Yorcia Delve V2

Is this zone possible to do with only a 3 song BRD? Or will NMs like Mandy be a problem due to ACC since not a 4th song? Any information or knowledge from experience would be wonderful. Thank you!

it can be done with a 3 song bard just makes it a little ruffer

depends on other jobs imo. for instance say you bring a geo as the 7th member of a six man group in the outside party, geo-topor should negate most acc issues

Ok thanks. This proves a point I was trying to make. I was told that I couldn't cap acc with a 3 song BRD and that mathematically it was impossible to do. If I sacrificed one haste song for acc it would make a big difference and 4 song was the only way to go.

you can sacrifice a haste song for acc but it'll obviously hurt your team's DPS output. Can probably do it with 2 song bards even, it's just the game of balancing - the weaker the support the more you have to compensate from other people

you can cap accuracy with a corsair, geomancer, and 3 song bard if your dd have good accuracy sets.

i personally find that an 8-10 man setup works better than 6 for delve 2 anyway

Prove what point? Only 4 song BRD can clear yorcia was never my point. You can't cap acc on mandy with only 1 none SV madrigal if no GEO and COR buff was my point. Above post just said you need a GEO to cap, and yet you insist you don't need a GEO to cap with just 1 none SV mad because your MNK acc set is awesome, lol.

I never argue anything about "you can't clear yorcia without 4 song BRD". I only ever said you can't cap acc on mandy with 1 none SV mad if no COR GEO buff. And using 1 march instead of 2 is big DPS drop. Both argument are fact and it doesn't equal to "you can't clear with 1 march" I never say a damn thing about whether 3 song BRD can clear or not, I only talk about your DPS with 1 march and your hit rate with 1 none SV madrigal.

Then you never present a valid counter argument besides "I can cap it on MNK np"(but you bead that NM right) "your MNK suck" and "You don't play a DD job so how'd you know"...well, none of the counter argument are math nor number related.

Exactly which part of my "you can't cap acc on mandy without GEO COR and just 1 none SV mad" and "losing 1 march is big DPS drop" arguement is mathematically incorrect?

If you want to argue that MNK can cap acc with 1 none SV mad and no GEO COR, I'll listen if it's fact. Otherwise bashing my job to defend for your own flawed argument isn't going to convince anyone.

In fact, I also don't understand why you automatically dismiss 4 song BRD when I can get one. Why do you intentionally want to do it the hard way by not inviting 4 song BRD, the proceed to argue that beading T4 is the best way to go, just so we can invite 3 song BRD instead of 4? = = If I only have access to 3 songs, fine, I'll do with what I have. I've done it with 3 song BRD for god's sake. But I have access to 4, so what the *** is wrong with inviting a 4 song BRD?

I thought there was just 2 melee accuracy songs. Maybe dextrous etude?

Also, since you obviously think my opinion about melee acc is holds no weight because I don't have MNK and SAM, that you have to pop on AH and ask other's opinion because their opinion is more correct than mine. I'll just use their argument to argue against yours.


Crunkie: I'm telling you I can still cap acc with "legit acc setup".(only 1 madrigal and no 2hr), and I only had a BRD.(no GEO and COR)





Your precious AH comment clearly stated you need GEO, how can you claim your acc was capped without it and just 1 none SV madrgal?

If someone has some kind of OP MNK acc TP set that can get 95% hit rate on mandy without COR/GEO/SV/madrigal x2 post it please.


Crunkie: 1 march doesn't make a difference.




Spirachub clearly said sacrifice 1 song for acc hurts DPS. If you think march doesn't make a difference on DPS, you may as well TP in zero haste because it makes no difference.

Sounds like you're just pulling tons of incorrect information out of nowhere. I mean, 1 march doesn't make a difference on DPS, seriously?

You don't get it don't you, I wanted to invite a 4 song BRD to yorcia because why not(and that BRD wanted to do it too), then crunkie freaked out because I'm not allowed to invite 4 song BRD and for some reason he thinks 3 songs is just as good as 4 songs. Then he proceed to spend 20 min to argue with me because he thinks whether the BRD has 3 songs or 4 songs doesn't make a difference.

