Alexander HTBF

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Alexander HTBF
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By tyalangan 2020-03-19 19:03:03
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Bismarck.Firedemon said: »
Not sure what weapons you're using, but keep that in mind too. I was using Apoc for a few of them and finally realized it was the Added Effect: Blind that was causing it, so I switched back to Caladbolg and it was fine.
Karambit

I just timed out on Normal because of 4 Gospel of the Lost... Karambit MNK full malignance normal TP pieces. Went through the stats and nothing seemed to apply debuffs. I had Selh'teus with me this time but looked up his TP moves on BG and none apply a debuff. Here's a picture of the mess I have to deal with last 7 attempts. MNK is only one DDing and my WHM is only curing when I press a macro to cure me. I have my geo doing indi refresh only and my bard stands there doing nothing until I need a ballad from Divine. The most simple setup I can think to do and still get GotL

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By Odin.Llewelyn 2020-03-19 20:35:39
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Dunno. I just finished a set of D runs and they all went the same. Divine Judgment around 50% and again around 15%. Never saw Gospel or PD. Used MNK, BRD, WHM, Qultada, Kuyin, Brygid. Avoided Chi Blasting due to Penance merits and TH'd with a resisted Horde Lullaby on BRD.
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By 2020-03-19 20:38:00
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By tyalangan 2020-03-20 13:59:31
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An Update:

Just went two runs as BRD,GEO,WHM,MNK,THF kept THF,BRD,GEO at entrance and did NOTHING with these characters. The WHM and MNK only did the following:

WHM: Cure 3, erase
MNK: Auto attack, Victory Smite


Alexander never did GotL and used Divine Judgement once at around 5%.

The only difference between this run and my previous runs was:

GEO: Indi-regen on MNK with hate
BRD: Ballad 3,2 on WHM with hate
THF: Auto attack, TH proc in chat with proc animation


I am going to do three more runs adding one of the three variables above to the fight to see which one was causing GotL. I want to say it is TH proc from an actual THF as that's the only thing that makes sense as a "debuff". I have not seen anyone mention using THF lowman (avoiding GotL) so, as strange as it sounds, that could be the culprit. That or GEO indi is being seen as a debuff even if its not actually affecting Alex but he is in the bubble's area(maybe they borked the code on the last update?) because I believe I left my THF out on one of the previous attempts from yesterday but guess I'll find out.
 
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By 2020-03-20 15:36:51
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By tyalangan 2020-03-23 09:56:06
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Final Update:

Did 21 runs dividing testing into three sections:

MNK+WHM only: Auto-attack, Victory Smite, Cure, Erase. No GotL except for one run where I accidentally casted Dia so I'll throw that one out. 0/6 GotL

MNK+WHM+GEO+BRD: Above actions plus Marchx2,indihaste. GotL was caused by either geo indi or TH as I stated in prior posts. Although neither made sense indi made even less sense but I had to test anyway. No GotL. 0/7 GotL

MNK+WHM+GEO+BRD+THF: Above actions plus TH proc. First 3 runs I put in THF from the start of the battle all 3 runs had multiple GotL. Last 4 runs I put in THF at the end of the fight around 5%. Had GotL hit immediately as TH proc'd in the log twice. One run with a proc he died before he used another TP move. One run didn't get a proc in the log and no GotL. From my extremely limited testing I will conclude TH that procs in the log with an animation is considered a debuff to Alexander and will cause GotL. 5/7 GotL. 5/5 GotL when TH procd.

I will update this post instead of making a new one when I try TH with no TH gear from my THF poking it once at the beginning of the battle then disengaging for the remainder. That will tell me if it truly is the TH proc animation or TH itself. Considering multiple people have said they get no GotL when using TH4 I am assuming above that it is the animation.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-03-23 10:23:15
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I don't know what to tell you. Ive done this fight over 100 times solo on MNK (as recent as last week mercing for someone), and Alex seemlingly has the same behavior that was consistent with my experience earlier. Perhaps share a video of your experience/gear/trusts/buffs and I can see what is going on. I go the exact same formation every time, and he only ever gets off Perfect Defense (or full dispel) once each per fight. Never trigger GoTL at all in any of my runs

