Mes'yohi Haubergeon

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Mes'yohi Haubergeon
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2014-12-17 19:31:23
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If a GEO being in range is a concern, any non-tank being in range should be as well. They're just as, if not more durable than whatever DD you have smacking away

They also indirectly contribute to MP efficiency by giving your WHM more HP to restore with Curaga
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 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-12-17 19:32:16
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Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
If a GEO being in range is a concern, any non-tank being in range should be as well. They're just as, if not more durable than whatever DD you have smacking away

They also indirectly contribute to MP efficiency by giving your WHM more HP to restore with Curaga

Exactly this~ its a few minute fight / zerg the GEO would re call Luapons like what, 2 times maybe 3... Really shouldn't be an issue.
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-12-17 19:33:15
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Quetzalcoatl.Valli said: »

You run when you see him start it? you just have to be at max distance before he bothers, not out of range. Besides it could easily be accounted to Lag and you're actually running far too late.

All the times we tried it w/ RNGs and I'd be @ 12 plus > pull hate > I'd be actively already moving away when hit with lightblade from 12-15+ max damage every time. enough to OS even through ohshit set.

I don't know what to tell you it works for everyone in my groups, it works for other people who've agreed on this forum... maybe SE just hates you?
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By Giaden 2014-12-17 19:33:21
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Astral flow typically doesn't last the whole fight, once it went down, Geo would probably get one shotted.
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-12-17 19:34:04
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Giaden said: »
Astral flow typically doesn't last the whole fight, once it went down, Geo would probably get one shotted.


GEO have more PDT and Defence than a SAM, if they get one shotted the GEO is geared inappropriately.
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By Giaden 2014-12-17 20:09:42
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I doubt Geo has more Def then a sam, even properly geared Geo, But then again I'm not a Geo, nor have I ever geared Geo. But on VD alone, Sams get one shotted by AoE occasionally when Astral Flow goes down. I just feel that it would a large chance that if a Geo went down in that type of fight, It could mean a larger chance at a loss.
Since Sam has Yagi, and that basically gives it a huge boost against its Aoe and Light blade it tends to be a safety net.
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By Lakshmi.Eyrhika 2014-12-17 20:20:05
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Giaden said: »
I doubt Geo has more Def then a sam, even properly geared Geo, But then again I'm not a Geo, nor have I ever geared Geo. But on VD alone, Sams get one shotted by AoE occasionally when Astral Flow goes down. I just feel that it would a large chance that if a Geo went down in that type of fight, It could mean a larger chance at a loss.
Since Sam has Yagi, and that basically gives it a huge boost against its Aoe and Light blade it tends to be a safety net.

GEO can idle in a lot of damage taken gear, and if /whm or /rdm self cure. If a SAM sits in DT gear they gimp their damage output
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-12-17 20:34:01
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Giaden said: »
I doubt Geo has more Def then a sam, even properly geared Geo, But then again I'm not a Geo, nor have I ever geared Geo. But on VD alone, Sams get one shotted by AoE occasionally when Astral Flow goes down. I just feel that it would a large chance that if a Geo went down in that type of fight, It could mean a larger chance at a loss.
Since Sam has Yagi, and that basically gives it a huge boost against its Aoe and Light blade it tends to be a safety net.

I do't care if you doubt it's a well known fact.

Lets compare average SAM has 840 Defense?

Head~ 98 Defence
Body ~ 130
hand ~84
legs ~ 108
Feet ~ 67 ~

487 from armor alone for 5 slots.

179 basic (using my whm as guide this is an estimated value)

666 Defense before protect, my WHM is 661~

Protect 5 881 + 220 Defense~

SO saying around equal if not higher than what WHM has access to ~

Then full PDT/MDT/DT/Meva ~ thats 40 more defense than a SAM before you factor in Berserk.

