On stuff where you'll be capped on attack, that means you either fight fail mobs in which randy will outparse any BST on the galaxy or if you fight actual content where you need buffers means you need those 2 buffers and someone healing you for some master dmg increase lowering your pet dmg big time since you will have to use melee gear on the master thus gimping the pet.
Instead of 1 bst meleeing with 2 buffer jobs and a healer to keep you alive, you could do cor + 3 BSTs using pets and you'll basically shred anything down efficiently.
BRD has fencer too, why isnt BRD on the blurred shield too!
Why Doesn't BST Have A Fencer Shield Again?
Why doesn't BST have a fencer shield again?
Ragnarok.Phuoc said: »
On stuff where you'll be capped on attack, that means you either fight fail mobs in which randy will outparse any BST on the galaxy or if you fight actual content where you need buffers means you need those 2 buffers and someone healing you for some master dmg increase lowering your pet dmg big time since you will have to use melee gear on the master thus gimping the pet.
Instead of 1 bst meleeing with 2 buffer jobs and a healer to keep you alive, you could do cor + 3 BSTs using pets and you'll basically shred anything down efficiently.
BRD has fencer too, why isnt BRD on the blurred shield too!
Instead of 1 bst meleeing with 2 buffer jobs and a healer to keep you alive, you could do cor + 3 BSTs using pets and you'll basically shred anything down efficiently.
BRD has fencer too, why isnt BRD on the blurred shield too!
brd isn't forced to stay within 5' of the melees to keep them buffed because SE calls them a melee? God could you imagine putting that same tether on them?
[+]
Oh boy, this topic... if Square-Enix really wants beastmaster to be in melee range, they should a) put Charmer's Merlin Ready reduction into the class as a second JP bonus or increase the effect of merits to keep us at 10s Ready and b) remove the JA wait from BST pet commands. Then we'd be in a similar place to PUP, we could melee alongside our pets and be a hybrid DPS. Which BSTs really care about Fencer on shields when our melee DPS is fundamentally useless?
This is off-topic but I have to say- healing is an acquired taste and not for everyone, but in FFXI specifically the healing situation is dire. We have one healer that is head-and-shoulders above the rest, but it is mechanically rather dull; WHM is like playing holy paladin in WoW. If you want to heal primarily you will play white mage, period. Red mage and scholar can sometimes fill that slot but it's not like other MMOs, there's not really a niche where RDM and SCH are great alternative full-time healers.
Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
Ironic.
I would say that most people don't engage because you need a good healer to stay alive. Perhaps more than 1.
Proportionally very few players want to play the healer. Its hard to find a player to be the healer. Will I incur wrath to say its pretty boring? maybe its just an acquired taste...
consequently, we use trusts for healers OR develop strategies to work around the lack.
I would say that most people don't engage because you need a good healer to stay alive. Perhaps more than 1.
Proportionally very few players want to play the healer. Its hard to find a player to be the healer. Will I incur wrath to say its pretty boring? maybe its just an acquired taste...
consequently, we use trusts for healers OR develop strategies to work around the lack.
This is off-topic but I have to say- healing is an acquired taste and not for everyone, but in FFXI specifically the healing situation is dire. We have one healer that is head-and-shoulders above the rest, but it is mechanically rather dull; WHM is like playing holy paladin in WoW. If you want to heal primarily you will play white mage, period. Red mage and scholar can sometimes fill that slot but it's not like other MMOs, there's not really a niche where RDM and SCH are great alternative full-time healers.
With the bst update the melee buff should have been on the master, not the pet. The defense buff, then, should be on the pet.
Sometimes I melee with axe and shield when my attack is capped. Sometimes I offhand charmer's merlin and stay out of range. It's situational.
In some situations, bst melee actually outpaces or keeps even with the pet, at least my bst. In other cases it's not worth getting in range.
It's situational. But we still need a good pet/master specific shield (that doesn't include war).
Sometimes I melee with axe and shield when my attack is capped. Sometimes I offhand charmer's merlin and stay out of range. It's situational.
In some situations, bst melee actually outpaces or keeps even with the pet, at least my bst. In other cases it's not worth getting in range.
It's situational. But we still need a good pet/master specific shield (that doesn't include war).
Healer is the absolute worst job.
Most important, least wanted, most needed, least played, biggest pain in the ***, most blamed for fails, most responsibility.
Talk about imbalance in ffxi? Healer gets ***.
