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Emergency maintenance!!!!
I think the best fix to any of the duping issues is to dramatically increase the drop rates of all items across the board. This would simultaneously tank the value of the items in circulation while also working to discourage the "need" to cheat. I get that it's fun to see huge gil numbers and all, but after coming back to this game a few weeks ago I get the impression that everyone bots everything because the majority of players simply don't have the time to manually farm ***, but still want to be able to play the game.
Most players are so bad on Asura that it is hard to tell the difference between a bot and a real player.
At least the bots yell scripted things and don't yell stupid ***a lot.
So in some ways the bots are way more productive and easier to get along with than the players.
At least the bots yell scripted things and don't yell stupid ***a lot.
So in some ways the bots are way more productive and easier to get along with than the players.
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Asura.Snoctopus said: »
I think the best fix to any of the duping issues is to dramatically increase the drop rates of all items across the board. This would simultaneously tank the value of the items in circulation while also working to discourage the "need" to cheat. I get that it's fun to see huge gil numbers and all, but after coming back to this game a few weeks ago I get the impression that everyone bots everything because the majority of players simply don't have the time to manually farm ***, but still want to be able to play the game.
Low drop rates is an artificial way of keeping you playing and keeping them from having to make new content.
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Sweet, so they removed them all... This wasn't too big of a problem until they decided that pulse weapons were needed for ambuscade weapons and the prices of cells went sky high.
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Asura.Geriond said: »
Barring a few exceptions (Volte, Omen Bodies, Tartarus Platemail, Pulse Weapons), endgame drop rates are the highest they've ever been. Increasing drop rates by the amount necessary to do what you're saying would be almost no different from just introducing SE-sanctioned duping to FFXI itself.
Do the medals that were getting duped fall under this category as well? Since returning I've been trying to farm HMP and pulse weapons to gear up and get my older empyreans upgraded, and for the count of plates needed the current pouch drop rate is pretty rough. When I quit playing, VW was some of the endgame content, and from then through now I've probably done 8000+ VW encounters and I've never seen a pulse weapon. I'd be lying if I said that the experience didn't have me considering setting up a VW bot myself, but I'm too lazy and didn't want to risk my character.
I can't imagine they'll make it any more difficult to farm for HMPs, since from what I can tell from reading the other thread, the exploit in question was limited to pulse cell shenanigans.
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
scheduled emergency maintinence
It's not like botting HMP takes advantage of an exploit in the game mechanics, though. If it were possible to remove the ability to bot HMP it'd be possible to remove the ability to bot literally anything at all, which is impossible, because the bots in question just... automate the exact same set of actions a legitimate player would take.
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kireek said: »
fonewear said: »
Low drop rates is an artificial way of keeping you playing and keeping them from having to make new content.
Making new content is actually time consuming and a difficult process, plus if you keep making new content you have to make new gear and that leads to power creep and player burnout at the constant gear treadmill.
Games like this can't function with high drop rates.
False. Augment systems are a thing. You can have good items drop with a selection of augments. Exactly what games like destiny 2 does.
Easy to get top tier gear, hard to get top tier gear with top tier augs.
Se failed this with raisin augs because the base gear is meh, so you need the augs to cement them.
At least soa gear is more reliable to augment.
DirectX said: »
But it involved using a VW bot in the first place. Anyone reporting the bot has to first explain that it entailed botting HMP in the first place, which they might patch as a f**k you when patching the unintentional hacking.
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Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Augment systems are a thing
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DirectX said: »
I really don't understand why people go off on tangents like this.
How is it a tangent?
Tangent: a completely different line of thought or action.
He was posting in a context that made total sense after what you posted. It wasn't totally off topic.
DirectX said: »
I'm just saying they could see who has been botting hmp from logs and could ban them too, even if they didn't accidently exploit cells.
Do you know to what extent of information is viewable in their logs?
You suppose they can see exact positioning at exact ms of time stamps? legit question
In any case, you do realize that botting and playing the game doing something like voidwatch is going to look pretty identical in the logs, right? I wouldn't want to be in a position to pass out bans based on logs trying to determine who botted something or played something legit a month ago. "Yeah, you played too consistently from that round to the next... bot!"
24/7 activity would be definitively more obvious, of course.
Without real time interaction with a bot, they are not always so discernible.
DirectX said: »
They could change the packet which is used to pop, put a campaign on and then ban anyone that sent the old, now incorrect, packet all also if they wanted to. If I was them I'd do that.
That'd be pretty slick.
