How Long Does A Soboro Last?

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How Long Does a Soboro Last?
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 Asura.Volition
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By Asura.Volition 2009-02-21 21:42:24
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I was wondering, starting at 50, how long will a Soboro Sukehiro last a Sam? And what replaces it?
 Cerberus.Jiko
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By Cerberus.Jiko 2009-02-21 21:45:17
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Mid60's unless /rng or /dnc for soro.

I personally used it to 72 though til hagun, cause them damn imps kept pissing me off and figured i might as well get the extra attacks in.
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By Shiva.Artemicion 2009-02-21 21:45:32
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Well, once you're able to equip it the soboro will be amazing. You will literally spam enpi/jinpu like there's no tomorrow making your DPS shine above everyone else. However in later levels, (i'd say post 60) the 40 dmg starts to lose it's luster and really only performs for /RNG sidewinder spam or for /DNC.

However, keep in mind that due to it's nature you'll be feeding mobs TP with a snow plow so use it conditionally on certain mobs. Last thing you want is to multi-hit with a gtk on Skoffins lol.
 Bahamut.Avenged
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By Bahamut.Avenged 2009-02-21 21:55:44
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i use soboro at 64 SAM and my yukikaze's hit for a constant 400+ dmg, which is around all my other party members. And i get to spam it more so i do more DoT. I plan on using it until 72 for Hagun, as mentioned above.
 Garuda.Wooooodum
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By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-02-21 22:02:12
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Just never use it in merit parties unless you have Yoichinoyumi or enough Ranged Accuracy / Archery gear to make up for the lack of Great Katana damage. People will hate you for using Soboro and weapon skilling on Great Katana and almost certainly kick you from a semi-serious meripo.

I had a Samurai in one of my meripos once. He refused to use his Hagun, he claimed his Soboro made him do more damage over time than Hagun on Great Colibri. So my friend parsed him and told him to use his Hagun for half hour and his Soboro the next half hour. Same amount of monsters killed and using Hagun did over 30% more damage.

Could do lots of testing but it's already been done. Check out the Samurai forums on Alla for quite a detailed comparison of the two GKTs. In meripo and high level monsters, Hagun wins hands down with considerable daylight between the two.

(If anyone's interested, he carried on using Soboro, saying my friend was lying... So yes, we kicked him.)
 Ramuh.Shadowarrior
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By Ramuh.Shadowarrior 2009-02-21 22:06:36
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thats not true. sam/dnc pretty much only uses soboro. GET THAT GKT its so fun to use, when ur bored or soloing in besiedged or campaign. an eva build sam/dnc with soboro can pretty much solo any regular mob in campaign, just remember to keep it blinded parad and sometimes even silenced. not to mention sam/dnc with soboro can pretty much pwn most dds in ballista... with the exception of maybe blu or pld with enfeebles >.< i still carry it around jic im bored. but merits most time will be hagun. id say if u dont have a hagun id consider using soboro... its fun plus when triple attacks... i can get up to a 1k WS, which is not bad for a lvl 50 gkt at 75. its well worth the investment.
 Garuda.Wooooodum
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By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-02-21 22:11:34
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Shadowarrior said:
eva build sam/dnc with soboro can pretty much solo any regular mob in campaign, just remember to keep it blinded parad and sometimes even silenced


How would a SAM do this reliably? Weapon skill effects are not 100%, least of all on campaign mobs.

Shadowarrior said:
id say if u dont have a hagun id consider using soboro... its fun plus when triple attacks... i can get up to a 1k WS, which is not bad for a lvl 50 gkt at 75. its well worth the investment.