Most important, least wanted, most needed, least played, biggest pain in the ***, most blamed for fails, most responsibility.
Talk about imbalance in ffxi? Healer gets ***.
[+]
People acting like it's hard to get bet support to dd when cors melee to great effect all the time. Sadly though we lack the right stuff to really push that well
Shiva.Malthar said: »
With the bst update the melee buff should have been on the master, not the pet. The defense buff, then, should be on the pet.
Sometimes I melee with axe and shield when my attack is capped. Sometimes I offhand charmer's merlin and stay out of range. It's situational.
In some situations, bst melee actually outpaces or keeps even with the pet, at least my bst. In other cases it's not worth getting in range.
It's situational. But we still need a good pet/master specific shield (that doesn't include war).
Sometimes I melee with axe and shield when my attack is capped. Sometimes I offhand charmer's merlin and stay out of range. It's situational.
In some situations, bst melee actually outpaces or keeps even with the pet, at least my bst. In other cases it's not worth getting in range.
It's situational. But we still need a good pet/master specific shield (that doesn't include war).
If you outparse your pet (a real pet, nos a scrub pet) meleeing with an axe, you doing something extremely wrong here because on instances where you have capped attack, chances are your pet will have it too dealing stupid amounts of damage every 10 seconds.
SE screwed it up with BST with all the nerfs, they tried to make BST a "frontline DD" without the DD traits/merits/JP stuff for it, there's literally 0 merits/JP point categories for the master, everything is focused for the pet so this attempt of making BST frontliner while nerfing it was terribad.
SE way of doing things: lets break XX job so XX job is happy!, they nerfed the range in which you could do ready moves and that same update they boosted SMN bp range to 21.5" (or even larger depending on target), its simply HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE.
Now if you wanna gimp your pet damage so you can frontline, be my guest!
Ragnarok.Phuoc said: »
If you outparse your pet (a real pet, nos a scrub pet) meleeing with an axe, you doing something extremely wrong here because on instances where you have capped attack, chances are your pet will have it too dealing stupid amounts of damage every 10 seconds.
Fully buffed with appropriate DD buffs you most certainly will outdo the pet. Mistral Axe with Aeonic will hit for 20~30K with a decent set and you will be doing it much faster then once every 10s, every 4~6 seconds. Now you won't be safe and watching cat videos like you were before, but you can't do that now anyway. You also don't have a 5~6K+ HP pool with zero weakness timer after death.
Outside of SMN AC brokenness people didn't use pets because they were the best damage, they were the safest damage.
Asura.Saevel said: »
Ragnarok.Phuoc said: »
If you outparse your pet (a real pet, nos a scrub pet) meleeing with an axe, you doing something extremely wrong here because on instances where you have capped attack, chances are your pet will have it too dealing stupid amounts of damage every 10 seconds.
Fully buffed with appropriate DD buffs you most certainly will outdo the pet. Mistral Axe with Aeonic will hit for 20~30K with a decent set and you will be doing it much faster then once every 10s, every 4~6 seconds. Now you won't be safe and watching cat videos like you were before, but you can't do that now anyway. You also don't have a 5~6K+ HP pool with zero weakness timer after death.
Outside of SMN AC brokenness people didn't use pets because they were the best damage, they were the safest damage.
No that's not the case, BST strats were the easiest strat for newbies and people that didnt want to get other jobs much, easiest way to play investment to efficiency ratio.
Before and after the nerfs, ranger strats or death strats were safer because the moment your timers are *** up (for call beast) goodbye fight.
If you apply the statement of fully buffed with pet rolls and frailty, you'd be dropping 50-60k razor fangs every 10 seconds.
P.S.: The hp pools you mention are way off of current reality and yes pets have 0 weakness but master has timers unlike smn or pup (sort of for pup, 1 min timer on deus), if something odd happens and you lose 2 pets, goodbye.
Ragnarok.Phuoc said: »
If you apply the statement of fully buffed with pet rolls and frailty, you'd be dropping 50-60k razor fangs every 10 seconds.
I was using a non BiS for those averages, they go up much faster and you, like every other pet user in the game, are vastly overstating your "averages".
It's basically this, players are easier to overbuff then pets. You can stack ridiculous amounts of Haste, Attack, Accuracy, Multi-Attack, Store TP, TP Bonus along with base stats like STR / DEX / VIT while pets are very limited. Pets shine because they are disposable and have massive HP pools, 4~6K is the base HP pool of the various top end pets it's easily available information. If a player dies they lose all their super buffs and suffer a massive penalty for 3~5 minutes. If the pet dies the master keeps all their pet buffs and can resummon immediately or in another 3~5 min.
