DRK Merits (Job Specific)

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DRK Merits (Job specific)
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 Bahamut.Bojack
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By Bahamut.Bojack 2010-08-25 17:46:28
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What's your opinion's on this?

I was thinking Desperate Blows 5/5 seems nice. Then I was thinking Last Resort Effect 5/5 and Recast 5/5 to go with that would be nice as well. But not sure what else is best in group 2.
 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2010-08-25 17:48:44
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I did LR effect/recast 5/5, DB 4/5, DE 5/5 and 1 Dark Seal (useful in some situations).
 Siren.Enternius
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By Siren.Enternius 2010-08-25 17:48:50
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I just did 5/5 DB, 5/5 DE, 5/5 Last Resort Recast, 5/5 Last Resort effect.

Muted Soul is kind of pointless unless maxed out and then is only really useful for zergs if you have your 2hr up also.

And Dark Seal may have some uses now but I doubt it.
 Ramuh.Aramachus
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By Ramuh.Aramachus 2010-08-25 18:02:04
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if youre subbing sam most of the time hasso will give 10% haste and I think - not 100% sure tho - that since haste cap for abilities is 25% you'll benefit only of 3 merits in desperate blows.
1 merit in dark seal is definitely good to make sure the drain II before souleater 2hr will hit
 Siren.Enternius
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By Siren.Enternius 2010-08-25 18:04:15
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Well I don't know about you, Ara, but when I use Last Resort/Desperate Blows, I occasionally use Souleater with it. Increased attack speed and also Accuracy and a ton of damage.

While that's going on, I switch to Seigan. No haste lost, due to 5/5 DB, and yet you're protected while you're eating your own HP with SE.

Once it wears off and you lose hate, just switch back to Hasso.

Besides, is there really anything else that's worth meritting anyway?
 Cerberus.Kvazz
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By Cerberus.Kvazz 2010-08-25 18:13:00
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Bismarck.Dracondria said:
I did LR effect/recast 5/5, DB 4/5, DE 5/5 and 1 Dark Seal (useful in some situations).

Exactly what I did aswell.
Serves me well!
 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2010-08-25 18:14:56
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Wish LR lasted a little longer, would also help to close the gap between DRK and other DDs.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Giazz
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By Quetzalcoatl.Giazz 2010-08-25 18:14:58
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I used to have:

last resort recast 5/5
Last resort effect 5/5
Desperate blows 4/5
Diabolic eye 5/5
Dark seal 1/5

However, I found that I never used Dark seal that much, with a 15minute recast timer. Plus with max Dark magic merits, and a really good dark magic gear set, I figured that removing the dark seal merit in favor of 5/5 desperate blows would be more beneficial overall.

Another option could have been to keep the 1 dark seal merit, and make diabolic eye 4/5, and desperate blows 5/5 (5/5 desperate blows is nice for when you're /nin, or /sam but using seigan + third eye); but again, I figured that 1 dark seal merit wasn't that necessary.

Therefore, this is what I have for DRK merits at the moment: (Same as Enternius basically)

last resort recast 5/5
Last resort effect 5/5
Desperate blows 5/5
Diabolic eye 5/5

 Bahamut.Zorander
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By Bahamut.Zorander 2010-08-25 18:19:58
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There really isn't but like ppl have said you can and will reach Haste Cape with 5/5 Desperate Blows so alot of ppl don't like the idea of doing 5/5 and wasting it..

Before in order to reach haste cap iirc you needed 3/5 Homam which I didn't have so 5/5 was ok..now that I have it it's a waste.

I did..
5/5 Recast
5/5 Effect
5/5 Desperate Blows
4/5 Diabolic Eye
1/5 Dark Seal (yes I think its worth it)
 Bahamut.Satanas
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By Bahamut.Satanas 2010-08-25 18:33:50
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Siren.Enternius said:


Once it wears off and you lose hate, just switch back to Hasso.


I lol'd :), you'll lose hate once you die or the mob dies lol
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 Quetzalcoatl.Giazz
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By Quetzalcoatl.Giazz 2010-08-25 18:46:59
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Bahamut.Satanas said:
Siren.Enternius said:


Once it wears off and you lose hate, just switch back to Hasso.


