The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

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The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide
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 Sylph.Reain
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By Sylph.Reain 2019-07-18 11:09:32
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I don't know if anyone mentioned it yet but Square-Enix posted the Innin augment on the official forums.

1) Koga Hatsuburi +2 / Mochizuki Hatsuburi / Mochizuki Hatsuburi +1 / Mochizuki Hatsuburi +2 / Mochizuki Hatsuburi +3

The “Enhances Innin Effect” was missing from the help text of the above items.
While under the effect of Innin, this stat will grant a bonus to weapon skill damage when striking from behind.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/55654-July-2019-FINAL-FANTASY-XI-Digest?p=618119&viewfull=1#post618119

Which makes me think they hate Ninja. Literally changed relic head augment so we'd have 2 heads with WS damage to go with our 2 legs. lol

I'd imagine it makes Mochizuki Hatsuburi +3 > Hachiya hatsuburi +3 while under the effect of Innin from behind for hybrid weapon skills. But I don't know if MAB+61 was better than WS Damage+10 already for them. Nor the amount of WS Damage the augment gives. I assume you have to WS in the relic head to get the bonus.

Edit. Quick testing puts the augment at +5% WS damage (with 5/5 Innin merits) and requires you to be Weapon skilling in the augmented Relic Head and you must be behind with Innin active.
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By Nariont 2019-07-18 11:55:00
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Was covered last page. Pretty clear SE doesnt play their own game or if they do its in such a casual manner that they have different idea of what a job does/uses, between taking away the +25% dmg and slapping it off the 1 nuke piece of the set, its pretty funny.

Could simply swap the augs around and youd have your best nuking head and potentially best wsd boots when innin is active/positions right but nah
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-07-18 12:20:48
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Several JPs asked to swap Augs around but, to my knowledge, SE don't reply to any of those yet.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-07-18 13:15:33
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If you think this is something, wait until they upgrade empyrean+3 and the innin bonus to zukin is.... Additional wsd.
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2019-07-18 16:53:09
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Ignoring what the head used to do (as I too greatly preferred that functionality), I can't say I'm completely displeased with having a +WSD boost on the head for hybrid WS. It was already the superior option for that over the AF1.

It is pretty crazy that they *** up what was supposed to be a purely positive, if not particularly drastic, job adjustment. I think what they need to do is just get rid of the Ninjutsu Expertise merits and make them a standard job trait, which would make placing the relic augments an easier task.
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By FaeQueenCory 2019-07-18 19:40:12
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
If you think this is something, wait until they upgrade empyrean+3 and the innin bonus to zukin is.... Additional wsd.
I know you're not cereal. But if anything is getting the WSdmg term, it's the body.

Though after this last update even I am not 100% sure on that.
 Sylph.Khirali
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By Sylph.Khirali 2019-07-20 12:10:24
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Asura.Saevel said: »
It's another DD, pretty decent and has low hate buildup. We've been experimenting with dirge lately and the results of -enmity on DDs has been dramatic. Innins built in reduction should let NINs stay behind the boss for extra damage.

That's quite interesting. Are you stacking it with animus minuo?
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By Asura.Bayonette 2019-07-23 10:37:51
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Read back a few pages looking at offhand options. I’ll soon be mainhanding Aeonic, so i rolled a nice Kanaria. Other options include Kaja/Gokotai, Su4 katana or Shigi. I see no one really mentioned Shigi, even though the 77 acc is quite the chunk. Is Shigi just really bad because of the lower delay/ tp gain reduction, or because other than acc it offers no offensive boosts?
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By FaeQueenCory 2019-07-23 10:50:12
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Asura.Bayonette said: »
Is Shigi just really bad because of the lower delay/ tp gain reduction, or because other than acc it offers no offensive boosts?
It's that -10 enmity. At least for me and most others. Kinda gimps any chance at holding hate with that.
Plus it doesn't have much of anything but that Acc term... which Gokotai matches and gives you other more useful things (decent nuking option, WSmod stats, Macc, attack and ranged attack, etc).

The lower delay is kinda moot since you're not losing a massive amount of TP/hit from the difference between a 227 and a 190. At least not enough that the massive TA rate we have now wouldn't make up for it.

