Shinryu And Brew.

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Shinryu and brew.
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 Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-01-05 13:11:37
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So I've been brewing shinryu on rng and doing the math on it. And I've been doing about 3.5X more dmg than I should be each time.

Now you might say maybe it gives killer MAB... except I've done it with a good 80 MAB and with 0 and the dmg difference between the 2 was exactly what it should be.

Which leaves only a few options that I can think of:

1. Gives Matt
2. Shinryu takes ALOT extra magic dmg (ls suggested but idk seems unlikely not that much anyways)
3. Brew does weird things to other multlipliers like ftp or something


Any thoughts?
 
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By 2011-01-05 13:16:25
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 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2011-01-05 13:18:30
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What Atmas are you using, what damage are you doing?
 Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-01-05 13:18:31
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Caitsith.Shiroi said:
Did you consider the elemental + attack atmas aren't +30 MAB but +30% damage?
Yep. Though I only used one the last time.
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By Lakshmi.Razius 2011-01-05 13:22:04
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Lakshmi.Byrth said:
What Atmas are you using, what damage are you doing?

Random question: I wouldnt have thought you would need Atmas with the Brew. Is this so or do certain ones help the Brew Pew =o?
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-01-05 13:24:12
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Lakshmi.Byrth said:
What Atmas are you using, what damage are you doing?
First 2 times I was using griffon claw and 2 MAB atmas to bring me up to a total of 67 MAB. Staff bonus of course no day/weather drinks. Also 2% ws hat. Was doing 40k

Last time griffon claw, drifter (was trying to blue before brew) and lone wolf. Had like 12 MAB this time I think but +30% fire dmg from atma. Did 34k. Which if you do the math comes out right for a comparison
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2011-01-05 13:26:14
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Wildfire, I assume? Does anyone know the enhancement on Griffon's Claw?
 Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-01-05 13:28:28
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Lakshmi.Razius said:
Lakshmi.Byrth said:
What Atmas are you using, what damage are you doing?
Random question: I wouldnt have thought you would need Atmas with the Brew. Is this so or do certain ones help the Brew Pew =o?
Need? No at least not with wildfire lol. However there are some that help... like I'd probably only do 20-25k without any atmas depending on gear.

And while that does sound like still alot of dmg it could make a difference. Especially if you are using brew to tank/get tp for 2.5ish min to try and proc !! and then kill quick. Killing in 3 vs 1-2 shots can give you that extra time or help you win if you took that time anyways. Especially if you accidentally heal it on one or 2 or have to wait so you don't.

I'm trying to break 65k
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-01-05 13:29:19
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Lakshmi.Byrth said:
Wildfire, I assume? Does anyone know the enhancement on Griffon's Claw?
Yes. And exactly 20% ws dmg when 2hand weapon equipped. Personally tested alot. Also tested the the +fire dmg one to make sure it was 30%
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By Lakshmi.Razius 2011-01-05 13:29:32
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Coolio thanks for clearing that up :)
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2011-01-05 13:34:11
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Are we sure of the 60% AGI mod on Wildfire? Also, are you using an appropriate belt/gorget?

What was the exact damage value you shot for, and were you using the Atma of the Smoldering Sky when you did it?
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By Siren.Eremes 2011-01-05 13:48:23
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I heard that elemental weaponskills under the effects of brew totally destroy physical weaponskills, which is why you see people spamming Red Lotus Blade and Aeolian Edge to kill him. But I don't know.
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-01-05 13:56:39
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Lakshmi.Byrth said:
Are we sure of the 60% AGI mod on Wildfire? Also, are you using an appropriate belt/gorget?

What was the exact damage value you shot for, and were you using the Atma of the Smoldering Sky when you did it?
I've actually tested the dmg formula it works out exactly right. Neither either time. Though appropriate belt/gorget is a matter of opinion since some of the dmg is outside of ftp and well ftp is 5.5 anyways... MAB might be better. ANd obi on day :)

I don't have exact values... but being within 1k should be mroe than enough to figure out things are out of whack when you are dealing with 34 and 40k and it doing a good 3.5X more than it should.