I lol'd :), you'll lose hate once you die or the mob dies lol

I think Enternius meant "once lastresort/desperateblows wears off, AND you lose hate, you can switch from seigan back to hasso for the haste" .. which does make sense.

Also, nah... you can also lose hate by having another DD pull hate as well.

Unless you're in a pick up group where the other DDs just totally suck that they are unable to pull hate themselves, then it is not impossible for you to lose hate before you or the mob dies.

Either way, I've personally found 5/5 desperate blows very nice when I'm tanking as drk/nin, or as drk/sam with seigan + third eye.
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 Fenrir.Gradd
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By Fenrir.Gradd 2010-08-25 19:38:42
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5/5 Last Resort Recast/Effect

5/5 Desperate blows

5/5 Diabolic eye

I had Dark Seal but got rid of it to max out desperate blows, didn't impress me much other than for getting a drain II in before a zerg, which usually got resisted anyways.
 Cerberus.Zandra
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By Cerberus.Zandra 2010-08-26 09:58:26
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Diabolic Eye is useless nowadays, was pretty much useless before too, -15% HP is HUGE and esp if you aren't going /nin it can be a death sentence if you grab hate after a WS especially after a Souleater Guillotine.

5/5 LR effect
5/5 LR recast

1/5 Dark Seal
5/5 Desperate Blows
4/5 Muted Soul

Muted Soul is GREAT say hello to a Souleater Guillotine WS that doesn't get you killed.
 Bahamut.Zorander
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By Bahamut.Zorander 2010-08-26 10:07:15
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Cerberus.Zandra said:
Diabolic Eye is useless nowadays, was pretty much useless before too, -15% HP is HUGE and esp if you aren't going /nin it can be a death sentence if you grab hate after a WS especially after a Souleater Guillotine. 5/5 LR effect 5/5 LR recast 1/5 Dark Seal 5/5 Desperate Blows 4/5 Muted Soul Muted Soul is GREAT say hello to a Souleater Guillotine WS that doesn't get you killed.
Ehh I dont know if I agree with you 100% on this but you do have a point..if you had problems before you surely shouldn't now at 80 and soon to be 85.

Having said that I think that Diabolic Eye is still just as good if not better than muted soul.
 Asura.Zemzerrett
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By Asura.Zemzerrett 2010-08-26 10:32:36
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Casting Dread Spikes before you use an ability like Last Resort or Soul Eater will allow you to survive longer whether you are /nin or not. Most Dark Knights overlook Dread Spikes, and how to use it strategically.
 Quetzalcoatl.Trauma
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trauma 2010-08-26 10:35:03
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I might get flamed for this but...
5/5 LR Recast
5/5 SE Recast
5/5 Desperate Blows
5/5 Dark Seal :P

Personally, I love dark seal. Fully merited it has the same recast as Nether Void so I can always get a kickass Drain 2 from any mob (even HNM). I rarely use Souleater without over 2000 HP thanks to this setup.

Diabolic Eye is okay and allows you to change up from a traditional accuracy build to something with a little more attack but I personally felt Dark Seal was better for me, being a lover of Dark Magic.

Muted Soul isn't very good. Sure, it's a huge reduction in enmity but any good Souleater Guillotine will still pull hate. This merit is for DRKs who are scared to be DRKs.
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 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-08-26 10:36:16
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Cerberus.Zandra said:
Diabolic Eye is useless nowadays, was pretty much useless before too, -15% HP is HUGE and esp if you aren't going /nin it can be a death sentence if you grab hate after a WS especially after a Souleater Guillotine.

How many attacks that oneshot you from max HP even with -15%? If you're >>Souleater<< Guillotining with Diabolic Eye up, that is your own problem, not the fault of the JA. It's still a great JA.
 Cerberus.Zandra
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By Cerberus.Zandra 2010-08-26 10:36:21
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Asura.Zemzerrett said:
Casting Dread Spikes before you use an ability like Last Resort or Soul Eater will allow you to survive longer whether you are /nin or not. Most Dark Knights overlook Dread Spikes, and how to use it strategically.

Quite true but unfortunately the seconds that it takes casting Dread spikes substantially reduce your DPS.

