Reckoning: Store TP Or SH Bonus?

DISCLAIMER: This is just a thread seeing which of these two options would be preferable, more useful, etc. I realize there are a considerable amount of more powerful scythes out there, so I'm not looking for "just get a Perdu/where's your relic?/OAT or GTFO" blah blah blah.

I'm on the next stage of completing this scythe trial and just trying to decide which of these two options to go with. I really like using Spiral Hell, and it has put up much higher numbers than Guillotine, but only sporadically, and after several buffs and 300% TP. A +10% bonus to SH would be great, but I'm thinking the Store TP would be more consistent, more of the time. Ideas?

Spiral Hell is great when you have 300tp and you get to Sata aswell. Imagina a SH sata WS with another 10% factored in b4 the sata..... Holy Santa Clause ***!! If you wana go for big numbers, thats the way to go. If you wanna get to 300tp faster, choose the Store Tp.

To get the most out of Reckoning(Store TP), you're gonna need the Goading belt, that drops from Lacovie. Lacovie is hard to pop, and not particularly easy to kill. The result however, is one of the top-tier scythe's.

Apocalypse(80-75) OAT(Maleficence/Vengeance XP burn only) Reckoning(Store TP) Redemption (If you maintain a 6hit with that very low delay, Goading belt Required as well), Absolution(STR/ATK). This seems to be the efficacy ranking (At least in theory) that's been adopted by the DRK community. It's second-hand information from me, maybe someone who's run the math could show you how it would play out.


Failing the Goading belt 5-hit requirement, you are still left with a fairly easy 105 DMG scythe. Certainly nothing to stroke your nipples over, but certainly nothing to dismiss.


Spiral Hell version of the Reckoning, I'm reluctant to suggest, because Spiral Hell, even on the best days, simply matches Guillotine without Sneak Attack, and on the worst days, is Slice II. I don't want this to degrade into a flame war, but if Spiral Hell is beating Guillotine any time other than 300tp sneak attack, you need to rebuild your guillotine equipment.

Thank you for the suggestions! I will admit my "gimpness" up front, I have nothing to hide. My guillotines average around 1200 dmg, whereas un-buffed Spiral Hell averages around 600-800 dmg. However, when I'm soloing and feeling "saucy", I'll throw out Absorb-INT, Absorb-STR, 300 TP, and have Abyss Gauntlets macroed in and have gotten Spiral Hell over 2300 dmg. That's pretty nice, but a huge rarity. I'd like something to make SH more "reliable" other than subbing THF.

On the other hand, I sort of feel like the Store TP would just be more useful in day-to-day playing, such as doing FoV pages and general running around.

Just so we're clear, Reckoning is NOT going to be my full-time main scythe. Just something for fun when top-gear doesn't matter as much. Heck, I might make both scythes.

I'm not DRK but I'm sure a 2300 SH is from Double Attack proc.

Guillotine is a 4hit and thus will and should do more DMG unless it has serious STR mod like Y/G/K, which I don't think it does.

SH is for high end mobs, where it would always shine over Guillotine.


I could be wrong as I'm no DRK. :)

Can double-attack proc on single-hit WS's? Not being sarcastic, I honestly don't know.

2300 is definitely a Double attack. I don't spec for Spiral hell, but I still think "Average" of up to 800 might be giving it a little too much credit, but it has massive Modifies (One of the few that add up to 100% (INT/STR50% Each) so maybe (Alky would add more than Abyss gauntlets though)

And you can only own one Reckoning Scythe, it is flagged Rare+Exclusive. Same as the OAT's and the High Damage ones.

Yea very much so, but the problem with that is the nature of single hit WS having massive ACC/ATK buffs is that you're going to be WS in a lot of STR gear and thus having very little accuracy for the DA to proc, as DA on a WS isn't considered part of the WS itself but an melee attack round, which ofc gets less and less chance the higher the mobs evasion is.

Ah, totally missed the rare/ex tag. Hmm, gotta do some more thinking, then. I used Abyss Gauntlets just for sheer availability, as in, I have them and I don't have Alky lol. I just tossed them into the macro since I was already carrying them, didn't seek them out for a specific build.

Thank you guys also for clearing up the DA proc on WS thing, that's one of things I've never been sure of but kept forgetting to ask.

This isn't entirely true. You can get a 5-hit without a goading belt, but it requires either Aurum body or Askar (+1 more stp somewhere).

The biggest advantage of getting the Store TP scythe, is being able to 5-hit without having to use Carbonara. But if you don't have the other pieces to get a 5-hit I wouldn't bother with this scythe.

Some numbers:
Need 39 Stp for a "true" 5-hit build (from 0 TP)
/Sam is 15
Scythe 7
Aurum Body 7
Rajas Ring 5
Rose Strap 4
Brutal Earring 1

You can get away with 37 Stp but you have to land 3/4 hits on guillo to get to 100TP, so you can replace Aurum with Askar and it'll still work. And this is where Goading belt comes in. You can lose the body piece all together and use Goading to keep a 5-hit, so you can wear 5/5 Perle, or E.body, or Haub+1, for more Acc.

I think I am going to go with the Store TP option. At some point I'd like to build for Spiral Hell, but that's going to take some serious work to make consistently viable. A Store TP build seems more "realistic", and easier to attain, than Spiral Hell's "let's stack on some STR/INT and see what happens" route.