Yet any great katana that a 75 SAM can use will out parse Soboro. Doesn't matter how many times it hits, it's damage rating seriously gimps it because of the high defense compared to the low attack of the enemies. It's not all about weapon skills. Individual hits count too.
 Ramuh.Shadowarrior
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By Ramuh.Shadowarrior 2009-02-21 22:32:38
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ummm when your spamming YGK the effects arent <50%... the effect accuracy isnt anywhere based on your dmg, so in fact you should be getting blind, para, silence to proc more often than if you were using any regular 450 delay gkt. [though the effects procs most of the time for me anyways on hagun]

and as for triple attacks thats just an added bonus on top of soloing. its not all about the dmg when u solo, id rather be an alive self-sustainable-healing sam/dnc with a soboro than a dead sam/war using hagun dishing out 1k+ WSs each time.

i suppose it can depend on how often you plan on using sam and how u plan to use it. when you go for dmg ofcourse use hagun when you are trying to stay alive... use soboro, bottom line its a situational piece worth getting if not just because its fun to use.
 Garuda.Wooooodum
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By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-02-21 22:33:45
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Shadowarrior said:
its not all about the dmg when u solo


Shadowarrior said:
but merits most time will be hagun. id say if u dont have a hagun id consider using soboro... its fun plus when triple attacks... i can get up to a 1k WS, which is not bad for a lvl 50 gkt at 75. its well worth the investment.


:3

I'm not trolling, but it's pretty bad advice telling a SAM75 to use Soboro in meripo, full stop. I don't care about campaign solo, that is not bad advice. Telling any SAM75 to Soboro in meripo is like telling any BLM75 to nuke in AF Body.
 Ramuh.Shadowarrior
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By Ramuh.Shadowarrior 2009-02-21 22:48:27
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lol but if you have a genie weskit why wouldnt u use it? i agree id use a hagun in a meripo. but what if all of a sudden ur party wipes! and ur the last sam standing... haha im just saying if i had to pic between soboro and god forbid shinsoku... or maybe even onimaru, its not such a bad alternative.

its also possible that the sams i see with shinsoku or onimaru are pretty lol as it is... it seems as though i pretty much WS the same if not harder on my soboro than they do.. given my WS spam is like twice as fast. i suppose id have to personally play and parse with both lolgkts.. so no comment on them!

besides the point hagun for dmg. soboro when u need it [blind,silence,para,STUNS] haha SITUATIONAL not a necessity but very nice to have. [obviously.. i play sam most of the time.. i dont have any other dds. i have to figure out how to do with what i have, im sure if you have your own arsenal of jobs u can do without soboro]
 Odin.Arnor
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By Odin.Arnor 2009-02-21 22:48:59
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me personally i used boro till onimaru at 73.. though now i got hagun it beats all hands down :O though i have heard rumors that the GKT dropped off zip in sky is compareable to hagun
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By Remora.Mitsurughy 2009-02-21 23:42:17
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Wooooodum said:
So my friend parsed him


For as far as i know, most if not all parser take data from log. og that is true youd never be able to parse a sam correctly to to the bug: " you change equip, SC dmg doesnt appear in log". As for that also knowing the soboro is also able to solo light specially in meripo where you got haste flowing over your ears making a great % of sam's dmg weaponskill and SC.
what i am saying is not that soboro is better but im pretty sure that the gap is certainly not 30%.
just do the math somehow:

Soboro DMG40 Hagun DMG75
so for normal attacks as soon a a double attack occures your almost there.
when you get tripple attack your over it.
Presume you use YGK at 100TP:
TPBOnus giving 1.875 for hagun and getting 1.5625 on soboro
so youw WS are more powerful on hagun ok.

So the difference between the 2 actually needing to compare the dmg% differecen on normal hits and that 1.875-1.5625 added to dmg difference which let say for easier viewing
1 soboro ws 40*1.5625= 62,5 and 1 hagun ws 75*1.875=140.625.
these number are purely representative since youd need a lot more in it, but since wpn DMG is the only factort i think this is ok.the difference beeing 225%

now the party i dont take sides: figure out soboro activation rate exactly both on double and triple AND add SC-s resisted or not.
seeing this i think numbers should be very close and im trully interestid if anyone got the true answer.
BUT its is certainley NOT 30%.
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By Siren.Enternius 2009-02-22 00:15:32
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Wooooodum said:
How would a SAM do this reliably? Weapon skill effects are not 100%, least of all on campaign mobs.