What do you want me to do? Kick the 4 song BRD and invite a 3 song BRD because crunkie can magically cap acc and haste on mandy with none SV march madrgal x2?


/popcorn.

My maximum accuracy set for MNK has 960 accuracy before any type of buffs. Add Riverfin soup(90), Aggressor(25), Focus(37), Marcato'd Madrigal with +5 Ghorn(64) and you're at 1176 accuracy. So, it's technically possible, but not optimal or practical.

I was playing with spreadsheet earlier I got around 1199 with acc food, delve2 h2h path B R15 and aggressor/focus up.

But I also swapped out epona and DA earring x2, also I was using quite an unpopular augment path for the weapon. In real life practice it is also possible that your JA wear before NM's dead or other DD in same pt can't cap acc using other weapons/gears. If the NM survive for more than 3 min for w/e reason(and there's a pretty good chance it'll happen with only 3 songs+ full acc set and general support/hate reset issue of this NM), it'd drop below 1150.

I really don't see how it can be "legit acc set" that way.....it's 10 times more legit to grab a 4 song BRD.

o_O is the mandy really that hard? Just seems like a lot of over-analyzing... while the 3rd or 4th strong is just going to be dps boostage, you're still looking at mad x2 for a 3 or 4 song bard right? I guess that's flip-out worthy on a run. If the only point was to try and hammer the fact that a 4 song isn't needed *shrug* I'd be looking at the whole party's setup and teamwork if 1 or 2 songs is that pivotal to winning or losing. I've run with 4 song bards that have no song duration gears, their only selling point is HEY I HAVE FOUR SONGS and just end up being a liability because all they can do is sing because their songs are wearing off by the time they finish one set or failing their ranges (DD need ballad!). In contrast a 3 song bard that knew what they were doing and filling in as a support role...which would you rather have?

People make the mandy sound like a complete whiffest. I go on WAR for yorcia so I honestly don't really pay attention to the accuracy issues, it always goes down relatively quick. I get more irritated by slow dispels/finales not getting rid of photosynthesis and eating petalback spin.

You know that every time when I tried to do a yorcia 6 NM run to help some ppl getting their clear, Crunkie always tried to convince me "It's better to farm bead for Mandy and morta" right? Yeah, mandy is easy for you, but for someone like Crunkie, who believe farming bead is the better way to go, I think it's better to grab a better BRD to make everyone's life easier?

The point wasn't even whether you can win with 3 songs or not. I never claim yorcia isn't doable with 3 songs, I only said I want 4 songs for yorcia because my BRD friend with 4 songs wanted to get in, and extra acc/attack buff makes a difference. On top of there's one person in the pt who believe mandy is hard and must be beaded. If Crunkie's awesome MNK can cap acc with just 1 madrigal, fine. Go eat attack food or use low acc TP set or w/e. But I still want 4 song BRD regardless of what he said because 4 songs still make a difference. In fact I constantly bring 4 song BRD to bee/tojil too, even though it's completely doable with just 3 songs. I just see zero reason not to get a 4 song BRD for even better run when you can.


I've brought 3 songs BRD to yorcia when I couldn't get a 4 song BRD before, but when a 4 song BRD just sitting there for me to invite, and he happened to be a friend that I can trust and interested in yorcia, I failed to see the logic behind telling me not to invite him? Further more, there are no other 3 songs BRD around that the situation was more like "go with 4 song BRD or no BRD" instead of "choosing between 3 songs or 4 songs". Even if I need to choose between a 4 song BRD I can trust v.s another random /shout 3 song BRD, I'd still pick 4 song BRD without second thought.

Whether Crunkie can hit 1150 with or without focus/aggressor doesn't even *** matter, he wasn't even on DD job nor BRD, he was on WHM. And there were zero promise that every DD can hit 1150 with just 1 madrigal. Exactly what's the logic behind telling ppl not to invite a 4 song BRD? From a pt leader's POV, when your 4 song BRD friend want to get in(and there no other BRD alternative), and you have at least 1 DD spot that's random(so you don't know whether every DD can hit 1150 with 1 madrigal or not), 4 song BRD was certainly the better choice.

