Did My Eyes Decieve Me?

Language: JP EN DE FR
New Items
2023-11-19
users online
Forum » FFXI » Jobs » Dark Knight » Did my eyes decieve me?
Did my eyes decieve me?
 Diabolos.Sovereign
Offline
Server: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
user: Galactus
Posts: 550
By Diabolos.Sovereign 2010-06-12 17:30:10
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Ifrit.Eikechi said:
really? cuz i thought drk zerg (k club anyways) was all about souleater gear and hp gear, because lets face it...those non-souleater hits are doing ***dmg...

That's the nature of the weapon, being such a low base damage (base 11) compared to something like a Ridill (base 40).

Even if you were using the K.club, the difference in per-hit damage still adds up over time. Undisputed fact.

Lets take for example a DRK/NIN and a DRK/WAR with the same gear, same buffs, and the same 30 seconds of engaged zerging. The /NIN may do like 25 per hit, while the /WAR (with berzerk and warcry active, as well as attack bonus job trait) may be doing 35 per hit. Assume both K.clubs hit 100 times in that 30 seconds of zerging, and you're looking at a 1000 damage difference between the /NIN and the /WAR. That's not exactly chump change during a zerg.

Using a weapon like a Ridill (a much more commonly used zerg weapon than a K.club) the initial damage difference would be even more noticeable, since you have a higher base damage on the weapon itself.
 Fenrir.Gradd
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Fenrir.Gradd 2010-06-12 17:33:58
Link | Quote | Reply
 
In most Zerg situations your not going to be surrounded by X-ammount of mobs for Drain IIGa to even be used dont know why people are even discussing it.
 Ifrit.Eikechi
Offline
Server: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
user: Eike
Posts: 5779
By Ifrit.Eikechi 2010-06-12 17:57:23
Link | Quote | Reply
 
what is this "over time" you speak of? correct me if i'm wrong as i don't have 75 drk to actually do this...but don't drks pretty much die immediately after blood weapon wears off? so basically you should only be focusing on that time in which blood weapon is active ya?

edit: so "over time" is what... 30s? is your example even remotely close to possible? that many swings in just 30s? idk about that myself, but again i'm not a 75 drk with a k club
 Ramuh.Dasva
Offline
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-06-12 18:09:41
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Most isn't always
 Quetzalcoatl.Giazz
Offline
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: Gias
Posts: 1308
By Quetzalcoatl.Giazz 2010-06-12 18:14:30
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Ifrit.Eikechi said:
what is this "over time" you speak of? correct me if i'm wrong as i don't have 75 drk to actually do this...but don't drks pretty much die immediately after blood weapon wears off? so basically you should only be focusing on that time in which blood weapon is active ya?

No. That is depending on the situation and specially your support, such as outside healers, or healers in your PT cure bombing you for a longer zerg etc.

Also, it is impossible to die from Souleater use alone. Souleater will NOT take away all your HP, Fact.

You will not go lower than 1% HP from Souleater use alone, thus you cannot die from it. Souleater only takes 10% HP from you each time you hit a mob and adds that 10%HP to your melee swing dmg.

What actually kills you while using Souleater is the mob turning on you from the hate that you generate, and the mob's hits is what can kill a DRK,not Souleater alone...

If you got some healers with you, chances are you will still be alive after blood weapon wears off...
 Diabolos.Ghlin
Offline
Server: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
user: Ghlin
Posts: 461
By Diabolos.Ghlin 2010-06-12 18:23:31
Link | Quote | Reply
 
you can use KC w/o bloodweapon and just souleater if you have enough support. in fact, it's ideal at times.
 Quetzalcoatl.Giazz
Offline
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: Gias
Posts: 1308
By Quetzalcoatl.Giazz 2010-06-12 18:29:06
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Also, Souleater lasts 1 minute, so technically...if the mob isn't dead before that, you could zerg for 1 minute...provided that you have enough support/healers etc.

Diabolos.Ghlin said:
you can use KC w/o bloodweapon and just souleater if you have enough support. in fact, it's ideal at times.

Also this. Bloodweapon 2hr is not really necessary either, IF you have enough support yeah.
 Diabolos.Sovereign
Offline
Server: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
user: Galactus
Posts: 550
By Diabolos.Sovereign 2010-06-12 19:00:25
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Ifrit.Eikechi said:
what is this "over time" you speak of? correct me if i'm wrong as i don't have 75 drk to actually do this...but don't drks pretty much die immediately after blood weapon wears off? so basically you should only be focusing on that time in which blood weapon is active ya?