MNK (Verethragna). Don't use Chi Blast AT ALL(Penance)
Trusts: Yoran > Qultada > Joachim > Selt'heus > Ferreous (in this order, the latter 2 don't get TP, as Ferreous's Randgrith can proc GotL and I only want Selt'heus to use Rejuvenation when we are all in yellow)
Buffs (in this order): Start fight with Mantra/Boost ~2000TP, get AM3 VS, then use Impetus, Focus. 1-2min in, I use Footwork, then as Impetus wears off, I use Berserk/Aggressor/Warcry. I will use Hundred Fists ONLY AFTER he uses his full dispel move, since he has a trigger to this. He can also counter YOUR HF with PERFECT DEFENSE, so keep this in mind.
I repeat this rotation through the entire fight, which I clear in about 7min after trusts calling. I never use Berserk, Warcry, Impetus, Focus, and Aggressor together, always staggered, because he can detect your high buff count and respond accordingly by dispelling you.

They intentionally designed this fight to be done buffless, or with as little buffs as possible. I can record a video and show you exactly what I am doing and perhaps you can see if there is some gaps you are missing in why he's raging so much in your initial experiments.
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 Lakshmi.Avereith
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By Lakshmi.Avereith 2020-03-23 10:35:36
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I don't know about how the fight works on normal and above, but soloing as thf on E and getting every item drop, sylvie brygid ulmia qultada ygnas never gave me any trouble or dmg immunity. replaced qultada with monberaux when he came out because screw you qultada youre not worth it i hate you feeding tp and ws'ing. Just stood in front and evis forever

edit: and I have NEVER seen a TH proc do anything to immunity on easy, and again I did the fight until I got every drop
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By tyalangan 2020-03-23 11:03:05
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I don't know what to tell you. Ive done this fight over 100 times solo on MNK (as recent as last week mercing for someone), and Alex seemlingly has the same behavior that was consistent with my experience earlier. Perhaps share a video of your experience/gear/trusts/buffs and I can see what is going on. I go the exact same formation every time, and he only ever gets off Perfect Defense (or full dispel) once each per fight. Never trigger GoTL at all in any of my runs

MNK (Verethragna). Don't use Chi Blast AT ALL(Penance)
Trusts: Yoran > Qultada > Joachim > Selt'heus > Ferreous (in this order, the latter 2 don't get TP, as Ferreous's Randgrith can proc GotL and I only want Selt'heus to use Rejuvenation when we are all in yellow)
Buffs (in this order): Start fight with Mantra/Boost ~2000TP, get AM3 VS, then use Impetus, Focus. 1-2min in, I use Footwork, then as Impetus wears off, I use Berserk/Aggressor/Warcry. I will use Hundred Fists ONLY AFTER he uses his full dispel move, since he has a trigger to this. He can also counter YOUR HF with PERFECT DEFENSE, so keep this in mind.
I repeat this rotation through the entire fight, which I clear in about 7min after trusts calling. I never use Berserk, Warcry, Impetus, Focus, and Aggressor together, always staggered, because he can detect your high buff count and respond accordingly by dispelling you.

They intentionally designed this fight to be done buffless, or with as little buffs as possible. I can record a video and show you exactly what I am doing and perhaps you can see if there is some gaps you are missing in why he's raging so much in your initial experiments.

My experience lines up with Llewelyn. He used Perfect Defense on me around every 5th SC like BG states. He also uses Divine Judgment on queue below 15%. Llewelyn stated on D he does it at 50% and 15% so I assume normal is just at 15%. Everything lines up in that regard. It's GotL that threw me off. Maybe he doesn't do it on Easy or it takes more debuffs for him to use it.

I can make a video showcasing all the above if that would help visualize.
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By tyalangan 2020-03-23 13:07:16
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
They intentionally designed this fight to be done buffless
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
experience/gear/trusts/buffs and I can see what is going on. I go the exact same formation every time, and he only ever gets off Perfect Defense (or full dispel) once each

This is all with only buffs pro/shell as I stated a few posts back. Maybe you’re not skillchaining to avoid Perfect Defense? Then we’re all square and it seems figured out. As BG states SC causes PD, Divine Jusgement at 15%~ On normal which would equate to you seeing only one then TH proc animation causing a “debuff” making GotL which you wouldn’t see bc you don’t debuff or use thf.