Edit: I see your point but that extra 1/2 swing (or full swing) you loose out on by casting may lessen the likelyhood that you even need it to begin with as you may move down on the hate list to a point that you don't even draw it with the WS.
 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2010-08-26 10:37:18
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Bahamut.Raenryong said:
Cerberus.Zandra said:
Diabolic Eye is useless nowadays, was pretty much useless before too, -15% HP is HUGE and esp if you aren't going /nin it can be a death sentence if you grab hate after a WS especially after a Souleater Guillotine.

How many attacks that oneshot you from max HP even with -15%? If you're >>Souleater<< Guillotining with Diabolic Eye up, that is your own problem, not the fault of the JA. It's still a great JA.

Tusk from a Bugard in Abyssea did 1180 on my WAR >_>
 
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 Cerberus.Zandra
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By Cerberus.Zandra 2010-08-26 10:44:55
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Bahamut.Raenryong said:
Cerberus.Zandra said:
Diabolic Eye is useless nowadays, was pretty much useless before too, -15% HP is HUGE and esp if you aren't going /nin it can be a death sentence if you grab hate after a WS especially after a Souleater Guillotine.

How many attacks that oneshot you from max HP even with -15%? If you're >>Souleater<< Guillotining with Diabolic Eye up, that is your own problem, not the fault of the JA. It's still a great JA.


A fully connected souleater Guillotine will take ~40 of your HP maybe more if you have any of the pieces that buff it. If you still have 60% of your HP say ~850, A hundred fists, TP move or double attack can get you in BIG trouble real quick. You're in a better position having as little hate as possible at that point, rather than have an additional -15% hp and more hate.
 Asura.Zemzerrett
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By Asura.Zemzerrett 2010-08-26 10:45:01
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Cerberus.Zandra said:
Asura.Zemzerrett said:
Casting Dread Spikes before you use an ability like Last Resort or Soul Eater will allow you to survive longer whether you are /nin or not. Most Dark Knights overlook Dread Spikes, and how to use it strategically.

Quite true but unfortunately the seconds that it takes casting Dread spikes substantially reduce your DPS.

lol I don't see what the point is in worrying about DPS.
 Cerberus.Zandra
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By Cerberus.Zandra 2010-08-26 11:27:14
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Asura.Zemzerrett said:
lol I don't see what the point is in worrying about DPS.


DRK is a DD, how do you not worry about DPS?
 Lakshmi.Leondimas
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By Lakshmi.Leondimas 2010-08-26 12:10:49
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Souleater Recast 5/5
Last Resort Effect 5/5

Dark Seal 1/5
Desperate Blows 4/5
Diabolic Eye 5/5

This is what I've been running with for quite some time. And I have to say it works pretty well.

I use Souleater as much as possible and anyone that knows me can vouch for that. The funny thing is, Last Resort gets me killed, Souleater does not and I run it the whole duration. TP moves suck. :(
 
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 Cerberus.Zandra
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By Cerberus.Zandra 2010-08-26 12:32:36
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Caitsith.Shiroi said:
Casting Dread spikes and not getting hate is a waste of DPS, casting dread spikes and getting hate will make your DPS catch up from the HP you drain by getting hit (and also not dying).
Good point I hadn't realized that fact before, however it IS a gamble, although it could provide for an argument to stack emnity for a WS.

...the thought of stacking emnity for a souleater guillotine really make me think DRKs ARE crazy.

Quetzalcoatl.Trauma said:
Muted Soul isn't very good. Sure, it's a huge reduction in enmity but any good Souleater Guillotine will still pull hate. This merit is for DRKs who are scared to be DRKs.
I disagree completely, but I lol-ed hard when i read this.
 Quetzalcoatl.Trauma
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trauma 2010-08-26 13:01:21
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Cerberus.Zandra said:
...the thought of stacking emnity for a souleater guillotine really make me think DRKs ARE crazy.

The thought of you thinking that DRKs need to stack enmity to pull hate with Souleater (even with 5/5 Muted Soul) makes me think YOU are crazy.

Casting Dread Spikes can be done between monsters and will not decrease your DPS at all. Like Shiroi said it will only increase it. If you can't pull hate for Dread Spikes then you are doing something very, very wrong.