I have gotten Wopket to 8% (+5NM) 3box with no other help. So with a full party it should be more than possible to win without any RME, 4 songs etc.

Picture of me wiping/timing out at 8% with 3, shameless plug etc:



The biggest issue people new to zone face more than gear limitations is taking too much time to get from 1 NM to the next and downtime buffing/killing adds. A few runs learning the layout of a zone and getting everyone on the same page will usually be the factor between winning and not, rarely will it come down to 3 vs 4 songs etc.

You can argue that Tojil is beatable with 2 songs or maybe even no song, but I'm still going with 4 if I can get it.

So far I still haven't seen anyone put up a legit argument against 4 songs.

I think I've stated over and over again, I never claim it's "impossible to win" with 3. I only said "I want 4", because my 4 song BRD friend wants in and 4 songs helps with acc issue.

I can agree that kill speed isn't make or break in any of the delve zones, but when you're making a pt with half of the member have zero 6 NM full run experience, and one person who started drama on 4 song BRD issue got win with beads and insisted that farming bead is the way to go, with another 4 song BRD wanted to get in. telling a pt like this "don't get 4 song BRD" isn't a very good decision no?"

GM mode and fillmode, seem suspect lolz u cheat there? XD

I doubt it's anything other than the usual windower stuff, fillmode to bypass the annoying difficult to see through foliage in Yorcia (U)

belladonna is the hardest thing in the zone imo, and even then not by much. it's the only thing that's managed to slow down any group I've seen or gone with. note, this is with 3 songs at best. usually it's my brd mule who only has two songs at present due to my laziness in remaking her macros for terpaderp. if you're terribly concerned about 3 songs not being enough and can't get 4, abuse clarion call's 4th song and keep it active for the whole zone or bring a COR and/or GEO.

hi

This argument doesn't really work well. It's incredibly hard to keep CC song up in delve due to people running and dying and you may have better things to do than to ensure the 4th song is up (esp with belladonna charming people at bad timing). And of course, under this argument, a 4 song bard could keep a 5th song up and boost your attk with a minuet.

Everything everyone's been saying is a just shifting the work elsewhere really. Yes 3 song bard would work if you can hit the 1150 acc you need for mandy else where. Personally I have more problem getting all 2-3 DDs with enough acc to cap it on mandy than getting a 4 song bard (but I'm biased on this of course, being the brd..). And I don't even PUG this.

Even if you have a DD with good enough acc set, you can increase your DPS with that madrigal and let your DD wear less acc orientated gear.

4 song will always be better, 3 song will work if you get acc else where(geo, better geared DD, cor), 2 song will work if you get more acc else where (bolster geo, 2nd bard etc etc).

Not sure what this argument is trying to say really. Afania has every right to take a better geared bard. lol Saying you can do it with a lesser geared brd is like saying you can take a eminent geared DD and still win this. Of course you can, you can take a leech even, you just need to have good enough people on other jobs to compensate :)

This wasn't a "which NM is the hardest" discussion though, this is "whether you can cap 95% hit rate with only 1 none SV madrigal or not" discussion. COR GEO doesn't count because OP's argument was that he can cap without them.

So far only Ejiin actually posted an actual number with his set: Which is 1176 with JA up, 1114 without JA up, if the pt has a Ghorn BRD.

I also had to point out, I was probably the only person in that pt with experience on 6 NM clear run. Half the ppl in that pt beaded for clear, another half have no clear. And pt wasn't even full, that means I may get more ppl with 0 experience in that zone.

And you know, when you go in with ppl with 0 experience, someone get to do something wrong. Maybe they'll *** up on mandy hate reset, or forget dispel. And the NM ended up taking longer than 3 min to kill.

Unless Crunkie's MNK acc set is better than Ejiin's(maybe he has better set than Ejiin's, idk). As long as this NM takes longer than 3 min to kill he won't parse 95% hit rate with 1 none SV madrigal, period.

Until Crunkie can prove that his MNK TP set has even higher acc than Ejiin's with JA down, I'm not convinced that he can cap acc on mandy with just 1 madrigal.