And no I said the atmas I used

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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2011-01-05 14:45:15
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Case 1: +30% damage, 12 MAB
34k / (1.3*1.15*1.12*1.22) = 16.7k damage
(90+2+599)*5.5 + 24 = 3824.5 damage

Case 2: +69 MAB
40k / (1.69*1.15*1.22) = 16.8k damage
(90+2+599)*5.5 + 24 = 3824.5 damage

It looks like the disconnect is a factor we aren't considering. If you gave the actual numbers and named the MAB Atmas you used, we could know for sure.

It may not be possible for you to get 65k on RNG. The best combination I can think of is Smoldering Sky, Lone Wolf, and Ultimate on Firesday with an Obi and a scholar giving you Fire weather (and Zodiac ring).
16.7k * 1.6*1.15*1.62*1.23 = 61.2k damage

Corsairs have a few more tools available to them (Shot + AF3 feet+2 to decrease defense to that element 20%, Wizard's Roll, subbing RDM)
16.7 * 1.6*1.15*2.12*1.23*1.2 = 96.2k damage

If they improved their gear a bit, I'd bet a Corsair could break 100k damage with Wildfire.
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-01-05 14:59:40
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Well you are using aren't using the right formula... think that 24 is fint... but it uses 2(agi-mobint). Anywyas thats why I was saying probably something like matt on brew

And I was saying 65k based on other dmg... mind you I will be using ascetic gambir and better gear and I will be subbing rdm as well. Also don't have ultimate and besides brulos will be better anyways

So in the end all cor is going to have on me is af3+2 feet and wizards roll so dmg wont be as different as you imagine.

Still trying to get brulo's... mob is a *** though
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2011-01-05 15:25:04
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I don't know that the brew really gives any MAB. My two calculations taking into account WS damage, affinity bonus, staff bonus, and magic attack bonus arrived at approximately the same base value. Because MAB varied dramatically between the two cases (and was higher in the higher-damage case), one would expect that there's no MAB from the brew. Any absurd MAB from the brew would decrease the effectiveness of further MAB. Instead, you hit about 40k with +69 MAB and about 34k with +12 MAB/+30% damage.

Therefore, Brulo's Atma (20% WS damage assumed) will likely not be better than Ultimate, unless you don't have the Fire Obi and need it for that reason.
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-01-05 15:50:44
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That's why I said Matt not MAB. I already know it's not MAB from that

Also I have fire obi but it should stack kinda like the way the equipment does. But yes if not on fire day/weather and assuming it's only 20% then yes ultimate would be better as long as you have less than 150 mab before it
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2011-01-05 15:58:00
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I haven't personally tested the "Gives lightningsday/weather effects" Atmas, but I was assuming they just acted as an Obi. All an Obi does is force the already-possible Elemental damage boost (does not add any damage of its own). It actually lowers your max potential damage, because you're no longer wearing a damage piece there (or Aqualine belt in your case). Still, it's obviously worth using when it applies.

One would assume that two obis would give the same damage boost as one obi, because neither are actually adding damage.
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-01-05 16:08:52
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Only one way to find out
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2011-01-05 17:35:22
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Hmm, reading some stuff on gobli, shinryu apparently has a 30% dmg cut when wings are closed, maybe that's why it was lower with the +fire dmg atma?

I saw a video of a guy one shotting shinryu with wildfire doing about 67k dmg and the theoretical calculations seemed pretty close to what he actually got. This was with the assumption that brew gives you +900 MAB (Total 1000) and shinryu having a base 170 magic def

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By Cerberus.Altimaomega 2011-01-05 22:26:03
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anyone try it with leaden salute?
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-01-05 22:29:39
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Unicorn.Tarowyn said:
Hmm, reading some stuff on gobli, shinryu apparently has a 30% dmg cut when wings are closed, maybe that's why it was lower with the +fire dmg atma?

I saw a video of a guy one shotting shinryu with wildfire doing about 67k dmg and the theoretical calculations seemed pretty close to what he actually got. This was with the assumption that brew gives you +900 MAB (Total 1000) and shinryu having a base 170 magic def
Naw I did less with +fire dmg atma cause I took off like 60 MAB in gear and atmas.

