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Team/Content Advice
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 Bismarck.Malewyb
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By Bismarck.Malewyb 2018-10-16 09:18:29
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My two friends and I have been playing for a few months now, but we're starting to hit a wall.
Our current setup is SUM/GEO, THF, and PUP/DRG.

We've been using the quickstart guide to try and direct what we do, and it's been mostly successful. We've been able to clear the sub 99 content, 119 and some 125 GFNMs, up to 128 UCNMs (albeit with some difficulty), N-HTBFs and some D-HTBFs, and we're currently smashing our faces into SR and E-IA (although it's taking us upwards of 20 minutes to clear).

Prior to my swap to PUP we were struggling to clear most stuff, and now, with time, we've managed to push a bit higher, but our damage is trash. We're in a spot where we're averaging about 5-600 group dps over a 20 minute fight, and we're looking for ways to improve.

We're open to re-configuring our team (can't multi-box) and we're looking for some pointers from higher level/more experienced players on what we can do to improve our clear time/damage/surviability, so we can push through to the Reisenjima GFNMs, and start clearing some higher tier content like Omen (boss runs) and N-IA.

Are we just limited by our three human-player cap or is it our team comp that's holding us back?

Thanks for your time!
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By zaxtiss 2018-10-16 09:30:31
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hmmm,

lots of different viable combo's. some that come to mind for me would be.
pld blu geo : bst geo cor : blu geo brd : rng x 2 pld : blu x 3 :
pld thf whm : blm sch geo : blm x2 sch : whm blu x2
hmmm that's all that comes to mind atm.
while it is possible to 3 man some omen that tends to be with some top tier gear and lots of time put into those jobs.
edit:
do you not want to play with other people? why not join a linkshell and go past 3 manning stuff?
it is still an mmo!
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-10-16 10:01:27
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Your SMN is your best DPS, and GEO is a must to do damage. For most improvement with minimal regearing and job changing:
SMN GEO PUP(tank)

If you have gil or a decent method of farming, a Kendatsuba SAM is an extremely potent DD-tank for most content in your range. Support them with a BRD and a WHM:
SAM BRD WHM

or, if gil and 500jp sound unreasonable, build around a blue mage's ability to cap their own haste/accuracy:
BLU GEO WHM

If you just meant strategy/gear changes, I'm sorry to tell you that SMN THF PUP will never be that great for damage: you don't cap delay and you have minimal sources of attack+ or defense-. GEO THF PUP will be a bit better when using indi-haste/geo-frailty/haste spell, but you're at the mercy of trust healers with 2 dps both in aoe and feeding tp.

See how your THF feels about doing GEO. Would help you a lot.
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 Asura.Aerox
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By Asura.Aerox 2018-10-16 10:04:21
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Valefor.Angierus said: »
Are people multiboxing those roles or is that what they have to work with? You're going to hit a stop gate real quick depending on trust healers and buffs to carry you.

A real healer, a bard, and a DD that can tank will take you rather far, I've cleared all of Escha ZiTah with that setup, WHM,BRD,SAM

2nd this. In fact if you are using trust for the other 3 spots you could for some fights just go geo brd DD. Both geo and brd help heal and remove debuffs.

Personally would go with blue mage as the DD as you can dispel with blank gaze, aoe sleep(light or dark), do great dmg with solo light skillchain with CDC spam and with a 40-50% DT build using the ayanmo+1/2 set and occultation or shadows you can tank really well.

Problem is it's a lot of work to gear up blu that much; a lot of ambu spam and some T1 reisenjima for ws set herculean. The plus side is you don't need omen or dynamis D +3 gear to do great dmg whereas sam drg or war really benefit from it.

Also, is your Geo 900+skill? Or is your thf open to doing brd or cor to buff your main dps even further?
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-10-16 10:11:21
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Asura.Aerox said: »
Also, is your Geo 900+skill?
Ignore this autistic ***.

GEO buffs scale linearly. A 750 skill GEO is roughly 83.3% as effective as a 900 skill GEO, and you get essentially that from just capping skill. A 800 skill GEO with just AF is 88.9% as effective.

You won't notice the difference and you don't need to prioritize it. Asura just has some HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE ideas in their head about what's 'good enough' to do content.
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 Asura.Aerox
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By Asura.Aerox 2018-10-16 10:14:50
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Asura.Aerox said: »
Also, is your Geo 900+skill?
Ignore this autistic ***.