If your acc goes to ***from losing out on 30 acc, you didn't have enough acc to begin with.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-07-23 11:21:46
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FaeQueenCory said: »
Asura.Bayonette said: »
Is Shigi just really bad because of the lower delay/ tp gain reduction, or because other than acc it offers no offensive boosts?
It's that -10 enmity. At least for me and most others. Kinda gimps any chance at holding hate with that.
Plus it doesn't have much of anything but that Acc term... which Gokotai matches and gives you other more useful things (decent nuking option, WSmod stats, Macc, attack and ranged attack, etc).

The lower delay is kinda moot since you're not losing a massive amount of TP/hit from the difference between a 227 and a 190. At least not enough that the massive TA rate we have now wouldn't make up for it.

If your acc goes to ***from losing out on 30 acc, you didn't have enough acc to begin with.

The -enmity would be a bonus for DDs as less hate means more time behind the boss.

Nins a ***tank these days, blink tanking died a decade ago anyways.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-07-23 12:48:22
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It's just an accuracy swap, but it's outdated. We have Tauret now which is superior. The enmity loss is negligible and probably helpful. You can keep it around when doing wave 3 monks or thieves, but it's just an inferior weapon to other choices. It only adds accuracy, where other weapons add more. Personally, I like swapping between tauret low delay and gokotai since it also adds racc. I also keep Kanaria around for when I'm pretty much superbuffed, as the TA and STP are still useful.

End game ninja is all about spreading out your stats evenly for a well balanced DPS. Since NIN has no real native buffs outside of Innin, it needs all the help it can get in many areas. You'll need attack, accuracy, store TP, multi attack, ranged attack, ranged accuracy, Dex/agi, crit, subtle blow etc. All of Ninja's primary gear has great spreads on all of that. When you're underbuffed, every stat matters and you should gear accordingly with the best available sets. Shigi is still somewhat of a useful swap when you need acc, but it's really not much more acc than Gokotai, and you can probably afford to make more meaningful swaps elsewhere rather than the weapon (Olseni Belt, Rings)
 Asura.Bayonette
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By Asura.Bayonette 2019-07-23 14:37:37
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Thanks all. I think I’ll go with the Gokotai. The heavy spread of stats really seems ideal. And it glows.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-07-23 17:32:08
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I initially underestimated it, but it has been my go-to NIN offhand when im worried about my racc. It's very good for everything.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-07-23 21:57:36
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I initially underestimated it, but it has been my go-to NIN offhand when im worried about my racc. It's very good for everything.

Yeah I think it's one of NIN's better weapons too. Great for Chi / etc.
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 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2019-07-25 12:42:05
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Tauret is usually better than Gokotai. They have the same Acc/Atk/Macc/MAB/MDmg/DEX stats. Tauret advantage is much lower delay (higher WS frequency). Gokotai advantages are Racc+40 stat and NIN's inherently higher Katana skill (A+ katana versus C+ dagger, a difference of 46 skill). Worth noting that the skill difference only applies to your offhand hits, while listed weapon stats like Acc/DEX apply to both hands.

If you're really struggling on melee/ranged accuracy, Gokotai could win. However, for a job like NIN where you are probably rocking a lot of Acc/Racc in your other standard TP gear (Ken+1 set, Adhemar+1 hands, etc.) and getting some level of buffs, this might not be an issue. It tends not to be for me in most situations where I use NIN. Also, take care not to overrate the impact of Racc - it's something, but remember that's it's only applying when Daken procs in the first place for a single throw per attack round (not much of a contest as far as overall TP gain goes, versus the delay advantage of dagger). It really comes down more to whether your melee accuracy is OK.


FaeQueenCory said: »
Asura.Bayonette said: »
Is Shigi just really bad because of the lower delay/ tp gain reduction, or because other than acc it offers no offensive boosts?
It's that -10 enmity. At least for me and most others. Kinda gimps any chance at holding hate with that.

