4-hit Build In Decent Gear.

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4-hit build in decent gear.
 Diabolos.Raelia
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By Diabolos.Raelia 2010-09-13 06:14:12
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Reckoning +1
Eisen Grip
Rajas ring
/SAM
Minimum Samurai roll of +24 (SAM in party, COR has Snakeeye, etc).
Carbonara

Everything else is fair game.

657 delay, 15.4 tp/hit

Keep Rajas on for WS, +60 STP. Completely miss tolerant.

Lose Carbonara, get +5 more from Aurum Body or an Askar/Brutal combo, and you're miss-tolerant at +59 but have to WS in it. +60 for WS ups your secondaries to 1.6 each and makes a big difference.

Long ago I said "if SE ever gives us a Delay+ grip, we could do some scary ***".

The payoff:
4x528 = 2112 delay to WS
3x657 = 1971 delay to WS

Slower is faster. Its a bit of a gag really, but makes it on a minimum Samurai roll and those have gotten prolific in DNC healed Abyssea parties.
 Phoenix.Excelior
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-09-13 08:50:06
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Diabolos.Raelia said:
Reckoning +1 Eisen Grip Rajas ring /SAM Minimum Samurai roll of +24 (SAM in party, COR has Snakeeye, etc). Carbonara Everything else is fair game. 657 delay, 15.4 tp/hit Keep Rajas on for WS, +60 STP. Completely miss tolerant. Lose Carbonara, get +5 more from Aurum Body or an Askar/Brutal combo, and you're miss-tolerant at +59 but have to WS in it. +60 for WS ups your secondaries to 1.6 each and makes a big difference. Long ago I said "if SE ever gives us a Delay+ grip, we could do some scary ***". The payoff: 4x528 = 2112 delay to WS 3x657 = 1971 delay to WS Slower is faster. Its a bit of a gag really, but makes it on a minimum Samurai roll and those have gotten prolific in DNC healed Abyssea parties.

I don't know if we're being trolled or if this is serious. *** you nabis, you've made every post regarding x hit ambiguous now. :/

If this is serious, then the +25% delay would actually make you WS slower than a 6 hit. I'll do the math in a bit. You also lose more accuracy cause of gear swaps, and a massive ammount of DOT.
 Phoenix.Excelior
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-09-13 09:28:08
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Ok so basically:

You're WSing 25% faster
(Keep in mind sam roll makes 528 scythes into 5/4 hits)

4 hit vs 3hit = 3/4 =25%

However, you're swinging 20% slow 528/657= 20%ish

Ok for WSing

528*4= 2112/60= 35.2 seconds per swing

657*3=1971/60 = 32.85
32.85/35.2= 6% faster WS with 3/4 hit


so you basically gain 6% more WS frequency with this build.

However, you lose 20% of your melee damage just based on delay.

You also lose:

2% DA(this is 1.9% more ws damage and melee damage)

So this is your overall gain:

6%-1.9%(polegrip average)= 4% more WS damage
-20%-1.9%(pole grip average) = -22% melee damage

If you lost any accuracy % at all then you've lost any ground you gained on WSing. That's not even counting that -22% melee damage on drk is about -11% to your overall damage.

So assuming drk is a 50/50 WS/melee split on parse then:

You're actually doing 9% less damage overall:
(+4%*50% + -22%*50%)
 Diabolos.Raelia
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By Diabolos.Raelia 2010-09-14 02:37:30
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I just said it was faster, I didn't say it did more damage :3

Except neither 5-hit nor 4-hit should be anywhere near 50/50 split. Even 6-hit tends to fall on the WS-heavy side after Meditate and ATP.

Cross post:
Quote:
Same damage swinging 24.4% slower is more like 804 hits to 1000, so 19.6% less melee damage but its still easier to just use the 0.804.

2112 / 1971 = 1.0715373 = 7.15% more WS

So if you presume 200 damage melee, 1000 damage WS, its a 10/6 spread for 4-hit and a 10/8 spread for 5-hit (WS/TP), or 62.5:37.5 and 55.5:44.5

4-hit: 62.5 * 1.0715 more WS + 37.5 * 0.804 = 97.12
5-hit: 55.5+44.5 = 100

So 4-hitting does 2.88% less damage, but still looks 110% cooler.

I would also raise the conjecture that any difference in damage is made up by any reduction in overage and WS saturation. Even at capped haste you'd have 2.2 seconds per swing, a full half second more leniency to lag and bouncy mobs. The largest problem I encounter at high haste is Consistency. Too much math is thrown at perfect situations and perfect execution, when real mechanics can cripple such builds (See: OAT/OA3 WS saturation).

Its a totally flippant build, plus we're comparing to the holy-grail 5-hit, while it crushes 6-hit with lulz to spare. Sure, if you can pull this off you can pull out the 5-hit with just about any 528 scythe, but whats the fun in that?


Dunno why you're whining about accuracy, the only thing involved with a +Acc alternative is Rajas Ring which you'd be wearing for 5-hit anyway, same with eating Carbonara unless you have Goading Belt or Tactical Mantle.

