For All Of You Enjoying Low-man VNMs...

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For all of you enjoying low-man VNMs...
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 Cerberus.Cyphon
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By Cerberus.Cyphon 2010-09-02 11:59:07
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... think about it if you wanna continue with that.

***-F***** for SE's mistakes?

Just wanted to post it. Some may know it already.. some may not.. so take it as an official evidence..
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 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-02 12:01:54
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You do realize that it isn't actually a rule and he is only making a judgement call right? Not only would other GMs possibly disagree or not care but he might he even change his mind another time (it's happened before).

No where in the user agreements does it say that is not allowed. Someone was probably just pissed you were doing it and taking awhile so called on you
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 Gilgamesh.Dionel
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By Gilgamesh.Dionel 2010-09-02 12:10:28
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It depends, I don't know what was happening, but I'm guessing your pt was kiting the nm then do a hit and run. SE has mentioned this before and it is time consuming because you're not giving other a chance at it. Like I said I don't know what was happening, I'm more likely taking BS out of my mouth. I've seen this done before and I'll just annoying the guy until he's killed 45 minutes later.
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 Lakshmi.Aurilius
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By Lakshmi.Aurilius 2010-09-02 12:14:44
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Pretty much what Dasva said. Another GM and another time, and they wouldn't have even sent you a tell.

Depends on who reported you, and what GM they happen to get.
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 Cerberus.Cyphon
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By Cerberus.Cyphon 2010-09-02 12:21:04
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We killed it "fence-wise"... was a shadow crab @ 11% before we decidied to just wipe... we fighted like 40min and no one watched us.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-02 12:22:56
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In this case though forcing you to wipe is a little extreme... I'd report the GM or make an official complaint
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 Cerberus.Cyphon
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By Cerberus.Cyphon 2010-09-02 12:24:25
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he forced us to change strategy cause using a bug isn't what SE wants..

next time in Hagun BCNM:

"You're using bug, cause Antlion can't hit through the rock!" LM-17
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 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-02 12:26:16
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It's not even a bug. It's normal bad pathing most mobs do. But of course there is no problem when mobs just run thru walls to get to you
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 Lakshmi.Aurilius
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By Lakshmi.Aurilius 2010-09-02 12:27:24
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I'd have just killed it. But then again the rest of your team might not have taken that risk.
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By chichi 2010-09-02 12:30:02
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this ***pisses me off...they haven't/hadn't done a damn thing for the past what..10 years to all the botting/rmt ***..then someone legitametly does something and they get a tell that says they need to stop or get punished....btw when I say haven't "done" anything I mean on a widescale by any means.
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 Cerberus.Cyphon
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By Cerberus.Cyphon 2010-09-02 12:30:37
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well what would you do, if you get told to stop fighting like that or getting banned. we had no time to think about "hmm.. this GM might be fake?"

UPDATE: Con just told with a SGM and this one said: we can do it again, but if another GM see it we have to stop but won't get banned
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By chichi 2010-09-02 12:31:26
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Cerberus.Cyphon said:
well what would you do, if you get told to stop fighting like that or getting banned. we had no time to think about "hmm.. this GM might be fake?"

no not fake..just not doing his job like he should be
 Fenrir.Schutz
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By Fenrir.Schutz 2010-09-02 12:33:13
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A Penality will be issued...is that a move from Mortal Kombat?


Cerberus.Cyphon said:
UPDATE: Con just told with a SGM and this one said: we can do it again, but if another GM see it we have to stop but won't get banned

At least they are giving the benefit of the doubt to players. It does sound like the confusion of enforcement over the Yonin "glitch abuse" that occurred previously.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-02 12:33:37
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Cerberus.Cyphon said:
well what would you do, if you get told to stop fighting like that or getting banned. we had no time to think about "hmm.. this GM might be fake?" UPDATE: Con just told with a SGM and this one said: we can do it again, but if another GM see it we have to stop but won't get banned
He didn't say ban. He said appropriate action. And given the circumstances you could've easily requested someone higher to review it and won
 Lakshmi.Aurilius
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By Lakshmi.Aurilius 2010-09-02 12:35:45
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The GM was just taking his personal judgement on the matter and telling you he was going to take action.

I'd have killed it, and waited to see what he was going to do as "punishment".

I wouldn't have even responded as you did with the whole "Just let us kill it since it's at 11% deal". I'd have just finished it off.

Odds are he wouldn't have done anything. And if he did, then you go over his head.
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By chichi 2010-09-02 12:36:52
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when he asked you to stop you should've said...ok I will..right after I finish killing this nm.
 Bismarck.Elanabelle
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By Bismarck.Elanabelle 2010-09-02 12:42:39
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Heh.

This is like getting pulled over for speeding 70 mph in a 60 mph zone.


You could potentially do this 100 times and never get caught.
Or, you get caught the very first time you did it.

Yeah, you got caught.
Sorry that happened. But it just isn't a big deal.
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 Fenrir.Schutz
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By Fenrir.Schutz 2010-09-02 12:48:26
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Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
Heh.

This is like getting pulled over for speeding 70 mph in a 60 mph zone.


