DRG In Delve/Plasm Farm?

You'll continue to parse high due to the weapon(that I noted) that makes you an exception to what I said

But hey, defensive illiteracy is fun too

Enjoy your ***'s *** at the club 70k plasm runs

Skeero's LS is one of the few to have taken down Delve bosses. You're barking up the wrong tree.

Excellent, more people who can't read

I wish Battlemod could save logs like Kparse cuz Ithere were times where just like Kiba that I parsed against fully buffed WAR DRK MNK SAMs and I was in the top 3 and parsed within 5,000 damage of #1 with Ophidian Lance. In fights where I Spirit Surged and the WAR used Mighty Strikes, I parsed #1. 1:20 seconds of haste cap is a powerful thing. The DRKs in my shell are extremely well geared but for some reason don't parse as high as the math says they should. I believe it's not due to gear but because they tend to die very often either due to poor PDT hybrid habits or slow healers or just playing conservatively to avoid getting stomped by an NM from doing Souleater.

On paper, DRKs have the capacity to parse 30% or higher or whatever but unless you're in the top few LS that have perfect buffers/healers and the DRKs have PDT hybrids and play smart, it's not gonna happen like that. The DRKs in most good(read:not best) LS will still parse ahead of most well geared DRGs but not nearly as much as advertised. Simply having Bereaver and good gear won't automatically make the DRK parse 30% higher than an Ophidian DRG if that DRK dies halfway through the fight, or is too afraid of dying to use Souleater or uses the wrong sub.

Although I started this thread I agree.. I was hoping to hear good things like "id never farm without a drg." But I was disappointed :(

On paper yes DRG is inferior to DRK and WAR by a substantial margin, but then there's the player experience(i'm avoid using the word skill, because it's not even skill its just playability; skill suggests some form of talent).

I think nobody will disagree that there are many well geared DRK SAM MNK WARs, extremely well geared even, that simply derp and forget to use JAs when they're up, do not have optimized WS/TP/PDT sets, will WS or use Berserk while they have hate, won't swap to a hybrid or full pdt while being hit, don't have RR so they waste more time being dead and making healers waste time to raise them(unless its arise but thats not always readily available in plasm farming) etc.

I'd rather invite a well geared and reliable PUP or DRG or BST that know wtf they're doing and how to not suck and die, than an aggressive albeit reckless DRK or WAR that stacks LR/Berserk/Souleater and does a 9k WS to an NM then dies 4 seconds later without so much as even throwing out a stun or a weapon bash or a third eye, and doesn't have RR.

It's been said several times, this isn't about the player. It's about the job itself. What people are saying is that drg as a job has several inherent disadvantages that are difficult or incredibly expensive to overcome and in many cases can still fall short even with the best player and best gear. That's why people keep talking about "Anecdotal references". Just because X beats Y in situation A does not mean X > Y. It simply means there was a stark player/gear difference or some other situational event that occurred, such as Y dying in the middle of the zerg(regardless of who's fault it is).

I don't know why the player keeps getting brought up. The player playing the job does not matter at all when it comes to JOB RANKING. We aren't ranking the player here!

This is where you should have stopped typing. Nobody asked if a good DRG was better than poor DRKs and WARs. There's nothing logical about that comparison. "What if this player is better than this player?" doesn't favor lesser jobs, it applies to all jobs equally.

Unless you and the guy dickwaving his boss kills like they mean something have a more compelling case to make, I'm done.

DRG is fun; play it if you want. It's still substantially worse than the alternatives unless you slip into the Angon slot for lengthy fights.

Oh and this... Just kinda irritates me. Of course skill suggests talent and both matter. The ability to quickly react, predict or otherwise be awesome in any given situation to do your job is a skill and requires talent. It requires knowing how your job works knowing the benefits and costs of any action and making snappy decisions on what is the best action to take. It also means learning from mistakes and knowing that certain combinations of actions work better than others in a given situation and rely on other's roles and actions as well. Playing is often a fight against the R.N.G. and sometimes it can be a *** but knowing this and being prepared for variables makes you a better player.

Of course in winning any fight, there's plenty of room to make mistakes and take wrong actions though, but if you want to be the best, pioneer the hardest things and be epic, the amount of mistakes you can make are significantly reduced and that's where the really talented excel. Hell, talent can be as simple as knowing how to organize your macros for the fastest and most efficient playing or even picking gear sets for certain situations and actions.

Sorry... Rant off.

As a guy who is actually allowed to play on DRG during endgame events - the answer is it depends.

All the DRG haters can politely piss off here. Sorry if you had a bad day or what ever it is that would make people talk to other people so rudely over a stupid game.

Datian, you're a top tier DRK, so yes, you probably aren't getting much competition from DRGs.. you probably don't get much competition from most of the DRKs in your pug groups though either.

