PLD/BLU

Is anyone favoring a new /BLU53 spell set for any particular reason?

Is there any improved spell selection for PLD/BLU in a significant way? Any noteworthy job trait combinations?

I added the magic defense bonus trait(Magnetite Cloud+Ice Break)

You can also get Frightful Roar(aoe def-), but landing it even in tons of macc gear is is... eh. Depends on teh mobs I suppose. As an enmity spell, it kind sucks. Great recast(20 sec), but it's VE only. Only 1 CE. So it's basically half of the typical blu enmity spell, and it's the worse half. It also has a slightly faster cast time. But again, meh enmity.

Cold Wave is the only notable spell I'd consider setting, but it's really just another Jettatura.

I'm guessing you mean another Geist Wall? CW and GW have identical hate, identical AoE type, and similar cast time, while Jettatura is quite different.

Also, I think people are overestimating how hard it is to land Frightful Roar on mobs. It's not going to land on everything, no, but there's a decent swath of enemies that it will land on for a small bonus with a good MACC set, and it's AoE for places like Odyssey and Dynamis.

I meant Jettatura because the recast on Cold Wave is 60 seconds, so it's just another spell you can toss out once in a while instead of spam like Geist Wall/Blank Gaze.

Jettatura is 120 second recast, so the 60 second recast Cold Wave is closer to the 30 second Geist Wall than the former in terms of how often you cast it.

Apologies for the necro, but someone actually sent me a /tell in game today asking what spells to use for /BLU tanking and referenced an incorrect thread from 2018. I'm going copy/paste what Martel shared in another thread:

cocoon - Utility
pollen - HP+5
wild oats - HP+10
sheep song - AoE enmity/Auto-regen(1/2)/HP+5
healing breeze - Auto-regen(2/2)/HP+5
soporific - AoE Enmity
screwdriver - HP+10/VIT+1
blank gaze - Single Target spammable enmity
stinking gas - AoE enmity(Slower cast time)
geist wall - AoE Enmity(Use first, lowest recast)
jettatura - Conal enmity
ML 10+
magnetite cloud - MDB trait(1/2)
ice break - MDB trait(2/2)

Separate from the above, I have also seen people use these spells but the trait offerings are meager:

Stinking Gas
Bludgeon
Head Butt
Bomb Toss

Are you accounting for mastery Felgar? I’m sub BlU53 now. I’m wondering if any of the level 50-53 spells might be more suitable for maintaining hate.

There are no decent enmity spells from lvl 50~59 BLU.

I should think as master levels get to 45, pld would rarely if ever want /blu anymore. pld/run for foil and all the other great stuff(barspells, runes, vallation valliance, pflug, blink, stoneskin, aquaveil, mdb3, swordplay whew!).

run fencer would still want /blu for autorefresh and magic fruit. which pld wouldn't need.

Depends on the content though. Banishga being your only way to aoe tag enemies while also waking them up can be a bit of a bummer, depending what you're doing.

Didnt someone here do the math on VE/CE over time with /blu vs /run and the math come out favoring /blu still? Granted, that considers perfect timing with casting etc but still.

Just cast cure on whoever slept the mobs?

Think if you have enough mobs in range and can consistently spam aoes itll win out overtime, but that's more time spent in sird/less +enmity set, requires everything to be in blu's tiny aoe, and at least to me just generally more annoying vs the simpler banishga/cure sleeper tag and spam foil/JAs. Plus all the other perks that /run provides through its spells/traits

Sure, but I don't generally like to rely on my sleeper to tag mobs before I can stabilize them and their position. Think of Dynamis, for example:
BLU: cast an aoe on any target in the pack, get hate on everything
RUN: cast banishga on everything, you wake them up OR wait for the sleeper, then cast cure on them, then cast foil.

Either you're risking waking up mobs with an extremely low-enmity move then casting another spell, or you're waiting on your sleeper to tag things first then doing 2 casts to get hate. Meanwhile your melee have already started dragging ***all over the place and your WHM has pulled hate by curing them, or whatever. And if you have 2+ statues, they're beating on your sleeper and/or WHM while you're busy doing all this nonsense.