And people used the BST zerg strat because it was very similar to todays SMN AC zerg method. Pet buffs, Familiar Run-Wild and spam TP moves until the monster stops moving. Ready's charge system lets you spam out 4~5 moves before timers become an issue so multiple BST's could vomit out enough damage, while standing far far away, that the target was dead or mostly dead. Super revit could be used to get all the charge timers back as well as another run-wild use. BST's having to stand close to the target drastically nerfs this method of play, cat videos' can no longer be watched.
Anyhow I'm not arguing the "better" way to play BST, just stating that a fully buffed melee BST will do more total damage then a fully buffed pet BST just because there are many more melee buffs then there are pet buffs and there are several good axe WS's to exploit.
Asura.Saevel said: »
Ragnarok.Phuoc said: »
If you apply the statement of fully buffed with pet rolls and frailty, you'd be dropping 50-60k razor fangs every 10 seconds.
I was using a non BiS for those averages, they go up much faster and you, like every other pet user in the game, are vastly overstating your "averages".
It's basically this, players are easier to overbuff then pets. You can stack ridiculous amounts of Haste, Attack, Accuracy, Multi-Attack, Store TP, TP Bonus along with base stats like STR / DEX / VIT while pets are very limited. Pets shine because they are disposable and have massive HP pools, 4~6K is the base HP pool of the various top end pets it's easily available information. If a player dies they lose all their super buffs and suffer a massive penalty for 3~5 minutes. If the pet dies the master keeps all their pet buffs and can resummon immediately or in another 3~5 min.
And people used the BST zerg strat because it was very similar to todays SMN AC zerg method. Pet buffs, Familiar Run-Wild and spam TP moves until the monster stops moving. Ready's charge system lets you spam out 4~5 moves before timers become an issue so multiple BST's could vomit out enough damage, while standing far far away, that the target was dead or mostly dead. Super revit could be used to get all the charge timers back as well as another run-wild use. BST's having to stand close to the target drastically nerfs this method of play, cat videos' can no longer be watched.
Anyhow I'm not arguing the "better" way to play BST, just stating that a fully buffed melee BST will do more total damage then a fully buffed pet BST just because there are many more melee buffs then there are pet buffs and there are several good axe WS's to exploit.
If you check what i said its basically on buffed pet situations, of course ppl wont drop 50k razor fangs left and right at all times.
Buff wise on an hyperbuffed situation, the only part where the master will win over the pet is on haste and MA because MA can be further enhanced by rolls, att/acc wise they are easy to cap and run wild grants +25% to att/def/acc, sTP wise spur with the right accesories (or 1 skullrender) gives a ton of sTP to the pet as well and tp bonus wise, on a zerg situation where you will unleash, your pet tp is always 3k plus the +60 to all stats (and dont forget unleash with maxed JP grants +40% ready move dmg), not comparable to what you can get on master gear but its there.
I agree pets have good hp pools, are disposable and super revi helps with any pet casualty, im not argueing most of your points because they are true but as a BST, i can tell you on a zerg situation, the moment you are capped on attack and press all the zerg tools BST has the dmg is hilarious, its not just 4 pet charges but ready move > fight macro > ready move > fight macro overlapping animations.
And lastly i agree there's no -set in a stone- way to play BST, you can go melee with aymur/shield (or aymur/good dmg axe) focusing the dmg on the master and have the pet also contribute every 15 secs or just focus on pet scenarios but as of now and with my experience, i never saw a master outparse the pet ever on any situation.
To end, WAR =/= BST.
A fully buffed, well geared bst can vomit out 25-30k ws every 3 seoncds. Compare that to the ready recast timer, the pet is limited by (60k? on the high) every 10 seconds. Do the multiplication and a good bst can spam 90-100k vs 60k for the pet.
And yes, Call Beast recast can be an issue. If you don't have a pet you're useless and dead weight to the party if you can't get in there and melee.
And back to the original topic, that's why I brought up the idea of the shield. You can still sub /nin or dnc/ to get the use of Charmer's Merlin, but when the pet dies you can equip the shield (with fencer and -dt for pet and master) and mix it up.