I don’t know what was happening with my runs prior to the last 21 attempts but it may have been from the TH procs causing GotL then him retaliating with Divine Jusgment. I have no clue as my last 21 controlled attempts all had DJ under 15%. Maybe gotl causes him to rage or “resets” his timer as you may have said. Maybe I see him DJ at 15% ish because that’s how long it takes me to get to 15% but the GotL were causing massive slow downs causing him to do DJ more since I passed that time threshold.

Maybe you have to kill him fast enough but without buffs before his “timer” runs out or he’ll DJ more often in a raged state. That would explain my old runs with my procing GotL so much.
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By Fenrir.Kaldaek 2020-03-23 14:56:09
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I just did this on normal with no trusts. Just THF+WHM for cures. no buffs.

Autoengage and evis.

It still did GoTL and Divine Judgement
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 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2020-03-23 15:56:30
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Buffs have absolutely nothing to do with Alexander's behavior.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-03-23 15:56:39
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It could be TH then. I'm skillchaining on my runs, cuz Smite > Smite, but on Normal, he does not appear to PD every 5 SCs like he does on VD. Maybe it's closer to 10. Really weird though. I don't recall in any of my VD group runs with a THF where it raged due t proc, but maybe it did and we just thought it was something else.
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By Fenrir.Kaldaek 2020-03-23 17:00:22
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Asura.Geriond said: »
Buffs have absolutely nothing to do with Alexander's behavior.

Yea i'm trying to rule out whats triggering it.

I thought it was triggered by debuff on him, even from certain WS or ability.

Thoughts?
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By Carbuncle.Tyleron 2020-03-24 16:19:11
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For Smn what is likely the best BP here? Anyone had experience with taking in SMN on this fight?
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By Carbuncle.Papesse 2020-03-24 17:18:54
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Night Terror but it's not really a good job for this fight... normal is soloable but takes over 20 min and requires SMN's melee damage. Ayame trust can speed up things a bit with Tachi: Gekko -> Retribution -> Night Terror MB.
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By Dritero 2020-04-11 21:34:53
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Can anyone recommend a good set of trusts to use for N difficulty on THF? Used Ulmia, Qultada, Selhteus, Sylvie, Karuna but wasn't able to damage him so may have been due to sc or debuff. Is Ygnas ok to use for this fight?

Thanks!
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By Bismarck.Firedemon 2020-04-11 21:57:03
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Stand in front and you'll do damage. A few posts above, Avereith had no issues from Ygnas on E.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-04-11 21:59:12
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I don't have him or Monberaux, but Ygnas is basically going to be your only source of magical haste spell from a trust that won't debuff, unless you use Ferreous and hope his Randgrith additional effect doesn't proc. That alone makes Ygnas extremely valuable for this. His is also Haste2, which is great in a buff starved fight. On thief though, you're pretty much locked into Mandalic Stab or Evisceration, and you can't use Sneak attack since he blocks damage from behind.

Also, unless I'm mistaken, you can't use Sylvie either because she will entrust frailty, which will immediately proc GoTL. Thief is going to have a harder time soloing this just because it would have to rely on naked buffs, and without stacked WS, it's going to be really weak compared to any other heavy DD.
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By Bismarck.Firedemon 2020-04-11 22:24:51
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Not sure how Ygnas' Deific Gambol will play in with the Terror if it lands, or Sacred Caper if it actually is DoT.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-04-11 23:35:18
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My guess is Alexander is immune to terror, so that might not be issue. Nearly every major boss is. Could test it with BLU to be sure. If sacred caper is dot, then that's a no. But I've heard of people using Ygnas for the fight without any issues
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By Dritero 2020-04-13 18:58:53
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Thanks for the tips guys. Am now able to consistently solo N on THF using Ulmia, Qultada, Selhteus, Ygnas, Karahna. I did find I had to take off TH after initial tag or he just spams his perfect defense move / healing move. Cheers!
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By Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget 2020-08-05 11:46:53
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Looking to start spamming this next for drops since I'm MOSTLY done with Lilith. (I only need the feet, so i usually don't run Lilith unless another friend or LS member is there to get the other drops).

