Is Asura A Good Place? Looking To Transfer

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2018-08-14
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Is Asura a good place? Looking to transfer
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 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2018-05-17 02:32:05
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First off Afania, I agree with the context in which you analyzed your argument.

I only have one remark regarding this:

Afania said: »
Also to respond your point 1:
A big endgame ls isn't necessary hell for all of new or returning player. An established endgame ls with extremely top end core group can clear 18 man alliance content at ratio of (just estimate, may not be completely accurate) 60% very experienced hardcore player, 35% less experienced casual and 5% brand new player. As long as pros takes more important job role and new players take support role like cor, the alliance performance won't be hindered much.

This can't be longterm or even veridically sustainable, while its true that a solid core team can carry all alliance to victory, yet the amount of garbage the core team has to endure is going to reach a point were they will resort to limit the amount they can "carry over" or skip this whole drama entirely making Saevel's argument much more prevalent.

More often than not, the core team is going to face all the backlash from mediocre/crappy players (from being branded as "leet" or have the audacity to think that the core team works for them and start demanding ***or listen to their "strats") and once they are done getting what they want they simply leave without even saying thank you haha.

IMO thats one of reasons why they leave to another server, to start fresh and hide behind the masses.


Bismarck.Laurelli said: »
Just keep in mind that if you can't make friends on a small server, you won't magically learn how to make friends when you arrive on a larger one.

100% also where is Yanni!!!
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-05-17 06:05:05
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Leviathan.Katriina said: »
This can't be longterm or even veridically sustainable, while its true that a solid core team can carry all alliance to victory, yet the amount of garbage the core team has to endure is going to reach a point were they will resort to limit the amount they can "carry over" or skip this whole drama entirely making Saevel's argument much more prevalent.

More often than not, the core team is going to face all the backlash from mediocre/crappy players (from being branded as "leet" or have the audacity to think that the core team works for them and start demanding ***or listen to their "strats") and once they are done getting what they want they simply leave without even saying thank you haha.

That "core team" would eventually start their own side group to get stuff done without having to carry everyone else. Eventually that side group would become so successful, due to not having to carry people, that it would become the main group. The previous main group would then become a social shell. The core team would fade away and all the other people would get frustrated as their are now routinely failing.

This is a process I've seen repeated at least a dozen times in my end game career, probably more.

It all come down to players genuinely wanting to improve vs expecting to be carried. Everyone like to give lip service to "wanting to improve" but never can find the time to read a strategy thread on the forums or do some basic wiki research.
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By DirectX 2018-05-17 07:14:39
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All linkshells and groups have always had an inner core and supporting core. You know if you're in the inner core if you get to play DD jobs to events, or tank. If you're support or healer you're normally a bottom feeder that gets scraps. True story.
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By kishr 2018-05-17 07:22:03
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In my younger and more vulnerable years my father gave me some advice that I’ve been turning over in my mind ever since.

“Whenever you feel like criticizing any one,” he told me, “just remember that all the people in this world haven’t had the advantages that you’ve had.”

He didn’t say any more, but we’ve always been unusually communicative in a reserved way, and I understood that he meant a great deal more than that. In consequence, I’m inclined to reserve all judgments, a habit that has opened up many curious natures to me and also made me the victim of not a few veteran bores. The abnormal mind is quick to detect and attach itself to this quality when it appears in a normal person, and so it came about that in college I was unjustly accused of being a politician, because I was privy to the secret griefs of wild, unknown men. Most of the confidences were unsought — frequently I have feigned sleep, preoccupation, or a hostile levity when I realized by some unmistakable sign that an intimate revelation was quivering on the horizon; for the intimate revelations of young men, or at least the terms in which they express them, are usually plagiaristic and marred by obvious suppressions. Reserving judgments is a matter of infinite hope. I am still a little afraid of missing something if I forget that, as my father snobbishly suggested, and I snobbishly repeat, a sense of the fundamental decencies is parcelled out unequally at birth.
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By fonewear 2018-05-17 07:42:23
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kishr said: »
In my younger and more vulnerable years my father gave me some advice that I’ve been turning over in my mind ever since.

“Whenever you feel like criticizing any one,” he told me, “just remember that all the people in this world haven’t had the advantages that you’ve had.”

