R15 Gandiva

Any R15 Gandiva owners out there?
Was wondering how much of a boost to expect from it pre/post augment.

..oohhhhh I dunno about 10%? ;) (augment value)

Mine's only R5 at the moment...I love my Gandiva, always have, but its just such a hate machine I rarely find times when I feel safe using it. Nonetheless, it will be on my list to take up to R10 at least, if not finish it, soon.

I know of a few on Leviathan that have R15'ed it and love it, and would like to know more about situations where you find it best suited.

Thank you for responding :)
Our LS is almost done with the Elvaan Mask, so this Sunday I will be dropping in the augments. I collected enough to hit R10, kind of hesitant to see if I should use it on Annihilator or Fomalhaut first then think about Gandiva.

It is a hate machine! You will get yelled at, but the curiosity lol....

I'll add this since you mentioned your other pewpew options:

Fomalhaut will benefit two jobs (assuming you have Corsair leveled/geared), so it has that going for it. The change from afterglowed to R15 isn't as great as other options, but still there is some boost.

Annihilator without question gains the most from afterglowed version to R15, gaining a whopping 20% boost to Coronach and a lovely +5 STP. Mine's currently R13, and it is hands down my new favorite weapon on Ranger. Its definitely the worst RMEA option for magical weaponskills, but for straight physical damage...my oh my its wonderful, and you can go to town without ever making the target even give you a 2nd glance.

If I were deciding between Gandiva, Fomalhaut, and Annihilator for a Ranger-only weapon to Augment...it would definitely be Annihilator.

Based on my research, it's far an away the highest sustained physical damage RNG can do. Your damage isn't necessarily boosted by the Jishnu's boost as much as the base damage, str, and dex. Your bread and butter is double/triple shot crits, Barrage, etc. I've been trying to recruit Gandiva rangers to verify all that, but mine is personally not close to being a viable test subject.

The downside as mentioned above is that enmity generated from physical attacks is much harder to control. It shouldn't be that big of a deal if you have a good RUN/DRK.

But why, it's the lowest throughput option? Gandiva and Fomalhaut are both higher output weapons by all accounts.

Coronach will never be as good as Last Stand just as a weaponskill. Annihilator and Fomalhaut both require high WS frequency and damage to maintain high DPS.

Because a dead DPS is zero DPS

I have to agree. More hate control with steady DPS (while staying alive) will win. Pew Pew away!

EDIT: But like you said Shozo, if a tank can hold hate while the Gandiva RNGs go to town, more power to you!

Had they just done the right thing with Camouflage when they "adjusted" RNG, this wouldn't even be a problem with regards to hate generation.

Current Set: Missing Regal Ring and the Chrono Arrow (is at works.)

https://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/367932


Any other good substitutes instead of Regal Ring?

I like using annihilator myself personally sometimes even when there’s another ranged DD using fomalhaut. The nice thing about damn near completely hate free damage, is that coronch being dark/frag allows it to light chain off the last stands and instead of having just a last stand->last stand single light, you’re able to get ls->coro->ls double light(rads if am2) which is more overall party dps most of the time. Also love using anni when fighting fu because with good attack buffs I was popping off 50k ish coronach’s every couple seconds and fu literally never even looked my way, melted him with no real ping ponging issues. Also when I did black and white, there was just no way we would have been able to win if I didn’t have anni, good tank or not.

When discussing enmity and Gandiva, it's definitely worth noting that the ability to use Decoy Shot well (including getting tanks to cooperate) is comparatively more important for Gandiva than any other RNG weapon and can go a long way toward helping reduce risk. Both RNG Empys do a LOT of white damage with AM3, especially paired with Double Shot and ranged crits, and all of that damage is Decoy-able. It doesn't help on JR spam, so that still presents a significant risk for Gandiva. But honestly, it's at least better than Fomal/Last Stand spam (a true death wish) if you're able to Decoy.

FWIW, Armageddon is even easier to manage hate than Gandiva - in that respect, solidly 2nd place for RNG behind Anni, IMHO. That's thanks to TF/WF being naturally lower enmity and frequently used, and still getting the additional bump to Decoy effectiveness through AM3/crits (with even more crits than Gandiva thanks to AGI stat on Armageddon).

I'd like to clearly define the differences when talking about optimal gear pieces and sets.

Paradigm 1: Theoretical Maximum
This is the paradigm I use when discussing gear choices about 85% of the time. In this scenario you assume your tanks are good, your whms aren't bad, you have full buffs, etc.

Paradigm 2: Reasonable Expectation
This is the paradigm in which you should expect that the rest of your group is reliable and hasn't made very poor gear choices so they're at or close to BiS. This gives wiggle room for that "close to BiS" and human error. The other 15% of the time, I live here in discussion.