Also, you round numbers off waaaay too short.
 Cerberus.Kvazz
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By Cerberus.Kvazz 2010-09-14 02:41:24
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I dont really think Eisen grip is worth it in any scenario I can think of..
Except for idle on mages with terra! :p
 Diabolos.Raelia
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By Diabolos.Raelia 2010-09-14 02:46:47
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Cerberus.Kvazz said:
I dont really think Eisen grip is worth it in any scenario I can think of..
Somebody give this *** a prize! He's *** brilliant! He deserves an award! He is the paragon of forum intelligence! You all should see him as a shining example of incredible contributance to discussion!


tl;dr Thanks for the *** obvious, its a gag build and/or technical demonstration.
 Cerberus.Kvazz
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By Cerberus.Kvazz 2010-09-14 02:55:58
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Diabolos.Raelia said:
Cerberus.Kvazz said:
I dont really think Eisen grip is worth it in any scenario I can think of..
Somebody give this *** a prize! He's *** brilliant! He deserves an award! He is the paragon of forum intelligence! You all should see him as a shining example of incredible contributance to discussion!


tl;dr Thanks for the *** obvious, its a gag build and/or technical demonstration.

Wow >_>

I'm just sick of seeing everybody making builds with it, and seeing people use it.. Seen a few amanos with it and it makes me cry D:
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 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2010-09-14 03:08:40
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Bry dig inte om "den", verkar vara en väldigt otrevlig typ :P
 Cerberus.Kvazz
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By Cerberus.Kvazz 2010-09-14 03:30:36
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Bismarck.Dracondria said:
Bry dig inte om "den", verkar vara en väldigt otrevlig typ :P

mhm =P
 Phoenix.Excelior
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-09-14 09:51:21
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I'm not gonna lie, I knew this was a fake post, but I wanted to believe it was serious. I wanted to believe that perhaps this was a day free of Nabis's grip of ignorance on our forums. I was wrong.
 Diabolos.Raelia
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By Diabolos.Raelia 2010-09-15 19:50:11
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Phoenix.Excelior said:
I'm not gonna lie, I knew this was a fake post, but I wanted to believe it was serious. I wanted to believe that perhaps this was a day free of Nabis's grip of ignorance on our forums. I was wrong.
No, it totally works, it just isn't better than 5-hitting.
Quote:
- An issue wherein attack speeds will be slower when certain grip items are equipped has been addressed.
But I think this means 'nevermind'.
 Quetzalcoatl.Giazz
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By Quetzalcoatl.Giazz 2010-09-15 20:01:03
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lol so they took the "hidden effect" of +24% delay away from the Eisen grip.
 Phoenix.Fredjan
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By Phoenix.Fredjan 2010-09-15 20:06:38
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You can actually do it without LOLEISENGRIP.
But you need SAM roll and odd tp gear, so it isn't a very viable option.
edit: actually, just checked out ffxicalc.
Reckoning +1, Rose Strap, White Tath, Brutal, Rajas, and Korazin can 4-hit assuming SAM in pt + IX or higher roll.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-15 20:08:03
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3 hit zanshin build or gtfo! Also the update notes for today imply that they fixed eisen grip
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 Diabolos.Raelia
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By Diabolos.Raelia 2010-09-15 20:15:08
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Phoenix.Fredjan said:
You can actually do it without LOLEISENGRIP.
But you need SAM roll and odd tp gear, so it isn't a very viable option.
edit: actually, just checked out ffxicalc.
Reckoning +1, Rose Strap, White Tath, Brutal, Rajas, and Korazin can 4-hit assuming SAM in pt + IX or higher roll.
That was the point of this wankery though, it work(s/ed) on a minimum SAM roll, so you're consistently 4-hitting unless your COR is a retard.

I find it weird they said 'items' like it was more than just Eisen Grip, but putting Great Katanas right at the 530 delay 'sweet spot' for TP gain was probably a bad idea from the start.

I realize too late that this probably would have been better for a 5-hit GS build, though it overshoots 530 by a bit.
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By Phoenix.Fredjan 2010-09-15 20:16:07
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Ramuh.Dasva said:
3 hit zanshin build or gtfo! grip
Who needs a Zanshin 3-hit build when you can have this.
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 Fenrir.Gradd
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By Fenrir.Gradd 2010-09-16 01:31:42
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Did they really get rid of the delay? or did they change it or something?
 Asura.Magicide
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By Asura.Magicide 2010-10-03 08:41:10
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I know this particular post was a bit of a gag build, but some of the new gear allows a pretty easy 4hit w/Reckoning +1 and COR+SAM in the party without any major concessions. Ace's Sabatons and Goading Belt open up quite a few options. That + Rajas/Brutal/White Tathlum allows for a 4-hit with a SAM roll of 8+, without Carbonara, allowing for full gear swaps on WS so long as 3/4 guillotine hits connect. No need for Carbonara, no need for Askar/Aurum Body, no need to ditch Abyssal Earring for +1 STP, and certainly no need for +25% delay.
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2010-10-03 09:42:48
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Diabolos.Raelia said:
Reckoning +1
Eisen Grip
Rajas ring
/SAM
Minimum Samurai roll of +24 (SAM in party, COR has Snakeeye, etc).
Carbonara

Everything else is fair game.

657 delay, 15.4 tp/hit

Keep Rajas on for WS, +60 STP. Completely miss tolerant.

Lose Carbonara, get +5 more from Aurum Body or an Askar/Brutal combo, and you're miss-tolerant at +59 but have to WS in it. +60 for WS ups your secondaries to 1.6 each and makes a big difference.

Long ago I said "if SE ever gives us a Delay+ grip, we could do some scary ***".

The payoff:
4x528 = 2112 delay to WS
3x657 = 1971 delay to WS

Slower is faster. Its a bit of a gag really, but makes it on a minimum Samurai roll and those have gotten prolific in DNC healed Abyssea parties.

The OP has passed inspection of the Bureau Of HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE Dumbfuckery.



Nabis Seal of Quality Award Date: Sunday October 3rd, 2010. 07:41[PDT]
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