Best Sword Combinations Now?

That’s my thoughts on the Tp bonus weapon. I suspect you’d wiff enough on it to not be as useful. So if the tp bonus weapon is stupid to use, so would be the 2-4x hit weapon.

If they actually work, they should both work.

The tp bonus applies to the weaponskill which is based off the mainhand weapon, so it has viability. the da/qa will proc with and use the weapon that has that stat, making it piss poor as a tp gain tool since that weapon itself will need ridiculous amounts of acc to get a decent hit rate.

Thibron also has piss poor Accuracy under normal circumstances, hence why people wear tons of high Accuracy gear to compensate. Nobody using Thibron goes into fights intending to whiff all their off-hand attacks just to do a stronger WS once in a blue moon.

That said, non-ilevel OAX weapons aren't worth it because you're basically just trading in MA gear that applies to both hands for Accuracy gear + OAX that's only on your offhand (and has lower priority than any of your MA procs from JT, SJ etc.). The non-ilevel OAX offhand hit will also very likely miss during most WSs.

Thibron only gets a pass because it adds like 8k~ damage to WSs like Savage Blade and BLU or RDM can compensate for worse TP gear with AM3, Temper II or Samurai Roll. If there's any non-ilevel OAX weapon worth using it would probably be Kraken Club on jobs that can use it--and only on targets you can hit for more than 0s.

Acc gear for Thibron isnt that hardcore as you think. The main difference is herc head with dex,acc,ta and adhemar legs. Rest is very similar.

Dampening Tam is a great head acc swap as well.

Tizona/Tib is pretty broken for low to mid content.

If you use actual full Accuracy gear then Naeglig/Thibron is fully viable even in Wave 2-3 on regular mobs, not just zerging. I've parsed relatively close to a Shining One WAR and BiS COR with it on RDM while also keeping up a Haste/Refresh rotation for my party/alliance.

Yeah Tam is good too. I was doing Dynamis wave 3 yesterday and I cant really imagine more DPS with anything else than Tizona/Thibron. 35k Expiacions with spikes over 40k. I forgot to check accuracy, but I was getting 1000TP+ after WS with avg 2 rounds with big overflow often, so it was at least in 90% range, so I wouldn't limit this combo to only low to mid endgame.

That's not how it works
Ignoring the ACC issues for a moment

TP bonus is a very almost unique factor.
that means as we get stronger an stronger with more DA TA STR WSmodifier etc etc. thibron's bonus becomes more and more attractive

You multihit weapon bonus becomes more and more weak as we get more TA and DA since those procs before and negates the multihit weapon taking effect.

It's about the group as a whole. We're talking about off hand being ~240 or more accuracy behind main hand, meaning in order to cap off hand accuracy your over buffing main hand acc by 240. If it's just the BLU then it might not be a big deal, but if in the course of doing this your nerfing the COR, WAR, SAM, DRK and every other DD by depriving them of buffs slots then it's a net loss for the team. We saw this during some of our events when one of our BLU's tried to demand we change buffs to support their TP Bonus off hand, we told them absolutely not and that we would be going with the buffs that every other member was already optimized for. Predictably they sucked hard core DPS wise and eventually changed their off hand.

You don't increase your groups teams capability by kicking everyone else in the nuts.

Yeah but that's just stupid player behind BLU. BLU can easily get around 1100-1120 accuracy with Thibron without going crazy about acc. Now if you go for full accuracy setup that still has good offensive TP stats (+58 store tp, 8%TA and 11DW in gear) you can get around 1200 accuracy. All before food or other buffs. That won't require any additional accuracy buffs that are not normally used for other DDs in almost any scenario.

EDIT: That was for Tizona main, not Naegling. that's actually another big advantage of Tizona over Naegling, because full accuracy build (gear + traits) has +88 store TP, +13%TA so not much MA but a lot of store TP, so it favors Tizona AM3 a LOT.

Again, I've been doing Wave 2-3 on RDM no problem with just the standard buffs (Honor, Mad, double Minuet, Sam/Chaos, bubbles) and only ever used Distract III on Wave 2-3 THFs, NMs and Volte commanders. And I've consistently parsed close to the top DDs without issue.