Also, worth noting that unlike Spinning Slash and Groundstrike, Spiral Hell does not even receive a Cratio bonus on WS. (attack bonus on the WS, as some call it for simplicity's sake)

As for which weapon to get between those two... I would advice you to get the StoreTP Scythe.

99.9% of the time building TP to 300% for Spiral Hell is just going to hurt your overall DPS. You should be spamming guillotine every time you hit 100% TP.

I highly recommend the new Store TP scythe, even if you cant get goading belt, Aurum Body is another nice option to use. With Pizza ACC shouldnt be an issue with Aurum at all, and it has nice DEX to go with it unlike Askar.

Spiral Hell is nice /thf yea but its just spike damage, you will dish out way more overall damage /sam than /thf could even dream possible.

Ouch, one more strike against using SH. Sometimes I wonder what SE was thinking with these WS's; why did I have to do a weapon trial to unlock something worse than I already have? Blah.


I definitely agree. I keep using SH and crossing my fingers, and ultimately getting disappointed. Especially now with Sekkanoki as /sam, I have the potential to use two Guillotines back to back(or something else and SC) , so I'm seeing less and less use for /thf anymore.

You sacrifice too much to make the 5 hit worthwhile in those cases. Especially on Coraza, much less so on Aurum.

That was my concern too, but I'm just going by theory and not actual practice. I spent far too long just grinding xp, and I'm only recently really getting into the numbers and "meat" of the game.

I'm well on my way to getting a Rajas Ring and Rose Strap, and I'm not against eating Carbonara for the missing Store TP in the meantime. I've got some cheap means of a couple of Store TP as is (Ecphoria's Ring, Chiv. Chain, trying to get an Attila's Earring) just to fill gaps.

I won't be too heartbroken if I come up 2 or 3 Stp short of 39, as long as I can still hit consistently, the TP will get there on it's own. I realize on paper it requires X Stp to get a "True 5-hit", but in practice I'm never without some TP already built up after dropping a mob. I never end a fight completely at 0 tp, so maybe I'm missing something? Or is a "True 5-hit" just more of a concept? Not to mention the little bits of TP that build up from spells I'm casting via Occult Occumen(and I cast quite a bit if my mp is high) and if the mob is hitting me at all(which it shouldn't, more for soloing)?

With this setup

It's still around 460 Acc with capped scythe merits and Hasso, so all you're really giving up is 2% DA(from not using pole grip), and 15ACC, 2STR/DEX from not using E.Body(or 12ACC, and gaining 2STR/DEX/ATT if using Haub+1).

I can't think of anything you would need over 450 Acc on anyways(as of right now), if anyone has an example I'd love to know what it is.

If it X-hits you then Rose Strap Destroys Polegrip, so that isnt even an issue.

Well it means this:

Which I had explained previously, here: http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/11642/swordstrap-or-polegrip-for-gs#668727

Now when people say, for example: "true 6hit" ... it still means that it takes you 6hits to get from 0% TP to 100% TP. Also, with the TP returns on WS, it will take you 5 hits to get back to 100% TP. And even though you will mostly be taking only 5hits to get to 100% TP (as long as you don't miss your WS), people do not call it a 5hit, in this case, because the weapon skill is actually counted as a "hit" ... In other words, it takes you either 6 normal hits from 0%TP to 100% TP, or it takes you a WS + 5 normal hits to get back to 100% TP, thus this is a "True 6hit build."

I can see why some people might get confused by the real meaning of a "True X-hit build" (unless you are one who already knows the concept), which is why I often refer to these builds as "6hit/5hit rebuilds" ...just to make it clearer.

Let's go back on topic to the "True 5 hit build."

Same deal here, "true 5hit build" is just a "5hit/4hit rebuild" .... or a build that requires 5 hits to get to 100%TP from 0%TP, and after weapon skill it requires 4 normal hits to get back to 100% TP, but it's really still 5 hits due to the WS counting as a hit.

Let's also note that a WS hit is also affected by StoreTP. Furthermore, not only the first hit, but also the extra hits of a multi-hit WS are affected by StoreTP(after the first WS hit, the following WS hits will give 1 TP each, though they're also modified by StoreTP)... which brings us to an X-hit build that may often work as well as a "true X-hit build" but it is not a true X-hit build.

Example:

We know that you need at least 23STP for TP and 22STP for WS, for a "true 6hit" with a 501 delay weapon. Nevertheless, you could still have as little as 21STP for TP and WS as long as you land at least 3 hits on Guillotine; however, this would not be a "true 6hit build" because it would take you 7hits to get to 100%TP from 0% TP, but after a WS it will take you 5hits to get back to 100%TP, due to the TP returns on the extra hits of your multi-hit WS. In other words, you would have a "7hit/5hit rebuild" ...though if you're /sam, you usually won't be starting from 0%TP due to meditate etc.

For a "true 5hit build" with a 528 delay weapon ... you need 39StoreTP for TP and WS. Nevertheless, you can have 37StoreTP for TP and WS (/sam, rajas, brutal, rose strap, Goading belt, and +7STP from the Reckoning scythe), and it will take you 6hits to get to 100%TP from 0%TP, but it will take you 4 hits to get back to 100% TP after a WS, as long as you land at least 3hits on Guillitone. In other words, a "6hit/4hit rebuild" ... as opposed to a "true 5hit build" which would be a "5hit/4hit rebuild."