He didn’t say any more, but we’ve always been unusually communicative in a reserved way, and I understood that he meant a great deal more than that. In consequence, I’m inclined to reserve all judgments, a habit that has opened up many curious natures to me and also made me the victim of not a few veteran bores. The abnormal mind is quick to detect and attach itself to this quality when it appears in a normal person, and so it came about that in college I was unjustly accused of being a politician, because I was privy to the secret griefs of wild, unknown men. Most of the confidences were unsought — frequently I have feigned sleep, preoccupation, or a hostile levity when I realized by some unmistakable sign that an intimate revelation was quivering on the horizon; for the intimate revelations of young men, or at least the terms in which they express them, are usually plagiaristic and marred by obvious suppressions. Reserving judgments is a matter of infinite hope. I am still a little afraid of missing something if I forget that, as my father snobbishly suggested, and I snobbishly repeat, a sense of the fundamental decencies is parcelled out unequally at birth.

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By fonewear 2018-05-17 07:44:29
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
This can't be longterm or even veridically sustainable, while its true that a solid core team can carry all alliance to victory, yet the amount of garbage the core team has to endure is going to reach a point were they will resort to limit the amount they can "carry over" or skip this whole drama entirely making Saevel's argument much more prevalent.

More often than not, the core team is going to face all the backlash from mediocre/crappy players (from being branded as "leet" or have the audacity to think that the core team works for them and start demanding ***or listen to their "strats") and once they are done getting what they want they simply leave without even saying thank you haha.

That "core team" would eventually start their own side group to get stuff done without having to carry everyone else. Eventually that side group would become so successful, due to not having to carry people, that it would become the main group. The previous main group would then become a social shell. The core team would fade away and all the other people would get frustrated as their are now routinely failing.

This is a process I've seen repeated at least a dozen times in my end game career, probably more.

It all come down to players genuinely wanting to improve vs expecting to be carried. Everyone like to give lip service to "wanting to improve" but never can find the time to read a strategy thread on the forums or do some basic wiki research.

It's a video game not a self help book...
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-05-17 07:46:21
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DirectX said: »
All linkshells and groups have always had an inner core and supporting core. You know if you're in the inner core if you get to play DD jobs to events, or tank. If you're support or healer you're normally a bottom feeder that gets scraps. True story.

Not true. Some of our most amazing people are also Idris GEO's, REMA BRD's or OMGWTFBBQ WHM's. That British guy who makes all those kick *** videos you guys love, he also has Idris GEO, WHM and RDM. Most of our guys got jobs on multiple fronts, BRD's, WHM's GEO's, COR's Tank's and yes DD's too. The best players are the ones who have played multiple roles and know how they interact with each other. Someone who's played WHM before would know how important positioning is and thus when they play DD would know to put themselves in a place where the healer can cure them without placing the healer in harms way. They would also understand the nature of global lockout times and know that they need to buy their healer time to cast cure and use appropriate defensive measures to buy that time.
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By fonewear 2018-05-17 07:47:33
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The best players are the ones that don't write long paragraphs...they tend to write medium ones.
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By fonewear 2018-05-17 07:48:36
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Asura.Saevel said: »
DirectX said: »
All linkshells and groups have always had an inner core and supporting core. You know if you're in the inner core if you get to play DD jobs to events, or tank. If you're support or healer you're normally a bottom feeder that gets scraps. True story.

Not true. Some of our most amazing people are also Idris GEO's, REMA BRD's or OMGWTFBBQ WHM's. That British guy who makes all those kick *** videos you guys love, he also has Idris GEO, WHM and RDM. Most of our guys got jobs on multiple fronts, BRD's, WHM's GEO's, COR's Tank's and yes DD's too. The best players are the ones who have played multiple roles and know how they interact with each other. Someone who's played WHM before would know how important positioning is and thus when they play DD would know to put themselves in a place where the healer can cure them without placing the healer in harms way. They would also understand the nature of global lockout times and know that they need to buy their healer time to cast cure and use appropriate defensive measures to buy that time.

How could someone British be great....
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By Numquam 2018-05-17 08:15:42
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They should merge all servers into one and see what happens.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-05-17 09:15:44
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Asura.Zart said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I'm not even gonna reply to that babble the way I originally thought about doing, because that wall of text is pure dreck and utter rubbish. Not worth it.

I'll just respectfully bow out and defer to my Willy Wonka voice: GOOD DAY SIR!
yeah i see how much effort you put into your posts, and I like how you think your so much better then I am.

Do you hear voices or something? You literally quoted me when I made a general statement about idiots who ask for REMA DD, and end up doing Normal ambuscade.....If that's you.... yep, do the math buddy.