It's entirely feasible to use Thibron in any content without making the group adapt to you. Plus BLU has an easier time to gear for it than RDM does, Distract III aside.

Or pt do it wrong. Cor almost always benefit from double mad wayyyyy more than 1 mad 1 min. Acc buff or bust.

Depends on event really. If COR is doing 99999 with Leaden then sure buff COR over other DDs, but if all other DDs is doing more DPS then COR because its melee setup, then COR should buff his accuracy a little instead of expecting 2x acc buff. That being said many people forget that some of the best WSs in game has optimal WS set, that doesn't really have high accuracy for non-first hits.

I might be wrong, but I don't think Upheaval, Insurgency or Impulse Drive has high accuracy for non-first hit, so it might be beneficial for them to also get 2nd madrigal over minuet. Not sure tho. No time to check now.

SAM also has fairly low accuracy in its lowest TP sets, so they can potentially adapt as well.

In situations that other DD will be doing more dps, such as ambuscade, there won't be 2nd none blu DD in pt to begin with. And attack will be capped too.

Say if you are doing ambu with tank blu cor brd geo whm, how would double mad not benefit every DD(cor+blu) since both needs acc and attack is capped.

Attack song is overrated in the community Id say.

I don't necessarily disagree with the double Madrigal part, but I don't think you'd always cap Attack in Ambuscade with LS+Dia 2, Tenebral/Armor Break, Idris Fury/BoG/EA Frailty, Honor+1 Minuet and Chaos Roll without using 1hrs. I've often been in these buff scenarios and Bolster always made a noticeable difference. Especially now with Physical Damage Limit+ it's harder to cap than before.

Whether a second Minuet makes a bigger difference than a second Madrigal is questionable, however. At the very least, the Madrigal would let those DDs who already have capped Acc eat Attack food, while those DDs who absolutely need all the Acc they can get can continue using Sushi.

https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/29127/random-question-thread-ffxi-related/589/#3428839

According to testing here, you can effectively achieve 100% defense down with Dia III and Bolster'd Frailty.

Testing needs to be done whether or not def down caps at some value. 100% def down seems like you don't really need any att buffs at all theoretically, which doesnt seem right.

I expect Def Down to cap at 87.5%, otherwise capping pdif would be an absolute breeze.

It sounds about right, as an 87.5% defense down on a monster with about 2100 defense would require you to be sitting at around 1300 att to hit a pdif of 5.0. Specifically, 1315 attack.

Which seems, eyeballing, the realm people feel it peeks around on most end game content. So I wouldn't be surprised if it works like that.

In which case, if receiving Indi-Fury, and you don't have any other % att buffs, you only need like 813 attack to hit 1315 after Fury.

Thats... not hard to hit at all with Food and Honor March.

I actually assert the *truly* top end DPS would be:

Tank: Run due to its super high DA rate and better DPS
DDs: Use Attack food, and be warriors or other high DA jobs
Geo: Fury+Bolstered Frailty
Mage: Dia II or Dia III
Corsair: Samurais roll + Allies' Roll
Bard: H.March + March + Mad + Mad

You should organize so the 2 primary DD's skillchains Light or Darkness off each other without sacrificing kill speed. Just spam your WSes, but Skillchains should be happening often.

Parsing should reveal that Skillchain damage makes up such a large portion of your party's DPS, I would not be surprised at all if a +8 XI Allies roll's +38% Skillchain damage contributed to the optimal DPS boost and clear speed.

You should already have att/acc capped from the given buffs as far as I am aware, due to how absolutely insane Dia+Frailty are together based on what we found in the link at the top, so Chaos roll probably doesn't give much. And Fighter's Roll doesn't give much either since Rune Fencers and Warriors already can cap, or nearly cap, DA, and DA gives diminishing returns.

Since pretty much all sources of DPS individually give diminishing returns, I would expect the optimal cor roll to be the one targetting a DPS boosting stat that few people have much of.