Torzak said: »
Do you know to what extent of information is viewable in their logs?
You suppose they can see exact positioning at exact ms of time stamps? legit question
In any case, you do realize that botting and playing the game doing something like voidwatch is going to look pretty identical in the logs, right? I wouldn't want to be in a position to pass out bans based on logs trying to determine who botted something or played something legit a month ago. "Yeah, you played too consistently from that round to the next... bot!"
You suppose they can see exact positioning at exact ms of time stamps? legit question
In any case, you do realize that botting and playing the game doing something like voidwatch is going to look pretty identical in the logs, right? I wouldn't want to be in a position to pass out bans based on logs trying to determine who botted something or played something legit a month ago. "Yeah, you played too consistently from that round to the next... bot!"
Pretty much everything is viewable, when user selects(targets) an object, when they interact and what menus, how frequently they're sending the request to the object, how fast the exchange between client(pc) and object are being interacted.
My limited experience in this field has taught me that one system is often very similar to the next system, the only differences are the software used to pull the information off of them and how it sorts garbage from actual data.
I absolutely guarantee you SE has never given enough of a ***about botting to even want to stop people from AFK farming heavy metal plates, haha. Also you underestimate the hilarious FFXI spaghetti code chain of failures it'd cause if they tried to change the way, like, basic client-server menu interaction worked. Although I do like the cut of your jib, that's the right kind of defensive programming if you really -did- care about catching people engaging in Shenanigans (and I've heard stories about EVE Online stymieing automation in similar ways, I think?)
Asura.Meliorah said: »
Pretty much everything is viewable, when user selects(targets) an object, when they interact and what menus,
I don't think so.
You can click through, tabbing across all the crabs in the Tree, and I doubt it sends something to SE that you targeted that mob or tabbed to that next mob. The client does a lot of the graphical pretty stuff for you, but unless there's an actual need to send a command to the server, it probably doesn't.
Another one would be like how many times you pushed up or down through a menu about which zone you wanted to exit out to from the mog house. I doubt the server knows that you pushed up 500x before you chose a place to exit to.
The client even has it's own built in timers for job abilities that largely limits what data the client is sending to the server on an attempt of that job ability.
Torzak said: »
In any case, you do realize that botting and playing the game doing something like voidwatch is going to look pretty identical in the logs, right? I wouldn't want to be in a position to pass out bans based on logs trying to determine who botted something or played something legit a month ago. "Yeah, you played too consistently from that round to the next... bot!"
While this is true, the amount of packets that are inaccurate or different in minor ways when compared to what retail generates in public addons is huge. You don't need a lot of bad packets to conclude a 3rd party application is being used.
Torzak said: »
You can click through, tabbing across all the crabs in the Tree, and I doubt it sends something to SE that you targeted that mob or tabbed to that next mob. The client does a lot of the graphical pretty stuff for you, but unless there's an actual need to send a command to the server, it probably doesn't.
(They probably aren't going to ban VW botters, but they absolutely could easily detect them.)
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Leave my exploit aloneeee
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What?
We already pay subs now youre also want me to physically stay in my chair beating lv20 quadavs over and over for a year instead of enjoying life???
We already pay subs now youre also want me to physically stay in my chair beating lv20 quadavs over and over for a year instead of enjoying life???
if no bots farmed spheres no shields would exist and they would lower requriments or increase drop rates, they probably never will as long as bots keep farming.
in retrospective they probably should have made the requirments for final stage a lot more ridiculous than they already are and increase the farm spots too.
for regular players they are out of reach anyway and once the cheaters spent the majority of their resources on them they should patch the quest and almost hand them for free.
would have pulled more gil out of the inflated economy and earned SE more money cause cheaters would run even more bots.
in retrospective they probably should have made the requirments for final stage a lot more ridiculous than they already are and increase the farm spots too.
for regular players they are out of reach anyway and once the cheaters spent the majority of their resources on them they should patch the quest and almost hand them for free.
would have pulled more gil out of the inflated economy and earned SE more money cause cheaters would run even more bots.
fonewear said: »
Most players are so bad on Asura that it is hard to tell the difference between a bot and a real player.
At least the bots yell scripted things and don't yell stupid ***a lot.
At least the bots yell scripted things and don't yell stupid ***a lot.
There was some dude last night with a god damn /u macro in Yoran unity, to say {Chant du Cygne} whenever he WSed... I'm pretty sure it was a real player, based on their inconsistent timing of that repeated spamming for a couple hours. I think I'd take the bot yells instead XD
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