I'm sorry if your GEO's dont use DT sets, but then that's their fault.
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By Asura.Loire 2014-12-17 20:58:00
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Giaden said: »
We do D and VD. Though we have a cor and 2 bards that prebuff. Going in set up is
Whm/rdm
Sam/warX4
Smn

1)Pre buffs outside. (Difficult can be done with 1 brd and two hour songs, but we have extra brds and cors.)
2)Drop Prebuffers, pick up your whm and Smn.
3)Go in; whm and smn put up buffs.(I like to put up extra buffs from whm and smn to help the real buffs from not getting dispelled.)
4)Smn Astral Flows ~ DDs go to town.
5)During the fight; When Astral drops, its best to have Sams pop all two hours(usually for us its around 40%) During this time, Smn pop Astral Cond, and basically stun lock nm with Ramuh.
6)Rinse and repeat till you get drops...

VD is done typically with max buffs, 2 brds with Ghorns, 3 songs, and one cor with rolls.
We typically use 4 sam/wars, we have done D. with mnks, wars and even thfs, but Sams typically have a bit more of a safety net with Yagi.
There are other ways to do the fight and I know people who get bodies off of Normal, but we have never had much luck with normal drops. The fight is stupid as it is (mainly because of hate erases)and I really don't blame anyone for buying this body.
Replace the sams with war x3 (MS Brazen) and put in a thf and you can do VD with the buffs you needed for D, have the whm do asylum after they pull it in with dia II, and the fight will be over before PD wears.
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 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-12-17 21:17:24
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Asura.Loire said: »
Giaden said: »
We do D and VD. Though we have a cor and 2 bards that prebuff. Going in set up is
Whm/rdm
Sam/warX4
Smn

1)Pre buffs outside. (Difficult can be done with 1 brd and two hour songs, but we have extra brds and cors.)
2)Drop Prebuffers, pick up your whm and Smn.
3)Go in; whm and smn put up buffs.(I like to put up extra buffs from whm and smn to help the real buffs from not getting dispelled.)
4)Smn Astral Flows ~ DDs go to town.
5)During the fight; When Astral drops, its best to have Sams pop all two hours(usually for us its around 40%) During this time, Smn pop Astral Cond, and basically stun lock nm with Ramuh.
6)Rinse and repeat till you get drops...

VD is done typically with max buffs, 2 brds with Ghorns, 3 songs, and one cor with rolls.
We typically use 4 sam/wars, we have done D. with mnks, wars and even thfs, but Sams typically have a bit more of a safety net with Yagi.
There are other ways to do the fight and I know people who get bodies off of Normal, but we have never had much luck with normal drops. The fight is stupid as it is (mainly because of hate erases)and I really don't blame anyone for buying this body.
Replace the sams with war x3 (MS Brazen) and put in a thf and you can do VD with the buffs you needed for D, have the whm do asylum after they pull it in with dia II, and the fight will be over before PD wears.

I guess issue though is everyone band wagoned SAM not WAR :/
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 Asura.Loire
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By Asura.Loire 2014-12-17 21:24:54
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Cerberus.Conagh said: »
Asura.Loire said: »
Giaden said: »
We do D and VD. Though we have a cor and 2 bards that prebuff. Going in set up is
Whm/rdm
Sam/warX4
Smn

1)Pre buffs outside. (Difficult can be done with 1 brd and two hour songs, but we have extra brds and cors.)
2)Drop Prebuffers, pick up your whm and Smn.
3)Go in; whm and smn put up buffs.(I like to put up extra buffs from whm and smn to help the real buffs from not getting dispelled.)
4)Smn Astral Flows ~ DDs go to town.
5)During the fight; When Astral drops, its best to have Sams pop all two hours(usually for us its around 40%) During this time, Smn pop Astral Cond, and basically stun lock nm with Ramuh.
6)Rinse and repeat till you get drops...

VD is done typically with max buffs, 2 brds with Ghorns, 3 songs, and one cor with rolls.
We typically use 4 sam/wars, we have done D. with mnks, wars and even thfs, but Sams typically have a bit more of a safety net with Yagi.
There are other ways to do the fight and I know people who get bodies off of Normal, but we have never had much luck with normal drops. The fight is stupid as it is (mainly because of hate erases)and I really don't blame anyone for buying this body.
Replace the sams with war x3 (MS Brazen) and put in a thf and you can do VD with the buffs you needed for D, have the whm do asylum after they pull it in with dia II, and the fight will be over before PD wears.