You could potentially do this 100 times and never get caught.
Or, you get caught the very first time you did it.

Yeah, you got caught.
Sorry that happened. But it just isn't a big deal.

Unless there was someone else in the zone who called the GM on them for doing that, I get the impression that the GMs are purposefully monitoring those particular VNMs that can be affected by terrain pathing (at least until some update changes the behaviour.)

So I'm not sure this was just a case of "being caught while a cop happened to be nearby" I think.
 Siren.Delirium
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By Siren.Delirium 2010-09-02 12:48:48
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Also just because you're low manning something doesn't mean you should abuse game mechanics in order to succede.

SE could fix it by changing its pathing so that it just walks through/over walls, thus eliminating this entire conversation.
 Pandemonium.Spicyryan
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By Pandemonium.Spicyryan 2010-09-02 12:51:16
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They should send that GM over to FFXIV!
 Lakshmi.Aurilius
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By Lakshmi.Aurilius 2010-09-02 12:52:01
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Or just give it draw in or make it like Yilbegan and if it gets too far from you it depops.

They could have fixed this issue already, but they did not.

*** them.

People in my shell do this ***on a daily basis. They aren't monitoring ***. That GM was called on you.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-02 12:53:05
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Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
Heh. This is like getting pulled over for speeding 70 mph in a 60 mph zone. You could potentially do this 100 times and never get caught. Or, you get caught the very first time you did it. Yeah, you got caught. Sorry that happened. But it just isn't a big deal.
Yeah that analogy would work... if there was a posted rule anywhere about this
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 Gilgamesh.Thedreamer
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By Gilgamesh.Thedreamer 2010-09-02 12:55:55
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if time was an issue they shoulda just put a ssj system, thats retarded...
 Quetzalcoatl.Trauma
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trauma 2010-09-02 13:12:36
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http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/rule/manner03.html?pageID=manner

There are no rules permitting the use of terrain as part of a strategy to defeat a monster. The only rule I can see that a GM would be able to use against you is
-"Any other action that is determined by a GM to cause a disruption in gameplay."
which is incredibly vague and could almost be used to justify any action taken by a GM.

If this happens to anyone else, ask the GM to link or quote the exact phrase saying this strategy is not allowed. In my opinion, it's no different than kiting Kirin. PLDs never get hit with melee attacks while kiting Kirin and this strategy has been employed for years without any action being taken.

inb4 "GM>> Unfortunately, the NM Kirin can't attack properly because of your current strategy. I suggest you to change your strategy, or I am afraid I should take an action."
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 Bismarck.Lighttaru
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By Bismarck.Lighttaru 2010-09-02 13:15:07
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omg, im speechless. 1 word for that GM: *******. Maybe he didnt get is *** in the mornin who know XD
Fenrir.Schutz said:
Unless there was someone else in the zone who called the GM on them for doing that, I get the impression that the GMs are purposefully monitoring those particular VNMs that can be affected by terrain pathing (at least until some update changes the behaviour.)

So I'm not sure this was just a case of "being caught while a cop happened to be nearby" I think.

lot of ppl lowman VNM n such in bismarck n i never heard about a GM tellin such ***. hell if they really would monitoring VNM the guy that have a video about him soloin a VNM in xarcabard as rng would never had happen.
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 Cerberus.Kvazz
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By Cerberus.Kvazz 2010-09-02 13:19:00
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Woah that sucks lol
I've used this strat tons of times, never had issues D:
Hopefully I'll manage to get 10 shells unnoticed >_<
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 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-02 13:20:25
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I've seen screenshots of GMs making rulings like this... and then making the exact opposite ones. Like the same GM.
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 Bismarck.Lighttaru
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By Bismarck.Lighttaru 2010-09-02 13:21:00
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Quetzalcoatl.Trauma said:
http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/rule/manner03.html?pageID=manner

There are no rules permitting the use of terrain as part of a strategy to defeat a monster. The only rule I can see that a GM would be able to use against you is
-"Any other action that is determined by a GM to cause a disruption in gameplay."
which is incredibly vague and could almost be used to justify any action taken by a GM.

If this happens to anyone else, ask the GM to link or quote the exact phrase saying this strategy is not allowed. In my opinion, it's no different than kiting Kirin. PLDs never get hit with melee attacks while kiting Kirin and this strategy has been employed for years without any action being taken.

inb4 "GM>> Unfortunately, the NM Kirin can't attack properly because of your current strategy. I suggest you to change your strategy, or I am afraid I should take an action."
damn hell yea, totally forgot about kirin lol. We could even add ulli
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 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-02 13:23:05
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You could add alot of mobs.

The point is very little ig stuff that is actually game related is called out as being not allowed or being bannable. Just check the user agreements. Most of it has to do with intellectual theft and harrassment and such
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 Alexander.Varistor
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By Alexander.Varistor 2010-09-02 13:24:38
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you should have told him to show you or tell you where it is stated that it was an inappropriate way to kill it. I just killed the jnun in xarc last night with 5 ppl and no problems. there were a couple ppl waiting by us to fight ruthven after. no problems at all.
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