Dark Knights Purpose These Days

So my wife and friend recently convinced me to rejoin FFXI. I have been out of it for a rather long time but I have spent the last few weeks playing catch up.

My question is these days I don't know what the point of drk is now, back in the day we were spike damage or zerg but now that the game play dynamics have changed so much both those types don't seem viable or useful.

Playing with them which their primary jobs are dnc,mnk,sam and smn. I am out damaged by far margins by the mnk and sam, even the smn with predator claws every min.

What are drk's strengths these days, as I have been lowmanning a lot of stuff with them but I am out damaged by most of them, cant tank obviously which means soloing and duoing is also difficult, so really all I am seeing are the areas we are lacking and not really seeing any specific strong points as even after spending a lot of time trying to catch up I don't feel like my presence is actually contributing. So please tell me what it is I can bring to the table to be useful

Killing everyone.

Collect dust~ unless you find it then, then its a wonderful patch of rainbows with unicorns and pizza.

Depending on the content and how aged your gear and character are, it's not suprising in the least. DRK nowadays should have at least Senbaak equipped, though most would prefer them to be sporting Rag ilvl 119 due to how VITAL accuracy is on worthwhile content. DRKs were never known for their great accuracy to begin with, now throw level 99 players against level 110 - 130ish mobs and NMs and yeah... You're gonna need a gearing montage most likely.

Also keep in mind that you're not going to be a top DD in most cases nowadays due to the current game balance, though a well geared and skilled DRK should still be towards the higher end of the charts. If it was older content, SMN should be mauling it due to all the changes in just this past patch making it an unstoppable killing machine and actually scaling better than a Dunes melee doing a 75 merit camp. MNK will be the bane of your existence until you bandwagon it like most people that care to DD these days, as it's one of the easiest and best damage dealers last I recalled. Odds are the ones you were going against had the ilvl 119 H2H from Tojil, which is JP Button on your hands as far as damage output goes.

If you can provide your current gear setup and the like, I'm sure a few of us can give you some good feedback to get you back up to par in no time at all. The glory of modern XI is that you can reach top gearsets more or less in under a month, and really be geared competently in a week or less, provided you're paying into Adoulin.

Edit: Oh, and 5/5 Resolution from Merit WS is a given, in case you're not doing that. You're expected to be flailing that GS around like a busted weedwhacker to really get up in the damage rankings. Otherwise we'd just call you a PLD pretending they're a WAR.

Chilzen pretty much took most of the words right out of my mouth.

It's totally possible to play DRK and end up in the higher ends of the charts. Part of it is knowing your enemies, such as fighting the Delve Naakuals. For example, when Tojil rotates his damage resistances to Slashing, that's your cue to fire off your best abilities and capitalize on damage. That's a higher-end example, but the statement itself is the point- it's about being technical. Time your endark casting when you're not fighting things, use souleater if you're communicating well with your healer, etc.

DRK is a deadly job. Yeah, you'll get outparsed by MNK most of the time, it's expected. Don't let that drag you down. DRK itself is still a decent damage dealer and will contribute to alliance/party setups when you have the right tools in your possession.

I'm sure DRK will be awesome again soon. They were boss at 75 with Apoc, then they were meh in Abyssea since no Crit WS, then they became boss again during the ADL/Legion/VW era with Resolution and Ragnarok99, now they dwindled again compared to MNK. I'm sure DRK will come around, again...

Only reason DRK has "dwindled" because Ark Angels/DM are pretty much "Throw More RNGs and MNKs at it!" DRKs are usually best at zerging, but not limited to it.

Technically speaking, Delve can be considered a zerg situation, when you're fighting the NMs. DRK/NIN can also take the place of a MNK for single Ark Angel fights if you can manage your shadows.

DRK is a great DD, and often desired for any group using a chaos roll, but it's current biggest problem in new content is survival.Survival is why MNK is the current favorite DD. That and flexibility thanks to formless.

DRKs can't safely use LR or SE on newer content because they'll be mauled like a dumb*ss in a tiger exhibit. MNK can just eat stronger attacks because of their HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE high hp, and don't lose as much from lack of JAs like berserk as DRK loses from lack of LR.


It also doesn't help that DRK lacks multiple damage types for Delve while focusing on slashing type damage, that's common as dirt, which is another reason MNK and SAM are so brokenly powerful for Delve.

That being said, the new hp adjustments, new skirmish 119 gear, and other such improvements to survivability that will come over time could make DRK far more relevant than it currently is. Anything making DRK less of a suicide risk for using its offensive buffs is a giant plus. However, it won't do anything for Delve because DRK lacks damage types, but it should help with new content outside of Delve.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all, it's definitely easier to bring all the MNKs and BLUs you have (I have BLU as my "Plan B"). I'm just saying DRK is a decent damage alternative when you need an extra spot to fill. Or if you just want to mix things up a bit. Just getting your healers to keep an extra eye on them is, of course, the trade-off.