In my experience, Yukikaze and Kasha have about a 90% chance of sticking on Campaign mobs and damn near 100% on anything else. It's not rare at all.

Arnor said:
though i have heard rumors that the GKT dropped off zip in sky is compareable to hagun


I've had Ushikirimaru for a few months now, and I'm seriously considering getting rid of my Hagun altogether. It hasn't seen the light of day in, well, a few months, and the only reason I held on to it was because I was hoping SE might un-nerf it. Yes, Ushikirimaru is better, but Soboro still gives a bit higher total damage.

And to answer your question, Vol, Soboro does start getting better than Hagun if you have a ton of STR (+80 or so) on WS. It does give the mob a ton of TP, though. Not that it affects you. The tank is the one that has to deal with that, ehehehe...

SAM/DNC, Soboro gives more TP than you can burn from spamming Curing Waltz II every 7 seconds.

SAM/RNG, obviously, you'll be getting like 6 Sidewinders in a row.

Overall, Soboro is one of the most, if not THE most reasonable investment for SAM. Took me 3 months and over 30 cluster cores to get mine and I'd do it again if I had to.
 Fenrir.Shindo
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By Fenrir.Shindo 2009-02-22 01:53:18
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Yukikaze, Gekko and Kasha effects stick a lot of the time. Especially with a Hagun. It actually is rather reliable. A good SAM won't overlook the enfeeb potential. There've been a few times when I only survived because I para'd or blinded the mob.
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By Shiva.Artemicion 2009-02-22 01:55:12
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Shindo said:
Yukikaze, Gekko and Kasha effects stick a lot of the time. Especially with a Hagun. It actually is rather reliable. A good SAM won't overlook the enfeeb potential. There've been a few times when I only survived because I para'd or blinded the mob.


Unless the mob is completely immune to it, weapon skill effects have little to no resistance, however the duration is subject to TP mods (if applicable). Extra TP does not enhance or further increase duration of YG or K.
 Asura.Volition
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By Asura.Volition 2009-02-24 17:44:37
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Enternius said:
Wooooodum said:
How would a SAM do this reliably? Weapon skill effects are not 100%, least of all on campaign mobs.


In my experience, Yukikaze and Kasha have about a 90% chance of sticking on Campaign mobs and damn near 100% on anything else. It's not rare at all.

Arnor said:
though i have heard rumors that the GKT dropped off zip in sky is compareable to hagun


I've had Ushikirimaru for a few months now, and I'm seriously considering getting rid of my Hagun altogether. It hasn't seen the light of day in, well, a few months, and the only reason I held on to it was because I was hoping SE might un-nerf it. Yes, Ushikirimaru is better, but Soboro still gives a bit higher total damage.

And to answer your question, Vol, Soboro does start getting better than Hagun if you have a ton of STR (+80 or so) on WS. It does give the mob a ton of TP, though. Not that it affects you. The tank is the one that has to deal with that, ehehehe...

SAM/DNC, Soboro gives more TP than you can burn from spamming Curing Waltz II every 7 seconds.

SAM/RNG, obviously, you'll be getting like 6 Sidewinders in a row.

Overall, Soboro is one of the most, if not THE most reasonable investment for SAM. Took me 3 months and over 30 cluster cores to get mine and I'd do it again if I had to.