I don't know any *real* bst that doesn't like to melee. When the pet buff dropped I got depressed because the game became too easy. It wasn't necessary anymore for me to join the fray. But that was the whole idea of being a bst, coming from a normal melee to a hybrid melee. It was like having a dog (a pet :-), a buddy, to melee with. And yes I know I ended that last sentence with a preposition, but that's ok.
Like other real bst, we despised the nerf, because we would love to melee with our pet anyway, but to put such a restriction on us when there was none for years was an absolute slap in the base, and put an unnecessary strain on our strategies.
SE needs to review bst buff and buff the master. What there is now is just ridiculous.
And yes, Call Beast recast can be an issue. If you don't have a pet you're useless and dead weight to the party if you can't get in there and melee.
And back to the original topic, that's why I brought up the idea of the shield. You can still sub /nin or dnc/ to get the use of Charmer's Merlin, but when the pet dies you can equip the shield (with fencer and -dt for pet and master) and mix it up.
I don't know any *real* bst that doesn't like to melee. When the pet buff dropped I got depressed because the game became too easy. It wasn't necessary anymore for me to join the fray. But that was the whole idea of being a bst, coming from a normal melee to a hybrid melee. It was like having a dog (a pet :-), a buddy, to melee with. And yes I know I ended that last sentence with a preposition, but that's ok.
Like other real bst, we despised the nerf, because we would love to melee with our pet anyway, but to put such a restriction on us when there was none for years was an absolute slap in the base, and put an unnecessary strain on our strategies.
SE needs to review bst buff and buff the master. What there is now is just ridiculous.
And even when I don't outparse the pet, sometimes I just want to melee, anyway. Does it matter if the monster is dead in 35 vs 30 seconds?
Shiva.Malthar said: »
A fully buffed, well geared bst can vomit out 25-30k ws every 3 seoncds. Compare that to the ready recast timer, the pet is limited by (60k? on the high) every 10 seconds. Do the multiplication and a good bst can spam 90-100k vs 60k for the pet.
Melee BST easily surpass's pet BST in fully buffed situations, of course melee <other job> will usually surpass melee BST in the exact same situation. Thus we don't see melee BST because well, other jobs do it better.
In my quest to cap CP on all jobs, I'm currently working on BST and have decided to do it the melee way, just cause I can. To this end I've built a bunch of DW melee sets orientated around Aeonic Axe and with proper buffs it's insane. Not as good as me on WAR, SAM, DRK or BLU but still far better then non-AC pets.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Mistral_Axe
Mistral Axe is crazy good as you approach 2K TP, and with Aeonic and Moonshade your looking at 8.8 ~ 10 fTP on first hit and an additional 1.0 hit from off hand. Fencer isn't really that good if your doing melee build because the loss of TP gain from not hitting delay floor (36 DW needed with capped Magic + Gear haste). Aeonic Axe largely gives the same benefit of Fencer without sacrificing TP gain speed, just off hand a Digi with STR / Acc / Atk / MA or Store TP augments. Ruinator and Decimation also put out some really nice damage, especially since BST can use HQ Argosy gear. It can't use Flamma but the Tali'ah manteel +2 is pretty amazing as a TP piece. BST gets a ***ton of +TA gear along with stuff like Sherida Earing and Emicho +1 hands. Use Killer Instinct to give yourself and the entire party a +15% damage bonus against your target, providing it's something you can use the proper pet against. Pet doesn't even have to be alive, just needs to have the right family alignment when the JA goes off.
Fencer builds work better for WS's like Cloud Splitter or Primal, which is assuming some sort of SC setup with a partner. There is a + MAB shield which is half decent, combine with Aeonic Axe and some carefully augmented Valorous and can do 30K or more with both to close a SC doing much more with the potential for a MB. Can even use a pet to open the SC for you or do a MB.
Shiva.Malthar said: »
A fully buffed, well geared bst can vomit out 25-30k ws every 3 seoncds. Compare that to the ready recast timer, the pet is limited by (60k? on the high) every 10 seconds. Do the multiplication and a good bst can spam 90-100k vs 60k for the pet.
And yes, Call Beast recast can be an issue. If you don't have a pet you're useless and dead weight to the party if you can't get in there and melee.
And back to the original topic, that's why I brought up the idea of the shield. You can still sub /nin or dnc/ to get the use of Charmer's Merlin, but when the pet dies you can equip the shield (with fencer and -dt for pet and master) and mix it up.
