Best Aeolean Edge Dagger

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Best Aeolean Edge dagger
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 Fenrir.Kaldaek
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By Fenrir.Kaldaek 2020-07-22 12:44:29
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Good Afternoon!

Is Gandring the BiS AE dagger?
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By SimonSes 2020-07-22 12:51:23
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Fenrir.Kaldaek said: »
Good Afternoon!

Is Gandring the BiS AE dagger?

If you are talking about doing AE while evasion tanking 10+ fodders, then yes. If you aren't tanking and need to make TP on your own, then bis is probably Tauret/Centovente or Tauret/somethingelse.
 Shiva.Flowen
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By Shiva.Flowen 2020-07-22 12:57:20
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Yeah, Gandring path C is great because you gain a lot of TP by evading attacks so can AE more frequently but the weapon isn't best for damage. I think it is probably tauret/cento or aeneas/cento as the ws gains more fTP post 2k TP vs 1k to 2k.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-07-22 12:57:57
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Short answer yes. C

While I debated how detailed I wanted to bother answering. Two people answered.
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By Baidos 2020-07-22 13:22:36
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In my case if I want max dmg from AE I just use max Malevolence x2, that If I'm taking my time to get as close as possible to 3k TP. If I need to WS as soon as I can then off-hand Centovente will beat second Malevolence any day. If I'm pulling enough mobs to feed me tp with main hand path C Gandring, then I usually just off hand one malevolence with it, cause it is fast to get to 3k tp like that.
Idk if Tauret beats max Malevolence, if it does then it is best to use that instead ofcourse.
 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2020-07-22 14:21:00
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As a RNG who uses Malevolence a lot, in raw damage for a single Aeolian Edge it should win over Tauret, but Tauret is a much better meleeing weapon so you may experience more WS's over time due to accuracy on the weapon, etc. Not to mention a higher crit rate during TP'ing.
 Fenrir.Kaldaek
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By Fenrir.Kaldaek 2020-07-22 14:33:29
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Baidos said: »
In my case if I want max dmg from AE I just use max Malevolence x2, that If I'm taking my time to get as close as possible to 3k TP. If I need to WS as soon as I can then off-hand Centovente will beat second Malevolence any day. If I'm pulling enough mobs to feed me tp with main hand path C Gandring, then I usually just off hand one malevolence with it, cause it is fast to get to 3k tp like that.
Idk if Tauret beats max Malevolence, if it does then it is best to use that instead ofcourse.

I was getting better numbers with tauret(main) than malevolence (main) on other magical WS's.

Anyone else comment?
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-07-22 14:36:03
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Strictly speaking ws numbers, that's not possible.

DPS, because tauret is ridiculous, yeah, of course.
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 Shiva.Flowen
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By Shiva.Flowen 2020-07-22 14:42:40
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Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
As a RNG who uses Malevolence a lot, in raw damage for a single Aeolian Edge it should win over Tauret, but Tauret is a much better meleeing weapon so you may experience more WS's over time due to accuracy on the weapon, etc. Not to mention a higher crit rate during TP'ing.

Although malevolance has higher MAB, Tauret's 15 dex and 15 int is also really nice for AE (dex/int 40% mod) where as the extra MAB makes malevolance better for trueflight and wildfire. Not tested this personally i'll admit.
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By SimonSes 2020-07-22 14:50:43
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Strictly speaking ws numbers, that's not possible.

DPS, because tauret is ridiculous, yeah, of course.

Why impossible?

Tauret has 99 Magic Damage more. Magic Damage is not multiplied by fTP, so on high fTP WS that Magic Damage will lose with mab, but on low fTP WS it probably won't. AE's fTP at 3000TP is kinda in middle, so idk what will pull ahead. At low TP Tauret will probably win.

Beside 99 more Magic Damage, Tauret has also 5 more INT and 15 more DEX. All that vs 28mab.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-07-22 14:57:47
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Strictly speaking AE dex int and mdmg do absolutely nothing. At least, in comparison to MAB

Other things that THF can't do; WF Leaden TF maybe. But we are talking about thf.
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By SimonSes 2020-07-22 16:13:45
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Strictly speaking AE dex int and mdmg do absolutely nothing. At least, in comparison to MAB

Other things that THF can't do; WF Leaden TF maybe. But we are talking about thf.

Its totally opposite. Magic damage is almost irrelevant for TF and Leaden, because they have massive WSC and very high fTP .

This is formula for magic damage ws (before mab etc.):
Code
Base Magical WS Damage = ((152 + floor((WeaponLevel-99)*2.45) + WSC) * fTP + dSTAT + Magic Damage (Statistic)


Like you see WSC and Base 201 damage is multiplied by fTP .
For something like Leaden at 2000TP+ (lets say 8.0ftp) with lets say 300 AGI its:

((201+300) * 8 + dSTAT + Magic Damage = 4008 + dSTAT + Magic Damage

Like you see additional 217 or 118 Magic Damage is marginal in comparison with 4008 damage. 4224 over 4126 is just 2.3% increase.

