SE Making Crafted Items Wear Down?

A problem that I see as a crafter is the fact that at some point in theory since crafted items do not wear down like in most games eventually ther will eb the same amount of an item as ther are chars that will be using it. At that point then the only option will be to npc items and sell only hq's. It is already thta way on many low synths such as capes ect. There are only so many people to buy and are too many items in circulation. Kind of like real life if yuor car nevr wore down and was the same as when you bought it 50 years ago youd never need to buy a new one thuse ther would be no car comapnies and i am sure you see the ripple caused by this. Feel free to flame me all yuo would like on this post but as a way to change this inevitable outcome SE need to amke craftable armor wear down and need to be either repaired somehow by a crafter of appropriate skill for a small amount of gil and or component of the actual craft. Thus keeping the craft market/ farmers market in constant movement. When every player ha sa red cape who will buy them and who will need the materials farmed to start with to make an item thta noone needs. Hvae fun with this one I'm sure it will stir up some controversy.

In a way I sort of agree.. I am a crafter too you know, BUT I would be pissed if my bow broke while firing it XD. But I agree to an extent on there needing to be a way to clean sweep items in mass. Wearing them down to nothing may not be a popular idea. But some how ridding the game of over crafted items would help some I admit but there really is nothing you can do :/ short of breaking into the mog house hitting the moogle on the head and running off in the night with the Scorpion harness's of around 6 thousand ppl XD (SH in example of over crafted item)

I suppose it relies on things like ppl accidentally selling/dropping an item, etc. From what i've seen, especially after the bonanza, dusk gloves did drop sharply in price, but have remained relatively stable since then. I suppose these are times i'm happy I chose cooking, eating food ftw :) Don't forget tho, crafters also have consumables to make money off of, and thats pretty much a very stable income, if not gigantic chunks of HQ vs NQ losses

I would like to see something done about this just because I have been really discouraged to continue leveling crafts that I originally wanted to work on. I mean, if everyone just starts sticking to the "consumable" crafts like cooking and alchemy, the market is going to flood in those categories, and there still will be less opportunity to make a nice profit (as if this hasn't already happened).

i started with clothcraft... i can say that on odin nearly 100% percent of the nq items from clothcraft sell lower then materials cost.
that is a shame and SE just did not thought until the end.

the only crafting that from the beginning until now can still make profit with nq is alchemie cooking and woodworking. these crafts create consumable items.

those items disappear from the market. the clothes don´t.

my suggestion now is, that there has to be a limited number of ah-resell-possibillity.

example, a robe can only be selled 2 times on ah or bazar, and then it has to be desynthed or npc´ed.

i don´t see any bad thing on this idea.

Personally, i always npc the nq elemental staves instead of putting them on ah. Reason for this is because on my server there is always at least 3-4 of each staff, the market is already flooded with them and i only make 1.5k loss per staff it just isnt worth the time taken to sell them or increase the chances of undercutting on them.

Not sure id like the idea of paying 100k for a piece of equipement and having to pay for a repair/drop it a month or so later, especially a problem and off putting for newer players as 20k+ is a lot to them. I think the way forward is to increase the number of items in game, by adding new craftable/obtainable items at lower levels. More options on gear you can wear should help stop the market becomming more flooded with existing items.

If people are limited to how many times they can sell and item ... what if they buy a SH, sell it to buy gear for another job, buy it back when needed and so on in a cycle? i wouldnt want to desynth or npc a SH cus i cant resell it anymore lol

Guys, SE doesn't give a ***about us crafters.. They don't, crafting is a way for SE to remove gil from the economy at our wallet's expense. All I can say, and I'm not being rude is "suck it up" I'm sure thats what Sage and his homies say as they are getting there cucumber face mask's and waiting 10 mins for food..

I agree they need to revive crafting in a drastic way, I'm on your side.. But Sage aint...

Personally, I've always liked the MMO design pattern where all items wear down with time, and need to be repaired by player crafters.

If you design the interface with the proper security, you can make it so that crafters can repair items without holding them (so they can't run off with them). With the proper design you can also make it very easy for players to find the appropriate crafter to repair something. If the designers play their cards right, they can make it so that it's very easy and not a continual pain in the ***.

You always provide an NPC option to repair, but typically you make it slightly higher priced than you could get by finding a player crafter.

