The Beast Within -- A Guide To Blue Mage

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The Beast Within -- A Guide to Blue Mage
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 Sylph.Oraen
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By Sylph.Oraen 2018-10-12 11:50:10
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Asura.Toralin said: »
Where does Mirage Stole +2 (25/25) play in TP sets?

Definitely our best option for TP, just not by a huge amount.

I've let some of the sets get outdated as I took an extended break and only just came back to the game this last week. I'll get every set, even including Requiescat, updated by the end of the weekend.
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By Boshi 2018-10-12 12:34:58
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once it's at rank12 i think it's safe to assume it's bis.

gets stp+4 at rank12, if you need attack combatant's (on spreadsheet) tends to win out just cause of att, so stp+4 matches that at least then crit and str should push it above.

crazy acc bonus anyways it probably starts winnging around rank 9ish
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By Boshi 2018-10-12 12:38:08
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Siren.Kyte said: »
Magic Barrier doesn't cap and doesn't have tiers.


Personally, I prefer flooring Occultation's recast rather than maximizing the shadow count.

I agree with this,

It's possible to get 600 skill but all you can do for recast is the empy hands then fc ~10ish? (ammo ear ear and 1 ring?)

There was a discussion recently where someone was grossly underestimating how much fc you need to cap, give me a second and I'll quote add my test under this:

Boshi said: »
Nyarlko said: »
That page hasn't been updated in several years, and does seem rather overcomplicated for what it is. Most players are not going to understand, nor care about, the server-side handling of the math involved. However, the basics are pretty clear.

Haste/Slow from gear/magic are applied directly to the base recast additively. Then 1/2 Fast Cast is applied to the result additively. Then JA modifiers are applied to that result multiplicatively. Don't think that BLU has any JA mods, so it boils down to: BaseRecast - Haste + Slow + .5FC(floored), with a lower limit of .2 for the total.

If/when aiming for capped recast reduction, I just follow the basic rules of combat haste (256/1024 gear + 448/1024 magic) then tack on .5FC(floored) and the oddball direct reduction piece. Sure, it might be possible that I am not actually perfectly capped and sitting at something like .2003 recast time, but I for one am not going to notice 1-2 frames of animation longer on my recasts. XD

For the record though, the following should have your recasts capped for BLU:
Capped gear (+25% applied, +26% on gear to be sure) + Erratic Flutter (+30%) + Might Guard/Marches (+15%) + Hashishin Bazubands+1 (+14%)
OR
Capped gear (+25% applied, +26% on gear to be sure) + Erratic Flutter (+30%) + Hashishin Bazubands+1 (+14%) + FastCast+22% (maybe +24% to be safe and account for specific haste values on gear if you are at exactly +25% there.)

Merely setting Erratic Flutter w/ the 1200JP gift gives you FC+15% to begin with, which means you only have FC+7% to make up for w/ additional JT tiers and/or gear, so it's actually quite easy to cap out recasts on
BLU.
While this works in theorycraft, it does not work in the game.
With Erratic set for fc included.
All spells casts with capped gear haste + erratic + mg :: always with capped magic+gear haste.
all +fc is from gear

Occulation base time: 90seconds
Occultation naked, 0 magic haste: 83 seconds
(take account 15 fc from erratic)
Occulation capped gear haste, 0 magic haste: 62 seconds

following below all have capped magic + gear haste:
Occultation with +0 fc = 25 seconds
Occultation with +0fc + empy hands = 22 seconds

Occultation with +22fc + empy hands = 19 seconds
Occultation with +23fc = 22 seconds
Occultation with +23fc + empy hands = 18 seconds

Occultation with +48fc = 19 seconds
Occultation with +49fc = 18 seconds

18/90= 0.2 (20%) minimal delay.
to make sure this is lowest possible:
Occultation with +72fc and empy hands = 18 seconds

Conclusion:
-With fc+15 from erratic set, under max haste you need +49FC to cap.
-If you are using empy hands you need +23FC more to cap.

-the 14% delay equates to the fc from 26%fc (should be 28%)

So at -capped magic haste- you still need empy hands and +23 fc to cap
 Shiva.Francisco
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By Shiva.Francisco 2018-10-14 22:31:51
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In terms of Colada augments:

Does an ideal Colada to serve as an off-hand to Almace look different than an ideal Colada to serve as a mainhand weapon?

(Also, I assume Tanmogayi's delay and lack of augments make it a far worse off-hand weapon than it was a main hand weapon, yes?)
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By DaneBlood 2018-10-14 23:33:04
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Does reforged Relic feet need to be equipped for diffusion JA or the spell used after diffusion?
 Bismarck.Zuidar
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By Bismarck.Zuidar 2018-10-14 23:37:37
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DaneBlood said: »
Does reforged Relic feet need to be equipped for diffusion JA or the spell used after diffusion?