If you want to keep hate, Enm-10 really isn't THAT big of a deal when you're in Yonin and able to spam Utsusemi. It shouldn't cause a major difference in whether or not you can hold a mob. That being said, it's still better to offhand Shuhansadamune for tanking purposes - mainly due to the way Shigi's recast -3 calculation works with total haste (effectively means you're really only getting a tiny recast reduction, <1 sec). If it was really 3 seconds off the final recast after haste is applied, Shigi would be killer for tanking since Utsu casting is a bit part of how you hold hate on NIN (and Migawari recast is never a bad thing either for a tanking NIN). This was discussed somewhere in the past couple months in this thread after I was curious about Shigi and Sechs noted the delay -3 in the item description is somewhat deceptive.

Offensively, Shigi has generally been eclipsed as a high end acc offhand option thanks to Ambuscade dagger/katana and Su4~5.

Asura.Saevel said: »
Nins a ***tank these days, blink tanking died a decade ago anyways.

This is also pretty accurate in most situations, though blink/Migawari tanking does still have some niche moments where it's pretty useful. Halphas is the best relatively current example, and sometimes in Ambu it also pops up.
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By FaeQueenCory 2019-07-25 15:28:59
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
If you want to keep hate, Enm-10 really isn't THAT big of a deal when you're in Yonin and able to spam Utsusemi.
They changed how gear enmity works a few years ago. Now more -enmity increases the speed at which your enmity decays. (Though to my knowledge no one has ever tried to find the in/decrease rate 1 enmity has... though I wouldn't be shocked if it's just the 1:1% like it is for actions.)

So it's not minimal as it used to be, and since enmity+ gear is more than suboptimal to idle/TP in on NIN... it's effectively an enmity sink.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-07-25 15:53:16
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I wouldn't say "Tauret is usually better". It depends.

Gokotai has AGI+15 which will give you an edge if you're a Hi user. Daken is already going to be reasonably high if you're master and using +2 Neck (79% activation rate, so 3/4 attack rounds which is pretty high) and it's going to improve your Sange effectiveness overall if you have that merited. Either way you get burn with it.

I'm kind of at the point where I DON'T like gear that doesn't have racc, just because it's necessary for ninja. Especially for events that would matter. Even soloing, I kind of like using RCB, so the extra bonus for things like UNM are pretty nice. It's a small thing and it can easily be overlooked, but I notice every single daken miss and it irks me when that one shuriken would have completed my TP round.

Separately from the offhand discussion, Gokotai can also be used as a main hand option, and pairs well with Tauret for a pretty neat Blade: Chi combination, especially if you're not an aeonic owner. It's a really good katana and I regret stating earlier it wasn't that great. Has a lot going for it, even if it's just small bonuses here and there (that seems to be the recurring theme with ninja anyways). Honestly, if they were smart enough to make that DW effect activate in any hand, it would easily be the best option for offhands. THAT would be the one job adjustment I would make to ninja
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-07-25 15:55:40
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If you're going Hi(kannagi etc) then Taka was your go to offhand
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-07-25 16:02:43
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Was. That katana is pretty weak overall compared to gokotai when viewed altogether. You really only get 5 extra AGI and~2 critical hit rate, and it also comes with inferior stats practically everywhere else, including skill, mdmg, macc, mab. My point is that if you're going for an all around katana that hits many areas, gokotai fits that bill. Tauret might be better when you don't need racc, and taka may be better when all you care about is that agi and ONLY doing one WS. Kanaria may be better than all of them if you're capped on acc/racc, depending on the augments you have. But if you had to pick one offhand to fill as close to all of Ninja's uses, Goko.

To put it another way, gokotai saves you the inventory space of having to carry all of those other katanas (keep Tauret with you though)
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By Siren.Kyte 2019-07-25 18:48:47
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FaeQueenCory said: »
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
If you want to keep hate, Enm-10 really isn't THAT big of a deal when you're in Yonin and able to spam Utsusemi.
They changed how gear enmity works a few years ago. Now more -enmity increases the speed at which your enmity decays. (Though to my knowledge no one has ever tried to find the in/decrease rate 1 enmity has... though I wouldn't be shocked if it's just the 1:1% like it is for actions.)

So it's not minimal as it used to be, and since enmity+ gear is more than suboptimal to idle/TP in on NIN... it's effectively an enmity sink.