I don't know any *real* bst that doesn't like to melee. When the pet buff dropped I got depressed because the game became too easy. It wasn't necessary anymore for me to join the fray. But that was the whole idea of being a bst, coming from a normal melee to a hybrid melee. It was like having a dog (a pet :-), a buddy, to melee with. And yes I know I ended that last sentence with a preposition, but that's ok.
Like other real bst, we despised the nerf, because we would love to melee with our pet anyway, but to put such a restriction on us when there was none for years was an absolute slap in the base, and put an unnecessary strain on our strategies.
SE needs to review bst buff and buff the master. What there is now is just ridiculous.
And yes, Call Beast recast can be an issue. If you don't have a pet you're useless and dead weight to the party if you can't get in there and melee.
And back to the original topic, that's why I brought up the idea of the shield. You can still sub /nin or dnc/ to get the use of Charmer's Merlin, but when the pet dies you can equip the shield (with fencer and -dt for pet and master) and mix it up.
I don't know any *real* bst that doesn't like to melee. When the pet buff dropped I got depressed because the game became too easy. It wasn't necessary anymore for me to join the fray. But that was the whole idea of being a bst, coming from a normal melee to a hybrid melee. It was like having a dog (a pet :-), a buddy, to melee with. And yes I know I ended that last sentence with a preposition, but that's ok.
Like other real bst, we despised the nerf, because we would love to melee with our pet anyway, but to put such a restriction on us when there was none for years was an absolute slap in the base, and put an unnecessary strain on our strategies.
SE needs to review bst buff and buff the master. What there is now is just ridiculous.
Well If you compare on a normal situation with the 10 sec restriction and if you can really do 100k dmg as a bst/anything then yes, the master -can- outparse the pet but show me that situation, make a video or something because i cant picture it on my head.
And on a scenario where BST a) does 30k WSs vs BST b) doing unleash shredding the NM, the BST a) is gonna lose but as i said earlier, play the way you want really, nothing is dangerous anymore lol.
Ragnarok.Phuoc said: »
Well If you compare on a normal situation with the 10 sec restriction and if you can really do 100k dmg as a bst/anything then yes, the master -can- outparse the pet but show me that situation, make a video or something because i cant picture it on my head.
Because Samurai's Roll exists.
Your brain isn't comprehending what layering all those buffs does to a melee, especially when combined with the vast level of gear DD's have access too.
Non-SP Standard buff scenario would be
Marcato Honor March
Victory March
Minuet V
Minuet IV / Madrigal II depending on acc requirements
Chaos Roll
Crooked Samurai's Roll
BoG / Ecliptic Geo-Frailty
Indi-Fury / Entrust <something useful>
Protectra V
Shellra V
Boost-STR
Barelement +230 MEVD
Barstatus +230 MEVD?
Killer Instinct +15% Damage
A pet would get
Crooked Beasts Roll
Drachen / Companions Roll
BoG + Ecliptic Frailty
And that's pretty much it. If accuracy is a problem can do Torpor with the Frailty.
If we're going Ham then we'd be using SV, double Crooked and Bolster.
BST has access to almost the exact same gear WAR / DRK (no Flamma / Sulevia or Odysesan), it has plenty of STR, WSD and MA gear to go with several WS's that can exploit TP Bonus, STR stacking and / or Multi-Hit. It has access to high damage Magic WS's like Primal and Cloud Splitter that can be used for SC / MB exploiting. It easily has the toolset, just nobody uses it because other jobs, with the same gear, are simply better at it.
Generic DW TP set
Code
sets.TP.Standard = {ammo="Ginsen",
head="Skormoth mask",neck="Shulmanu collar",ear1="Sherida Earring", ear2="Suppanomimi",
body="Tali'ah manteel +2",hands="Emicho Gauntlets +1",ring1="Epona's Ring",ring2="Hetairoi Ring",
back=DA_Back",waist="Sarissaphoroi belt",legs="Meg. Chausses +2",feet=TP_Feet,}Ruinator set
Code
sets.Ruinator = {ammo="Amar Cluster",
head="Argosy Celata +1",neck="Fotia Gorget",ear1="Sherida earring",ear2="Moonshade earring",
body="Argosy hauberk +1",hands="Argosy mufflers +1",ring1="Epona's ring",ring2="Regal ring",
back=DA_Back,waist="Fotia belt",legs="Argosy breeches +1",feet="Argosy sollerets +1"}The rest look something similar, the Mistral set has STR and WSD in it, the CS / PR sets have MAB Valorous stuff. No matter what you do your not getting pet stats anywhere close to what players can get, they just got a lot of HP and are disposable.