Typically this makes learning a craft continually valuable and profitable throughout the game's life, and stimulates a successful player economy. It also encourages co-dependence because no single character can level 100 in every craft simultaneously, but all their various pieces of gear may require a cross-section of skill types. It also introduces an added bit of interesting complexity to the perceived value of certain high-end items.

Those things are always good to maintain a vibrant player economy and community long-term.

A lot of items are taken out of circulation by being traded in for guild points. I've always assumed this was SE's way of keeping the market from flooding.

The problem with this is they dont do it with ENOUGH of the heavily spammed items, imo if they made it so you can trade any item that your craft makes into the guild any RL day, but put a cap on points per day it would drastically affect AH prices of the heavily spammed, very cheap NQ items, this might be a good start at least to rectifying the damage done by SE's lack of foresight or concern for the ingame economy

As a crafter, the idea of an item tha breaks down (much like items in Diablo II) would be great. We could make the high end items for ever and never really worry about flooding the markets...

But for the person that does not craft and has to farm for hours/days to afford the high priced item, this would be very unfair. Why buy something that is going to break down and have to be bought again...

So maybe a solution could be this. Over time your item will start to lose some stats, and if a person wanted there item to be whole again, they could find a crafter with the correct skills to reapair there item through some sort of safe means...

And as for guild point items taking things out of circulation, most of the items that are in question (SH for one), are never a guild point item anyways, so it does not affect them at all. Most all guild point items usually sell decent and are never in stock when you need them. Even if items like SH was a GP item, who would ever trade one in for ~6k points anyways...

just my thoughts... :)

In my opinion, the problem with this game is that EVERYTHING is centered around money. I play WoW and FFXI and the comparison in economy is far off. NPC values are drastically better and drops aren't easy but they are abundant. Crafts are still very important but the flooding of certain items isn't as bad as FFxi. My point is crafting should be fun and not "Omg how can i *** someone else over to get richer than everyone else??" It's like coming from real life to game economy and you ask yourself why do we have to come out of a crappy economy just to go into another one because of capitalism? If anythign is taken from my post, this game relys too much on the AH and too much on the gil. And i agree with Trollox, the developers could give a damn about this game. From one of Jaerik's post he even included code on how certain things could work properly and why certain things aren't even in the game and why? (i.e. why does the auction house only have 7 slots, why are drop rates horrible, why are NM 24-72 hrs when the opening msg says"we don;t want you to miss out on family...etc.) It's just little things liek this that make you really think about the development team and wonder why and what you are paying for every month. If you do your own homework you can see where i'm going with this.

Its not even about omg im gonna *** people for money, if you look at any HQ item and look at its average HQ rate via which tier it's in then do a small amount of math that a fourth grader could handle, crafters hardly profit in many cases, unless by luck we exceed the average. Except for on a tier 0 or some higher level tier 1 synths, but hell yah an item that 1/100x - 1/never synths turns HQ result and is a steady 50k loss PER synth, im gonna tax that, who wouldnt?

Youre an idiot if you think crafting is glamorous and leads to wealth in every case, i can tell you many times ive lost my *** off to the point of completely broke before an HQ finally popped and i could scrape a few mils back up.