I guess issue though is everyone band wagoned SAM not WAR :/
Trick is to upkeep all your major jobs, cause who knows what the next bandwagon is going to be.

And cause we all love epeen
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By Giaden 2014-12-17 23:37:53
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It's much easier to find a properly geared Sam then it is to find a decently geared War these days. Granted both do just fine. (especially during a Zerg fight.) That's not my point. My point was Sam X4 is simple, applied with Yagi its almost fool proof.

All I was trying to say was:
Any sam w/ Yagi > worrying about getting a DD to swap to -dt and/or a geo w/ a pdt/mdt in today's content.*

*You're right. A decently geared -dt geo would do just fine with any set of DDs. As I said earlier, I'm not a geo, and the small experience I've had with them is fulltime af/relic. I have personally yet to come across one that takes the job srsly enough to be considered a "full time" geo with max -dt gear.



TLDR; Easy button win: outside buffs + Sam x4 and Whm + PD = win.

Oh noes! 3:36 clear time! It took forever!
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By Quetzalcoatl.Taberif 2014-12-18 00:03:34
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we do VD all the time, our strat is make it dead before we are the dead.

PS, kill glowy things if not zerging
if zerging PD.
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By Nyruul 2014-12-18 03:08:21
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Cerberus.Conagh said: »
Giaden said: »
I doubt Geo has more Def then a sam, even properly geared Geo, But then again I'm not a Geo, nor have I ever geared Geo. But on VD alone, Sams get one shotted by AoE occasionally when Astral Flow goes down. I just feel that it would a large chance that if a Geo went down in that type of fight, It could mean a larger chance at a loss.
Since Sam has Yagi, and that basically gives it a huge boost against its Aoe and Light blade it tends to be a safety net.

I do't care if you doubt it's a well known fact.

Lets compare average SAM has 840 Defense?

Head~ 98 Defence
Body ~ 130
hand ~84
legs ~ 108
Feet ~ 67 ~

487 from armor alone for 5 slots.

179 basic (using my whm as guide this is an estimated value)

666 Defense before protect, my WHM is 661~

Protect 5 881 + 220 Defense~

SO saying around equal if not higher than what WHM has access to ~

Then full PDT/MDT/DT/Meva ~ thats 40 more defense than a SAM before you factor in Berserk.

I'm sorry if your GEO's dont use DT sets, but then that's their fault.

I hope you are not trying to say DT is added on top of PDT and MDT..


Both jobs have access to cap PDT/MDT and a decent SAM is going to swap into an appropriate set before a big hit.

Saying a light armor mage has access to more defense than a medium/heavy armor DD seems bold, but I'm not going to dig into gear defense totals lol. However I will do this...

ItemSet 316322

Edit:put in my own TP hybrid PDT/MDT set
ItemSet 331376

SAM has more def in that set both cap pdt/mdt.

I also think its obvious VIT/base defense naked SAM > GEO

Both can also easily cap MDT but GEO has more MDB available

Edit: Fixed SAM set (also emit harness +1 can be thrown in there, there is also prob some other better acc pcs like lith cap)
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-12-18 08:05:39
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Giaden said: »
Oh noes! 3:36 clear time! It took forever!
i realize you only came here to brag about how great you are and ***on everyone else's strategy, but can do VD in under 2:00 with less outside buffs than you bring if your SAMs don't suck

and geo is perfectly fine even on VD, hell you don't even need outside buffs if you have mythics.. maybe was worth being picky about setup before the ws adjustment, now it's just a matter of having people with semi-decent gear that aren't afk

