Better GUI Customization

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Better GUI Customization
 Siren.Wiccaan
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By Siren.Wiccaan 2009-06-11 20:19:21
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Rather then having things static based on where the developers want to keep things, let users move things around. Not just that as well, but allow us to show more info straight upfront rather then burring things into useless menus that we honestly could care less about if we have macros to handle it.

Why limit us to stuff on the screen if we have commands that will show us the info as well and can be macroed.

A prime example in FFXI would be recast timers. They are kept inside the menu rather then on screen, but can be accessed using /recast in a macro or just typing it by hand.

Stuff like this we should be given the option to have on screen, and movable if need be.

One of the main reasons people land up using third-party tools is because of limitations like this.
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 Odin.Karusan
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By Odin.Karusan 2009-06-11 21:09:33
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Wiccaan said:

... because of limitations like this.

I'm gonna flog a dead horse here. PS2 Limitations and 10 year old code. Only saying because you asked the question of why when the answer is obvious and nothing can be done about it current game.

Again though, I agree but I think it'll be guaranteed.
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 Siren.Wiccaan
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By Siren.Wiccaan 2009-06-11 21:17:32
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Karusan said:
Wiccaan said:

... because of limitations like this.

I'm gonna flog a dead horse here. PS2 Limitations and 10 year old code. Only saying because you asked the question of why when the answer is obvious and nothing can be done about it current game.

Again though, I agree but I think it'll be guaranteed.


Saying PS2 limitations for this isn't really a valid response. PS2 can easily be altered (code wise inside of FFXI) to change where things get rendered. Such as moving the party list somewhere else on the screen. Sure it will get limited to where can you move things, and how customized you can make them, but it's not impossible nor due to PS2s limitations as to why it wasn't/hasn't been done in FFXI.

Along with that rendering text, as long as the engine is coded properly, will not kill performance unless you are going absolutely nuts with the amount drawn. Something like recast timers, buff timers, etc. wouldn't hurt the performance on PS2.
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 Odin.Karusan
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By Odin.Karusan 2009-06-11 21:25:04
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It's not so much that the PS2 couldn't do it but that coding change that would need to be implemented would then detract from performance. What I mean is that instead of being say (and this is going to be stupidly understated) 10 lines to represent what you're seeing visually, you're going to have upwards of 100 lines to handle placements, alignments, collision mapping etc. Something that seems simple turns into something really complex and I guarantee you will detract from the performance of other areas of the game.

Something I only just realised before when I was typing what I said above was that even though FFXI is 7 years old, the game would have been in production for 2-3 years. The 1999 era just didn't have an option where you could change what you're looking at and people accepted it. It's only a more recent thing.

But we're off on a tangent because PS2 is last gen and this gen as I said you can almost guarantee that the GUI will be customisable.
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 Siren.Wiccaan
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By Siren.Wiccaan 2009-06-11 21:45:14
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Karusan said:
It's not so much that the PS2 couldn't do it but that coding change that would need to be implemented would then detract from performance. What I mean is that instead of being say (and this is going to be stupidly understated) 10 lines to represent what you're seeing visually, you're going to have upwards of 100 lines to handle placements, alignments, collision mapping etc. Something that seems simple turns into something really complex and I guarantee you will detract from the performance of other areas of the game.

Something I only just realised before when I was typing what I said above was that even though FFXI is 7 years old, the game would have been in production for 2-3 years. The 1999 era just didn't have an option where you could change what you're looking at and people accepted it. It's only a more recent thing.

But we're off on a tangent because PS2 is last gen and this gen as I said you can almost guarantee that the GUI will be customisable.


Alignment in no way will take up 100 lines of code. Setting an X,Y coord to tell something to start drawing at a point all depends on the backend code of the object being drawn. Alignment is entirely based on a calculation from a starting point given on the screen.

For example, the party list in FFXI. It is told to start drawing at a given X,Y coord based on your screens resolution. Each entry inside the list is then given a start X,Y based on a calculation from the actual boxes starting point. I can assure you this doesn't take much code at all, and actually improves performance when doing things in a calculation thats used multiple times based on an offset.

As for collision detection in the GUI, thats the point of making it customizable, if you sit something on top of another thing, thats your own fault. Move it around so it doesn't, it's not up to the game developers to fix your own mistakes at that point, its entirely up to the user.
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 Odin.Karusan
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By Odin.Karusan 2009-06-11 21:47:34
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I'm not going into it any more coz it's pointless lol :P
 Odin.Blazza
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By Odin.Blazza 2009-06-12 01:26:10
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Ignoring the whole conversation in this thread, the OP is a good idea which I kind of expect to be included anyway. But if SE doesn't realise the importance of adding damn near everything windower offers us now as standard then they'll be making some pretty big mistakes.

