1-5 + Tojil Failing

Hello folks

So I've been running a couple delve runs lately with LS members, and we're having trouble. Looking for an /assist on how Morimar Delve works. Here's what we've been doing so far.

Party setup is SAM MNK DRG (all JSE 119s) BRD WHM SCH.

Matamata is never trouble, we do a physical kill on it by having the MNK punch with formless strikes and the SCH nuke for 6 TP moves then it goes down pretty quick. Raptor we just attempt to not SC on but for the most part just smack it, it dies. Still haven't figured out how to remove the Eft's poison aura or how to weaken it, but when we can silence it we don't have any problems with it. Peiste can be annoying, but usually isn't a problem as long as we can keep it blinded. Kurma is usually where we seem to run into trouble. My understanding is you full attack and hope it doesn't use Tortoise Song, but is there anything else to do here? Some people say Magic Burst nukes on it, is this correct? Also is there anything in particular to do against the eft to remove the annoying poison aura? Tojil might also be a problem, but I'm not worried about him until we can actually do the Tier 1-5s and have enough time to take him down. Any help would be appreciated.

On Kurma it's just a matter of reapplying songs(specifically marches) and keeping haste on all your DDs. He'll fall over quickly enough. Stun Tetsudo Tremor and have your bard dispel Harden Shell asap. If your bard is getting resists then have them upgrade their gear.

You're looking at the eft and Kurma wrong for the most part.

You can ignore the poison aura, and mitigate the damage it does over time by using Regen V from the scholar. Beyond that, it's just a "beat it 'til it's dead" and move on.

Could shave 30-45 seconds off matamata by going in after the 5th TP move, and with proper ilevel gear, and pdt sets, rip that raptor a new one and not worry if you cause a skill chain or not. Just don't do any unnecessary magic damage like dia or bio.

All Tortoise Song really does is reset it's pdt and mdt values.

Dispel Harden Shell as it pops up, and hope it uses Tortoise Stomp or other TP moves that weaken it's pdt multiplier. It really helps if you have a capable nuker for Kurma when DD's notice it's PDT sky-rocket, so you at least have a heavy source of damage, otherwise the sch should be working on stunning Testudo Tremor.

Honestly, as much as I love DRG, I'm not sure if it's the best fit for Morimar Basalt Fields Delve. Yeah it's nice for Angon and tojil's piercing weakness phase, but so is sam with Apex Arrow or a stardiver set. If the DRG has another heavy DD, like war, efficiently geared to the same, or higher standards, that would be more beneficial.

If you can't do 5NMs like that, you have way bigger fish to fry before you consider attempting tojil. Can't see what you're doing wrong without seeing how your people play/gear, but you can clear 1-5 with loads of time to spare with just mnk brd whm.

mata: you already understand
raptor:impact it at start with ES(sch) go all out melees
eft:impact it and nuke it(go all out melees as well)

peiste: blind and impact it sch use apamajas 2 for stun with marches
Kurma:ES impact nuke it down and go bananas. dispel harden shells

tojil: learn its 25% phases each melee go bananas during "their phase"
sch stun and nuke between stuns to help with removing aura

ideal setup is:
mnk/RUN mnk/RUN othermelee brd whm sch

Thank you all for your quick responses!


I am the Bard, and I only occasionally get resists, for the most part I can land Finale on him just fine.


Its mostly just friends I roll with and his favourite job is DRG, so that's why he plays it. I'm sure there are other jobs that fit better but atm we're just going with what we have.



When we do get through 1-5, we usually have about 10 minutes left. What would you say is a standard amount of time to allot to rebuffing/pulling/killing Tojil?

Going with friends is fine, but keep in mind, going in and not meeting the group objective can be sour grapes for everyone, especially when you come to a forum for advice.

change some things up and get some wins, change back and have fun, and work winning into it.

you should be getting to tojil with 25min+ left if youre doing it right

Well my opinion on it is that there is nothing wrong with failing a run as long as you're learning from mistakes. Price for a pop is 50k on my server, or a little farming, so its not like its the end of the world to fail a run.


Thanks for this, gives me a good idea of what to shoot for. Is this top of the line groups or is this fairly standard?

It's closer to top-end, but should also be possible if people learn from past mistakes, or know the gimmicks of the NMs and how to exploit them

a top end group does 6/6 in under 20 min, would say getting to tojil with 25 min remaining is average for a no-leech group

surprised nobody asked about the brd, do they have 3 or 4 songs? gjallarhorn? having a horn makes a world of difference for your whm, healing should never be a problem with one

I'm assuming Tojil will probably take about 15 to 20 minutes, is this wrong to assume? Obviously this will vary from run to run.