Skillchain bonus is often lacking on players WS sets, since they dont rely on skillchains when solo or in PUGs.

Depending on what the fight is, it's not that easy. Remember GEO is nerfed on ***that matters.

And everything you said falls apart right here.

See SC's have this annoying problem of a window, meaning after you WS there can't be any other WS for several seconds (3~4) before this window opens. If another WS goes off then the window is reset and no SC occurs. A super buffed 2H DD will WS every 3~4 seconds, and now the problem should become obvious with 2 DD's and a COR or any combination of RUN / DD / DD COR / ect. In Dyna when our puller brings in the Red eye NM's, only one DD engages it and kills it with solo SC's. If more then one DD gets on it then SC damage goes to ***. In a melee DPS rush SC's are completely useless, thus buffing SC's would be like buffing evasion, hell buffing evasion might even be more useful.

SC damage is primarily a thing when there is one DD doing the coordination with maybe a COR and nobody else. The COR will be wasting DPS potential but its usually a net positive. The moment you introduce anything else it all turns into everyone overwriting each other. We learned our lesson, Allies Roll is only used for specific fights like a SAM or WAR (DRG and DRK can do it too) doing a solo 4~6 step SC. Otherwise you usually want Fighters if your attack capped. Bolstered Idris Frailty is only available for short bursts, normally you just use Idris Frailty + Dia II + LS and expect that the rest will be covered with ~maybe~ one attack buff.

Of course that doesn't work in a place like Dynamis D where Idris Frailty is nerfed to be weaker then Dia II. A handful of ambuscades and I think like one or two other fights are like that too.

Double madrigal is a waste of a song slot unless your doing rotating BRD's, if an attack song isn't needed then better to go with a resist song to lower the effect of DPS leeches like Stun, Amnesia, Paralyze, Petrify, Slow, Charm or even a Minne if it's a stupid high attack NM (Hi Dyna D Wave 3). And if your doing a fight that has absolutely none of those, then why the *** are we even talking about solo content.

Not really understand what are you talking about here. Most DD jobs has above 1315 attack w/o any buffs/food. Why would you need attack food and fury. Not to mention none of them has 5.0 pdif cap. DRK has highest and it's 4.675 with 2h weapons, but DRK has way higher base attack anyway.

Also you are talking about Bolster frailty. If you bolster frailty, you are talking about zerg and if you zerg, everyone can use 1hrs and then what's best is based on what's actually needed, because many combo can meet dps check then but sometimes survivability is more important for some scenario, but generally none will beat MS/Warcry WAR for zerg, unless you need MEVA, then probably SAM is the best.

But outside of Bolster and with geomancy reduction like in Dynamis D everything changes and things like box steps and def down WSs and spells are way more valuable, same as chaos roll and attack songs.

General statements like that has generally no sense. It's your WAR pov and nothing else. If there is SAM and COR in party and their absolutely best TP sets (and WS set on SAM too) have very low accuracy, then 2x madrigal might be superior for them. there are many combos that might benefit from 2x madrigal over other songs, but I agree that there are many that will benefit from something else over 2nd madrigal. It completely depends on party composition and what you are fighting, like most things in FFXI.

This. My best ws set has 61 wsd but sitting at sub 1000 acc. Savage is 2 hit so Im not getting full tp return with 100 acc bonus either. If I add 85 more acc to compensate the lose of madrigal Id have to swap out 30% wsd for acc and +2 neck for an absolutely shitty ws set, since my wsd+10% body, wsd 10% legs and epa ring has no accuracy on it, nor wsd earring....nor neck....

And that's before counting the stp ma lose in tp set too.

Even if my attack is slightly undercapped in ambu I just don't see how a bit more attack to help capping it outweight 30% wsd lose in ws set. AND less MA and stp too.

In an era that vast majority of good wsd piece came from DM, a top tier wsd set with DM augments simply won't have good acc on it, more so if you are on a job with B- rank skill and AF+3 being a ranged set with no melee stats.

In dyna it's even more obvious, I use wf/ae/leaden in entire wave 3 so attack song is completely useless.