They need to be equipped during spellcasting to gain the benefit
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 Bahamut.Lordshaxx
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By Bahamut.Lordshaxx 2018-10-15 12:31:15
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Shiva.Francisco said: »
In terms of Colada augments:

Does an ideal Colada to serve as an off-hand to Almace look different than an ideal Colada to serve as a mainhand weapon?

(Also, I assume Tanmogayi's delay and lack of augments make it a far worse off-hand weapon than it was a main hand weapon, yes?)

I would think the ideal looks the same. Only difference is you can afford to give up DMG+ on an offhand with little consequence.

You are correct in Tanmo
 Asura.Chiaia
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By Asura.Chiaia 2018-10-15 17:26:41
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Boshi said: »
Fenrir.Snaps said: »
afaik WSD is calculated using base 10. Bases where 2 is a factor are only used in a select few cases.

nothing in this game is calculated using a decimal system, they just write it that way in the description.

There are a ton of things in game that go by decimal this is completely wrong.

Ramuh.Austar said: »
Boshi said: »
If i had to -guess- I would assume ishvara is something like 4/256 rather than 5/256 making it give only around ~1.5625%wsd. higher wsd# like 10wsd
This appears to be wrong. I went out and did a few asuran to test.
No weapon so 59 base damage with capped fSTR. 95 str and 96 vit gives 28 from WSC. only wsd I had was ear.

(59 + 28) * 3.5 = 304
304 * 1.05 = 319.

I got a 325 for my first single hit asuran.

304 * (1 + 4 / 256) = 308
319 * (1 + 4 / 256) = 323

This doesn't rule out 5/256, though. It could still be base 2 instead, so I'll keep going until I get something out of an expected range.
Using RA WS since they are so much nicer to test with...
Last Stand on a Wild Rabbit
Observed:
Base: 6,440
Earring On: 6,568

Expected:
6440 x 1.02 = 6,568
6440 x (1 + 5 / 256) = 6,565
6440 x (1 + 6 / 256) = 6,590
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2018-10-15 19:13:08
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that eliminates 21 / 1024 and 22 / 1024 as well, so the only answer would be decimal.
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By Boshi 2018-10-15 19:30:03
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I guess I was completely wrong
 Bahamut.Lordshaxx
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By Bahamut.Lordshaxx 2018-10-16 18:26:36
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Boshi said: »
Messing around on the spreadsheet very quickly I got:

Epaminonda's Ring beating both ilabrat at begrudging.
Almace:
capped att: epa w/ epona>begrudging>ilabrat
uncapped att: epa w/ epona>(barely)>ilabrat>begrudging
Tizona:
capped att: epa w/ epona>begrudging>ilabrat
uncapped att: epa w/ ilabrat>begrudging>epona


Where does Karieyh Ring (or +1) fit within these ring rankings?
 Asura.Finbar
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By Asura.Finbar 2018-10-17 02:11:21
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So I often hear talk of Sequence/Almace vs Almace/Sequence from people with no conclusive evidence. Say if both were augmented (hence both losing major advantages they have in the main hand vs the offhand), any idea which combo comes out ahead?
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By Boshi 2018-10-17 09:04:09
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tp bonus on crit ws these days isn't -that- amazing.

Almace/Seq >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seq/alm if cdc spam. (and this was before new augment boost)

the real arguement isn't alm/seq vs seq/alm it's alm/seq vs tiz/alm
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 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-10-17 16:09:00
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I was looking at killer traits on bg-wiki.

On the individual testing, it shows Blue gets Tier 3 of the killer traits.
However, the reference links just point to the old Bst testing.

Does anyone know if Killer traits were ever tested for blu after the 100 jp and 1200 jp gifts?
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2018-10-17 17:04:01
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The values were given by the Devs
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 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-10-17 19:11:24
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Thank you!
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By Afania 2018-10-17 20:38:54
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Asura.Finbar said: »
So I often hear talk of Sequence/Almace vs Almace/Sequence from people with no conclusive evidence. Say if both were augmented (hence both losing major advantages they have in the main hand vs the offhand), any idea which combo comes out ahead?

People talked about sequence because before rema augment and wsd glitch savage blade was a thing. And sequence is made for savage.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Chanceikin 2018-10-17 20:56:58
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For savage, vampirism is likely the better offhand unless I'm missing something. Almace doesn't seem like a good choice for an offhand when spamming savage blade.
 Sylph.Oraen
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By Sylph.Oraen 2018-10-17 21:11:24
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hepatizon sapara +1 is an exceptional option, only really losing to an extremely good STR/WSD Colada. And it's cheap as all Hell.
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By Boshi 2018-10-17 23:42:28
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vamp actually holds up really well if you're lacking attack at all according to the spreadsheet,

I also don't think sheet includes the extremely tiny boost from draining tp
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By DaneBlood 2018-10-18 01:55:56
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Ramuh.Austar said: »
that eliminates 21 / 1024 and 22 / 1024 as well, so the only answer would be decimal.


but not
85899346/4294967296
32bit interger division

32bit interger divison with bit move should still be faster than a float division (to have enough precision to emulate "perfect" decimals)
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By DaneBlood 2018-10-18 02:03:33
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Asura.Chiaia said: »
There are a ton of things in game that go by decimal this is completely wrong.