And even if his acc set is better than Ejiin's, so what? /shrug he wasn't even playing DD job in pt and it doesn't help unless there were 3 Crunkie.

the question shouldn't be if you can get capped hit rate with 1 madrigal, it should be if the hit rate you do get with 1 madrigal is sufficient to clear the zone. the OP made no mention of requiring a 20~30 minute clear time or anything. he asked if it's possible to clear the zone with only 3 songs. it most indubitably is. missing the fourth song won't cause the zone to become "mathematically impossible" to complete.

I don't care about any qualms you have with someone else in the thread anyway, I'm just answering the OP's question.


edit: nevermind, I scrolled down and saw his next post and didn't realize you're in the same ls or something. carry on then

edit2: also to toss more fuel to the fire because reasons, I'd be willing to argue that having enough support capable of removing debuffs (or a yagrush) is far more important than having a fourth song or something. honestly I'm not even sure why this argument exists, the question was whether it's possible, the answer is yes. the semantics behind it are irrelevant unless you're looking for maximum efficiency, which it's pretty evident most of the people in this thread don't care about. worse comes to absolute worst, you drop advancing march for a second madrigal on godragora. slower killspeed than ideal, but fast enough that it doesn't matter unless your group is horrendous, in which case no number of brd buffs is going to save you. obviously if you have four songs, bring four songs, you'd be stupid not to. who's telling you not to? the point is it's entirely possible without.

GM mode is to avoid collision, hardly game breaking, its primarily QoL for being in town. Has literally no effect on stuff I'm doing in this zone, once I am positioned to fight I'm trying to move as little as possible.

Fillmode is hardly a cheat, all it does is alter the displayed graphics based on the wireframe models are created from. Again has no real bearing on how well I would do since I know the zone well.

I'm surprised you didn't mention the fact I have Icon DATS (yet another heinous crime no doubt).

If you're interested I'm also using other such cheats:

Gearswap
Send
Bufftimer
Timers
TParty
Shortcuts

That's not what I originally claimed though. My stance in this entire argument was "It's going to be very hard to cap acc on mandy without double madrigal if you don't have GEO and COR", therefore I want to invite my 4 song BRD friend to the pt. OP just twisted what I said and turned it into "Someone told me 3 song BRD can't win yorcia." I feel like I have to clarify cuz I hate people put words in my mouth like that.

If someone can show me a parse result with 95% hit rate with just 1 madrigal and no COR/GEO/SV, alone with his gear set. I'll admit I'm wrong about this subject. But so far I've yet to see any relevant proof to prove that you can parse 95% without additional songs/buff.




How the *** would I know why ppl want to start drama the moment I mentioned my 4 song BRD friend wants to join the pt. OP must hold a grudge against 4 song BRDs on our server.

ok well then we've just reached a misunderstanding. I'm not arguing against that because it would be ridiculous to. I'm just supporting the notion that you can do it with three songs, not suggesting that bringing four would be wrong or that you autocap accuracy with just one madrigal or something. that would be preposterous.

That's not really the correct answer. The correct answer should be yes under a certain amount of assumptions on the situation. Which is why the replies exist.

At the end of the day, the real reason of this thread wasn't whether someone can clear yorcia with a 3 song bard, it is "omg Afania didn't let me in his group because I'm only 3 song and I'm totally bitter and I need to proof to him that it can be done".

That wasn't even the case too, Crunkie was already in, on WHM >.> I mean, if I'm kicking 3 song LS mate out of pt and inviting none LS BRD for 4 songs, maybe his argument would be more legit. But I honestly don't know the reason to start drama when he was already in.

Basically without my 4 song BRD friend we'd have to resort to /shout which is even worse = =

yeah I didn't pick up the inter-LS drama until I read passed the first like 4 posts, which was after my post was made. Excuse me for trying to legitimately answer the guy's question though, I guess D:

Knowing how a certain someone in this thread speaks to others on here im sure theres more to this "i have a 4 song brd friend" than that has been revealed. If crunkie was making the pt he can invite or not invite whoever he wants.