That's in relation to /recast more than anything.
 Garuda.Feifongwong
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By Garuda.Feifongwong 2009-06-12 01:38:28
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Blazza said:
Ignoring the whole conversation in this thread, the OP is a good idea which I kind of expect to be included anyway. But if SE doesn't realise the importance of adding damn near everything windower offers us now as standard then they'll be making some pretty big mistakes.

That's in relation to /recast more than anything.


They better at least let us see each other's TP -.-; Assuming the battle system has TP lol!
 Odin.Blazza
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By Odin.Blazza 2009-06-12 02:45:53
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Yeah, as I said, they really should include most of what windower options, and tparty is probably the biggest used parts of windower... In fact, I rely on that one so much I forgot it was even a windower add-on.
 Garuda.Feifongwong
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By Garuda.Feifongwong 2009-06-12 03:19:02
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Blazza said:
Yeah, as I said, they really should include most of what windower options, and tparty is probably the biggest used parts of windower... In fact, I rely on that one so much I forgot it was even a windower add-on.


It's just ridiculous to have skill chains but not let us see each others TP. Honestly THAT is exactly why nobody uses skill chains now. Forced people to find strategies that don't use skill chains.
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By Odin.Blazza 2009-06-12 03:23:36
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Feifongwong said:
Blazza said:
Yeah, as I said, they really should include most of what windower options, and tparty is probably the biggest used parts of windower... In fact, I rely on that one so much I forgot it was even a windower add-on.


It's just ridiculous to have skill chains but not let us see each others TP. Honestly THAT is exactly why nobody uses skill chains now. Forced people to find strategies that don't use skill chains.

No it's not, everyone uses windower now so that point is moot. People don't use skill chains now because they're lazy. We organise skillchains on sky gods and have the (good) BLM's MB them and it makes the fight a LOT quicker.

Regardless of not being able to see each others tp, the ONLY reason for not doing SC's is laziness imo.
 Garuda.Feifongwong
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By Garuda.Feifongwong 2009-06-12 03:48:32
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Blazza said:
Feifongwong said:
Blazza said:
Yeah, as I said, they really should include most of what windower options, and tparty is probably the biggest used parts of windower... In fact, I rely on that one so much I forgot it was even a windower add-on.


It's just ridiculous to have skill chains but not let us see each others TP. Honestly THAT is exactly why nobody uses skill chains now. Forced people to find strategies that don't use skill chains.

No it's not, everyone uses windower now so that point is moot. People don't use skill chains now because they're lazy. We organise skillchains on sky gods and have the (good) BLM's MB them and it makes the fight a LOT quicker.

Regardless of not being able to see each others tp, the ONLY reason for not doing SC's is laziness imo.


I don't lol, I know a lot of people that don't. But I do agree now that you said it, pure laziness lol
 Odin.Blazza
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By Odin.Blazza 2009-06-12 04:01:04
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Well, another part of it is the ToAU tp burn style. Full haste sets and being able to tp every 30 seconds or something stupid makes it not worth-while to hold your tp and try and time it with other people. And the bigger your alliance the longer you have to hold it as 2-3 people will SC, wait for MB, 2-3 more etc. etc.

So it's kinda unfair for me to say it's complete laziness when there's also an inefficiency factor as well. But the larger the mob the more you should be SC'ing.
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 Unicorn.Laraul
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By Unicorn.Laraul 2010-02-12 02:26:16
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Siren.Wiccaan said:
Rather then having things static based on where the developers want to keep things, let users move things around. Not just that as well, but allow us to show more info straight upfront rather then burring things into useless menus that we honestly could care less about if we have macros to handle it.

Why limit us to stuff on the screen if we have commands that will show us the info as well and can be macroed.

A prime example in FFXI would be recast timers. They are kept inside the menu rather then on screen, but can be accessed using /recast in a macro or just typing it by hand.

Stuff like this we should be given the option to have on screen, and movable if need be.

One of the main reasons people land up using third-party tools is because of limitations like this.

... and yet many many players use the 360 and PS3 versions of the game... without these enhancements. You don't hear them complaining. Why? Cuz it's not an important issue. The UI has it's flaws... but if all you can suggest is adding recast timers on the screen then you should just ask for it. Not for a customizable UI.

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