Seriously, your bar for standard on Asura is being able to clear normal ambuscade, and if you don't possess a rema, you don't meet that standard. You serious? I don't think I'm better than you or anybody else, but you and players like you (theres a whole host of "those shouters" just like you that produce sheer garbage groups, so I wasn't talking about you specifically) are EXACTLY the reason why Asura gets a halfway shitty rep for having to deal with absolute scrubs and long ambuscade lines and other nonsense.

And I'm not even calling you out on it (outside of the fact that you volunteered yourself as the village idiot). I'm just saying, please stop sharing your experiences of how people who don't possess a glowy ragnarok can't possibly do V1N and they should stick to V2VD or below. You're literally speaking nonsense and you are making all of Asura look bad with your retarded logic. Just stop man.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-05-17 09:58:29
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Afania said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I'm not even gonna reply to that babble the way I originally thought about doing, because that wall of text is pure dreck and utter rubbish. Not worth it.

I'll just respectfully bow out and defer to my Willy Wonka voice: GOOD DAY SIR!


Is he trolling?

No, he's not. He's dead serious, and this is the kind of dialogue I try to shield genuine people outside of Asura from. They don't need to hear this rhetoric and think this is the majority. It's pretty embarrassing...
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2018-05-17 10:21:14
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The goal of a competent "core group" must be to bring up fellow "leech"members to a competence level where they are now part of the core group. Any other model isn't sustainable, correct, but if that core group only looks at new members as cannon fodder to throw at unfaltering bravado to make kyous mindless or roll *** for their smn burns, of course it falls apart.

On small servers there no longer is the luxury of "git gewd" unless you care to rely on multiboxers. Leadership very often must be tutors as well as task masters. If you aren't ready to do that, don't lead a shell. Otherwise you're just driving people into the waiting arms of Asura and its all too ready mercs.
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By kishr 2018-05-17 10:48:14
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fonewear said: »
a bunch more irrelivent garbage
its a copy paste from the first paragraph from the great gaspy.
showing how this thread is so derailed.
he got his answer 4 pages ago.
shows also your intellect.
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By fonewear 2018-05-17 10:50:48
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kishr said: »
fonewear said: »
a bunch more irrelivent garbage
its a copy paste from the first paragraph from the great gaspy.
showing how this thread is so derailed.
he got his answer 4 pages ago.
shows also your intellect.

Cool Story Bro but the movie was better.
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By Afania 2018-05-17 10:53:02
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Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
The goal of a competent "core group" must be to bring up fellow "leech"members to a competence level where they are now part of the core group. Any other model isn't sustainable, correct, but if that core group only looks at new members as cannon fodder to throw at unfaltering bravado to make kyous mindless or roll *** for their smn burns, of course it falls apart.

On small servers there no longer is the luxury of "git gewd" unless you care to rely on multiboxers. Leadership very often must be tutors as well as task masters. If you aren't ready to do that, don't lead a shell. Otherwise you're just driving people into the waiting arms of Asura and its all too ready mercs.


Cele is spot on.

A very effective group doesn't need need 6/6 super players. In fact such setup sometimes work less effectively because super players don't always like each other.

It's usually 1 to 2 super players, 3 normal people and 1 "that nice person that's still gearing up" works best.

And members having good synergy with each other is usually more important than individual playing skill, this is because different job role has different skill requirement and those roles don't need super players.

As long as people work well each other nobody would leave. Members leaving a group is usually the result of poor management.

Management is probably the rarest skill in ffxi and rl. And managing a sustainable ls is even harder than small group of friends. There's a reason why management jobs makes more money irl, it's never easy, lol.
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By fonewear 2018-05-17 10:54:50
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It all began with a thread that has been discussed 300 times in the past...or so the legend says.

We should just sticky this thread so you guys don't have to repeat from now till infinity.

Put all your Asura questions here for convenience
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2018-05-17 11:40:00
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Afania said: »
Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
The goal of a competent "core group" must be to bring up fellow "leech"members to a competence level where they are now part of the core group. Any other model isn't sustainable, correct, but if that core group only looks at new members as cannon fodder to throw at unfaltering bravado to make kyous mindless or roll *** for their smn burns, of course it falls apart.

On small servers there no longer is the luxury of "git gewd" unless you care to rely on multiboxers. Leadership very often must be tutors as well as task masters. If you aren't ready to do that, don't lead a shell. Otherwise you're just driving people into the waiting arms of Asura and its all too ready mercs.