I'm not saying /RUN isn't great, I'm sure it's the de-facto subjob once you've botted ML45, but I think there are scenarios where I'd prefer to just have an aoe to tag mobs with decent threat in an aoe, like when there are unsleepable mobs mixed with sleepable, or when the pace of the combat is faster than "lemme cast 2-3 spells RQ before you go murdering things"

You literally used the words "while also waking them up" implying the mobs have already been controlled and slept. But hey, if you need to "stabilize the mobs and their position", banishga before the sleeper sleeps them.

You're just coming up with excuses.

Be kind and remind your healers to keep blink, stoneskin and aquaveil up. They will need it.

How much enmity do you think Banishga pulls? Probably less than sleepga/horde lullaby, so all those mobs are going to bop your sleeper. Or if the WHM cast a cure on you or the sleeper, or the melee whacked them once, they're going to go wherever they feel like going.

Sleepga -> Banishga -> mobs hit whoever they want for 2 seconds -> foil. Sure, on a small pull it's not a big deal, but if you've got like 3-5 statues with ~15 mobs, good luck WHM and BRD!

Or Banishga -> WHM cures you -> 15 mobs hit your WHM -> Foil.

>>Cant cast banishga because the mobs will wake up
>>Cant cast sleepga/horde until the pld tags every mob
>>Cant cure the sleeper because they wont sleep the mobs until the pld has tagged everything
>>loop adinfinitum

Ok

Better just stand around doing nothing until you can verify the mobs are all slept in a high latency environment with 25 of them running around, rather than beginning your cast immediately because it doesn't matter if they're slept or not.

You can make a theoretical case for still using /BLU, it's certainly less practical in most situations though.

Well, since the content is pretty much done, and we know all the fights, instead of hypotheticals... it best to just say which fight you think /blu is better for.

Everything I've seen so far has been dynamis. because thats the only content with lots of mobs to control in a single pull.. (omen, no, odc maybe, sortie maybe, but you still get the pull, so no)

Dynamis is the only content where all the mobs spawn at once chasing somebody. maybe ambuscade... (shoot was it last month ambuscade w/ yagudo that even screwing up the sleep, there was no trouble tanking everything for the whole fight... Mlvl power creep + gear makes ambuscade alot easier)

I'm not sure how others are pulling in dynamis that they need stuff slept really. I mean the only one sleeping stuff in dynamis when I pull is me.. when I use shockwave while tanking on rune fencer. but thats after I have them all around me and shockwave claims them and sleeps them at same time.

do you pull with something other than your tank? I guess if the pop and pld and sleeper cast at same time, then sleeper will cast faster than pld... but is it hard to get them to sleep after pld has cast banishga? That seems really easy to me... but again I don't see need to sleep stuff in dynamis unless you have more than 2 statues... and even then, you should widdle them down pretty fast, or are you going in w/ 3 ppl onry? or single party only?

See my examples above. Dynamis is the only content which springs to mind right now, but frankly anywhere you're tagging multiple enemies. I don't use PLD in Sortie, but that could be a place, Omen we usually bring a tank for boss runs so in there I routinely gather loads of mobs, though the stakes are much lower.

Here's the scenario for PLD/BLU: You're super tanking everything, no chance for anyone to pull off you (COR, BRD, WHM or whoever is buffing/curing you). Then as soon as you've finished casting your AOE, you have hate and it will take a reasonable amount of effort for someone to pull off you
PLD/RUN: You're super tanking everything. Then you cast Banishga on the mobs. Any time after this, but before you finish casting Foil, anyone who blows out a candle will pull hate off you, on every single mob you just hit with Banishga. Then you cast Foil and you've got similar (maybe more) hate than the /BLU guy.

If the THF casts sleepga on that pile of mobs, they could get murdered. If the WHM cures you, they can get murdered. If the BRD or BLM cast sleepga before your Banishga, they can get murdered.

Even outside of the sleeping/waking concerns, casting a low-enmity spell on a giant pile on mobs is a recipe for disaster.