Now for AE at 2000TP+ (lets say 3.75 fTP)

WSC is hard to estimate but it will be around 200.

((201+200) * 3.75 + dSTAT (cap at 32) + Magic Damage = 1503 + dSTAT + Magic Damage

Like you see here difference is bigger. 1720 over 1621 is 6% increase.

The impact of Magic Damage will fall down slightly at 3000TP to around 5% increase, but will rise to almost 9% at around effective 1500TP.

THF's AE mab set has around 245 mab with Tauret/Cento (assuming herculeans with 35 mab augments). Malevolence will be 28 mab higher. 3.73 / 3.45 = 1.081, so around 8% increase.

Like you see at 1500TP Magic Damage alone can win with that mab.
At higher TP it will be a close fight, because 8 more WSC on Tauret will be around 2% increase. So Malevolence can very slightly win at 3000TP, but will lose at 2500. Considering other pros of Tauret, I would use it over Malevolence. Also keep in mind that if you add more mab (from buffs or DM augments for example), Malevolence mab will fall down even more, because of diminishing returns.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-07-22 16:17:48
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I mean this is one of those things where you just have to go do it. It's not a physical ws where numbers are "around this" they're exactly the same every time with ae.

Dex/Int+ do nothing, nor does Mdmg. It's like 20 dex/int for 1 mab

Don't know if the formula is wrong or AE is different, but in practice none of them move the damage. None of my still alive accounts have an AE set/malev or I would just post the damage myself.
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By SimonSes 2020-07-22 16:24:48
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
I mean this is one of those things where you just have to go do it.

Dex/Int+ do nothing, nor does Mdmg. It's like 20 dex/int for 1 mab

For sure not. 20DEX is around 1.9% increase. 1 mab is 0.2% increase.

Ofc assuming good set. If you have some crap set with low mab, then 1mab will be worth slightly more.

I cant test it, because I dont have Malevolence. Be my guest and prove my math wrong tho :)
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-07-22 16:39:45
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Way back here I was looking for the optimal set;
Asura.Eiryl said: »
2018-09-15 When I was playing around with AE increasing INT didn't really accomplish much.

It was like single digit increase in damage for every 10 INT. Full MAB/WSD is the way to go, and if those pieces happen to have some INT(DEX) then yay.
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By SimonSes 2020-07-22 17:18:59
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Way back here I was looking for the optimal set;
Asura.Eiryl said: »
2018-09-15 When I was playing around with AE increasing INT didn't really accomplish much.

It was like single digit increase in damage for every 10 INT. Full MAB/WSD is the way to go, and if those pieces happen to have some INT(DEX) then yay.

Cool, but we have 2020

Just tested on 24lv Dhalmel outside Mhaura.
Static stats: 189MAB, 2258TP, 28%WSD, 298DEX, /drg

1. With 224 INT - 6689 damage

expected: (((201+(298+224)*0.4) * 3.387 + 217 + 32) * 2.89 * 1.28 * 1.07 = 6479

2. With 240 INT - 6784 damage

expected: (((201+(298+240)*0.4) * 3.387 + 217 + 32) * 2.89 * 1.28 * 1.07 = 6565

expected increase: 1.32%
observed increase: 1.42%


Like you see observed increase is even higher than expected. Im not sure what makes damage slightly higher than expected. My guess would be that dINT isnt actually capped at 32.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-07-22 17:31:59
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I don't know what changed then, 16 int when I ran it back then was literally ~16 damage (or less) not 95
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By SimonSes 2020-07-22 17:35:04
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
I don't know what changed then, 16 int when I ran it back then was literally ~16 damage (or less) not 95

Maybe it was 16 damage, but it was from 1100 to 1116? :)
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-07-22 17:41:31
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Cant find screenshots, it might be on a different hardrive, but would've been 4~5k
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By Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget 2020-07-22 18:32:32
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What kind of gear is everyone using for Aeolian Edge these days and what kind of numbers can you get with it in Escha zones?
 Fenrir.Melphina
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By Fenrir.Melphina 2020-07-27 13:01:36
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Quote:
What kind of gear is everyone using for Aeolian Edge these days and what kind of numbers can you get with it in Escha zones?


This is the optimal aeolian edge gear set

ItemSet 368547

The best cape augment is 30 INT, 10 WSD, 20 Magic accuracy/magic damage, but the standard rudra's cape is pretty close. The goal for herculean is 35 magic attack or close to it with some magic accuracy and ideally weaponskill damage and dex or int, but the most important one is high magic attack.

