[Dev] Dragoon Adjustments

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[Dev] Dragoon Adjustments
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By Ophannus 2012-01-26 15:47:00
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Yeah but I think this formula for HBIII:

Quote:
FLOOR(0.1757*(Drachen Brais Bonus + Wyvern XP Bonus + 1)*(Helm Bonus + Wyvern TP Bonus + Deep Breathing Bonus + 1)*(Wyv. HP + Wyv +HP gear)+42)

isn't the same for HBIV. 0.176 makes a nice clean 45/256 fraction. 0.239 is somewhere between 61/256 and 62/256 so I bet the modifier and constant are different for HBIV
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By Siren.Ihm 2012-01-26 15:49:45
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Ophannus said: »
Yeah but I think this formula for HBIII:

Quote:
FLOOR(0.1757*(Drachen Brais Bonus + Wyvern XP Bonus + 1)*(Helm Bonus + Wyvern TP Bonus + Deep Breathing Bonus + 1)*(Wyv. HP + Wyv +HP gear)+42)

isn't the same for HBIV. 0.176 makes a nice clean 45/256 fraction. 0.239 is somewhere between 61/256 and 62/256 so I bet the modifier and constant are different for HBIV

Ahh right, try doing a few different HBs then using only fixed HP+ gear (Body, Earring, Mantle), % gear and wyrm armet-esk gear confuse ***.

I really should activate me on the test server...
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By Ophannus 2012-01-26 16:10:16
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Too lazy to care. Takes 5min to activate yourself on test server and about 30min to download.
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By Siren.Ihm 2012-01-26 16:12:13
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But I'm like in the middle of voidwatch and stuff... I'll do it tomorrow maybe. I don't know if I care enough to be honest lol.
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By Foldypaws 2012-01-26 20:56:53
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That old formula is wrong anyway. Helm bonus is additive with the base value, not multiplicative.

Old formula was

FLOOR((Drachen Brais Bonus + Wyvern XP Bonus + 1)*(45/256(HB III) + 43/256(Helm Bonus) + 5/256(Belt Bonus) +5/256(Neck Bonus) + ??(Wyvern TP Bonus) + 75/256(Deep Breathing Bonus with 5/5 and +2 hat) )*(Wyv. HP + Wyv +HP gear)+42)

The formula for HB IV is

FLOOR((Drachen Brais Bonus + Wyvern XP Bonus + 1)*(53/256(HB IV) + 43/256(Helm Bonus) + 5/256(Belt Bonus) +5/256(Neck Bonus) + ??(Wyvern TP Bonus) + 75/256(Deep Breathing Bonus with 5/5 and +2 hat) )*(Wyv. HP + Wyv +HP gear)+60)

(Deep Breathing starts @ 50/256 and goes up by 5/merit with the hat.)

To pull out the changed parts, the constant changed from 42 to 60, and the base on the breath changed from a 45/256 multiplier on HP to a 53/256 multiplier.


Also, wyverns now have ~1475 HP@99. I'm pretty sure their job is DRG and so they gained more HP when DRG HP was increased.
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By Caitsith.Eriina 2012-01-26 22:04:44
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Quetzalcoatl.Brayenn said: »
echo drops?

Antidotes? Holy waters? Remedies? Paralna from sub?

The point is not that there are other methods for removing the ailments that cure breath removes. The point is it makes sense for us to get remove silence. They aren't giving it to us. Their excuse for not giving it is BS. I'd like them to either add it or at least give us a reason that is consistent with the way cure breath currently works.
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By Lakshmi.Aanalaty 2012-01-26 23:58:49
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Caitsith.Eriina said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Brayenn said: »
echo drops?

Antidotes? Holy waters? Remedies? Paralna from sub?

The point is not that there are other methods for removing the ailments that cure breath removes. The point is it makes sense for us to get remove silence. They aren't giving it to us. Their excuse for not giving it is BS. I'd like them to either add it or at least give us a reason that is consistent with the way cure breath currently works.
Echos are also the cheapest of all of these, readily available from NPCs everywhere, and most people with any mage experience probably already cary them anyway.

Would it be handy to have it breath cure silence? Sure. Is it really worth splitting hairs over? Not in the slightest. It fixes the dangerous stuff.

Para: Hardest to get rid of and most annoying, but we get it 100% because you cant para a WS.
Cursna: Death waiting to happen. Rather obviously important.
Everythign else: Meds are expensive/rare or not worth carrying around. Free removal, nifty.

Silence is so low on the priority list of crap im worried about that i really just cant give a crap. Echos are cheap and everywhere. Is everyone really feeling so wronged that this even matters?

