Are We Hypocrites? (Aeonic SMN Discussion)

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Are We Hypocrites? (Aeonic SMN Discussion)
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 Quetzalcoatl.Senaki
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By Quetzalcoatl.Senaki 2017-11-21 12:35:29
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I've noticed that people seem to dislike the Smn method, or rather, always put down the method whenever people discuss how to do Aeonics. It seems as though people are not happy with using the method, and often refer to it as the "Easy" / "Cheating" method. Ironically, a vast majority of people currently doing aeonics are using this method. I'm still not entirely sure how this method is all that much more cheating than the Bst-method or Blm-death-method used to be prior to the nerfs. So perhaps, are we just hypocrites? Saying something is bad -> then proceeding to exploit it? (I'm guilty of this as well)
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 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-11-21 12:41:14
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bst and blm method was longer than 30 sec fight, or long enough that you did run into a lot more errors (some fights bsts did just as fast but you had to stay 'in range' to do so, aka more error/danger). If it was just using smns to BP every 21 sec, ya that would be challenging, but getting off 12~ bp in a 30 sec window is just a bit broken when its enough dmg with 3 smns to kill virtually anything in the game atm)
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By fonewear 2017-11-21 12:42:00
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Yes you are hypocrites.
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By geigei 2017-11-21 12:42:16
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Yes we are. Also much butthurt.
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By fonewear 2017-11-21 12:43:32
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In before this becomes a ***thread oh wait it already is !
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2017-11-21 12:45:05
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Yes, all humans are hypocrites. This isn't something that's debatable.

Every single human believes in (this thing should be done because) but not if it's detrimental to me in any way.

To end future debate before you even try it;

The entirety of smn: Safety of Rangers with the speed of zerg. That's broken. Regardless of the gear/skill you think is required to pull it off.
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By clearlyamule 2017-11-21 12:50:22
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You can disagree something should exist and still take advantage of it while it does and not be a hypocrite.
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 Shiva.Spynx
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By Shiva.Spynx 2017-11-21 13:02:53
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clearlyamule said: »
You can disagree something should exist and still take advantage of it while it does and not be a hypocrite.
This. People think not-supporters of AC burn are just selfish *** that want everybody else to suffer but the reality is that we just want the game to be challenging and fun again. Since AC burn is currently the only way most ls (including mine) will get aeonics, I will do it even if I recognize it's broken af and would prefer it to be fixed to have more exciting fights.
 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2017-11-21 13:08:00
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Stop disliking what I like, omg!
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By Foxfire 2017-11-21 13:13:05
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You can not agree with something but still benefit from it. People don't inherently want to make their life harder, afaik.
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 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2017-11-21 13:19:33
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i tried it for one Schah just to see the hype and never again so no, i'm not a fuccen noob
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 Fenrir.Wynnia
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By Fenrir.Wynnia 2017-11-21 13:44:26
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Is it efficient? Does it get the job done? Does it kill baby animals while doing it? Then who cares how you do it?
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-11-21 13:50:42
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Fenrir.Wynnia said: »
Is it efficient? Does it get the job done? Does it kill baby animals while doing it? Then who cares how you do it?
I don't think anyone except potentially the most extreme autists is complaining about people using SMN burn. It exists, it's efficient and easy, of course people will use it.

The argument is that it shouldn't exist. It's several orders of magnitude simpler than any other strategy, and also similarly easy to gear for.
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By geigei 2017-11-21 13:50:44
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The real question is why anyone gives a fac how others get their aeonics, i dont see smn's infiltrating your pt's and ac your ***ruining your "fun".
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 Asura.Frod
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By Asura.Frod 2017-11-21 13:56:03
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Quick breakdown.
Schah, avoids/breaks the entire gimmick.
Vinipata, avoids gimmick.
Teles, breaks gimmick, avoids lower hp walls.
Zerde, reliant on proc gimmick, zerg fight anyway, better than blm death prenerf.
Albumen, avoids gimmick.
Oncy, cant be burned, easy anyway.
Erinya, smn required anyway.


Omen: unburnable (mid is but ehhh)
Dynamis d:unburnable.




The only reason so many are butthurt is because the helm nms are tied to aeonic completion. If they weren't, most wouldn't care because the drops largely suck.
 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-11-21 14:08:41
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Well I think its more people gear a job to use it, but the only "hard" events were aeonics to gear for. So its like this. You gear up a top end DNC (w/e dd) for example. However you cannot use said DNC because its not a smn in the fights. However you want the weapon that benefits DNC, an aeonic. So you lv smn to get said weapon, to then have it on a job you still cannot use having said weapon. Meaning your DNC is useless even with an aeonic that you got w/o using dnc.

Thats the wtf circle of logic that makes people mad about smn method. If smn "could" be used, but not required from people then ya, none would care. However at the current state very few will not use the SMN method bc pops are expensive, time is precious, and we are lazy as MMO players because the game has went into ez mode years ago. /shrug.
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 Asura.Frod
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By Asura.Frod 2017-11-21 14:33:46
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Dnc is completely viable as a dd on all but like... zerde. Its just that game mechanics favor a minmax build to clear them
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2017-11-21 14:55:57
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My LS has purposely chose not to SMN burn everything as we want to beat T4s with their gimmicks. Only by doing this, can we figure them out and become a better group for it. But if we were a merc LS making money off Aeonics? Then sure .. SMN burn away, it's quick and easy.