Cele is spot on.

A very effective group doesn't need need 6/6 super players. In fact such setup sometimes work less effectively because super players don't always like each other.

It's usually 1 to 2 super players, 3 normal people and 1 "that nice person that's still gearing up" works best.

And members having good synergy with each other is usually more important than individual playing skill, this is because different job role has different skill requirement and those roles don't need super players.

As long as people work well each other nobody would leave. Members leaving a group is usually the result of poor management.

Management is probably the rarest skill in ffxi and rl. And managing a sustainable ls is even harder than small group of friends. There's a reason why management jobs makes more money irl, it's never easy, lol.

Afania, have my chocobo babies. No, really. I haven't done that vorseal. Or at least bring a cadre of shooters to leviathan and let's rule the pewpew world.

/lovefest over.
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 Odin.Drakenv
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-05-17 12:05:41
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fonewear said: »
It all began with a thread that has been discussed 300 times in the past...or so the legend says.

We should just sticky this thread so you guys don't have to repeat from now till infinity.

Put all your Asura questions here for convenience
And then someone else will come asking without paying attention to this obvious thread...
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By Afania 2018-05-17 12:21:14
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Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
Or at least bring a cadre of shooters

Here you go.




We need a server merge.
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 Bismarck.Laurelli
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By Bismarck.Laurelli 2018-05-17 12:22:29
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Anyone who's willing to start a "Should I move to Asura" thread, should move to Asura. /thread
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 Fenrir.Richybear
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By Fenrir.Richybear 2018-05-17 12:41:40
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It's also the F2P campaign so I'm sure we're due for 57 more "why won't my stuff update??" threads next
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 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2018-05-17 12:56:31
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Afania said: »
A very effective group doesn't need need 6/6 super players. In fact such setup sometimes work less effectively because super players don't always like each other.

It's usually 1 to 2 super players, 3 normal people and 1 "that nice person that's still gearing up" works best.

As much as I'd love to see this equation pan out, I'm afraid its rather inconsequential.

What you propose won't deter players from moving around or fill the roles as intended, countless times you end up reinventing the wheel to a point where it drains even the most resilient "super" player.


Afania said: »
Management is probably the rarest skill in ffxi and rl

I believe this would've been accurate outside the current game meta. The lack of new content/strats propagates a monotonous trend in how End Game Linkshells operate, and linkshells can't afford any form of inconvenience when operating this "monotony".
As far as "management skill" goes, I can only see it applicable on "freshly squeezed un-repeated V1".

Tl;DR Poor management isn't a factor in current meta... game is technically dead!
People move around out of convenience in rl and/or playing it "smart" as I mentioned before.
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By Afania 2018-05-17 13:33:32
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Leviathan.Katriina said: »
Afania said: »
A very effective group doesn't need need 6/6 super players. In fact such setup sometimes work less effectively because super players don't always like each other.

It's usually 1 to 2 super players, 3 normal people and 1 "that nice person that's still gearing up" works best.

As much as I'd love to see this equation pan out, I'm afraid its rather inconsequential.

What you propose won't deter players from moving around or fill the roles as intended, countless times you end up reinventing the wheel to a point where it drains even the most resilient "super" player.

This probably depends on the size of ls.

A mid size ls with something like 10 to 20 people may not have much room because every member needs to be more "leet" to carry their weight. A larger ls with more resources will have more room and have room for wider gap between "best player in the ls" and "that nice guy still gearing up".

Saevel specifically said in another thread that they randomly offer free spot and keep "right people" that they met. Because they can, and they don't suffer from efficiency decrease from doing so. And that's often how resourceful and established ls functions in game. LS with less resources don't have that kind of choice. It's like small company irl don't offer paid intern position, because they can't.

Except the difference between small server and big server is, on small server there are more incentive for big established group to offer internship positions. You have to, otherwise once old members cap on drops and quit the ls size would shrink. There are no other choice.

On the other hand on a 2100 people server a big established group totally has the freedom to set the bar higher and never offer any intern positions. Just because some groups choose to do it anyways, doesn't mean there's strong incentive to do so. At that point it's more like charity than a management strategy to operate a functional endgame on long term basis.

Leviathan.Katriina said: »
Afania said: »
A very effective group doesn't need need 6/6 super players. In fact such setup sometimes work less effectively because super players don't always like each other.