Wow you must have had a bad luck streak. I'm 1/2, but everyone in my alliance before me was 1/1. We went 12/14 because one completely blew us all up earlier on.
 Alexander.Ashleylarry
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By Alexander.Ashleylarry 2009-02-24 18:00:21
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0-8 on soboro... sam is at 50 I wont lvl it till i get soboro
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By Garuda.Hypnotizd 2009-02-24 18:50:23
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Ashleylarry said:
0-8 on soboro... sam is at 50 I wont lvl it till i get soboro

Since numbers were thrown out... 1/1 Soboro SAM15
 Odin.Blazza
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By Odin.Blazza 2009-02-24 19:25:01
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Mitsurughy said:
Wooooodum said:
So my friend parsed him


For as far as i know, most if not all parser take data from log. og that is true youd never be able to parse a sam correctly to to the bug: " you change equip, SC dmg doesnt appear in log". As for that also knowing the soboro is also able to solo light specially in meripo where you got haste flowing over your ears making a great % of sam's dmg weaponskill and SC.
what i am saying is not that soboro is better but im pretty sure that the gap is certainly not 30%.
just do the math somehow:

Soboro DMG40 Hagun DMG75
so for normal attacks as soon a a double attack occures your almost there.
when you get tripple attack your over it.
Presume you use YGK at 100TP:
TPBOnus giving 1.875 for hagun and getting 1.5625 on soboro
so youw WS are more powerful on hagun ok.

So the difference between the 2 actually needing to compare the dmg% differecen on normal hits and that 1.875-1.5625 added to dmg difference which let say for easier viewing
1 soboro ws 40*1.5625= 62,5 and 1 hagun ws 75*1.875=140.625.
these number are purely representative since youd need a lot more in it, but since wpn DMG is the only factort i think this is ok.the difference beeing 225%

now the party i dont take sides: figure out soboro activation rate exactly both on double and triple AND add SC-s resisted or not.
seeing this i think numbers should be very close and im trully interestid if anyone got the true answer.
BUT its is certainley NOT 30%.

The one thing you're forgetting, as Woooodum said, it's not all about ws's, but also about getting above the mobs DEF rating with your crappy 40 DMG GKT (I mean come on, I use swords with 44 and 42 DMG).

sam/dnc soboro soro onry. The reason sam/dnc with soboro is so effective has nothing to do with "higher damage" it's about the fact that you're getting 2-3 times the HP return on endrain because it's based on weapon delay, so your double and triple attacks are basically counted as free hits, and the fact that you have so much tp that you can spam dnc cure as much as often as you like. The two trade-offs are a lower damage weapon, and feeding the mob over twice the tp. As blu I know a little about tp spam (my two best spells give the mob 100% instantly ; ;), and tp spamurais give a lot more than I do.

edit oh, and drop rate on soboro is so good I even had one for my level 1 sam at one stage.
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By Ragnarok.Matix 2009-02-24 19:25:45
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got a yoichi? itll last to 75!
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By Fairy.Basilo 2009-02-24 19:47:40
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I leveled sam recently for fun, droppped some combat merits for +10 great katana and 6+ skill in polearm. On the leveling exp party side of it 50+ id say soboro is useful for 4 levels until 54, colibri+polearm ftw. Most sync parties were either to lesser colibri level or to a normal colibri level i kept two polearms for party levels 54 to 67. Then i bought an Onkiri at 67+ for mire it seemed decent with the crit hit bonus, which then took me to hagun.

