Subjob For RUN?

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Subjob for RUN?
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 Phoenix.Neosutrax
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By Phoenix.Neosutrax 2013-03-28 00:23:31
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I'm sure we'll flush this out with time, as we start seeing the best event/use for these new jobs, but I was curious what initial subjobs people were thinking?

The first one that comes to mind for me is /sam.

If the job can actually maximize parry/evasion, and combine that with some substantial enhancing magic buffs and Runes, then Seigan could actually be a reliable and effective tanking system.

I see RUN as an exceptional low man tank/dd job, but failing a bit as the mob level gets higher (thereby negating a lot of the evasion benefits). Also, as mob level gets higher, the incredible loss of attack RUN has (compared to Drk or War) will start to show pretty considerably in the Resolution damage.

Thus my initial guess is:

RUN/SAM, used in lower man events like Skirmish and such.

I could see it shifting to more of a light DD/debuffer in heavier mob fights.

Thoughts?
 Asura.Baroma
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By Asura.Baroma 2013-03-28 00:26:31
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Since its a tank job, i would say /war or /nin or since its magical based, /rdm might would be worth it.
 Bahamut.Cantontai
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By Bahamut.Cantontai 2013-03-28 00:30:08
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I would tend to agree about /Sam for low man, /war for alliance content.

I seriously cannot imagine /RDM though, doesn't RUN have access to phalanx and refresh natively?
 Shiva.Tumahab
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By Shiva.Tumahab 2013-03-28 00:35:15
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This might be a bad idea, but I did see a few Rune Fencer's subbing Monk. When you think about it, it wouldn't be bad with Counterstance now that it only reduces defense by 1/2, and with it's innate parrying capability and Foil, as well as access to a good amount of Evasion gear, not to mention Max HP boost from /mnk.

I could be totally wrong on this.lol But it seems like it wouldn't be bad on paper.
 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-03-28 00:37:07
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/mnk sounds like a terrible idea imho. It's gonna tank via flash and dmg, so /sam or /war I would think, as suggested.
 Phoenix.Neosutrax
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By Phoenix.Neosutrax 2013-03-28 00:40:16
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Asura.Baroma said: »
Since its a tank job, i would say /war or /nin or since its magical based, /rdm might would be worth it.

/nin is pretty inferior for tanking these days beyond a specific set of mobs and really offers nothing to 2 hand DDs.

/war really only adds provoke and defender (as far as tanking goes). The added Double Attack and Zerk would be nice, but the Zerk would further lower your defense and be potentially dangerous on a tank job with the new damage equation change.
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By Asura.Baroma 2013-03-28 00:46:25
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Hmm Good points. So what about /dnc? the steps would come in handy, i would think.
 Shiva.Tumahab
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By Shiva.Tumahab 2013-03-28 00:47:34
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Right, I suppose /mnk wouldn't really offer a secondary way to take hate as /war would offer. I bet the job abilities it gets will have high enmity values, like the Effusion: Lunge and Gambit, just as Paladin has shield bash and sentinel.
 Bahamut.Cantontai
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By Bahamut.Cantontai 2013-03-28 00:51:09
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/dnc is for Dynamis and soloing ***, not 2h DDs who are trying to hold hate. The benefits of /Sam far outweigh anything /dnc brings to the table.
 Ragnarok.Goldnboy
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By Ragnarok.Goldnboy 2013-03-28 00:55:05
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/PLD for higher DEF possible
 Asura.Karbuncle
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By Asura.Karbuncle 2013-03-28 01:00:09
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Think its safe to assume that its going to be WAR or SAM like every 2handed job in the game that hits things with the pointy end of their weapon, tank or otherwise.

It'll have niche subjobs like DNC and RDM for god knows what, but for the most part... its going to be WAR or SAM
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 Ragnarok.Puchu
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By Ragnarok.Puchu 2013-03-28 02:03:20
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Ragnarok.Goldnboy said: »
/PLD for higher DEF possible

Better /blu for Cocoon so.
 Bismarck.Suzukan
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By Bismarck.Suzukan 2013-03-28 02:11:39
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Run can use axes & swords seems to be A or A+. so /dnc can be used & Dual wield them. Just an option
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-03-28 08:03:47
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Asura.Karbuncle said: »
Think its safe to assume that its going to be WAR or SAM like every 2handed job in the game that hits things with the pointy end of their weapon, tank or otherwise.

It'll have niche subjobs like DNC and RDM for god knows what, but for the most part... its going to be WAR or SAM

Back ye foul logic, back I say. Do not infest us with yon reason and rational. We shall not contend with ye interfering with our COSPLAY and fantasy.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-03-28 08:09:10
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Most likely /sam. It just offers so much for a 2handed job.

Don't forget anyway /drk is an option too now due to Last Resort working subbed, so I'd think that's alright for zerg stuff(like vw).
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-03-28 08:20:42
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Most likely /sam. It just offers so much for a 2handed job.