On the other hand, you can always use some JA after Banishga to avoid the 2s delay, but then you have to ration out a JA for every pull.

I'm not saying /RUN is bad, I've already said above that it's the definitive sub IMHO once you get to that ML, however I think there are still scenarios (dynamis, omen) where I, personally, would prefer to have /BLU than /RUN. It feels a lot more controlled to me to go straight from supertanking -> hate on everything you touched, as opposed to supertanking -> tag mobs -> hate on mobs.

This is a skill issue. You sounding like Creed over here man

“What if? What if? What if?”

Couldn't the PLD just heal the bard after it sleeps everything? That would put him on the entire pack's hate list.

ok, so you are worried about the couple seconds between banishga and the next spell and you refuse to discipline the rest of the party.

I'm sorry I have no sympathy for such a situation. I've had that while run tanking all the time too. cuz my normal is to do exactly that. Grab w/ aoe spell, maybe poisonga if i'm /drk and mobs are far away, and then do foil. but those 2 seconds anyone who is too dumb, impatient or self-centered enough to get hate and die, deserves to die.

This isn't a tank issue, its a party issue. Besides, its only really a problem if they grab them while you are in the supertanking phase of the pull and before the tagging phase of the pull. as long as you tag them, they are coming back to you when you use foil or a ja. shoot, just cure the idiot who pulled it away. if they die before then, its their own fault for being stupid.

But really, you have valliance, vallation, swordplay and pflug, to rotate thru.. those are really easy to rotate thru and that doesn't even touch pld ja's. you only need to pop a ja IF someone was supremely stupid... and if they are stupid enough to KEEP doing it when you have 4~6 ja timers down... You're party is better off w/ them dead. edit: forgot to mention Swip: 90s recast, for aoe claim!

Sure, you are set in your ways on /blu and prefer it. thats fine /blu is a great support job for pld group tanking.

Its just blatently obvious that mlvl 45+ /run is WAY BETTER.

But the sleepers cant do that because theyre gonna get bopped if theres a resist.

Idk hes the one making the circular argument. It makes no sense.

Sorry, you wanna quote where I said something about a resist?

I said: Horde Lullaby will give more enmity than a Banishga for 7 damage. Horde Lullaby -> Banishga means anything you just Banishga'd will attack the BRD. Or if you Banishga, then anyone targets you with anything, everything you just Banishga'd will attack the person who just buffed or cured you.

For example: I just went to Reisenjima, cast Horde Lullaby II on a cricket with BRD, then cast Banishga on my PLD. The cricket walked over to my BRD, hit it 4 times, then came to PLD. Imagine that cricket was 20 dynamis mobs and you have the scenario I'm referring to. Never mind anything about resists.

Look, if you plan with your team that you're going to pull the statue(s), the BRD is going to sleep everything, then you're going to cure them, then foil, then everyone can engage with the mobs, that's fine. But don't try to pretend that's worlds better than walking up to the mobs, casting an aoe, and you're done.

But as I said earlier, it depends on the scenario. For single-target tanking, /RUN offers a whole lot that /BLU doesn't, especially on mobs with magic damage. All I'm saying, and have been all along, is that it's more complicated than one > the other, and you need to pick the appropriate SJ for the content you're doing. I personally think that /RUN, especially with ML45, has a nice place for PLD tanking, but I don't think it's a 1-for-1 replacement for all content with no downsides.

so the bard did sleep everything??

/ma cure bard

Now pld is on every mobs hate list, and nothing woke up. Its not that *** complex. This is a skill issue if youre insisting on using banishga to get on every mobs hate list after the bard has slept everything. Its exactly what Xilkk said: its a group issue.

And thus spake thy true and valiant Paladin.

"I'm the greatest, I even sub RUN, and if you die because you got hate, that's your fault.".

Are you reading anything I'm typing?



I acknowledged this as an option ages ago. It's just slower and less efficient than the /BLU strategy. Oh, and involves the first person tagging unsleepable enemies being the BRD, and not the tank. But I guess it's way better because then you have runes, to resist one element of nukes.