I dont actually have soboro, ive seen its solo potential with such vids out there of soboro sam/dnc soloing salvage nms. But leveling 50 to 75 where a good proportion of parties are sync'd to colibri i dont rate it as being particularly useful.
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-02-25 10:55:07
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To the OP Soboro till 73 > Onimaru till 75 w/ correct merits > Hagun.
Once you hit 73 sobo is for /rng and soro.
I personally would use Oni over hagun @ 73. Hagun is by far the best AH gkt you can get, however!, hagun does rely quite a bit on the rest of your gear, bottom line, it stinks when it comes to DOT and the damage done while TP'ing up. A 6 hit build / decent haste gear / Med merits / full Overwhelm merits, all boost haguns output, without these other things the line between hagun and other gkt shrinks quite a bit. Since pre 75 you will have none of those things I would use Oni for the 8 higher base, acc and att bonus.
Pre-Oni soboro crushes all, oh and 2 more things. 1. Never sub thf with soboro :/ People do that mess to make their ws look better but you lose out on Serk (God to a soboro) and your forced to wait on timers which negates the whole purpose of soboro in the first place. 2. Don't touch Ushi or Shin with a 100 ft pole, they are both crap and should never be used for anything.
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By Midgardsormr.Dabamylord 2009-02-27 02:33:32
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I used Soboro till SAM75. Reason for that is I'm /RNG and I can't afford a Hagun. There are limitations on using a Soboro however, for one I never use it against Imps and Skoffins due to their shitty AoE moves. If level syncing on Colibris where I sub NIN or THF, I never use Soboro if it's a NIN or WAR tank for obvious reasons: I don't wanna feed it TP so they won't do Pecking Flurry (instant shadow wipe), and since they're birds I'd rather using poking spears.
 Garuda.Darkfurycult
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By Garuda.Darkfurycult 2009-02-27 02:47:27
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i used it a lil bit till i got onto colibri and used polearm instead penta thrust which does 500+ usally
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By Cerberus.Saiya 2009-02-27 04:06:11
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I'm afraid to say that after trying it myself i've become a solid Polearm supporter for Aht Urghan parties 55+. Soboro is a good katana to have when you find use for it (I still need to get DNC to 37 so I can go use the Soro-boro [See what I did there? *wink wink*] in the best way possible.)

And obviously it's a good option when you're not fighting piercing-weak mobs, but as mentioned beware of mobs with powerful TP moves like Erucas, a regular GKT is the better choice for these. Come 72, Hagun is a wonderful choice that you'll never regret. But Onimaru is still a damn good GKT as far as stats go if you can't afford.

On the subject of Ushikirimaru vs Onimaru:

Ushikirimaru
(Great Katana) All Races
DMG: 82 Delay: 450 HP +15 STR +2
Enmity +2
Vs. beasts: Accuracy +7
Lv. 73 SAM

Onimaru
(Great Katana) All Races
DMG: 77 Delay: 450
Latent effect: DMG: 83
Lv. 73 SAM
Latent and hidden effect

Active while TP < 100% (includes Weapon Skills). Hidden effect: Attack +18 Accuracy +5

The difference is painfully obvious, for a meripo the Onimaru is far superior^^. So if no Hagun, gogo Onimaru (*sigh* I want my Hagun back!).
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By Siren.Flashgrant 2009-02-27 07:12:52
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i have soboro for my lvl 7 sam 1/1 on it :P
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By Diabolos.Megatron 2009-02-27 07:42:00
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i have been experimenting with my SAM for the last 13 Levels.
i play 63SAM/RNG with a soboro. now via my own personal data and referances the Soboro has not let me down yet. here is the main reason for using a soboro.

get 200tp
Sharpshot> Sekkanoki> Sidewinder> sidewinder> Meditate> sidewinder> barrage> standard ranged attack> sidewinder

and for fun. 2h sidewinder> sidewinder> sidewinder>
so 7 WS in under 45 sec all by onesself.

on aveage i hit around 500-800 dmg on a sidewinder at my current level using a war bow+1 and scorpion arrows. partner me with another ranger. and its pain city. i have bounced back and forth with diffrent gear and weapons but i always come back to my Soboro. as a /rng sam with a soboro you dont do GK ws its nothing but Sidewinder spamming. now as for endgame i'm not waisting 3.4 million gil for that GK on my server. a hagan may hit harder per hit but i hit faster. inabling myself and others to get more shill chains and MB's @65 i plan on getting the Grip that stuns. and seeing how often it procs on a soboro.

that also incresses the desire to use the soboro for me as well.
most of the time people knock the Soboro simply becasue they see the 40 dmg. not realising at 57 with ranger subed and a 175 ranged skill you have Sidewinder which beats ANY sam ws at that levels hands down.

at 65 i will be doing more tests via it and gekko. but at this time at 63 soboro/rng is the best dmg output i have done.
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By Asura.Korpg 2009-02-27 07:47:49
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I have noticed that most SAMs have replied mixed feelings on if they use Soboro at 75 or not. I also have noticed that those who give advice about "Hagun only" have yet to have a SAM at 75 yet.