Bottom line is this, if you want to hang with DRKs, you need to know exactly what you're doing.. I'd say your gear needs to be in the top 90% and skill level being even higher tiered than that. You will need one of these 4 weapons: 99gungnir, 99ryu, upukirex, or ophidian trident(the easist of them to get).

Ophidian 6-hitter is excellent, though I agree with most that they were on the pipe for that decision. With Ophi 6 hit and decent jump sets you will compete with SAMs for WS frequency and if you know how to properly WS, you will do damage comparable to a DRK. Mind you, DRG isn't going to beat a top notch DRK with a bereaver, but they will be close and have other abilities to sweeten the pot.. like backup heals, angon for those pesky def stacking mobs/nms.

Truth be told to the original poster, yes, it's much easier to be a DRK. You can full time one set of gear and a bereaver and do pretty good damage.. if you really break it down. Most people are ignorant towards DRG as well, and I've found that you have to "earn" the right to play it.

Really, the question you need to ask is.. outside of which job do you like better... is do you want the easy path or the hard path? If you want an easy in to Delve as a DD, pick DRK.

Before you start calling me a liar, I parse with DRKs nightly. They do win 95% of the time, but I keep up with them and am not losing by much and I have beaten them on occasion.

Your endgame ls does delve farm runs nightly? Sounds like a waste of time.

In a Delve boss scenario(which favors DRG immensely),

Gungnir is ~46% behind Bereaver; Ophidian Trident is ~34% behind Bereaver; Ryunohige and Upukirex are ~15% behind Bereaver

And when you take the army of buffers out of the equation(roaming Delve content), your attack deficit starts to matter again

It isn't about what's easier, it's about being objective. Anecdotes and parses are meaningless. DRG is notably worse in every sense, and as an enthusiast myself, I implore you to accept that and continue to play the job you enjoy in silence.

Bigger waste of time to need to point out that I said endgame events, as in all of them, and never said anything about doing delve every night.

This thread isn't supposed to be about whether you love DRG or hate it, the guy asked if it's feasible in Delve. The answer is yes, it's feasible in all content. DRK is much easier.

This answers the question(s) asked.

DRK is much better

If you're going feign credibility, stop equivocating ease and proficiency. They don't mean the same thing.

Should just spreadsheet and post number!

Bereaver 973, Upukirex 828, Ryunohige 821, Ophidian Trident 639, Gungnir 522

Delve boss scenario(capped accuracy, capped attack)

DRK on paper is much better. DRK in reality is not going to come anywhere near the numbers you posted. I am never going to lose to a DRK by 30%.. ever. So if that is feigning credibility then I'm guilty. I'm just an equivocator over here.

In reality, a good DRK and a good DRG are more like 8-10% apart, that's without pet damage.

His question was if it's useful in delve though. Not whether you think DRK is better than DRG. I would never say DRG is better than DRK, but I will stick to my guns that a good DRG can hang with DRKs.

If the poster is asking a question such as this, then ease and proficiency DO matter.

Fact: It would be easier to get into Delve as a DRK.
Fact: Most pugs will still take a DRG. Note the use of most and not all. If they know you are proficient as a DRG, more will take you.
Fact: The numbers you're posting are strictly "on paper" numbers and are NEARLY NEVER going to come out like that, specifically for reasons that Ophan stated.

That's odd. In the Upukirex vs Ryu comparisons I did, Upu only came out ahead if acc/atk were Uncapped.

But then, this was right after the polearm stats were first seen, and not on delve bosses(No idea what boss stats look like).

In a reality where that DRK is worse than you

You don't understand how theory translates to practice. Kindly leave until you do.

Numbers there are pretty close, but no doubt there's some differences in the gear sets being used.

I'll check again, but everything seems to match up with all previous comparisons I've ever run.

Also, how does the spreadsheet account for keeping AM3 up? Is there a % of the time AM3 is up factor or a 300% tp + X amount of time used for reapplying?

I just shut off Jumps/Meditate for Ryunohige simulations. Assuming they're only used for reapplication isn't a perfect reflection, but at worst it gives other setups an minor advantage

Ah, that's probably the main difference, then. When I first compared them, I was still in the ADL/ less than 3 min fights mindset. Wasn't too worried about accounting for AM3 renewal.

In those short fights, Ryunohige probably comes out slightly ahead

Though I'd kill for an Upukirex, as long as I'm to be honest. <1% difference in exchange for having to pay attention 10x less is pretty attractive

Enjoy your spreadsheets, I've got better things to do than argue with your 100% perfect theory. Clearly there is no argument possible, because your spreadsheets are never going to be wrong and there will never be any degree of human error.

If the key to winning an argument is to ignore all other points, than you have won. Congratulations.

Just out of curiosity, what are you using for boss stats/debuffs?

Human error applies to all parties concerned, not just the DRG, and is therefor an irrelevant aspect of the comparison

Like I said: learn how theory applies to practice before continuing to participate in the discussion

900 DEF, 870 EVA, 150 VIT/AGL were the stats I used, I believe. I'd have to check on buffs when I'm home again.