Blood Weapon lasts for 30 seconds. Souleater for 60 seconds. This is the duration you have to deal damage, hence "over time"


 Quetzalcoatl.Volkom
Offline
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: volkom
Posts: 1294
By Quetzalcoatl.Volkom 2010-06-12 23:39:10
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Diabolos.Sovereign said:
Ifrit.Eikechi said:
what is this "over time" you speak of? correct me if i'm wrong as i don't have 75 drk to actually do this...but don't drks pretty much die immediately after blood weapon wears off? so basically you should only be focusing on that time in which blood weapon is active ya?
Blood Weapon lasts for 30 seconds. Souleater for 60 seconds. This is the duration you have to deal damage, hence "over time"
but isn't zerging with souleater and bloodweaon on more ideal cuz the bloodweapon dmg gets boosted from souleater no?
like with souleater on lets say you smack the mob for 200, then bloodweapon procs and drains for 200... but if you did bloodweapon seperate it just goes off normal dmg of weapon/skill right?
 Cerberus.Deadplaything
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 454
By Cerberus.Deadplaything 2010-06-13 00:14:58
Link | Quote | Reply
 
we yet to think cure V aoe and burst 2 aoe even refresh aoe haste aoe um lets see not that a paladin would sub sch but imagine flash aoe and the hate you would get from an aoe cure 4 like i said not surethe situation you would use it in.
 Ifrit.Eikechi
Offline
Server: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
user: Eike
Posts: 5779
By Ifrit.Eikechi 2010-06-13 00:30:24
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Cerberus.Deadplaything said:
we yet to think cure V aoe and burst 2 aoe even refresh aoe haste aoe um lets see not that a paladin would sub sch but imagine flash aoe and the hate you would get from an aoe cure 4 like i said not surethe situation you would use it in.

there are so many things wrong with that idk where to begin..... lol.... you CAN'T aoe any divine magic, or elemental magic... and refresh MIGHT be an exception to accession (some spells won't aoe with the stratagem even though they fall under the correct category of magic IE: raise cannot be raise-ga even though its healing magic).
 Ramuh.Dasva
Offline
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-06-13 02:09:30
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Well so far SE has pretty much just said we will AOE whatever the *** we want with sch lol.

Really though I can't see them not doing refresh or haste. I mean it's not really all that awesome. Might save a little mp if you hit at least 3 targets even then you would've saved more by using that strat to parsimony a cure IV. So really you need to hit 4 targets and becareful to not be to close to them so you don't overwrite your own composured refresh to make it worthwhile. Unless you need to refresh those targets NOW ie something broke your cycle
 Quetzalcoatl.Giazz
Offline
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: Gias
Posts: 1308
By Quetzalcoatl.Giazz 2010-06-13 02:10:08
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Quetzalcoatl.Volkom said:
but isn't zerging with souleater and bloodweaon on more ideal cuz the bloodweapon dmg gets boosted from souleater no?
like with souleater on lets say you smack the mob for 200, then bloodweapon procs and drains for 200... but if you did bloodweapon seperate it just goes off normal dmg of weapon/skill right?

What is "ideal" depends on the situation. Is your 2hr timer up? Did you just use your 2hr for a 30sec zerg but the mob in question is still alive somehow and since souleater is 1 minute duration, next question would be: do you have enough support/healers to keep going without bloodweapon 2hr? etc. etc.

What do you mean by "bloodweapon dmg gets boosted" ?

Bloodweapon does not damage the mob unfortunately, it only heals you for the amount of damage that your melee swing did to the mob. (and this "healing", aka your 2hr ability, lasts for 30 seconds.)

In your example, you say: you smack the mob for 200, then bloodweapon procs and drains for 200, but that is technically incorrect.

What really happens is: you smack the mob for 200, then Bloodweapon "heals" you for 200. You only hurt the mob for 200 dmg in that case.

DRK's bloodweapon 2hr can be use as a healing tool: every hit you do to the mob heals you for that amount. And it can be used to let you use Souleater more effectively, that is, it will allow you to use Souleater without you losing the 10% HP you lose each time you normally use Souleater.

Then of course, combine this with a multi-hit weapon such as: Kraken club or M.Kris, plus a good "zerg set" (haste and +HP gear)and some outside support: marches, haste, healing etc. ...and you got yourself a drk zerg.

Furthermore, bloodweapon, if used with souleater will also..in a way, boost your souleater damage because if you were to perform souleater without bloodweapon (and with no healers curing you for this example) then each hit you do, you will have 10% less HP than your previous hit, and we know that souleater's damage gets boosted the more HP you currently have, and Bloodweapon will keep you at max HP because it will heal you each time. Now on a real situation, you would normally still need healers if the mob is on you.