_____________________
PS: Cursna spell cast time reduced from 3sec to 1. There were not the threatening whm anymore /facepalm
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By Caitsith.Eriina 2012-01-27 15:58:52
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On ragnarok echoes cost 11k, holy waters cost 12k, antidotes cost 6k. Echoes are not noticeably cheaper nor are they more readily available. If you wanna know 1k off the price of echoes you can head to WG. Still fails to explain the "logic" as to why it wouldnt be included as compared to those things that are.

If drg's didn't care about this they wouldn't have specifically reported an excuse. It's a common point of discontent for people who care about drg and often play /Mage from both a gameplay and a lore stand point. Any drg/mage cares s lot about being silenced no matter how it's removed. If the best contribution you can make is "you don't care" maybe you should reconsider why you are posting. If you have insight to the logic behind remove silence (either for or against) that is consistent with the other remove anilities from either gameplay or lore stand point I'd be happy to hear them.

Seek not to explain why we "wouldn't" get remove silence. Seek to explain why we "shouldn't" get remove silence. Because they are in there toying with remove breaths right now.
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By Lakshmi.Aanalaty 2012-01-27 18:01:19
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Caitsith.Eriina said: »
On ragnarok echoes cost 11k, holy waters cost 12k, antidotes cost 6k. Echoes are not noticeably cheaper nor are they more readily available. If you wanna know 1k off the price of echoes you can head to WG. Still fails to explain the "logic" as to why it wouldnt be included as compared to those things that are.

Or you could head to port jeuno next to the friggin auction house shop. The thought that they are not widle available is simply inccorect.

Stack costs 9,600 from NPCs in:
Port Jeuno
Upper Jueno
Whitegate
Kazham
Mhuara
All 3 starter cities (in 1st/2nd place)

I have never bought echos off the AH in my life because the ONLY place where there is an AH but no NPC to buy them cheaper is Rabao and Norg, and those arent exactly frequented madly. If you buy them for 10k+ a stack, thats your own dumb fault. Lack of availability is (in this case) the players ignorance.

I say i dont 'care' because using a cheap, super available item from an NPC is simply more effective than requiring a WS to cure silence. If i get silenced as drg, you can etiher: hope you have TP before you need a cure, or just use an echo drop that is even faster. Echo>Spell>Heal is far more efficient than WS>Giant animation delay>spell>Heal. And that is assuming you are sitting on 100TP the moment you are silenced. Heaven forbid you are silenced after finishing off a mob at low HP and have to wait it out. But in that case you would probably just use the item ANYWAY.

My point is that relying on the WS is actually significantly less efficient way to deal with silence in the 1st place as compared to paralyze which it is often a boon. I honestly feel the same way about curse. If its not a significantly higher chance to remove doom than holy water, then there is no point because you could use 2-3 waters in the time it takes to do 1 WS, let alone gain TP for it with your deathclock ticking.

Fine ill play:
Reason not to have breath remove doom/Silence- It is slower/less effective than meds and will simply encourage drgs to not carry them making them ultimately less able to deal with these scenarios than currently.

However i do still support the cursna breath because it IS more convenient to use on the actual curse effect. If it was only doom id say let it go the way of silence too.

I dont think a developer needs to add additional (less effective) crutches to do something that is as easy as using echo drops that are littered all over vanadiel and quite affordable. Especially coming from a job whos only required consumable costs are food and the occasional angon.

TLDR: Its a waste of time for developers and a waste of energy of players to demand something less effective than what already exists.
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By Caitsith.Eriina 2012-01-27 20:24:53
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EDIT: while there are a few minor minor points where I differ in opinion, I'm just gonna sum up by saying by and large I agree with what you're saying. Everything you're saying about echo availability and developer resources is sound. Talking about those points any further will just degenerate in to hypothetical forum argument.

However, neither of those reasons are the ones the developers give for excluding remove silence. They say it's a front line back line thing. I'd be more satisfied if they gave a reason like affecting the market for echo drops (even though we buy them from vendors anyway, heh).

To my mind some front line jobs, including the drg with access to cure breath himself, are dependent on magic to be effective in the role for which they joined any given PT.
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By Lakshmi.Aanalaty 2012-01-27 21:26:25
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Fair enough.

Ive given up on developer logic as valid reasoning because its all hypocritical/inconsistent/ridiculous reasoning generally. PS2 limitations, BARANCE, "we cant add new zones because of PS2".....years later "PS2 is not limiting us from making more zones!" etc etc. Or my personal favorite:

Q: Could you split aura steal and steal timers.
A: (paraphrased) Yes, but we would have to reduce the effectiveness of aura steal to balance it because it would be OVERPOWERED (they actually used the word overpowered in the same sentence as aura steal) and probably have to make it inneffective on HNMs and we dont think youd like that"

Note: This was the same update that they added a drk spell that absorbs TWO buffs at once, not tied to a 5min timer, nor needing merits to unlock the dispel, and more to get the absorb to actually work.

So instead of raising hell about a tiny thing, id rather just let this one go and focus calling attention to something else.