geo set should also include respite cloak, you can cap pdt with terras/twilight/dring/patricius/umbra/1 hagondes or path C artsieq hose, gain a few def 60 hp and a refresh tic(not that it matters, great wheel won't one shot a sam in full DD gear with berserk up as long as you use 119 ***)
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By Giaden 2014-12-18 08:34:20
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Quote:
i realize you only came here to brag about how great you are and ***on everyone else's strategy, but can do VD in under 2:00 with less outside buffs than you bring if your SAMs don't suck
Was never ment to brag about anything, as I stated before, this was a strat we used and it got the job done with little to no effort. Also stated this earlier if you read the full post:
Quote:
There are other ways to do the fight and I know people who get bodies off of Normal, but we have never had much luck with normal drops. The fight is stupid as it is (mainly because of hate erases)and I really don't blame anyone for buying this body.
Quote:
I doubt Geo has more Def then a sam, even properly geared Geo, But then again I'm not a Geo, nor have I ever geared Geo.
I was just stating what I know. Get off your high horse and read everything before you jump down someone's throat over something silly as someone giving out a strat that works for them.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-12-18 08:43:58
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Giaden said: »
Astral flow typically doesn't last the whole fight, once it went down, Geo would probably get one shotted.
Giaden said: »
I doubt Geo has more Def then a sam, even properly geared Geo, But then again I'm not a Geo, nor have I ever geared Geo. But on VD alone, Sams get one shotted by AoE occasionally when Astral Flow goes down. I just feel that it would a large chance that if a Geo went down in that type of fight, It could mean a larger chance at a loss.
Since Sam has Yagi, and that basically gives it a huge boost against its Aoe and Light blade it tends to be a safety net.
Giaden said: »
It's much easier to find a properly geared Sam then it is to find a decently geared War these days.
you gave out your 'strategy' on the first page, you spent the second page trying to defend it as the only reasonable way to get it done

player buffs have effectively nerfed it into the ground, you can do vd with no outside players, you can bring drk and drg as a dd, you can do whatever you want as long as you have a general setup and your players are geared half-decently
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By Siren.Sieha 2014-12-18 08:52:11
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It doesnt make much sense to me. you all are going crazy over finishing it quickly however you use outside buffers and PD. that doesnt speak much to the merit of the ability of the players, just the fact that they have mules or suckers to buff them.

I'd rather see brag about clear time that didnt include PD and outside buffs.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Waffless 2014-12-18 08:58:41
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Giaden said: »
It's much easier to find a properly geared Sam then it is to find a decently geared War these days. Granted both do just fine. (especially during a Zerg fight.) That's not my point. My point was Sam X4 is simple, applied with Yagi its almost fool proof.

All I was trying to say was:
Any sam w/ Yagi > worrying about getting a DD to swap to -dt and/or a geo w/ a pdt/mdt in today's content.*

*You're right. A decently geared -dt geo would do just fine with any set of DDs. As I said earlier, I'm not a geo, and the small experience I've had with them is fulltime af/relic. I have personally yet to come across one that takes the job srsly enough to be considered a "full time" geo with max -dt gear.



TLDR; Easy button win: outside buffs + Sam x4 and Whm + PD = win.

Oh noes! 3:36 clear time! It took forever!



Well except for mine, which is pretty much 1/2 of the only geo's we take..and I have max pdt/mdt sets, which are better than yours are sugar tlts ;) edit, buy body from pillowtalkkkk
 Quetzalcoatl.Waffless
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By Quetzalcoatl.Waffless 2014-12-18 09:00:27
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Siren.Sieha said: »
It doesnt make much sense to me. you all are going crazy over finishing it quickly however you use outside buffers and PD. that doesnt speak much to the merit of the ability of the players, just the fact that they have mules or suckers to buff them.

I'd rather see brag about clear time that didnt include PD and outside buffs.