Edit:

And to get on topic, I still think that that was just Manifestation + stun, and not an actual "Stunga" spell...
 Ifrit.Eikechi
Offline
Server: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
user: Eike
Posts: 5779
By Ifrit.Eikechi 2010-06-13 02:12:00
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Well so far SE has pretty much just said we will AOE whatever the *** we want with sch lol.

Really though I can't see them not doing refresh or haste. I mean it's not really all that awesome. Might save a little mp if you hit at least 3 targets even then you would've saved more by using that strat to parsimony a cure IV. So really you need to hit 4 targets and becareful to not be to close to them so you don't overwrite your own composured refresh to make it worthwhile. Unless you need to refresh those targets NOW ie something broke your cycle


ya but if you composure and then AOE that buff but target yourself, wouldn't the duration bonus effect others? we don't know yet...i would think it does to encourage rdm/sch to heal in parties/event situations
 Ramuh.Dasva
Offline
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-06-13 02:15:53
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Somehow I kinda doubt SE would allow rdm to do that with composure. It would well vastly increase rdms effectiveness.

At that point it might be a half way decent idea to full time composure and keep your tanks buffed with things they might not normally get like phalanx (better than phalanx II) and aquaveil along with normal buffs.

Not to mention how rediculous your efficiency would get. If it does happen I can see them getting rid of it
 Ifrit.Eikechi
Offline
Server: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
user: Eike
Posts: 5779
By Ifrit.Eikechi 2010-06-13 02:16:56
Link | Quote | Reply
 
oh i didn't say it was likely....just theoretically possible lol
 Ramuh.Dasva
Offline
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-06-13 02:19:14
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Oh yeah almost forgot. Composure regen II is really rediculous. Imagine giving AOE healing of 720 per target hit for only 66 mp lol.
 Leviathan.Dubont
Offline
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: Dubont
Posts: 1686
By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-13 02:20:11
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Somehow I kinda doubt SE would allow rdm to do that with composure. It would well vastly increase rdms effectiveness.

At that point it might be a half way decent idea to full time composure and keep your tanks buffed with things they might not normally get like phalanx (better than phalanx II) and aquaveil along with normal buffs.

Not to mention how rediculous your efficiency would get. If it does happen I can see them getting rid of it
they didn't get rid of shadows with nin sub for other jobs being able to tank...there also numerous other ja/spells that allow different jobs to become more useful (rdm/drk...just saying I don't think they would do away with it...probably tweak it like the sch job abilities...but def not banish it.
 Odin.Blazza
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: Blazza
Posts: 6473
By Odin.Blazza 2010-06-13 02:26:26
Link | Quote | Reply
 
We already know that composure only works on yourself with your own buffs, even if you are a rdm with composure up, and ANOTHER rdm, also with composure up casts refresh on you, you won't get the additional duration. If aoe refresh is possible (and I think it will be personally), then casting it with composure on will give the whole party 2:30 of refresh, and 7:30 of refresh yourself, so if you're using aoe refresh on a whole party, you can do it from a distance twice in a row, then run in and cast it on yourself the third time.

And don't forget, we're yet to see exactly what rdm will get to keep them as a strong job in comparison to the other jobs once they get convert, and later refresh.
 Ramuh.Dasva
Offline
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-06-13 02:26:44
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Leviathan.Dubont said:
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Somehow I kinda doubt SE would allow rdm to do that with composure. It would well vastly increase rdms effectiveness. At that point it might be a half way decent idea to full time composure and keep your tanks buffed with things they might not normally get like phalanx (better than phalanx II) and aquaveil along with normal buffs. Not to mention how rediculous your efficiency would get. If it does happen I can see them getting rid of it
they didn't get rid of shadows with nin sub for other jobs being able to tank...there also numerous other ja/spells that allow different jobs to become more useful (rdm/drk...just saying I don't think they would do away with it...probably tweak it like the sch job abilities...but def not banish it.
Well this is a bit different than just letting someone use spells/jas from the subjob.


This is letting a subjobs ja completely get around a very major restriction of another ja lol
 Odin.Blazza
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: Blazza
Posts: 6473
By Odin.Blazza 2010-06-13 02:29:03
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Actually, doesn't composure already work with /whm bar spells? /barfira with composure up and the rest of the parties barfire will wear off three times faster than your own. It's incredibly rare that I have use of barspell, so I'm not 100% sure.
Log in to post.