Some players place their time above what makes the game enjoyable .. so they'd rather make 5 Aeonics the easy way, than make one Aeonic dealing with all the gimmicks. My group accepted that it might take longer to get our first Aeonic, but it's more about the journey than the destination.
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By Senaki 2017-11-21 14:59:41
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Cerberus.Kylos said: »
My LS has purposely chose not to SMN burn everything as we want to beat T4s with their gimmicks. Only by doing this, can we figure them out and become a better group for it. But if we were a merc LS making money off Aeonics? Then sure .. SMN burn away, it's quick and easy.

Some players place their time above what makes the game enjoyable .. so they'd rather make 5 Aeonics the easy way, than make one Aeonic dealing with all the gimmicks. My group accepted that it might take longer to get our first Aeonic, but it's more about the journey than the destination.


That's interesting. Which NM are you guys currently working through?
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2017-11-21 15:02:09
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Senaki said: »
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
My LS has purposely chose not to SMN burn everything as we want to beat T4s with their gimmicks. Only by doing this, can we figure them out and become a better group for it. But if we were a merc LS making money off Aeonics? Then sure .. SMN burn away, it's quick and easy.

Some players place their time above what makes the game enjoyable .. so they'd rather make 5 Aeonics the easy way, than make one Aeonic dealing with all the gimmicks. My group accepted that it might take longer to get our first Aeonic, but it's more about the journey than the destination.


That's interesting. Which NM are you guys currently working through?

T4s, you can see our progress in the Cerberus sub-forum. I think the only NM we did burn was Fu, but it's specifically made for pet jobs so it didn't feel bad to do it that way, although I'm sure we could do it without. We've done all the NM in Geas Fete without SMN burning.
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By zaxtiss 2017-11-21 15:04:33
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what makes you think fu was made for pet jobs? i've only done it melee style
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2017-11-21 15:08:40
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zaxtiss said: »
what makes you think fu was made for pet jobs? i've only done it melee style

It drops scales for pet jobs, much like how Kei drops scales for mage jobs, and Gin drops scales for THFs and other light-armored jobs. I didn't say "it's only ever done with pet jobs", I said it was created with a pet setup in mind .. as it drops pet job stuff. Please don't make a mountain out of this, I know full well you don't need to use Summoners to beat it; although it is easier and it's a NM which helps pet jobs get +3 reforged, so why not bring them?
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By zaxtiss 2017-11-21 15:10:53
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yeah i get it now lol sorry guess thats what i get from reading stuff on here after getting up at 12:30am /sadface
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By clearlyamule 2017-11-21 15:11:17
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zaxtiss said: »
what makes you think fu was made for pet jobs? i've only done it melee style
The huge buff absorbing does kind of make it more throw pets at it friendly and the normally lesser ws/move dmg from pets is made up from the fact you are capping dmg. Bet a pup could probably solo it lol. Just like kei's mechanics make it more friendly to magery. But you can always do it another way
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2017-11-21 15:12:50
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zaxtiss said: »
yeah i get it now lol sorry guess thats what i get from reading stuff on here after getting up at 12:30am /sadface

It's cool, but it goes to show that if a group wants to play this game as intended, they can beat all content without resorting to SUMMONER ALL THA THINGS! It's a very boring, and tedious way to play the game. There are other setups which can get the job done, although they are way more dangerous and exciting. Don't want to lose your pop? Well I think people cry too easily .. the pops are not that hard to get.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2017-11-21 15:14:03
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clearlyamule said: »
zaxtiss said: »
what makes you think fu was made for pet jobs? i've only done it melee style
The huge buff absorbing does kind of make it more throw pets at it friendly and the normally lesser ws/move dmg from pets is made up from the fact you are capping dmg. Bet a pup could probably solo it lol. Just like kei's mechanics make it more friendly to magery. But you can always do it another way

Exactly that's all I meant by the Fu comment .. it's highly encouraged, so I figured why not bring our Summoners who love playing the job? They had Summoner geared well before anyone learned how to Astral Conduit burn the hardest content.
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By zaxtiss 2017-11-21 15:15:19
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thats cool i didnt mean for to sound like any kind of trash talking if it sounded like it. :/ hope not.
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2017-11-21 15:15:27
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I think people (myself included) take offense to classifying any omen boss as "geared for xxx strats" based on drops. And if so, why not judge by the body that drops, if we're going to do this? It's not a big deal, agreed, but some people will browse this thread causally, see that line, and then close out other options.

I FIRMLY believe that outside of a small handful of fights, your best strat is what YOUR shell does best.
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2017-11-21 15:18:02
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Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
I think people (myself included) take offense to classifying any omen boss as "geared for xxx strats" based on drops. And if so, why not judge by the body that drops, if we're going to do this? It's not a big deal, agreed, but some people will browse this thread causally, see that line, and then close out other options.

I FIRMLY believe that outside of a small handful of fights, your best strat is what YOUR shell does best.

I did say directly under that comment that we could probably beat Fu easily without pet jobs if we wanted. I never said .. or if anyone misunderstood what I said, I never, ever stated that you NEED to use pet jobs for Fu. The way the NM is .. it's encouraged, but if your group doesn't have Summoners or Puppetmasters or Beastmasters, they need not despair .. as it can be beat with a melee or ranger setup. I can't see how anything I said would offend anyone. I can't understand how anyone casually browsing this forum would somehow misconstrue what I said. I made it pretty clear, at least I thought I did.
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 Shiva.Spynx
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By Shiva.Spynx 2017-11-21 15:18:05
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Fu is the only AC-burn friendly omen boss too as its special moves deals no damage and is only affects by player buffs. Have 1 tank with 3-4 buffs pull and VS it in 30 secs. Of course RNG also works pretty well but enmity can become an issue.
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