I never said there was anything wrong with a failed run or two. ***happens. It's the consecutive losses that build up and demoralize the troops. And changing things up, can offer a new perspective, and a fresh start. I also mentioned you could work in favorite jobs *and* winning.

If tojil is taking 15-20min, your over-all DPS as a group is pretty low, meaning more things can and will go wrong, and stun resists will build up.

I'd say it should go down in about 8min or less, if the monk is using a merited Formless Strikes, and skillchains are going off for additional magic phase damage.

I would say the groups I have gone with regularly are pretty top notch, depending on how long Kurma takes and any missed stuns on Tuts, we're doing our Tojil buffs at or before the 20min mark. ~30 mins zone clears should be fairly standard for above average groups at this point. 119 JSE weapons are not bad, but they need to be using the correct gear and playing their job correctly. I've seen plenty of 119RME players suck horribly or have very shambled together gearsets.

New ***3 song instrument, no Ghorn...I'm in the process of making Apoc and can't afford to make Horn atm

The bolded. So much.

I typically go monk to my delve group runs. While I don't expect everyone to have the same gear I do, there are a lot of basics people keep skipping out on, thinking that just because they have a 119 weapon, that makes them good.

'Cause dat skill, yo.

Melee dps should have hybrid sets that offer at least 25% PDT (if not higher) and full haste. For the monk, I would highly recommend getting Hesychast's Hose and Cyclas for Formless and Hundred Fists respectively, and Gaiters for Mantra, if he doesn't already have it. (note, I am not saying +1 or else, only using the base 109's because they are relatively easy and inexpensive to make)

You also didn't really mention which 119 weapons they have. Which would make a huge difference.

As stated by Jassik, they should really try to match equipment levels to match their weapon as best they can, for best results, and the type of gear that is going to maximize offensive and defensive capabilities.

Are you doing mata while you do raptor and eft? They all sleep easily if you have i119 gear, you should be able to have the MNK prep mata while the other 2 DD kill the raptor and at least start on the eft. If it looks like your time isn't great for mata, don't DoT the eft and then just disengage and sleep it 20 seconds before you need to start mata. You can resume after.

If your WHM is regularly having mp problems, I would strongly advise considering a setup shift or investing in a horn, but you can mitigate it a bit with coalition ethers and vile/vile+1 ready. The horn is by no means necessary for a good group, but if your WHM doesn't have MP problems you have a lot less to worry about since nothing in delve1 will one shot.

If your DD are regularly hitting 150 TP, say something. The damage difference between an attentive DD riding timers and TP is huge versus someone who's got their *** out and porn on during the run.

A strong setup can get to tojil in 13-16 minutes, and kill it in 5. You don't need to be that good to win though, if your DD are alive+buffed+engaged the entire run I don't see how you could time out.

Keep in mind that some layouts will straight up require more time than others, 1-3 will always have to wait on mata's TP to some extent due to the exponential nature: having mata pop at the far back and require a longer pull will always hurt your time.

I did say they all have their respective JSE weapons, maybe that wasn't enough though. I'm not sure if they'll come up on FFXIAH yet, but they're Nyepal, Areadbhar, and Kurikaranotachi.

Also another thing we might be doing wrong is dealing with adds. This could very well be my fault since I'm pulling, but is it wrong to just have 1 DD kill an add while the MNK or someone holds the NM? That made sense to me, but is it better to just sleep them for the duration of the NM then kill it after? To me it seems like the same thing. I know Tojil is on me to sac pull, but still not worrying about him until we can consistently get to him in a good amount of time.

Edit: Realised I didn't answer this: We are doing all NMs 1 at a time. Is it required to do the mata alongside others or is it just safer in terms of time?

always grab Mata asap and have sch or mnk solo it(our sch can solo mata completely and it helps) if mata is rdy before other NMs are dead they can be slept easily. we tried a 6 man with me as drg and it just didn't, work angon isn't good enough with only 6 ppl, more mnk/sam your best bet.

As a sch, I rather nuke Kurma (thunder 1 nukes that multiplier builds) and toss a helix on it when have gotten a nice boost up (2k+ helix eats it up pretty nicely). For one, it can't use tetsudo tremor till 50%, and even after that, if you have a whm with decent barspell set, it's not going to do more than 300-400 tops (and it's so fast that gonna miss it half the time, kinda like Morta's full bloom, the animation seems to take ages but your stun window is about 1 second).