+/- enmity only decreases/increases the amount of CE you lose when taking damage. It has no effect on VE decay rate.
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2019-07-25 20:10:09
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I think I'm one of the only people here who actually regularly uses Kannagi (and thus Hi being useful for me), and Tauret still does better for me than Gokotai in the vast majority of spreadsheet situatiuons. More frequent WS > AGI+15.

Taka still performs very well too as an offhand to Kannagi. It's really close to Fudo/Tauret/Gokotai, and still a totally fine offhand choice - but obviously more limited overall since it's really only used to pair with Kannagi (whereas the others work for any mainhand).

FaeQueenCory said: »
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
If you want to keep hate, Enm-10 really isn't THAT big of a deal when you're in Yonin and able to spam Utsusemi.
They changed how gear enmity works a few years ago. Now more -enmity increases the speed at which your enmity decays. (Though to my knowledge no one has ever tried to find the in/decrease rate 1 enmity has... though I wouldn't be shocked if it's just the 1:1% like it is for actions.)

So it's not minimal as it used to be, and since enmity+ gear is more than suboptimal to idle/TP in on NIN... it's effectively an enmity sink.

I mean... I've actually used both of Shigi and Shuhansadamune offhand in real play in just the past few months playing with tanking (stuff like Divergence and Ambu, with solid melees getting reasonable buffs). I noticed no significant difference in my ability to keep hate with either offhand. Enm-10 is pretty minor when you're in Yonin and rocking something like a Fudo Masamune C mainhand, like I was.

I'm not arguing that Enm-10 isn't less than desirable when you're tanking, and of course I'd rather not have negative enmity when tanking. But I sure wouldn't say Enm-10 alone disqualifies a weapon for tanking. The reason Shigi doesn't hold up is more that it doesn't really help a lot in other ways. The ninjutsu recast not getting a full 3 seconds reduction after buffs makes it kinda blah, but if it actually did reduce Utsu/Miga recast by a full 3 seconds after buffs I would prefer it over any other tanking offhand.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-07-26 14:15:18
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
More frequent WS > AGI+15.

Fair enough and I appreciate that.

Can you quantify what "More frequent WS" is on the spreadsheet, say in a 3/5/10 minute fight? I'd be interested in seeing how many extra WS you earn over the course of time using Tauret vs Gokotai in various scenarios, since the discussion is frequency vs extra stats.
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By Asura.Taviana 2019-07-29 22:34:14
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I am curious how a DEX 10 DA2% WSD8% Kanaria would fall in the off hand use and if it's something I should keep around.
also I would like to know what a good Ku set WS looks like and what to look for for optimal Ku bonus.
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By Boshi 2019-08-08 22:24:23
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Blade:Hi
ItemSet 353817
-lugra+1 alternate is brutal earring, other ear slot doesn't get beat by nq lugra
-hands path D
-feet: good agi/wsd combo or anything DM wsd6+
-fotia belt wins if you account for tp save

-legs win by a good ammount vs mummu (yes I'm accounting for the set bonus) in all scenarios
-mummu hands have always been fake news
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2019-08-09 01:27:24
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Asura.Taviana said: »
I am curious how a DEX 10 DA2% WSD8% Kanaria would fall in the off hand use and if it's something I should keep around.

Pretty damn good if you're rocking a Kikoku (using Metsu) or Heishi (using Ten) mainhand. Competitive with a good TA+3 offhand Kanaria, but it's going to be a minor difference. FWIW, I just plugged it into a spreadsheet with lv139 mob, normal buffs, good Kikoku/Metsu set... and they were like 4182dps versus 4179dps in the scenario I ran - essentially identical.

I actually have a pretty similar Kanaria, mine's DEX+10 WSD+7% and Racc+20something. As an offhand to my Kikoku with Metsu spam, I've never found it to perform substantially better or worse than my DMG+11 TA+3 STR+9 Acc/Atk+20ish Kanaria - and that's from real world experience comparing myself across parses with same buffs.