GEO buffs scale linearly. A 750 skill GEO is roughly 83.3% as effective as a 900 skill GEO, and you get essentially that from just capping skill. A 800 skill GEO with just AF is 88.9% as effective.

You won't notice the difference and you don't need to prioritize it. Asura just has some HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE ideas in their head about what's 'good enough' to do content.

It's taking them 20min to clear content, an 11 or 17% rise in efficiency might help. At least i didn't say "do you have idris?" >.> lol
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-10-16 10:16:57
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It's not an 11% or 17%(or less.. 800 is just wearing AF or getting merits, most GEOs have at least 850 if they put any effort in anyway) rise in efficiency. It's an 11% or 17% rise in buff strength on a portion of their buffs. In reality, it's not going to change 20 minute content by more than 30 seconds, especially when one has to be used on haste.

People see '900-GEO' shouts all day and blow it all over, but I guarantee you can't tell if any of the GEOs are 900 or not. You probably can't even eyeball if they have an Idris or not without looking at their char model or /check.
 Bismarck.Oppa
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By Bismarck.Oppa 2018-10-16 10:24:28
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You most definitely can tell between non-idris and idris...wtf.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-10-16 10:31:52
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Bismarck.Malewyb said: »
Prior to my swap to PUP we were struggling to clear most stuff, and now, with time, we've managed to push a bit higher, but our damage is trash. We're in a spot where we're averaging about 5-600 group dps over a 20 minute fight, and we're looking for ways to improve.

Can you please share a general idea of what your gear looks like (Is it 119, artifact/relic/empyrean, bought/HQ, what weapons are people using)? Give us your accuracy amounts (/checkparam on yourself)

Whenever I hear someone say they want to increase their damage, the first place I look is their gear. Are you using gear sets to improve WS/Blood Pact damage? Are people's skills capped? You have a THF and SMN there, which is a good recipe for some high damage if done properly. But need more info on where you're at because it's vague. I get that you've cleared 125 Geas Feat and 128 UNM, but that's not saying much since some of them are kind of weak anyways. Give a bit more context so we can address it properly.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-10-16 10:32:59
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
you can't tell if any of the GEOs are 900 or not

Indi STR test reveals that.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-10-16 10:36:02
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Indi STR test reveals that.
Right, but do people actually do that? Why? You're not going to be able to tell the difference in content speed, and it really doesn't matter. It's just more Asura shout elitism, and over something even more trivial than the typical RMEA only bs.
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 Asura.Aerox
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By Asura.Aerox 2018-10-16 11:19:59
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Indi STR test reveals that.
Right, but do people actually do that? Why? You're not going to be able to tell the difference in content speed, and it really doesn't matter. It's just more Asura shout elitism, and over something even more trivial than the typical RMEA only bs.

Clearly you have an issue with Asura shouts, fair enough. But i wasn't suggesting they need 900skill to get an invite to something or clear content. They are looking to boost their dmg and are returning players so perhaps it was something to look at which may help, especially considering they probably don't have high end gear.

Anyway, it was a minor point. The main thing is that the thf or pup/drg should consider doing brd or cor as that will have a much bigger impact, or geo like you suggested for the smn.

You could clear vol1 E ambu this month with pup geo smn easily, ive done it pup blu whm. Can also clear some reisen t1 for herc/merlinic or escha t2/3 with that setup too.
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By Afania 2018-10-16 11:22:01
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Bismarck.Oppa said: »
You most definitely can tell between non-idris and idris...wtf.


It depends on the content, and whether you have additional buffs debuffs for pdif or not. Also kinda depend on whether defensive bubbles are used too.

Some of the ambu VD mob has extremely low defense, that even nq geo +chaos roll + dia4 + def- ws can cap pdif, in that case idris makes no difference.

Then I see people ask for idris in such content and I can't help but wonder why.....
 Bismarck.Oppa
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By Bismarck.Oppa 2018-10-16 11:39:57
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Afania said: »
Bismarck.Oppa said: »
You most definitely can tell between non-idris and idris...wtf.


It depends on the content, and whether you have additional buffs debuffs for pdif or not. Also kinda depend on whether defensive bubbles are used too.

Some of the ambu VD mob has extremely low defense, that even nq geo +chaos roll + dia4 + def- ws can cap pdif, in that case idris makes no difference.

Then I see people ask for idris in such content and I can't help but wonder why.....

When I box content, I swap around my account that has idris to what is needed, there is a noticeable difference when using non-idris alt.