I will give no advice, since my SAM is at 37. I do, however, wish to know more about what endgame and merit party SAMs use. I would like to level SAM soon, and this information will help me in that.
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By Odin.Blazza 2009-02-27 08:01:40
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Megatron said:
i have been experimenting with my SAM for the last 13 Levels.
i play 63SAM/RNG with a soboro. now via my own personal data and referances the Soboro has not let me down yet. here is the main reason for using a soboro.

get 200tp
Sharpshot> Sekkanoki> Sidewinder> sidewinder> Meditate> sidewinder> barrage> standard ranged attack> sidewinder

and for fun. 2h sidewinder> sidewinder> sidewinder>
so 7 WS in under 45 sec all by onesself.

on aveage i hit around 500-800 dmg on a sidewinder at my current level using a war bow+1 and scorpion arrows. partner me with another ranger. and its pain city. i have bounced back and forth with diffrent gear and weapons but i always come back to my Soboro. as a /rng sam with a soboro you dont do GK ws its nothing but Sidewinder spamming. now as for endgame i'm not waisting 3.4 million gil for that GK on my server. a hagan may hit harder per hit but i hit faster. inabling myself and others to get more shill chains and MB's @65 i plan on getting the Grip that stuns. and seeing how often it procs on a soboro.

that also incresses the desire to use the soboro for me as well.
most of the time people knock the Soboro simply becasue they see the 40 dmg. not realising at 57 with ranger subed and a 175 ranged skill you have Sidewinder which beats ANY sam ws at that levels hands down.

at 65 i will be doing more tests via it and gekko. but at this time at 63 soboro/rng is the best dmg output i have done.
I think everyone so far has agreed that Soboro is awesome until ~73. At least you're doing the right thing and using it for tp gain and then using /rng WS's instead of gimpy 40DMG GK WS's.

The issue with Soboro is tp spammage and low damage. The TP spammage issue varies depending on what you're fighting, but the 40 DMG becomes more of an issue the higher level you get as the DEF on your enemies increases.

The one thing that really interests me about this though, is that you mentioned being able to get more SC's and MB's. If you can find people that actually know how to MB in this day and age, then ***, soboro isn't the worst idea I've heard of for end-game... Having said that, standing back and using meditate or ranged attack as your only source of TP and doing less, but more powerful SC's using a Hagun would generally be more acceptable.

Edit: My SAM is level 1, so take what I say with a grain of salt...
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By Cerberus.Saiya 2009-02-27 08:11:33
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<-- SAM75/75RNG. For Sam/Rng, any choice but the soboro is ridiculous, this much is true. @Megatron: Your experiences with it thusfar are perfectly understandable. But keep in mind you're in situation where the piercing-weak mobs go down like nobody's business. What is permissable and efficient at lower levels becomes increasingly redundant as you face different challenges.

From a strictly XP/Merit standpoint, on Greater Colibris if you consistently knock out Sidewinders in the way you've decribed, and LAND THEM, you WILL die. The specialised gearsets needed for Sam/Rng to be effective don't allow for much in the way of damage mitigation. In additon to this, in an average merit PT your 600-800 Sidewinders will only do a fraction of the mob's HP compared to what they do now. With a SAM's sub-standard Archery skill, you'll miss a great deal, even with Archery fully meritted.

I'm not going to belabor what has been beaten to death on other threads, but testing of various GKT for Endgame/Merit/Levelling has been carried out throughly by dedicated players. People's support of the Hagun and not of the Soboro etc is well founded and backed up.

Edit* I posted too slow, but the comment about SC/MB is well founded; you won't see many of those for much longer in your SAM career. I'm a closet SC supporter, but no one cares or want to care, trust me =(.
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