The downside: A TA+3 Kanaria is always good as a low-acc offhand. A WSD Kanaria will be a sidegrade to TA+3 for Heishi-Ten or Kikoku-Metsu, but will fall off substantially if you're not using one of those weapon/WS combos. Even on my Kannagi, using a WS in Hi that gets a great deal out of WSD, I find my DEX/WSD offhand falls behind my TA+3 one by a significant amount.

And in any case, you'll still get more out of Fudo/Tauret/Gokotai as offhands in situations where you need acc. But for low Acc, Kanaria's still good.

Boshi said: »
Blade:Hi
ItemSet 353817
-lugra+1 alternate is brutal earring, other ear slot doesn't get beat by nq lugra
-hands path D
-feet: good agi/wsd combo or anything DM wsd6+
-fotia belt wins if you account for tp save

-legs win by a good ammount vs mummu (yes I'm accounting for the set bonus) in all scenarios
-mummu hands have always been fake news

1) Ammo: you forgot the new C.Palug Stone, which finally replaced Yetshila+1.

2) Rings: I tend to get some combo of Gere/Ilabrat/Regal pretty much always winning. Epam (and Kariyeh+1) are close, but they don't seem to crack the top 2 for me in most situations. I really wouldn't sweat it too much with any of these rings though if you're lacking some of the options, they're all good choices and the ranking will vary a bit based on target/buffs/other gear.

3) Hands: Ryuo+1 D are good, and certainly one of the top options... but I disagree with your "fake news" assessment of Mummu+2. Mummu actually win for me in a lot of scenarios - more often than Ryuo+1 win, IMHO. I default to Mummu.

Otherwise, agreed with your set.
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By Boshi 2019-08-10 11:28:35
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messed around with different att values.

for you points

2(rings).) gere always wins so that's locked in. Epa usually wins sometimes ila/regal pull thru ... if another mummu piece mummu comes in play

3(hands).) I still get Ryuo usually winning. Mummu compete really well at low attack but they need a set bonus to do this (can come from ring or feet)

feet.) depending on how much atack herc have mummu is still strong. but assuming enough attack just really need a decent herc foot.

ear2.) nq lugra does beat ishvara at starved att barely .. probably not worth touching.


***for all these situations above where you're that att starved.
That AF hat might not be as sweet as it seems.

especially now with how dynamis mob def works and MT I've replaced WS Acc toggle in all my luas with .Att. Normal set assumes good attack, toggle is for starved att situations which is mainly for dynamis bosses ect.


...
1.
C. Palug is a no, it beats NQ yetshila, but not +1.
with heishi:capped att yet+1 pulling by a bit over 700, uncapped it's still 100 something above
with Kannagi: like 1k difference
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2019-08-10 12:51:59
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Boshi said: »
C. Palug is a no, it beats NQ yetshila, but not +1.
with heishi:capped att yet+1 pulling by a bit over 700, uncapped it's still 100 something above
with Kannagi: like 1k difference

Good stuff, thanks for the correction.

Not sure what I was thinking, cuz you're absolutely right. I imagine I was just overly excited about C.Palug since it finally beats the DEX ammo options in the slot for Metsu/Shun, and my brain just said to throw it in the Hi set too... But yeah, trusty old Yetshila+1 remains.
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By Boshi 2019-08-16 13:01:21
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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/55756-August-2019-FINAL-FANTASY-XI-Digest?p=618898&viewfull=1#post618898

SE announced they're preparing to flip the augment on Red Mage Relic Hands/Feet due to complaints.

Let's get more people complaining about the Ninja Head/Feet
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-08-16 14:10:52
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Damn we really need to do that! Someone make a polite thread!
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By Shiva.Shazo 2019-08-16 15:27:59
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Damn we really need to do that! Someone make a polite thread!

Didn't we do this already?

ENG: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/55666-Possible-error-after-July-2019-patch-%28Ninjutsu-damage%29?p=617883#post617883

JP: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/34206-%E5%BF%8D%E8%80%85%E3%81%AE%E5%BC%B7%E5%8C%96%E8%A6%81%E6%9C%9B%E3%81%AB%E3%81%A4%E3%81%84%E3%81%A6/page34

SE clearly doesn't care about NIN since only a handful of players even bother with NIN. The linked JP post seems to have already noted the incoming RDM changes.
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