If people want attack song, just pianissimo it. But as a cor I'm taking double madrigal to every ilv 139+ content that I do and I wish people who obviously dont play the job seriously stop commenting on optimal buffs for these jobs. It hurts to see cors joining a pt with 1 mad 1 min and parse half of real DD because the buffs isn't optimize for them, and they don't even know their buffs are wrong. Then when I proceed to explain why cor needs double madrigal people just repeatly post "double madrigal is bad" over and over.

*** your right, this always slips my mind.

Damnit.

I need to add support for this to the dps spreadsheets dont I.

Everytime I think Im starting to have my bases covered I hit another contrived thing that messes with the logic.

Sigh.

But yeah this does seem very relevant to end game so a 'nerfed geo' button on the spreadsheet seems critical to include.

Ugh.

I know how it works. The reason why the 2-4x hit would be useful is so I can do WS more often.

Evidently not.

Equipping enough accuracy to make level 99 OAX weapons land hits would entirely defeat their purpose. That is not the case with TP Bonus weapons as has been explained. Especially when you can main-hand a Mythic and get a high multi-hit rate anyway. OAX weapons aren’t even that great anymore with all the multi-hit we can get with gear now which is why a lot of mythics had started following off before R levels came out.

I am not really following.
So are you admitting there is a significant accuracy loss from equipping non ilvl weapons or not?

I don’t care about the Tp bonus weapon if it’s going to wiff a bunch. Edit: if it’s not going to wiff a bunch, then the OAX weapons aren’t going to wiff a bunch.

There's a trade off to consider. With TPBonus sword, you lose out on stats for accuracy, but the trade off is greatly increased WS damage.

Oa2-4 loses out on stats for accuracy, resulting in minor gains in WS frequency, due to already high multi attack rates. And very likely doesn't outweigh the damage loss from such a weak base damage weapon.

I mean it's like this

Thibron TP Bonus assuming
99% Acc Tizona and 70% acc Thibron
100 TP per swing

Tizona swing Thibron swing
1 x 0.4 = 0.4 1 x 1 = 1
2 x 0.4 = 0.8
3 x 0.2 = 0.6
Total 1.8 (64%) + 1.0 (36%) = 2.8 (100%)
x Accuracy 0.99 0.7
Acc. Adj. Swg 1.78(72%) + 0.7( 28%) = 2.48 (100%)

So this is 2.48 landed swings per round or a bit over 4 rounds for 1000 TP

For Khadga assuming
99% Acc Tizona and 70% acc Khadga
100 TP per swing
Equal distribution of Khadga to swing 1 - 4

Tizona swing Khadga swing
1 x 0.4 = 0.4 1 x 0.25 = 0.25
2 x 0.4 = 0.8 2 x 0.25 = 0.50
3 x 0.2 = 0.6 3 x 0.25 = 0.75
4 x 0.25 = 1
Total 1.8 (42%) + 2.5 (58%) = 4.3 (100%)
x Accuracy 0.99 0.7
Acc. Adj. Swg 1.78(59%) + 1.75 (42%) = 3.53 (100%)

So this is 3.53 landed swings per round or a bit over 2.8 rounds for 1000 tp

4 / 2.8 = 1.42 so about 42% lower WS frequency for Thibron

Now with TP Bonus Thibron, 1000 TP = FTP of 9.4
While Khadga 2 - 4, 1000 TP = FTP of 3.8

Thibron FTP 9.4 / 1.42 = 6.6
While Khadga FTP 3.8 / 1 = 3.8

6.6 / 3.8 = 1.74
Thibron TP Bonus deals about 74% more damage from these assumptions.

Now of course DA/TA etc will mess with this number as well as TP overflow but, this simple calculation should show you why Thibron is viable and Khadga isn't

(Also, the lower the acc on the off hand, the more the scale will tips toward Thibron)

TPbonus is such a huge increase in DPS your offhand doesn’t even need capped acc for it to beat other options.

OAT weapons are diluted greatly by QA/TA/DA and do not effectively increase your WSdmg.