I was wondering what the highest level a THF can solo this is? So far I've done up to Easy a bunch of times but still haven't seen a single drop.

Is Normal doable solo, is it even worth it drop rate wise? Or is ti the same crappy drop rate?
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2020-08-05 11:53:59
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Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget said: »
Looking to start spamming this next for drops since I'm MOSTLY done with Lilith. (I only need the feet, so i usually don't run Lilith unless another friend or LS member is there to get the other drops).

I was wondering what the highest level a THF can solo this is? So far I've done up to Easy a bunch of times but still haven't seen a single drop.

Is Normal doable solo, is it even worth it drop rate wise? Or is ti the same crappy drop rate?

... well, the post RIGHT before yours is a thank you for help from another thief who is not reliably solo'ing normal. and presumably the tips for how to do so should precede it by not very far.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget
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By Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget 2020-08-05 12:28:07
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Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget said: »
Looking to start spamming this next for drops since I'm MOSTLY done with Lilith. (I only need the feet, so i usually don't run Lilith unless another friend or LS member is there to get the other drops).

I was wondering what the highest level a THF can solo this is? So far I've done up to Easy a bunch of times but still haven't seen a single drop.

Is Normal doable solo, is it even worth it drop rate wise? Or is ti the same crappy drop rate?

... well, the post RIGHT before yours is a thank you for help from another thief who is not reliably solo'ing normal. and presumably the tips for how to do so should precede it by not very far.

Tried the strat up top, didn't know what sub he used, so I just went /war.

Also I don't have Ygnas, so I substituted Yoran-Oran. But I won.
Still no drop, but hey, it's a win!
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 Shiva.Anoq
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By Shiva.Anoq 2021-02-07 12:26:52
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Anyone figured out if TH proc on THF causes GotL? I been running N solo swapping between MNK, WAR, and THF and seem to get GotL pretty frequently on THF compared to the other 2. Down to only needing the body, but the extra time it takes to finish on THF makes me think it's not worth it for the extra TH.
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-02-07 13:42:12
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Shiva.Anoq said: »
Anyone figured out if TH proc on THF causes GotL? I been running N solo swapping between MNK, WAR, and THF and seem to get GotL pretty frequently on THF compared to the other 2. Down to only needing the body, but the extra time it takes to finish on THF makes me think it's not worth it for the extra TH.
I think there's pretty much 0 chance that TH procs count as a debuff that can trigger gospel.

However... Are you using Feint to try to boost TH? cause the original and primary effect of feint was the eva- debuff. And that would definitely set him off.
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By SimonSes 2021-02-07 14:02:23
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Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Shiva.Anoq said: »
Anyone figured out if TH proc on THF causes GotL? I been running N solo swapping between MNK, WAR, and THF and seem to get GotL pretty frequently on THF compared to the other 2. Down to only needing the body, but the extra time it takes to finish on THF makes me think it's not worth it for the extra TH.
I think there's pretty much 0 chance that TH procs count as a debuff that can trigger gospel.

However... Are you using Feint to try to boost TH? cause the original and primary effect of feint was the eva- debuff. And that would definitely set him off.

That or Rudra's gravity
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2021-02-07 14:28:23
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It has been a couple of months since I tried, but I remember getting hit with the same thing on THF. And no, not using Feint or Rudras, just melee swings and Evisceration.
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By Valefor.Damnit 2021-02-07 16:15:38
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I have been spamming this HTBF for the last few days, a couple things I have noticed

TH does not force Gotl.
Feint, Bully, Steps and Gravity From Rudras does.

I used the trusts suggested on the Wiki (Quiltada, Arciela II, Ulmia, Selh'teus, Ygnas) and would still force Gotl randomly and couldn't figure it out until i looked deeper. Arciela was the issue, she would force Gotl with Sight Unseen and Increasing Dread.

after that i swapped her out with Monberaux and haven't had an issue since.

fighting on Normal takes about 15 Min on THF, simply Spamming Mandalic Stab (Evisceration works also) at 2K TP and using trick attack when its up on one of my trusts to build TH.

DT set is recommended for the fight to make it easier on the Trusts MP since you wont have the Arcelia/Ygnas refresh synergy
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