I honestly do not get why anyone would think Muted Soul is better than the other options. >< How much of a wuss are you? When I Souleater Guillotine monsters don't last long enough to hurt me any more than souleater did. There are so many ways you can negate damage more efficiently, like using Seigan + Third Eye before a WS or having NIN sub. Stun or Weapon Bash after a big WS will give mages more than enough time to cure or for you to cast Drain. If you were smart enough to cast Dread Spikes then you'll even have that to fall back on once shadows/third eye is down.

You say you don't want to reduce your DPS at all, not even for 3 seconds to cast Dread Spikes, but you gimp your job by choosing to protect it over making it a better DD. Acc +20 for every 3 of 5 minutes will increase your DPS more than -50 enmity ever would. Even if it made Souleater produce no hate at all it would still be worthless compared to the other options.
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 Bahamut.Zorander
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By Bahamut.Zorander 2010-08-26 13:04:49
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Cerberus.Zandra said:
Bahamut.Raenryong said:
Cerberus.Zandra said:
Diabolic Eye is useless nowadays, was pretty much useless before too, -15% HP is HUGE and esp if you aren't going /nin it can be a death sentence if you grab hate after a WS especially after a Souleater Guillotine.
How many attacks that oneshot you from max HP even with -15%? If you're >>Souleater<< Guillotining with Diabolic Eye up, that is your own problem, not the fault of the JA. It's still a great JA.
A fully connected souleater Guillotine will take ~40 of your HP maybe more if you have any of the pieces that buff it. If you still have 60% of your HP say ~850, A hundred fists, TP move or double attack can get you in BIG trouble real quick. You're in a better position having as little hate as possible at that point, rather than have an additional -15% hp and more hate.
If you are going for huge number with SE why would you ws while DE is up..so the HP wouldn't be an issue at all..you missed his point.

JA that only increased DD output or potential
or
JA that only Reduces Emn but in the end you will most likely still pull hate.

Which is better? you tell me.
 Lakshmi.Leondimas
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By Lakshmi.Leondimas 2010-08-26 14:08:15
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Why would anyone Souleater and Diabolic Eye at the same time? That's super accuracy overkill on top of making Souleater less potent.

As far as being topic related, this is why I have my merits set up the way they are. When I need it, a semi-constant 20 Acc buff cycling DE and SE. That's 20 acc every 4 min. Even so during that last minute before Souleater is back up there's always Absorb-Acc to bridge the gap.
 Cerberus.Zandra
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By Cerberus.Zandra 2010-08-26 14:18:06
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Quetzalcoatl.Trauma said:
Cerberus.Zandra said:
...the thought of stacking emnity for a souleater guillotine really make me think DRKs ARE crazy.

The thought of you thinking that DRKs need to stack enmity to pull hate with Souleater (even with 5/5 Muted Soul) makes me think YOU are crazy.

You say you don't want to reduce your DPS at all, not even for 3 seconds to cast Dread Spikes, but you gimp your job by choosing to protect it over making it a better DD. Acc +20 for every 3 of 5 minutes will increase your DPS more than -50 enmity ever would. Even if it made Souleater produce no hate at all it would still be worthless compared to the other options.

lol...

First of all you should have laughed at what I said (as it was a joke) but since you're choosing to be a troll, I'll respond in the like, so listen carefully, I know it'll be tough for you but please try.

If you're accuracy is capped, which it should be these days your 5/5 in diabolic eye is WORTHLESS. Lemme say it again... WORTHLESS. If using this WORTHLESS JA causes you to hold back from using souleater when you WS, you're further limiting your dps as well.

If your accuracy ISN'T capped, eat accuracy food! Pizza or sushi if you need to, but I don't buy any argument that you can cap your accuracy via Diabolic eye and not via food for 3/5 minutes but not need it capped for the other 2.

The only time diabolic eye would ever be useful would be if you could not achieve the accuracy cap via food and gear and could only do it through diabolic eye for 3/5 minutes.

I'm know those situations still exist, but I'm pretty sure you could count them all with one hand. Muted Soul is far better for keeping you alive longer when you're using souleater, in zergs or general fighting.
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