I'm also not suggesting nor am I a proponent of requiring idris for content, however shouting for a capped skill geo is absolutely not unreasonable.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-10-16 11:44:45
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Whenever I see a "regal cor idris geo" shout I like to join and purposely disable the items.

No one notices. Instead of +5 you got +0 Congrats on your stupidity.

"oh, must've been a lua error, sorreh"
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 Bismarck.Malewyb
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By Bismarck.Malewyb 2018-10-16 11:55:58
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Allright:

@zaxtiss : we have inconsistent/trash schedules that only allow us to play for an hour or two at weird irregular hours.

@Angierus : we're not multiboxing, those are the roles we have mostly geared to work with, one person is drg/pup (myself), another is sum/geo, and the third is thf only currently. As for trust healers, we've definitely begun to notice how frequently they like to just nope out.

@Comeatmeat : we're mostly open to full team changes. In terms of composition, I'm seeing a lot of sup/sup/tank-dd. Do you think that dancer could work in lieu of whm, or is the whm the linchpin?

@Aerox : I'm not sure if he has 900+, we don't have any REMA weapons so I'm not sure if that's required for it. Our other 3 spots are trusts though, usually being whm/whm/rdm or whm/rdm/brd. As for the thief changing, I'm not sure, he's currently our primary DD.

@Buukki : Sorry about that! For our gear, we're geared with a combo of AF2, REL1, EMP0, AMBU2, HTBF accessories, and and augmented USkirm weapons. Our THF and my PUP are at around 1200 before food. As for our SUM, he has more than we do, but I'm not sure how avatar accuracy works. We have a good bit of not+1 stuff from the AH as well, sachets, rings, belts, animators, that type of thing.
 Bismarck.Malewyb
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By Bismarck.Malewyb 2018-10-16 12:01:02
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Asura.Aerox said: »
Anyway, it was a minor point. The main thing is that the thf or pup/drg should consider doing brd or cor as that will have a much bigger impact, or geo like you suggested for the smn.

I have a COR about 50% geared, so that would definitely be doable. Our THF is currently working on WAR, but has looked at SAM a bit. Do you think GEO/COR/WAR(SAM) could work? We'd still be reliant on trust healers though, or do you think sub WHM could work?

I'm really appreciating the feedback, thank you.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-10-16 12:05:06
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I will say that your gear does not seem to be the issue. Grab a support job as mentioned (like GEO) and see if you can't bump up killspeed a bit. FWIW, SMN+COR+GEO using August tank or whatever can pretty much self-sustain a lot of content, even if the COR never shoots. You'll be relatively safe as long as August can stay alive.
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 Bismarck.Oppa
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By Bismarck.Oppa 2018-10-16 12:07:15
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Bismarck.Malewyb said: »
Asura.Aerox said: »
Anyway, it was a minor point. The main thing is that the thf or pup/drg should consider doing brd or cor as that will have a much bigger impact, or geo like you suggested for the smn.

I have a COR about 50% geared, so that would definitely be doable. Our THF is currently working on WAR, but has looked at SAM a bit. Do you think GEO/COR/WAR(SAM) could work? We'd still be reliant on trust healers though, or do you think sub WHM could work?

I'm really appreciating the feedback, thank you.

Personally i'd swap cor for a dedicated whm and let trust do rolls, but you could probably be okay doing that setup.

I prefer sam in hybrid, but that's probably biased since I do everything on sam.
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 Bismarck.Malewyb
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By Bismarck.Malewyb 2018-10-16 12:21:09
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@Buukki : Might be hard pressed to get the THF to swap to a support, but August is definitely something we can push for. I agree in terms of the support:killspeed relation, when I'm tooling around on DRG the difference between sylv/qul and no sylv/qul is quite significant.

@Oppa : Sam is definitely doable, but outside of bias, is the samurai self-chaining the real bonus? Could the extra TP from retaliation compensate, or is the gap between war and same really that high?
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By Ulgar 2018-10-16 12:42:05
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Trying to cause minimal disruptions to your existing setups, I think the most realistic idea I can see is have your THF add BLU or COR to the repertoire. Once you are comfortable in your ability to gear you can branch out further as you see fit.

It isn't ideal, but I understand not wanting to rearrange everything all at once.
 Leviathan.Isiolia
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By Leviathan.Isiolia 2018-10-16 12:48:33
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Ulgar said: »
Trying to cause minimal disruptions to your existing setups, I think the most realistic idea I can see is have your THF add BLU or COR to the repertoire. Once you are comfortable in your ability to gear you can branch out further as you see fit.