It's usually 1 to 2 super players, 3 normal people and 1 "that nice person that's still gearing up" works best.

As much as I'd love to see this equation pan out, I'm afraid its rather inconsequential.

What you propose won't deter players from moving around or fill the roles as intended, countless times you end up reinventing the wheel to a point where it drains even the most resilient "super" player.

Quote:
As far as "management skill" goes, I can only see it applicable on "freshly squeezed un-repeated V1".

Tl;DR Poor management isn't a factor in current meta... game is technically dead!
People move around out of convenience in rl and/or playing it "smart" as I mentioned before.

9 years of Endgame career here, with countless different endgame ls experience across various communities, all has very different culture, group dynamics or even language. I can tell you that management skill definitely plays very important factor. Some of the best ls that I've been to with the ability to kill hardest things consistently does not run into problems you described, nor they have super players in every slots. The problem that you described often happens in groups that's struggling on getting enough key jobs to operate steadily.

Which is like a problem that 80% of ls face, but unable to fix. So I can definitely see why people think this problem is an universal fact because they run into it multiple times.

And yes, getting key jobs and deal with unhappy members leaving is part of management. It's one of the most valuable skill irl for a reason. If it's easy, then every ls or company irl would be successful.

And I'm talking about it from more of a bigger pov, not just one case or two.


DirectX said: »
You know if you're in the inner core if you get to play DD jobs to events, or tank. If you're support or healer you're normally a bottom feeder that gets scraps. True story.

This is true in PUG, especially mid to lower tier content PUG but it's actually the other way around in Endgame ls. There are like 3-4 endgame that Ive been to in my Endgame career that I consider extremely top end, the core people that carried the weight were brd and whm. They were the the key to getting hardest content clear.

On the other hand dd slots were taken by "players with good gears" In harder Endgame. The value of DD jobs in an Endgame group is often exaggerated by parse demons on the forums that's obsessed with individual skill.
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By Kodaijin 2018-05-17 14:07:03
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Numquam said: »
They should merge all servers into one and see what happens.

Afania said: »

We need a server merge.


They wont. They make too much money from server transfers.

Its a similar argument for when people say crap like "its a 15 year old game, they should make it free to play or lower the cost" why should they? people keep paying! @17 servers even with an average of 400 users per server (the number real is higher than that) they are bringing in $88,000 a month. After paying their 3.5 FTEs, they are making a nice profit still for relatively no effort.(when was the last time you submited a GM ticket and didnt receive a BS message? <old man voice> "back in my day, we actually saw GMs! oh the glow of their gear was a beautiful sight" Anyway, the extra $18 per transfer, which is all automated, is just icing on the cake.
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By Afania 2018-05-17 14:18:26
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I was joking about merge, lol. I personally don't think current ffxi server and content design can manage 2 to 3k people server. 500 to 1k is probably the best, but even 300 is still functional.

If they somehow make content more spread out maybe they'd merge. But atm it's ambuscade 80% of time, Omen dyna whenever ki is up. And that's not healthy for super sized servers.

I would love to meet other passionate players like cele though.
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By Kodaijin 2018-05-17 14:29:50
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I used on of my alts that are temporarily available due to the campaign to check out my old server (cerb) and there were only 215 people online. I saw 2 people in jueno... made me sad. went back to asura and there were 1900 online.

To Afania's point about best populations being 500-1000...if you mean online and active then yeah thats probably good. I am sure of the 1900 online on asura when i checked, a huge portion were afk or idle.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-05-17 14:38:57
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Kodaijin said: »
To Afania's point about best populations being 500-1000...if you mean online and active then yeah thats probably good. I am sure of the 1900 online on asura when i checked, a huge portion were afk or idle.

Which is why I said server population above 1000 accounts logged in during prime time, it results in 300~500 people actually doing stuff.
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2018-05-17 14:40:42
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Small server eyeball math - if 300 people are online, assume 200 are real players not afk bazaars. Of those 200, at least 75 are secondary/tertiary/etc characters of the multi boxers. That means very likely 100-125 unique people online active. And honestly, that's a little generous oon the multi boxers. Then add in language barrier for 15%-40% depending on your playing hours, and you are looking ase around 60 unique players you can communicate with at a given moment.

That 300 is quite as illusion.
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 Odin.Drakenv
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-05-17 14:56:07
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Fenrir.Richybear said: »
It's also the F2P campaign so I'm sure we're due for 57 more "why won't my stuff update??" threads next
Lol
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