[+]
Since my van damme gifs got mod slapped, I guess a normal post is fine.
This shield idea is dumb. There are no frontline DD that use shield outside of special circumstances (multi-attack drk for example(which was AV era)and I am not counting rangers as front line cuz they arent). Even Warrior who has the most fencer doesnt use it because while you could do 30k wses with fencer, you can do more faster and much more dmg with other options.
What are you fighting that your BST is outdamaging your pet? CP mobs? and its taking 30-35 sec to kill? and you say fully buffed... against what? what does fully buffed mean for you? a fully buffed melee would be bard, geo, cor. (or 2-3 of each of those depending on level of what youre fighting and what buffs you need) a fully buffed BST and pet would require another cor for pet rolls. that is a lot of support for a bst melee and I would feel bad if this is a routine of bringing that much support for a BST melee party. Anything worth needing that much support for... why the hell would you want to be close to the enemy? run in JA, run away rinse repeat every 10 sec. Pet style is just GEO for frailty and Cor for pet buffs. Bothof whom can watch netflix while bst does his thing. If a group is fighting something melee style needing to be fully buffed, youd bring a real DD. and that real DD wouldnt use fencer.
If this is simply because you like to see high WS numbers on fodder or T1s, then to each their own. And I agree its fun to try new things now and then but there is no real case to be made for BST melee when it really matters. BST is meant to use a pet. The pet is the strength of the job. The job, as it is now, is ridiculously strong.
And there are calls to nerf BST because of him
This shield idea is dumb. There are no frontline DD that use shield outside of special circumstances (multi-attack drk for example(which was AV era)and I am not counting rangers as front line cuz they arent). Even Warrior who has the most fencer doesnt use it because while you could do 30k wses with fencer, you can do more faster and much more dmg with other options.
What are you fighting that your BST is outdamaging your pet? CP mobs? and its taking 30-35 sec to kill? and you say fully buffed... against what? what does fully buffed mean for you? a fully buffed melee would be bard, geo, cor. (or 2-3 of each of those depending on level of what youre fighting and what buffs you need) a fully buffed BST and pet would require another cor for pet rolls. that is a lot of support for a bst melee and I would feel bad if this is a routine of bringing that much support for a BST melee party. Anything worth needing that much support for... why the hell would you want to be close to the enemy? run in JA, run away rinse repeat every 10 sec. Pet style is just GEO for frailty and Cor for pet buffs. Bothof whom can watch netflix while bst does his thing. If a group is fighting something melee style needing to be fully buffed, youd bring a real DD. and that real DD wouldnt use fencer.
If this is simply because you like to see high WS numbers on fodder or T1s, then to each their own. And I agree its fun to try new things now and then but there is no real case to be made for BST melee when it really matters. BST is meant to use a pet. The pet is the strength of the job. The job, as it is now, is ridiculously strong.
And there are calls to nerf BST because of him
[+]
Kodaijin said: »
Since my van damme gifs got mod slapped, I guess a normal post is fine.
This shield idea is dumb. There are no frontline DD that use shield outside of special circumstances (multi-attack drk for example(which was AV era)and I am not counting rangers as front line cuz they arent). Even Warrior who has the most fencer doesnt use it because while you could do 30k wses with fencer, you can do more faster and much more dmg with other options.
What are you fighting that your BST is outdamaging your pet? CP mobs? and its taking 30-35 sec to kill? and you say fully buffed... against what? what does fully buffed mean for you? a fully buffed melee would be bard, geo, cor. (or 2-3 of each of those depending on level of what youre fighting and what buffs you need) a fully buffed BST and pet would require another cor for pet rolls. that is a lot of support for a bst melee and I would feel bad if this is a routine of bringing that much support for a BST melee party. Anything worth needing that much support for... why the hell would you want to be close to the enemy? run in JA, run away rinse repeat every 10 sec. Pet style is just GEO for frailty and Cor for pet buffs. Bothof whom can watch netflix while bst does his thing. If a group is fighting something melee style needing to be fully buffed, youd bring a real DD. and that real DD wouldnt use fencer.