Paradigm 3: The Bad Zone
Unbalanced groups, no support, tanks that can't hold hate off strong melee DD, whms that are using CurePlease or Healbot 100% of the time, etc. I am literally never referring to this situation. It's your raid/linkshell leader's responsibility to make sure this is NEVER the case. If you have to deal with this, move on to another linkshell because you shouldn't have to gear around people being bad.

Given that information, here's the deal with enmity:

A RUN/DRK can easily hold hate all the way to hate cap as long as the following thing's don't occur.

• DD doesn't burst immediately. Give the man a second to get at least 2-3 JAs and flash/stun/foil off ffs.

• Your Tank / DD are not communicating - nod to the above, but yeah, your tank is supposed to say "Yo, hates loose, chill for a min"

After hitting hate cap you usually just ride out a DT set and don't be bad. (which takes a while dudes... Like I hear people claim hate cap all the time when they're just being a bad tank and not generating enmity fast enough.)

I've played with a lot of tanks, they come in all varieties. I will say that tanking is challenging enough that it's very hard to find ones that can hold hate like I'm talking about. I've met maybe 4 that can hold hate like I expect? The rest are mediocre or don't understand how to maximize enmity properly.

You should never theory craft expecting to have bad tanks or bad heals etc. That's all I'm saying. So R15ing Annihilator "because hate is bad" I don't believe to be a good reason. Only place I'd ever expect to see it is Black & White.

Thank you for this.
I was forced to /DRG to High Jump hate if I use the bow in Omen bosses.

Generally agreed with you, and I'll add that communication is important. Talk to your tanks, and the good ones will try to work with you.

This mainly comes up in the context of Decoy Shot. If you aren't fighting something with really obnoxious knockback (say, Dynamis Bastok NMs), there is little reason for your tank not to be able to put their back to you to allow for Decoy. Helps them hold hate over everyone, helps the RNG not pull hate. Might be something that a tank who frequently plays with you will know right away, but I find that with randoms they often need a reminder that Decoy even exists.

On that note, assuming it's more than a 3min fight, it's also worth coordinating with other RNGs to stagger Decoy and give the tank a near constant source of additional enmity.

I know Decoy isn't foolproof, but it's a pretty potent tool that helps. And it infuriates me to see people just blasting away and not even using the JA, then blaming stuff like the weapon ("oh, guess RNG needs Anni as the only way to not get everyone killed" No, not really... you weren't even attempting to use a easily available tool that would have helped.)

I also get it that Decoy tends gets lost in the shuffle when it's a mixed party with melees and rangers, and being realistic there's only so much you can do about that. But there is really no excuse if you're using a ranged-focused setup, which is primarily when I end up using RNG anyway.

I tank dyna wave2 bosses against an r15 Gandiva rng. It's really not as bad as people make it out to be. Pew pew away

when ws damage is garbage, it kind of reduces the hate you need to deal with

gandiva on something where it can do full damage will easily cap VE if decoy is down, and cap CE as well if the fight goes on very long

Your JR set looks good, You can try a couple things out that I found to be a bit better. Mine is R7 so I can't speak for change yet on r0 to r15.

I suggest try swapping Darraigner's Brais for Jokushu Haidate they offer a solid stack of DEX and the Oshoshi +1 Legs for Arcadian socks +3 again a boost in DEX and add about ~50 RATT. As for Regal hmm.. not sure which you will replace but your giving up alot of Crit for 10dex/20Ratt (much which you'll see returned from above 2 pieces).

I think looking deep in the discussions over the years I found what works best for me is testing this out as much as you can. JR & esp. AM3 for Gandiva is to me a very interesting set to mess around with and I do not think I'll ever be able to settle on one set myself.

Lastly, using Gandiva in a group can be interesting... to note every group has a altered play style, varied knowledge of players, ability to work w/each other, etc.. I never find there is a wrong weapon to shoot from, it's all circumstanced based and well that's the most awesome part of owning entire artillery!

Enjoy! Can't wait to hear some results that worked for you!

I didn't imagine it would be. Even with the big boi crits, I can't imagine it's much worse than tanking off back to back 60~80k Torcleavers (which isn't super fun...)

His WS damage wouldn't be garbage on Wave 2 boss unless missing a full array of buffs. This only applies for jobs that are attack starved like RUN, DRG, etc. RNG is not Rattk starved.

Even if you cap enmity, RNG (and every other job) has access to great DT, MEVA, and "turtle" swaps. So either take the 2min weakness to dump your enmity (which is not really a bad proposition on RNG), utilize decoy shot, or do any number of other things that help control enmity.

