is very consistent with streams/youtube. He solo old content, but pug for ambuscade etc. He has good understanding of general game mechanics. He makes effort to showcase stuff like farming REMs or early end game mats while intentionally wearing spark or easy to obtain gear to simulate new/returning player experience. He knows a lot of tips to make the most out of your time (like stacking exp rings etc.). He is sometimes confused about whats actually better to gear for something, but thats actually also good, because most avg players are even more confused about that too. Someone like him would probably be ideal for this job.

You need to learn what feedback is and then how to appropriately deliver it. Positive or Negative.

Regardless of your capacity to accomplish such a task so far, I’m still pulling themes out from your post which may be valid points

If I wanted to actually give feedback, it would be on the of.

I just wanted to complain about it originally. Now I'm stuck in an answering questions/replying loop instead.

(I would genuinely like to see people who are more qualified for their jobs, have them. Not anyone specifically, not windower heroes, not Epeen tards, simply someone(s) better representative of the community... you know, someone who plays more than once a year, someone who earned their master, their mythic, someone that uses equipsets... the basics.)

((I also know that's not their goal, they don't care, and that's my "whole picture" complaint)) They don't give a ***, and no one cares that they don't.

Hardcore endgame players only comprise a fraction of the active player base and incoming new subscriptions. There are a LOT of casual players who just stick to leveling jobs to 99, baseline gearing and doing quests/story content. Haphazard E/N Ambu runs with randoms ARE exciting/fun for them, and could be as big of a challenge as they'll ever undertake.

Streams like P.F.A., Huntin4Games, Chuwei, etc will appeal to casual players and prospective casual players. They're more about discovery, nostalgia and lighthearted fun.

If it's unbearable for you to watch, then you're obviously not the target audience.

Is that Aya and Danielle from the recent podcast's stream for SE? If it is their stream, then:
makes more sense.
They need to invest more time into playing XI because it seemed apparent that they didn't have the gear required to do fights. They reflect their target audience that hits 99, gets their Eminent gear, does the mission storylines, and then flounder.

The game is a slog. It takes a long time to accomplish things on fresh accounts without support from the community. You can't log on every day and expect everything to fall into your lap. Small daily goals need set. They need to encourage players to team up and not just buy clears. That means teaming up with community members that are willing to show what natural progression should look like. Players that know the mechanics of the content and can teach them how to teach others. The problem is that this isn't feasible for reasons similar to what I stated about the disparity between these supposed new returning players and what can be called the upper echelons of the player base. They don't want to help as it potentially cuts into their bottom line. Something Ruaumoko touched on with regards to his videos on how to do Ambuscades. Sometimes it's not even about money, but superiority complexes. There's been no policing of player personalities.

There are resources available to them. BG-wiki has a ton of content to help them figure out how to accomplish objectives. They need to first decide are they trying to low-man everything with one to two active accounts and trusts or a full active party. If it's say just Aya and Danielle then things like trust acquisition needs to be a priority. Showcase how to go about acquiring trusts like the Ark Angels. Explain sometimes it's about just waiting for Extravaganza's to acquire more. Ygnas comes to mind as being important. This leads to underlying plot lines of how to get Ygnas. Showing the daily tasks that need to be accomplished in the push for him. I think one of them should play Rune Fencer and the other Geomancer. Making an ergon ties in with Ygnas acquisition.

FFXI in it's current iteration is a part time job in it's own right. In between streams they still need to be working on the accounts they use for the stream's showcase. One stream shows where to farm capacity points, and then by the next stream they need to put the work in behind the scenes to finish job mastery on their own so that they can progress the narrative of the stream. That means having a layout of each stream along the lines of: what did we do since our last stream, what are we working on today, and where do we want to get to in order to set up for our off stream time.

There's no daily roulettes in XI that are comparable to XIV. This lack of direction can be daunting for some players. There's no shame in grinding a few Ambuscades, farming some cards in Omen, and doing some capacity point farming for the daily grind. Some people need to find their own routines based upon what their long term goals are. If they only intend to stream for an hour or two, then they need to be sure to reupload to youtube for an archive that players can look back on. That means one stream could be tackling an Omen boss followed by some daily routines before ending the stream. Another stream can be entering Dynamis Divergence. It's ok to fail at these events. Part of it can simply be exploration of the content until they get a better understanding. Are they looking to hunker down and grind? Are they looking to highlight enjoying the process?

The stream needs to be once every month to coincide with the update then they need to highlight what comes each update first and foremost. That means showcasing how to do each Ambuscade (normal and intense). They need to put in more work behind the scenes, but they can't over gear. They have to show the minimum requirements to have success in the content.

Maybe Ejin's ban was an indirect means of asking him how to start over. I would look for his vods to figure out how he progressed so quickly.
Rejin

yeah, if anyone should be a community rep it should be the huntin4games guy. he's actually into the game and knows about it :x