If this is simply because you like to see high WS numbers on fodder or T1s, then to each their own. And I agree its fun to try new things now and then but there is no real case to be made for BST melee when it really matters. BST is meant to use a pet. The pet is the strength of the job. The job, as it is now, is ridiculously strong.
And there are calls to nerf BST because of him
This shield idea is dumb. There are no frontline DD that use shield outside of special circumstances (multi-attack drk for example(which was AV era)and I am not counting rangers as front line cuz they arent). Even Warrior who has the most fencer doesnt use it because while you could do 30k wses with fencer, you can do more faster and much more dmg with other options.
What are you fighting that your BST is outdamaging your pet? CP mobs? and its taking 30-35 sec to kill? and you say fully buffed... against what? what does fully buffed mean for you? a fully buffed melee would be bard, geo, cor. (or 2-3 of each of those depending on level of what youre fighting and what buffs you need) a fully buffed BST and pet would require another cor for pet rolls. that is a lot of support for a bst melee and I would feel bad if this is a routine of bringing that much support for a BST melee party. Anything worth needing that much support for... why the hell would you want to be close to the enemy? run in JA, run away rinse repeat every 10 sec. Pet style is just GEO for frailty and Cor for pet buffs. Bothof whom can watch netflix while bst does his thing. If a group is fighting something melee style needing to be fully buffed, youd bring a real DD. and that real DD wouldnt use fencer.
If this is simply because you like to see high WS numbers on fodder or T1s, then to each their own. And I agree its fun to try new things now and then but there is no real case to be made for BST melee when it really matters. BST is meant to use a pet. The pet is the strength of the job. The job, as it is now, is ridiculously strong.
And there are calls to nerf BST because of him
PS:van damme kicks 4 ever.
1 charge moves are only doing 20-30k dmg on average with capped pdif and capped tp. That's really not an insane amount of dmg compared to other buff3d melees just bat needs less support. Even 3 charge moves don't go higher they just tend not to be at the lower end and have better skillchain options
Odin.Drakenv said: »
Kodaijin said: »
Since my van damme gifs got mod slapped, I guess a normal post is fine.
This shield idea is dumb. There are no frontline DD that use shield outside of special circumstances (multi-attack drk for example(which was AV era)and I am not counting rangers as front line cuz they arent). Even Warrior who has the most fencer doesnt use it because while you could do 30k wses with fencer, you can do more faster and much more dmg with other options.
What are you fighting that your BST is outdamaging your pet? CP mobs? and its taking 30-35 sec to kill? and you say fully buffed... against what? what does fully buffed mean for you? a fully buffed melee would be bard, geo, cor. (or 2-3 of each of those depending on level of what youre fighting and what buffs you need) a fully buffed BST and pet would require another cor for pet rolls. that is a lot of support for a bst melee and I would feel bad if this is a routine of bringing that much support for a BST melee party. Anything worth needing that much support for... why the hell would you want to be close to the enemy? run in JA, run away rinse repeat every 10 sec. Pet style is just GEO for frailty and Cor for pet buffs. Bothof whom can watch netflix while bst does his thing. If a group is fighting something melee style needing to be fully buffed, youd bring a real DD. and that real DD wouldnt use fencer.
If this is simply because you like to see high WS numbers on fodder or T1s, then to each their own. And I agree its fun to try new things now and then but there is no real case to be made for BST melee when it really matters. BST is meant to use a pet. The pet is the strength of the job. The job, as it is now, is ridiculously strong.
And there are calls to nerf BST because of him
This shield idea is dumb. There are no frontline DD that use shield outside of special circumstances (multi-attack drk for example(which was AV era)and I am not counting rangers as front line cuz they arent). Even Warrior who has the most fencer doesnt use it because while you could do 30k wses with fencer, you can do more faster and much more dmg with other options.
What are you fighting that your BST is outdamaging your pet? CP mobs? and its taking 30-35 sec to kill? and you say fully buffed... against what? what does fully buffed mean for you? a fully buffed melee would be bard, geo, cor. (or 2-3 of each of those depending on level of what youre fighting and what buffs you need) a fully buffed BST and pet would require another cor for pet rolls. that is a lot of support for a bst melee and I would feel bad if this is a routine of bringing that much support for a BST melee party. Anything worth needing that much support for... why the hell would you want to be close to the enemy? run in JA, run away rinse repeat every 10 sec. Pet style is just GEO for frailty and Cor for pet buffs. Bothof whom can watch netflix while bst does his thing. If a group is fighting something melee style needing to be fully buffed, youd bring a real DD. and that real DD wouldnt use fencer.