I'll repeat my previous sentiment, don't plan your gear around a bad performance by anyone (yourself included).

he's talking about a run i was at, in bastok, where the same ws were used repeatedly and jishnus damage was garbage, but ok pretend you know more about it

the truth is that 'tanking' against any high output DPS is more about the DPS being able to stay below enmity cap than anything the RUN can do, despite your incessant need to trumpet about how great you are

on that note, i'm not saying gandiva is bad or you won't find use for it, it's absolutely the best ranged weapon for dyna w2s, and there are many many situations where you can deal with capped hate or kill the monster before it's an issue, but it is a limitation and don't let any ***-waving tank pretend they can hold hate off of it

the numbers don't work that way, if you are capable of capping CE/VE you will move the mob off of any tank, and by being at range, you endanger more than yourself doing so

Why does every engagement with you have to be a train wreck? Nowhere was it said that "Oh I know what that run was, I was there, WS was garbage it was only XXXX". The OP didn't say his damage was garbage and you didn't state the details around your comment. So all I can assume is "best scenario"

I'm not "trumpeting how great I am". Please stop bringing your personal contempt for me and my play style into threads to derail good conversation.

The conversation wasn't about "If you cap CE/VE, will you take hate", it never was. It was "If you have a tank which is generating enmity to the best ability, how fast will you pull hate" and the answer is, not quickly, not given sufficient time to generate enough CE while maximizing VE.

You both have egos the size of trains speeding in opposite directions on the same track.

I'm not so concerned about pulling hate for my sake- I've got multiple tiers of -DT sets to compensate- I'm worried about the support staff around me that WAS out of range of AoEs before I moved it. It's about them squishies around me.

This. I can't even count the number of times "overzealous ranger" got the whole god damn party/alliance wiped/delayed. Now, to be clear, it's not only "overzealous ranger's" fault. it's also theirs for being stupid enough to not have DT/oshit sets. But the fact is that this is a real scenario.

"We don't use anni because we want to. We use it for safety, it's the entire reason we're on ranger in the first place instead of melee"

Berserk JR barrage JR "lol I died aren't I cute! pay attention to me!"

Exactly this ^
A good tank should be able to keep hate regardless of the damage. Give me Rank 15 Gandiva any day.

I use r15 anni over r15 fomal and the damage comparison between the 2 isnt far off when adding in white damage relic procs and not relying on level 4 skillchains.

also, are there really rangers who dont full time dt in idle?? I mean your shooting at ranged and should only come out of dt gear for preshot, midshot and ws sets. I do agree with Celebrindal on that note of pulling hate back to where the mages are (if your standing with them to shoot) which puts anni further up in the ranks imo.

I know your comment was meant in jest, just using it for those who are actually thinking this. I want to present a scenario that is all too common in terms of why Rangers aren't welcome in mixed strats often, and why our reputation is what it is.

Alliance pops XYZ Notorious Monster.

RUN starts building hate on the target as GEOs drop bubbles around the DDs and NM. Possibly you are lucky enough that there are only two Rangers in your party as the sole DDs, so you get bubbles on the backline with you guys(between 20' and 21', allowing you to be out of AoEs from the NM but able to WS), boosting your damage,etc.

During this buildup time, the Rangers blissfully build TP to 3k in order to proc their AMs, let's use Gandiva as this thread is related to that. The piddly arrows do next to nothing without AM or double shot up, so the Rangers feel like they're quite safe. Other DDs are starting to charge into the battle now that bubbles are up and the RUN has done a few initial Hate-grabbing moves.

Then the onslaught begins. Melee DDs start thwackin' away, popping JAs. RUN is now fully into their hate spell/ja cycle, and Rangers, sitting on 3k TP, unleash hell. 3k Jishnu's Radiance, Double Shot with Relic Body+3, and AM+double/triple shot procs stacked with a high crit rate/crit damage set.

They're not hate capped, no one is this early. But the spike from subsequent Weapon Skills and doubleshot procs that rival the Weapon Skill damage (if not exceed it) start to add up. The RUN simply doesn't have enough moves fast enough as the NM drifts towards that backline of 20-21 yalms...that backline of Bards, White Mages, Geomancers....and our large-testicled Rangers. NM fires a stat-wrecking AoE of petrify, silence, and curse that now hits everyone in the alliance.

Had the culprit of pulling hate been next to the tank (a traditional DD), our NM wouldn't move out of that Vex bubble, reducing chances that everyone gets killed by those stats. Not to mention our healing staff is out of range of it to boot. But because our over-zealous Rangers took matters (and parses) into their own hands, they've crippled our entire support staff while the NM then beats on anyone it wants without any healing power while our support staff fires off temp items to deal with the status ailments- if they aren't waiting out a petrify.

This is why group leaders are hesitant to let Rangers come to mixed setups. Or, in some cases, avoid Ranger strats period. We gotta do better, and often better means sacrificing some DPS for stability. Yes, dear lord I *** LOVE the potential of an R15 Gandiva. I just know its not the smartest move more often than not. Comeatmebro listed a wonderful use for this weapon, and it requires excellent coordination between Ranger and Tank to maximize it while not hampering your Alliance.