Don't forget anyway /drk is an option too now due to Last Resort working subbed, so I'd think that's alright for zerg stuff(like vw).


Did SE actually implement that this update? I saw it was something they were thinking about implementing but didn't see it in the update notes.

If it's +15% attack +15% JA Haste for 3min with a 5min recast then you'll be using that everytime it's up. It's simply too big a hate boost not to.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-03-28 08:22:10
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They didn't yet?
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By Artemicion 2013-03-28 08:23:53
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Most likely /sam. It just offers so much for a 2handed job.

Don't forget anyway /drk is an option too now due to Last Resort working subbed, so I'd think that's alright for zerg stuff(like vw).

The question is, how much will Hasso/Seigan interfere with spellcasting? Granted, the spells available thus far seem relatively intermittent, but for a long fight, it could prove troublesome in certain scenarios.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-03-28 08:29:14
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Enhancing spells are nothing to spam. Flash and Foil are likely the only things you want to use often and the latter should be up in time either way, leaving only Flash on a longer recast...but who cares, ja haste or third counter are a big deal. Besides the other things sam gives.
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-03-28 08:34:34
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Assuming 25% gear haste and just the haste spell (+15%) your looking at going from 40 to 50% haste. That's a flat 25% increase in DPS which may or may not beat what /WAR gives. RUN seems to be an attack deficient job which depending on buffs could be a big issue with Resolution (-15% attack penalty). Semi-good news is that RUN has access to Ruinator (+35% attack boost), so going /NIN + suppa would be a very interesting setup. Would really boil down to what axes' they had access to and if any of them were decent.
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-03-28 08:35:52
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itchi508 said: »
Off topic but are they allowing Run Geo to enter Absyea? Really hopeing not, we heard they wouldnt but was that true? Or are goin goin to see 99s already leaching like it has been the past year+

I've heard absolutely nothing of this sort. Any anyhow you could still do AFK leach book burns for the exact same result.

Seeing as I've already seen a level 70 RUN, I HIGHLY doubt SE restricted them from Abyssea.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-03-28 08:36:37
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I think Breidox is the best available atm?
 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2013-03-28 08:37:42
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Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Artemicion said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Most likely /sam. It just offers so much for a 2handed job.

Don't forget anyway /drk is an option too now due to Last Resort working subbed, so I'd think that's alright for zerg stuff(like vw).

The question is, how much will Hasso/Seigan interfere with spellcasting? Granted, the spells available thus far seem relatively intermittent, but for a long fight, it could prove troublesome in certain scenarios.

What do you want to cast? Also if you really NEED to cast, you can just take down hasso/seigan and re-use it after.

There's a significant delay between taking it down and the cast time penalty going away. Enough of one so that you wouldn't save any time by doing this unless you were going to cast multiple spells before putting hasso or seigan back up. And the penalty is huge (50% increase in both cast and recast) so I could find that becoming incredibly annoying.
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2013-03-28 08:40:41
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I would see run subbing war or drk over sam. The builds I've been tooling around with all day (since we found out what run could wear) is looking like 6 hit /war or /drk. You're going to need berserk or last resort to overcome the "still higher than drg" attack on run and this will avoid the problem of hasso/seigan entirely. This is what I've poked through so far and I'm tweaking it every few hours:

This landing 4/5 hits:

ItemSet 294207

will 6 hit(5 hits following 4/5 hit landing ws with above set) with this:

ItemSet 294352
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By Artemicion 2013-03-28 08:41:57
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Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Artemicion said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Most likely /sam. It just offers so much for a 2handed job.

Don't forget anyway /drk is an option too now due to Last Resort working subbed, so I'd think that's alright for zerg stuff(like vw).

The question is, how much will Hasso/Seigan interfere with spellcasting? Granted, the spells available thus far seem relatively intermittent, but for a long fight, it could prove troublesome in certain scenarios.

What do you want to cast? Also if you really NEED to cast, you can just take down hasso/seigan and re-use it after.

There's a significant delay between taking it down and the cast time penalty going away. Enough of one so that you wouldn't save any time by doing this unless you were going to cast multiple spells before putting hasso or seigan back up. And the penalty is huge (50% increase in both cast and recast) so I could find that becoming incredibly annoying.

True, but as noted, there are only a few select spells that would be worth casting whenever available, and luckily the recast for hasso and seigan are generally short enough to allow for cancellation casting and subsequent recast. But assuming one is going to tank, it would be impractical to lengthen cast time and hinder recasts.
 
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By itchi508 2013-03-28 09:13:18
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Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
itchi508 said: »
Off topic but are they allowing Run Geo to enter Absyea? Really hopeing not, we heard they wouldnt but was that true? Or are goin goin to see 99s already leaching like it has been the past year+

I've heard absolutely nothing of this sort. Any anyhow you could still do AFK leach book burns for the exact same result.

Seeing as I've already seen a level 70 RUN, I HIGHLY doubt SE restricted them from Abyssea.
/sigh
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