Hmm suckers huh?, I get to afk outside and not use merits and get drops, seems legit.
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By Giaden 2014-12-18 09:18:53
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I'll start off by saying I'm sorry if everyone thought that I was implying that this strat I suggested was the only strat out there.
There are other strats w/ and w/o zerg and outside buffs.
A good strat w/o outside buffs I would like to see in action. I've tried other starts with rangers, wars, blues ect.. still have yet to see a really efficient one.
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By Siren.Sieha 2014-12-18 09:53:51
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Quetzalcoatl.Waffless said: »
Siren.Sieha said: »
It doesnt make much sense to me. you all are going crazy over finishing it quickly however you use outside buffers and PD. that doesnt speak much to the merit of the ability of the players, just the fact that they have mules or suckers to buff them.

I'd rather see brag about clear time that didnt include PD and outside buffs.

Hmm suckers huh?, I get to afk outside and not use merits and get drops, seems legit.


Around here they dont usually get drops, unless its some weird person that transferred to siren.
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-12-18 16:40:52
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Giaden said: »
I'll start off by saying I'm sorry if everyone thought that I was implying that this strat I suggested was the only strat out there.
There are other strats w/ and w/o zerg and outside buffs.
A good strat w/o outside buffs I would like to see in action. I've tried other starts with rangers, wars, blues ect.. still have yet to see a really efficient one.

No need to apologize for it! But a GEO seriously shouldn't have any issues with PDT / MDT or DT builds (You should try to balance this if not cap all together either individually or collectively ie D ring for everything!).

Yes a SAM using a full DT set has more Defence available, however sams are not using MDT/DT/PDt sets whlie Full attack meleeing, and are likely to get one shotted if this attack lands, the DD's are 99% of the time never using PDT as they're Zerging, Zergs by nature don't use PDT so yes a SAM going all out would use DPS sets, so a GEO using "Normal Idle" which would be a Turtle set so to speak has more defense and MDT/PDT values than the SAM trying to do their job.
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By Nyruul 2014-12-18 17:08:21
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That's a hybrid TP set I posted(I need reworking for decent enough acc on a VD stellar though)... Also you seem to know a lot about gearswap so figure out the rest, cause I already said it once.

Edit: Don't get me wrong though. I agree GEO can survive in there.
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By Lakshmi.Eyrhika 2014-12-18 17:32:58
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Well, if the GEO wants to tank it up even more can pop some defense food
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 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-12-18 17:35:09
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Nyruul said: »
That's a hybrid TP set I posted(I need reworking for decent enough acc on a VD stellar though)... Also you seem to know a lot about gearswap so figure out the rest, cause I already said it once.

Edit: Don't get me wrong though. I agree GEO can survive in there.

The point was, that a GEO basically full times that set so even if "hey Surprise lag spike" GEO shouldn't get one shotted as they can stand further away using Indi (for debuff) and Geo for Buff keeping DD's just inside bubble.

The Majority of DD's won't use a Hybrid set on this.

However people seem to be missing the point, if you are using PD, the GEO won't die and the DPS bonus a GEO adds to 3 SAM's should kill this on VD in under 2 minutes easily, so why were so concerned about GEO dieing is a little beyond me (SAM Sp2 is not guaranteed invincible button either so it's still a chance)
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By Nyruul 2014-12-18 18:01:05
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Cerberus.Conagh said: »
GEO have more PDT and Defence than a SAM

Before you say anything...

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By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-12-18 18:34:19
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Nyruul said: »
Cerberus.Conagh said: »
GEO have more PDT and Defence than a SAM

Before you say anything...


It does, because what sam uses that Hybrid set as "standard" compared to a GEO who should use a Pet/idle set as Standard.

You're taking things out of context (granted you pulled me on a Technicality however it should be abundantly obvious to anyone that the way you play GEO and SAM are not the same.) point is still valid.

Go troll someone else.
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By Nyruul 2014-12-18 19:02:20
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I play BRD a lot, my idle set is cap PDT/MDT. I've been one shotted in my idle set when SAMs have lived. Good SAMs anticipate attacks.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Jezz 2014-12-18 19:16:59
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Nyruul said: »
I play BRD a lot, my idle set is cap PDT/MDT. I've been one shotted in my idle set when SAMs have lived. Good SAMs anticipate attacks.

Yes but, to be fair.. you're a shitty brd....
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