I have all of the above on my aeolian edge build and a bit of extra potency from a 49 MaB dark matter campaign aug on my feet. I normally range 7-9k around 1000 TP and 12-13K around 3000 TP with it, provided the mobs aren't resistant to wind damage and don't have high magic defense. Party buffs and mob debuffs will affects numbers too of course, but this is what you want to aim for as a baseline.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-07-27 13:10:53
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Melphina annoying question I know but, AHEM, what would be the next-best combination that doesn't take into consideration random augments? °-°
 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2020-07-27 13:16:45
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I'd imagine if you dont' wish to deal with augments, some options would be-

Samnuha Coat
Meghanada Gloves+2 (no mab, but 7WSD is at least something productive)
Leyline Gloves
WSD based JSE

Sadly, 2 of those above you have to deal with the evils of Sinister Reign, which could likely be worse than dealing with Oseem and his desire to re-tile his bathroom with taupe/pellucid/fern stones.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-07-27 13:22:29
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Highwing Helm
Rawhide Vest
Meg+2 hands (should be better than pursuer's)
Shneddick +1 legs (relic +3 probably better)
Adhemar+1 feet

I think
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 Fenrir.Melphina
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By Fenrir.Melphina 2020-07-27 13:25:04
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Quote:
Samnuha Coat
Meghanada Gloves+2 (no mab, but 7WSD is at least something productive)
Leyline Gloves
WSD based JSE

Sadly, 2 of those above you have to deal with the evils of Sinister Reign, which could likely be worse than dealing with Oseem and his desire to re-tile his bathroom with taupe/pellucid/fern stones.
------
Highwing Helm
Rawhide Vest
Pursuer's Gloves
Shneddick +1 legs
Adhemar+1 feet

Pretty much these kind of options, and thanks for making me laugh about the Oseem comment. That seriously put a smile on my face when I needed it.

Several of the sinister reign pieces are comparable to herculean, but none of them match the strongest herc augs and investing in the Oseeem-o-lottery 5000!! does yield stronger pieces. Most people just use the Windower MAGA plugin to spam stones of their choice to speed up the process. This is what I have on my herculean set for reference. You can see the difference in stat lines between this and the non RNG alternatives. and I don't think I spent more than a dozen stacks of stones on any single piece. Since I was mainly concerned with the magic attack and accuracy I pretty much just used Pellucid stones for most of my augments, and they're among the cheapest of the lot. I didn't really bother with fern.

Ultimately the choice is up to you. The difference is there but it isn't terribly huge. Orpheus's sash is a bigger roadblock if you ask me, so as long as you have an aeolian edge set something akin to what's been suggested you should be pretty set.

 Asura.Jdove
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By Asura.Jdove 2020-07-27 13:48:35
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what about for mages?
 Fenrir.Melphina
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By Fenrir.Melphina 2020-07-27 13:56:09
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Quote:
what about for mages?

Red mage actually has stronger gear options than thief does. I've grouped with a red mage that was putting out 18-19K damage figures when i was averaging around 10-11K. I'm honestly not sure what he was wearing though, and I'm much less familiar with red mage gear options than thiefs. I asked him to show me his gear set and the accessories were similar similar, but his main 5 armor slots were much better. They had a lot more magic attack than I could get on my herculean. I think one piece in particlular had something like 70+ magic attack on it, but I really don't know off the top of my head.

The general gear focus for aeolian edge is

Magic attack --> Magic accuracy --> INT --> Dex/Magic damage

If you look through red mage's gear options I'm sure you can find what I'm missing. There's probably a set posted somewhere on the forms. I'll see if I can find a reference.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2020-07-27 13:56:27
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I’d assume that with the new wave of Unity augments, Ghastly Tathlum +1 has overtaken Seething Bomblet +1 for ammo slot. Anyone disagree?

Ghastly R15: INT+7~11, M.dmg+21
Seething R15: STR+11~15, MAB+7, Acc/Atk+13
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2020-07-27 13:59:19
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Asura.Jdove said: »
what about for mages?

a RDM Aeolian Edge set is going to look almost nothing like a THFs...I personally use the following for my RDM, and I do know my set for that job is a lot stronger than my THF's aeolian set:

sets.precast.WS['Aeolian Edge'] = {
head={ name="Merlinic Hood", augments={'Mag. Acc.+25 "Mag.Atk.Bns."+25','INT+11','Mag. Acc.+14','"Mag.Atk.Bns."+13',}},
neck="Baetyl Pendant",
left_ear="Malignance Earring",
right_ear="Regal Earring",
body={ name="Amalric Doublet +1", augments={'MP+80','Mag. Acc.+20','"Mag.Atk.Bns."+20',}},
hands="Jhakri Cuffs +2",
left_ring="Shiva Ring +1",
right_ring="Freke Ring",
back={ name="Sucellos's Cape", augments={'INT+20','Mag. Acc+20 /Mag. Dmg.+20','INT+10','"Mag.Atk.Bns."+10',}},
waist="Orpheus's Sash",
legs="Amalric Slops +1",
feet="Vitiation Boots +3"}
 Asura.Jdove
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By Asura.Jdove 2020-07-27 14:00:06
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Whats more potent on magical weapon skill mab or magic dmg?
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