I'm looking forward to the HP adjustments too, any improvement is a bonus. And I really didn't have too many problems with DRK at delve the more I did it. Just gotta pay special attention to which abilities you use and stuff to make up for the damage from lack of weapon types.

Get an Apoc.

He already has one though :x

DRK can do very reasonable damage in Delve. It can be hard to keep up with proper MNKs (not the ones using sparks gear only) but I don't stray too far behind, and that was with Senbaak.

I have defeated all three zones as a Dark Knight, and there was a long while I was holding hate on the shark AND staying alive (need good pdt/mdt sets) without using Apoc, and of course having a reliable WHM.

The main problem in Delve is getting MNKs who can keep the hate from you. DRK is a heavy DD and needs to be slightly behind the MNKs, and if the DRK gets too much hate, put on pdt/mdt and wait for 10-15 seconds.

Not sure why people overestimate MNKs in Delve, I have seen some terrible MNKs, it is easier to parse higher with MNK, but it really depends on the player and whether they have the equipment to back it up. You only need one DRK though for the phase where the Mega Bosses are weak to your damage type, which is a great time to use the new 1 hour Soul Enslavement. Do not underestimate a good DRK for delve.

PS: If you are having to switch to Apoc during Delve, something is going wrong and you will be losing much needed DPS over Ragnarok 119/Senbaak.

I am surprised no one mentioned to unlock torncleaver. As a 119 relic owner I can way out perform torncleavers on my rag than I can with resolution. And with the new WoE path its easy to add to your arsenal

Liberator

Space Knight > Dark Knight

I'm sure you'll get the reference

Drk is awesome, bring your gear up to date, play what you love and play it well and you can do any content/'endgame' you want.
Find new friends/people to do things with if they don't want to bring you because you dont have monk or ranger.
Oh and make an apoc.


I've done AA's grouped with a few 119 Apoc drk/nin , its quite cool to see in action.
For AA/DM, i'll take a dedicated drk with an apoc that knows how to utsutank and has a good -dt set. Plenty of Oat mnk bandwagoners out there continue to disappoint me by trying to faceroll dps and die, thinking they are invincible with a larger hp pool.

The playerbase latching onto to the 'gotta bring mnk+ranger' metagame is mainly due to party builders taking the easy way out of 'we need a mnk' as opposed to 'we need a DD that's known for their skillful play and top notch gear'.

and yet, when you have choice of every dd, there's no reason to choose drk

you can say 'a good apoc drk is more useful than a bad mnk', but you could also say 'a good melee whm is more useful than a bad mnk'.. with equal gear the mnk leads significantly in both dps and survivability, hence people want to bring them

it's the bandwagon job atm as well, so there's no availability issue either

for that matter, anyone touting apoc as a stay-alive button is either using terrible whms or utterly clueless, whenever you're missing 1000 hp there should already be 2 cures midcast.. best case you restore your hp less than a second earlier, most of the time a successful cata heal will just be shorting your whms mp from orison pants+2..

(i'm not disagreeing that drk works fine, but to imply it's the better choice or anyone should be taking drk over mnk is a bit silly.. you need friends that are ok with it)

Is MNK really better DPS than DRK now? 119 rag looks sick as f*ck and outside of gimmicky mechanics, like damage bonus/reduction at certain hp percentages, shouldn't a DRK at its peak be stronger than a MNK at their peak?

The real lure of MNK has always been a great DD with a high HP that made it stupid hard to kill compared to everything that's not PLD.

mnk is better dps than apoc drk

MNK just has too many naturally good designed things to help keep it on the higher end of the spectrum for damage dealing, where as others have pointed out, DRK doesn't get as much use of their own abilities with some boss fights.

In any content worth dragging DRK AND MNK out, both should be just about optimally buffed with capped haste and the like, so it's a case of gear and XI tradion of situational playouts. MNKs from what I've seen were usually top of the parsers when people read them off, since they're gonna usually get the full use of Hundred Fists on top of counters being so naturally effective. DRK gets to push some great spike damage per the usual, but it usually won't be as great as MNK. Being able to reliably come out around the top... 5 in a run of 18 though isn't something to scoff at.

Main ways DRK will get to shine is either gimmick fight where Absorbs do great things, or mobs / NMs are weaker to slash instead of blunt. Though all that damage usually shifts hate back onto the DRK, who has to idle more in their DT sets since keeping hate is suicide, if they don't get oneshotted by some of the stuff thrown out nowadays. MNK can just keep doing Mantra rotation and pop the new 1 hour if needed to stay in the fight while healers patch them up, keeping them in the fight and letting them keep that damage pouring in. Then you might have a COR pop in and get lucky with Wild Draw, and obviously Hundred Fists Round 2 should usually help clean up anything.

DRK isn't bad DD at all, it's just that when you compare it to MNK, it's glaringly obvious why one is stronger than the other.

Not true I parse more as drk in tojil shout runs then 90% of the monks in the allaince.

Doesn't surprise me at all. Despite how many people will jump at the chance to say mnk is easymode, while I love my own MNK, I generally won't invite MNKs to ***. I can count with my fingers the number of MNKs I find competent enough to invite to anything.