For Tojil, if you take longer than 10 minutes to kill it, you will hit stun resist wall. Well, unless you just stun lahar and batholithic shell I suppose. But that requires no lag connection that your stunner has time to read which move it is. :/

You are singing your songs with applicable +3 instruments tho, right? Sadly I've seen a lot of brds who full-time the new 3 song instrument, and obviously marches are garbage without the song+ bonuses (as a rule they don't have empy+2 hands either).

And agreed, without gjalla the whm might be hurting on mp. :/

I Whm all the time for Tojil runs, and I have to say I rarely go with a Ghorn brd. With that being said I never have mp issues. I have a 6tic refresh idle set that's really easy to put together. I wouldn't focus too much on a Ghorn if brd isn't that important to you as it is a huge investment.

Not doing Mata while you fight one or the others is easily adding 5-7 minutes onto your total time, which could make or break a win depending how your Tojil goes. Def try to have your mnk on him asap(and make sure he can count) while other dds fight raptor/eft. Usually our dds manage to kill raptor and eft and Mata is at 4-6 depending how long it took us to find and gather everything. If it gets to 7, mnk (with some possible sch support if it's needed, at 7 Aero1's should be doing max dmg) should be able to easily kill it by themselves.

The difference between g-horn and +1 harp for ballads is pretty significant, not so much for other songs assuming you have all your Af3 and +3 instruments. If you intend on doing delve seriously for a long time, having a G-horn brd is going to make things so much easier, especially when you move into harder/more mp intensive zones.

Agreed I noticed this last night myself I don't have ghorn yet and if the whm isn't sporting a decent idle refresh set it's harder

Ballad 3 harp empy and ballad 2 are 5 and 4 per tick.... Ghorn +4 are 8 and 7 that in itself is massive but for me it's the next step the final ballad which nails it. No ghorn ballad 1 is +3 ghorn is +6

Total harp refreshes 12 ghorn 21.......

I really need to get a ghorn.....

As a brd, as soon as songs are ready, I generaly go grab raptor / eft / mata, let the sch claim mata and sleep the other two + adds.

while SCH is magic-preparing mata, DDs kill Raptor then eft. (Since eft can dispel songs, we do it last).

By the time the two nms are dead, Mata should be ready or very close.

Kurma, I just stand with the DDs all fight long. Re-singing double marches (don't bother with a third song) every time it tortoise songs. And Insta-finale everytime it Hardern Shells.

Peiste can be annoying, but if you keep it blinded and your whm is on toe, it should go down pretty quickly.

Tojil, I generaly sack-pull after songs are ready. It's the only tough part, really, as your scholar will decide if you win or lose.

You can survive a Lahar nowadays if you have a good whm and your DDs have solid PDT sets, but it often ends up killing you.

Good luck to you

Your issue sounds like just DD output issue, not setup/strat issue.

I've been helping a lot of newer/returning player for delve1 clear recently and they usually have issue getting delve1 clear too, then it became a catchy 22: Can't clear delve1 without good gear, can't do good dmg without good gear, can't get good gear without delve1 clear.

I just invite 2 other good DD already got clear and carry them win, instead of inviting 3 DD needing win and fail 100 times.





I prefer to kill adds first, but you can do it both ways. I think you worry about the minor detail too much.



The ideal DD on Tojil is MNK, but honestly it can be done with any DD setup, even if the pt has 0 MNK.

A good sam with yoshi along the monks is great too, as he can deal massive damage during the slashing and piercing modes.

Unless you need to wipe on Tojil then recover, it doesn't make a difference with extra 5 min. Avg successful PUG can beat 6 NM in 20~25 min, sometimes 30 min. That leave you 15 min of free time, even if you waste those 15 min on mata you still have at least 8 min left.

I almost never pt with a group that needs full 45 min and still manage to win. They either kill everything in 20~30 min and win, or take longer and wipe. If you need that extra 5~7 min from mata, you may have issue on tojil too.

IMO, instead of having to worry about the minor detail such as killing adds first, MB on kurma or the NM kill order, work on DD output and DT- set is more important than anything else.

(I'm going to be biased and recommend COR >.>)

I
Totaly agree. People tend to think Tojil delve is easy but it's not.
I'd say 3 things are mandatory to get a win :

- DDs are good enough (At least 1 of them is really good.)
- Sch is a good stunner
- at least 1 person knows the zone well and understand what's going on / where to go / Give good orders.