Also the numbers pretty much prove it doesn't give MAB. Though maybe something like matt
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2011-01-05 22:42:29
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How do the numbers prove it if shinryu could just be straight dmg cutting your fire atma'ed wildfire? Someone did do a test with wildfire where the numbers came out relatively close (1k on a 67kish WS) so for the moment I'm tempted to trust that more.
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-01-05 22:57:21
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Unicorn.Tarowyn said:
How do the numbers prove it if shinryu could just be straight dmg cutting your fire atma'ed wildfire? Someone did do a test with wildfire where the numbers came out relatively close (1k on a 67kish WS) so for the moment I'm tempted to trust that more.
Ok the only difference between the 2 was MAB and fire dmg atma. Had only around 12 MAB on the fire atma'd one and about 69 when I didn't

34k/1.3/1.12=23.35k

40k/1.69 = 23.66k

About the same base dmg before that mab and +fire dmg. In fact the small differences in actual amounts of dmg which I don't have here it probably is the same.

So unless shinryu cut my dmg the 3rd run by exactly enough to make it appear as if brew gave no MAB but in fact gave tons compared to both my first and 2nd run... I don't believe in those kind of exact coincidences.
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2011-01-05 23:04:22
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40000 / 1067 * 1012 * 1.3 * .7 = 34523

Looks almost perfect to me.
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 Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-01-05 23:21:40
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Like I said I don't like coincidences. Especially when if you do the full dmg formula I should be doing 55% more dmg on both of those ws assuming that base MAB and the wings closed thing.
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2011-01-05 23:46:33
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Can I see your numbers out of curiosity then? Coincidences work both ways, could just be your MAB just happens to match up with is going on too so dunno, lol.
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-01-05 23:52:06
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Unicorn.Tarowyn said:
Can I see your numbers out of curiosity then? Coincidences work both ways, could just be your MAB just happens to match up with is going on too so dunno, lol.
That's why I'm saying I don't like coincidences. That this unproven amount of MAB from brew gives exactly enough to exactly counteract a possible -dmg from a possible event that may or may not have been happening.

Not to mention this would require shinryu to have a -35%ish dmg trait always that is multiplicative not additive with the wings one. Which usually -dmgs are additive.

I didn't screenshot exact amounts. I can next time I go. It was more something I looked at after the fact
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2011-01-05 23:55:11
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Not seeing where this 2nd -dmg trait is coming from. Also again, can I see the math that you're saying is giving you 55% dmg more than what you saw?
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-01-06 00:12:01
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Unicorn.Tarowyn said:
Not seeing where this 2nd -dmg trait is coming from. Also again, can I see the math that you're saying is giving you 55% dmg more than what you saw?
Edit: I just realized 55% is low since I completely forgot I used griffon claw in both lol

Ok I'm assuming shinryu has about 149int. Seems somewhat reasonable... though if I had the amount from my 1 unbrewed wildfire exactly and the gear I had on could get closer lol.

So base dmg before all the factors like MAB and staff and such is:
60% agi modded
ftp=5.5

2(agi-mobint)+ ftp(lvl+2+wsc)
2(999-149) +5.5( lvl +2 + .6*.85*999)
2(850) + 5.5(92+ 509)
1700 + 5.5(611)= 5060.

Now I used HQ staff and on both so 1.15 and griffon claw for another 1.2 to that for 6982.

Now using the first one with supposed 967 MAB and nothing else: 6982*10.67*1.2=74512instead of the 40k I got

Using the 2nd values of 912 MAB and +30% fire dmg but -30% dmg:
6982*10.12*1.3/.7*1.2= 64305 instead of the 34k I got.

Now you could get into the fact that he could have higher int... but go ahead back calculate how much int he would have to have to get those numbers with that supposed MAB and dmg trait on the 2nd one. It would be over 1k one the first and the diffeence between the 2 ints on each fight would be like over 200 I think lol
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