Agreed.

Both jobs share gear with THF. COR would fit in nicely with the pet setup, and BLU + GEO alone can do quite a lot, allowing the third slot to swap around based on content.


I think the consideration with heavy DD is that you'd want to swap someone to BRD to properly support it.
 Bismarck.Oppa
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By Bismarck.Oppa 2018-10-16 13:03:26
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Bismarck.Malewyb said: »
@Buukki : Might be hard pressed to get the THF to swap to a support, but August is definitely something we can push for. I agree in terms of the support:killspeed relation, when I'm tooling around on DRG the difference between sylv/qul and no sylv/qul is quite significant.

@Oppa : Sam is definitely doable, but outside of bias, is the samurai self-chaining the real bonus? Could the extra TP from retaliation compensate, or is the gap between war and same really that high?

I prefer sam for the obvious skill chain damage and flexibility, but hybrid set still retains a lot of multi-attack while providing healthy DT and magic evasion. Survivability with Seigan+Third Eye and Yaegasumi. HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE tp gain and overflow when in high/capped haste/acc situations.

Cons are you're going to want empyrean and/or aeonic and Ken gear and neck options can get pricey.

BLU is another good choice for a dd/tank.
 Bismarck.Tesiex
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By Bismarck.Tesiex 2018-10-16 13:09:07
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BLU is a lot of work but can help fill in just about any gap you might have for whatever content you're up against. Can tank reasonably well, can do fine DPS and heal in a pinch (when trusts aren't on the ball). If someone has interest in putting in the time to put it together, this would be my suggestion.

Another option I've been messing around with lately that no one posted is RUN. Can tank and DPS relatively well at the same time or go fully to one side or the other, as needed, by changing gear sets and/or sub-jobs. Slightly less work to set up than BLU (though you'll still want BLU as a sub-job but fewer spells to get than BLU main) and shares plenty of gear with BLU and THF if you ever want to branch out.
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 Bismarck.Malewyb
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By Bismarck.Malewyb 2018-10-16 13:15:02
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Thanks everyone, this has been really helpful, and we're talking right now about moving some stuff around.
 
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-10-16 13:45:33
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I have DRG, and soloed all 2100 Job Points on it because it was a fun little thing to play in my off-time. DRG can put out some massive damage, even when not supported, and works pretty well with August if you use your jumps wisely. DRG can emergency heal if need be, has a sturdy pet to split damage for certain scenarios, and can skillchain just as good as SAM. SAM is also extremely useful in a lowman scenario, and the learning curve to get very decent is less steeper than say DRG. You can get pretty far with just Ichigohitofuri.

I would tell you to "play a lot of jobs", but the simple point is basically what everyone has already stated: Bring along a WHM and support, and nearly any third DD/hybrid job can do the trick to get things done. Trust healers are competent to a certain degree but I honestly rely more on my own skill than them, whenever i'm doing something semi-challenging. Trusts are really just going to fill in gaps in your group but will never truly replace a real player, so I try to make my trusts the least necessary jobs when lowmanning (like August, since he almost can never die if you have a GEO+BRD).
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 Asura.Aerox
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By Asura.Aerox 2018-10-16 14:41:46
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Food for thought, Drg also has angon which stacks with frailty and dia. Add a brd into the mix and that's pretty good dmg output, moreso if it gives you tp overflow for 1750% stardivers (get WoTG earring). You will need a DT set though for aoe dmg moves, can't just rely on august tank and whm trusts :) But yeah if your Thf wants to stay main dps then changing to either cor or blu are good options as others have said.
 Cerberus.Boogs
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By Cerberus.Boogs 2018-10-16 15:16:00
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Bismarck.Malewyb said: »
@Buukki : Sorry about that! For our gear, we're geared with a combo of AF2, REL1, EMP0, AMBU2, HTBF accessories, and and augmented USkirm weapons. Our THF and my PUP are at around 1200 before food. As for our SUM, he has more than we do, but I'm not sure how avatar accuracy works. We have a good bit of not+1 stuff from the AH as well, sachets, rings, belts, animators, that type of thing.

No reisenjima gear? Also I would make sure that your empty gear is at least 119 since your trusts’ level will be the average if your iLevel. Your group should be able to do most reisenjima tier 1’s reasonably well. You could probably clear incursion bosses for tier 2 pops. Each escha NM kill will unlock vorseals that will further empower your group while in escha zones.
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