If this is simply because you like to see high WS numbers on fodder or T1s, then to each their own. And I agree its fun to try new things now and then but there is no real case to be made for BST melee when it really matters. BST is meant to use a pet. The pet is the strength of the job. The job, as it is now, is ridiculously strong.
And there are calls to nerf BST because of him
PS:van damme kicks 4 ever.
as I recall he was banned from the OF eons ago. anyone who doesn't suckle at SE lovingly all the time tends to be sooner or later.
Shields do offer a princely amount of damage block, which shouldn't be totally ignored. In fact, WARs are now experimenting with shield block sets since the release of relic+3 hands, so it's not totally farfetched to have an axe/shield setup for some players. But like you said, special circumstances and not many people are using that method either.
Asura.Saevel said: »
Ragnarok.Phuoc said: »
Well If you compare on a normal situation with the 10 sec restriction and if you can really do 100k dmg as a bst/anything then yes, the master -can- outparse the pet but show me that situation, make a video or something because i cant picture it on my head.
Because Samurai's Roll exists.
Your brain isn't comprehending what layering all those buffs does to a melee, especially when combined with the vast level of gear DD's have access too.
Non-SP Standard buff scenario would be
Marcato Honor March
Victory March
Minuet V
Minuet IV / Madrigal II depending on acc requirements
Chaos Roll
Crooked Samurai's Roll
BoG / Ecliptic Geo-Frailty
Indi-Fury / Entrust <something useful>
Protectra V
Shellra V
Boost-STR
Barelement +230 MEVD
Barstatus +230 MEVD?
Killer Instinct +15% Damage
A pet would get
Crooked Beasts Roll
Drachen / Companions Roll
BoG + Ecliptic Frailty
And that's pretty much it. If accuracy is a problem can do Torpor with the Frailty.
If we're going Ham then we'd be using SV, double Crooked and Bolster.
BST has access to almost the exact same gear WAR / DRK (no Flamma / Sulevia or Odysesan), it has plenty of STR, WSD and MA gear to go with several WS's that can exploit TP Bonus, STR stacking and / or Multi-Hit. It has access to high damage Magic WS's like Primal and Cloud Splitter that can be used for SC / MB exploiting. It easily has the toolset, just nobody uses it because other jobs, with the same gear, are simply better at it.
Generic DW TP set
Code
sets.TP.Standard = {ammo="Ginsen",
head="Skormoth mask",neck="Shulmanu collar",ear1="Sherida Earring", ear2="Suppanomimi",
body="Tali'ah manteel +2",hands="Emicho Gauntlets +1",ring1="Epona's Ring",ring2="Hetairoi Ring",
back=DA_Back",waist="Sarissaphoroi belt",legs="Meg. Chausses +2",feet=TP_Feet,}Ruinator set
Code
sets.Ruinator = {ammo="Amar Cluster",
head="Argosy Celata +1",neck="Fotia Gorget",ear1="Sherida earring",ear2="Moonshade earring",
body="Argosy hauberk +1",hands="Argosy mufflers +1",ring1="Epona's ring",ring2="Regal ring",
back=DA_Back,waist="Fotia belt",legs="Argosy breeches +1",feet="Argosy sollerets +1"}The rest look something similar, the Mistral set has STR and WSD in it, the CS / PR sets have MAB Valorous stuff. No matter what you do your not getting pet stats anywhere close to what players can get, they just got a lot of HP and are disposable.
My brain "comprehends" everything, i've been blu since day 1 and understand and abuse all the DD buffs, we arent talking about a real DD here, we talking about trying to make the -master- part of beastmaster work as a frontline DD ignoring the pet.
Of all the buffs you list, the attack ones stop mattering once you cap attack (same with acc), i already said the master wins over pet haste wise and for sTP i just mentioned spur exists and can be boosted greatly, would be broken if 1 JA would be better than a roll from a main job lol, for the rest of the buffs they dont matter much defensive wise since the master will have a healer curebombing and for the pet the master can reward and killer instinct gets nerfed on NMs to 2/3 of its actual power.
So we down to 1 bst + cor + geo using pet strat and other BST using a whm brd geo cor bst strat, do you see where the efficiency is here?
As i said, play as you want but bst =/= war, you can play BST as a war killing apex crabs if you want but that's the real use you will get out of it.
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