That being said, being a MNK main since 2005, I hold the job to very high standards.

Delve is kinda derpy now, so speaking strictly in regards to new fights. I'm not too familiar with either jobs gear, so won't mention, but:

MNK
-Massive HP
-Massive Accuracy
-Moderate Attack
-Good Weaponskills
-Formless Strikes
-Mantra
-Counter (Not through counterstance)
-To a lesser degree, Chakra.

DRK
-Moderate HP
-Moderate Accuracy
-High Attack
-Good Weaponskills

May have missed some things, but that's about it for DRK I think. They typically sub ninja for new fights I believe, gaining no beneficial JA to DPS. Their own JA come at a decent risk of death, I'm not sure if good DRKs are using them (if they're using DRK at all) but for now I'll assume no. I'm not too sure how DRK's accuracy and attack fair under optimal buffs, but I would think, where the harder difficulties are concerned, that they are uncapped on both, more so in some fights than others (Mithra). Attack uncapped being the case, their best WS, Resolution will suffer with the attack penalty present.


Just some further insight to why MNK is typically favored in this situations, but obviously more specifically vs. DRK. I may have made some mistakes/missed some things out, but correct where necessary.

Drk does get an acc+ ja though at the cost of hp so acc shouldnt really be too much of a problem its just your hp that will be. Apoc drks will probably be able to use more of the native JAs like souleater as cata wont take your hp down as the hp recovered aplies after hp gets reduced for the enhanced damage. They are still fairly new fights and like delve before it people will use "safe strats" till people get used to them and then any DD will be fine. Plds with /thf dds slowly chipping away at the mobs hp.

if you leave souleater up you're requiring a cure every 2 seconds or missing 10-25% hp from your auto rounds, so you're talking about one free cata(300 damage once..) from souleater not fulltiming it even with apoc

using diabolic eye is an easy way to get you killed on most of them

/thf dd is pointless, enmity cap is easy to reach, /nin dds are the way to go

(maybe try the fights before telling us how to use drk in them)

MNK is just harder to f*ck up, like you must be brain dead to play it wrong. If you took a sh1tty player and had him / her play through various DD's, MNK is the one they would do the best on. They are still a sh1tty player and will never be near the top but MNK doesn't allow them to screw up too badly. Compared to a job like BLU or DNC where you gotta be a walking encyclopedia of game mechanic knowledge MNK looks like "easy mode". Jobs like WAR and DRK are closer to MNK then to DNC / BLU in difficulty but there is still a large amount of required knowledge and skill involved, especially in defensive fights.

As for DRK, it boils down to if you can use /SAM and LR or not. LR lets DRK to some insane stuff and opens up the option to spam highly buffed WS's constantly. If the DRK can safely utilize SE then it'll be a blowout. Of course if the DRK has to go /NIN and play defensively then it's crippled vs a job like MNK which has all it's goodies built in.

Also something for you guys to try. NV and DS both have the same 5min recast and with a fairly common setup you can get 45 accuracy for 110 seconds. It'll go down by 1 every 10s for 34 at the very end so we're talking about 38~40 averaged accuracy. It requires you to cast Absorb-Acc which could be a problem mid fight, this tactic is best used at the very beginning prior to engaging the boss.

Read what I said before you type next time.

Acc wont be much of a problem its your hp that will means theres a trade off acc for hp and yes a small hp pool will get you killed i know this. Extra damage is extra damage and most drks from 75 would know to cancel Souleater after wsing though depending what other JAs you team up with souleater depends on how much hp is or isnt lost. The /thf part was concerning delve when it was first released and people were using "safe strats" you dont see people go /thf to anything delve related these days. Every time new "hard" fight have been introduced theres been that period of time where people take x y z job because its safer. Fracture Bee boss was first downed by a group with relic rng DDs because it was easier and safer. You yourself have taken tojil out with less than 18 people where as a lot were still wiping.

i have no idea what you're babbling about, are you trying to say 300 damage from souleatering one cata makes drk a competitive dd?

if you're agreeing the hp loss from diabolic eye isn't viable, why bring it up at all?

DD/thf were never used by good groups for anything.. it's not a safe/slow thing, it's a terrible choice.. the safe group on these is /nin or rng dd

i did all 3 bosses w/ just 9 prior to new 1hs and skirm gear(why you brought that up, i have no idea, though)


tldr;



DRK is good for old content(esp ADL), and not a bad choice for delve. Ragnarok is still a much better weapon than apocalypse. Anyone taking you to AA is weakening their setup in doing so, but many groups are comfortable enough by now that it doesn't matter.

Showing your lack of reading skills now but I shall break it down so its easier to read.

SoA is released then delve is released shortly after. Delve fights were "hard" in the first few weeks so PUG melees /thf as it was safe and easy. People got used to the fight and got better geared and didnt need /thf. Delve went from hard to easy quite quickly

For most newly released "hard" fights people take safer/easier strats which after a while people use different/better strats which woll most likely happen to the AA fights.

Tldr
Go think of flowers and butterflies.