If you had to be anal there is not.
All the math is binary it just a matter of precision enough to emulate decimals close enough.

You might ask in code to do X * 1.1 in decimals.
But the instruction will still end up in binary for the CPU to work it with its imprecision

Different brand of CPU's will even do the rounding differently
(or used to they might all be following the IEEE standard now)


my points is that all the x/256 amd x/1024 could be all the same on eveb bigger divisor (e.g. everything that goes x/256 could be x/1024 we just didn't evidence of precission before)
it could alle x/65535 (16 bits) division) we just haven't seen small enough steps to verify it
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By geigei 2018-10-18 03:59:29
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Been using Claid for offhand savage.
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By Boshi 2018-10-18 08:16:58
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don't.
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2018-10-18 13:07:58
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DaneBlood said: »
Ramuh.Austar said: »
that eliminates 21 / 1024 and 22 / 1024 as well, so the only answer would be decimal.


but not
85899346/4294967296
32bit interger division

32bit interger divison with bit move should still be faster than a float division (to have enough precision to emulate "perfect" decimals)
i really doubt someone went in and made such a long fraction when they could just do .02. just because a computer reads it that way doesn’t mean it’s coded that way
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By DaneBlood 2018-10-18 13:22:49
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Ramuh.Austar said: »
i really doubt someone went in and made such a long fraction when they could just do .02.

It very common pratice to use bitshit instead of division.
its such acommon practive to avoid divison that compiler will try to avoid it when converitng you source code to machine code
The hardware in your cpu tries to avoid it even when its raw assmebly codes tries to do division.
Hence the old well known fdiv bug in the first generation Pentum becuase the lookup table in the CPU had some faulty entries in it

its not more difficult coding wise to do 32 bit shift vs 8 bits shifts from a human skill level

So I would have to disagree on all levels on this statements

The entire reason we do /256 or /1024 or /~4bll
is because these a hole numbers in binare and therefor can easily be replaced with bit shifts which is MUCH less stressfull in cpu ressource



To clarify its not coded as x/256 or x/1024 as in multiply with X and then divide with 256 or 1024
Is coded as multiple with X and move these bits 8bits over or 10bits over or in my case 32bits over ( when A bit get move outside the range of the the storage units it is "Deleted" hence why as default any divison is truncated / floored.

The code different is minimal
and its a very common practice among coders. compilers and hardware to do so


Besides the 32bit bit shift was just an example not necessarily a proof that we needed 32bits to achiever the precision to get the results from testing.
We might need way less. i just started in the extreme spectrum to show that its possible in binary math and the negate that the test was any kind of proof of decimal math

Ramuh.Austar said: »
just because a computer reads it that way doesn’t mean it’s coded that way
The computer does EVERY calculations and the rounding in binary no matter how you type in code as a human.

P.S.
If im not mistaken ( and please correct me if you know)
but working with 32bit register in moderne cpu are faster than its 8 and 16bit counterparts. because of how the fetch and prediction units works in morderns cpu.

This was VERY apperanty in the Pentium PRO cpu as thier 16bits performance was horrible compared to its 32bit performance. but later on on the pentium2 som more shift on cpu isntruction to MicroOPS convertiob was improved ( E.G the cpu internally converted some 16bits math to 32bit math)

I would not be suprised if S.E. over the time changed the base divison going fomr 8bits hsift to 10bit shift to maybe 16 bit or 32bit shift.
all earlier data would still fit as before as you simply add more 0 to the X values. but never gear could archieved higher precision.

not saying there is any proof of it but its a possibility from both an accucacy and performance perspective
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By DaneBlood 2018-10-18 13:49:56
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Lets just try for the fun of it

1317/65536 (16bits shift) would also make give the +128 test results
163/8192 (13 bit shift) would also make give the +128 test results
82/4096 (12 bit shifts) would also make give the +128 test results
41/2048 (11bit shifts) would also make give the +128 test results
21/1024 (10bit shifts) is to high
20/1024 (10bit shifts) is to low

So anything above 11bit shift gives the needed precision for binary math to come up with the 0.02 as show in testing.


In coding "You" always want to vaoid
- divison
- multiplication
- Working with fractions (Cause that implies a division and also intergersmath is way faster then fixed or float point math)

So even thoug it appears on the human side we do something with 0.02 very rarely do we actually do that when the math is actually done by the computer.
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By Sidiov 2018-10-18 14:29:40
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I 100% support your post, but I just want to say this was my favorite part:
DaneBlood said: »
is because these a hole numbers
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2018-10-18 18:53:49
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I assume you understand that when you start adding in additional sources of WSD, that those shifts won't add up and the most logical way to calculate WSD is as a base 10, unlike haste and fTP anchor values which all hold up /1024.
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