Would i take a free silena? of course. Am i gonna fight SE to get it? Nope. Are developers reasons worth the paper i wipe my *** on? nope.
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By Ophannus 2012-01-28 13:35:53
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Difference between aura steal and absorb attribute is one bypasses all evasion/accuracy checks and is a straight% based on merits. The other relies on dark magic skill/immunities/resistences and magic accuracy/INT
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By Lakshmi.Aanalaty 2012-01-28 20:22:16
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Oh i get that their are limitations. It was just ironic that stealing ONE buff was overpowered but stealing 2 on a MUCH MUCH shorter timer is ok. Acutally, we can already steal a buff anyway, its not a new ability. The overpowered part was asking so SPLIT aura steal and steal.

Apparently aura steal is just peachy. Steal is just peachy. The ability to both steal and aura steal in the same 5 minutes is (i quote) Overpowered.

That is the ridiculous reasoning of SE. The root cause was people tired of using steal on a mage skelly and getting a bone chip when they wanted to dispel ice spikes and a tiny handful of mobs like that. But that would be overpowered and thf would shake the foundations of the game.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-02-03 07:09:26
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Update on topic today, though very little has changed. A few things removed from the original post though:

02-03-2012 05:04 AM
[source]
Gildrein
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[dev1070] Job Adjustments: Dragoon

  • New Wyvern Breath Abilities

    • Healing Breath IV (Lv. 80)

    • Remove Breath will now cure additional status ailments at the following levels:
      • Curse and doom (Lv. 60)
      • Disease and plague (Lv. 80)
        *In the event that a character is afflicted with multiple status ailments, Remove Breath will cure only one.
        The effect cured will be determined by learnable level, with higher-level cure effects being prioritized over lower-level ones.
        This ability is still under development, and adjustments to priority may be implemented in a future update.

  • Ability adjustments

    • Spirit Surge
      • The "Haste" effect granted by Spirit Surge will be stackable with similar effects granted by spells and equipment.

    • Jump
      • Recast time shortened from 90 to 60 seconds.

    • High Jump
      • Recast time shortened from 180 to 120 seconds.
      • Expanded range.
      • Will also remove enmity from the nearest party member behind the dragoon.

    • Super Jump
      • Expanded range.
      • Will also remove enmity from the nearest party member behind the dragoon.

    • Spirit Jump
      • Recast time shortened from 90 to 60 seconds.

    • Soul Jump
      • Recast time shortened from 180 to 120 seconds.

    • Spirit Link
      • Recast time shortened from 180 to 90 seconds.

    • Ancient Circle
      • Recast time reduced from ten minutes to five.
      • Duration increased from one minute to three.

    • Dragon Breaker
      • Recast time reduced from ten minutes to five.
     
    To maintain balance in light of the above recast time reductions, dragoon group one merit point enhancements will be adjusted as follows:


    • Jump Recast: Shortens recast time by 2 seconds (previously 3 seconds).
    • High Jump Recast: Shortens recast time by 4 seconds (previously 6 seconds).
    • Spirit Link Recast : Shortens recast time by 3 seconds (previously 6 seconds).
    • Ancient Circle Recast : Shortens recast time by 10 seconds (previously 20 seconds).

  • Attribute Ranking Adjustments :

    • HP will be raised from C to B.
    • Evasion skill will be raised from C- to B.
    • Parrying skill will be raised from C to B-.

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Other Job Adjustments:
[dev1079] Job Adjustments: Samurai
[dev1080] Job Adjustments: Thief
[dev1081] Job Adjustments: Bard
[dev1082] Job Adjustments: Ranger
[dev1083] Job Adjustments: Puppetmaster
[dev1084] Job Adjustments: Warrior Part II
[dev1085] Job Adjustments: Paladin Part II
[dev1086] Job Adjustments: Dark Knight Part II
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-02-13 20:07:23
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Update on topic:

02-13-2012 07:12 PM
[source]
Camate
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Greetings!

Apologies that this announcement is being made post-version update.

In regards to the effect that will reduce the enmity of the closest party member behind you, which was planned for this version update, we have received a lot of comments stating that it is not very convenient and we have decided to push this back. We would like to receive a bit more feedback from both dragoons as well as players who use other jobs.

Similar to the above, we would also like to hear the opinions of more players on the topic of priority for Cure Breath.

Originally, the status ailment that would be healed was selected based on the order of the level it was learned. As we are thinking of adjusting the priority of this, if there are any particular status effects which you would like to be prioritized for healing, please share your thoughts.

  • Paralyzed

  • Curse & Doom

  • Disease & Plague

  • Blind

  • Poison


Example of a post
----------------------------
1. Paralyzed
2. Disease & Plague
3. Curse & Doom
4. Blind
5. Poison
----------------------------
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Discuss what you think here but make sure you post in the official topic if you want to have a vote.
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