Geez...no need to be nasty about it. I wasn't even talking about half the stuff you were saying anyway. And why is crafting not glamorous? Is it not nice to make someone happy if they shout for help on a synth or help an ls member craft somethign they need for dynamis for example? Has it not lead many to be rich? (the JP population, for example, when NA and EU were leveling? They exploited the market completely and had the prices inflated etc. The gilsellers DO NOT and DID NOT control the market; players do. They only follow suite. AND if you do not know this; THEN YOU'RE AN IDIOT.) All I'm saying is that crafters are the life blood of the game and WE make items, and consumables for the players to use. Sometimes, players can ONLY get certain items from crafting. I am also a heavy crafter and also know too well that it's disappointing to level synths to a high level and all that hardwork is for nothing because all of the items sell for little to nothing. Too many of the WRONG people control the market and drive the prices down to non-sensical amounts (like you stated where the mats cost 2x to 3 x the HQ.) If you read what I was saying, you would understand that crafters are gettign shafted and everythign in the game is revolving around money. EVERYTHING. I would think that the developers would understand that people see that they were lazy in doing a lot of things especially a player controlled economy and shitty npc sell back as well as other things. Even knowing the economy is this bad in you would think the developers would at least give crafters a chance to make more money back instead of having to rely on the AH alone (NPC sellback.)The NPC sellback is horrible. I think it's like 1/6 or 1/8 of the npc selling price. Maybe give higher level crafters higher returns when selling to NPC's?) Bazaars don't necessarily always work either. I mean the "average player" would assume to only look in bazaars outside in Batalia downs for sky trigs, dynamis coins and etc.)So you can't even rely on that area for good, continuous money. But my thoughts were jumbled up when i wrote my first post so let me put it this way:
The whole system of money and economy in this game needs to be revamped. The economy is controlled by the wrong people (and many people follow because they don't have a choice.) In turn, this damages the effort we as crafters worked for and poured our money into for simple reasons like HQ rates being diminished and items are way more than the HQ item itself. For example, Adaman hauberk on my server I've seen in bazaar's for 100k and the hauberk itself is 169k. But what's worse is the haubergeon, used to make hauberk, is only 210k? Yeah, I can agree that the math is completely off. So in closing, be careful and read the whole post next time, if you can please, before making a semi-nasty post and get the full facts of what I was saying next time. Thanks

I'm amazed that nobody has mentioned the influx of players as a reason why ffxi's system of no-wear can actually work.

In FFXI, because each physical player can play many different jobs, there's always a potential demand for much more equipment. Of course, some equipment is multiple job, but that's not always enough. So unlike in many mmorpg's, you don't need to have an influx of new people start playing, existing players can always start a "new" character (job) that requires them to start all over again equipment wise.

I personally always found it a hassle in Diablo II to have to keep fixing my gear. And really, we do have some stuff like that now already, all of the enchanted armor items. As a general rule, people (at least the ones I've played with) tend to avoid those types of items if at all possible.

I feel like there's enough ways to take money out of the environment that adding synth/repair costs isn't required. As a heavy crafter myself, although I would certainly like the money from another income source, I think that would push a lot more people into crafting and drive other crafting-related profits down.

Yeah, because no new players ever start playing FFXI. Nobody quits or gets banned and starts over. And people definitely never make multiple characters or decide to level new jobs.

I always sell items after I'm done with it for a certain job, unless a second job is going to need it soon after, at which point, when those jobs are done I sell it. If I need it again for a new job down the line, I buy a new one. Most people I know do this, so even if they were no new players (of which there are plenty), we could probably sell this stuff to each other back and forth endlessly, and since people are always undercutting to make quick sells, even new crafters could sell their gear if they are willing to let it go for a little bit less, which many are. I don't see a problem here, the game has been around for years already...plenty of time for crafters to create enough gear for everyone, should that be possible. I guess my point is that if what you feared was going to happen, it would have happened already.

Yah you're right, i should have read beyond the first 2 lines of your wall of text. not really, i never do because the first 2 lines of a massive wall typically state the only relevant things in that wall, anything beyond that is usually pointless rambling in a desperate attempt to try to justify the original statements.

Wow. How old are you like 12? Well don't you feel like your E-peen and E-pube skill rising. It's people like you that make Jps and NA leave the game. Well for ignorant people like yourself I'll put it as simple as possible so it's not too hard for you: the game sucks primarily because of the current money system and should be left alone to be the horrible system it already is instead of making it worse.

hehe <.<

I am woundering why do we all blame SE for this problem.We i mean the one's who have played this game. Took a good thing and destroyed it.I am talking about. In the past when people bought gil and lvl a craft wit it.Se desighn the game if played rite.There was no way a person could have 1 or maybe even 3 craft 103+ and a lvl 75 job to. I know this because i lvl my craft from 1-100 the rite way took me a yr plus and only had main job of 50 because the time it took to get it to 100.Then befor I knew it 100 every where. Friends I play the game wit no names. They went from 0 craft to 90 in a month or less.So we should blame no one but are self the one who cheated to get ahead.Se did what they could wit the money problem there is nothing they can do about the people who should not be 100 plus.Just the way it is and we have to deal wit it. But dont blame the people who made the game.Now we are all crying for them to fix the problem that we caused.When i say we u know what i mean more than 80 percent of people wit high lvl crafting should not even have it.

An interesting feature that this would allow would for HQ items to wear down slower and go to NQ first, and to allow a chance for a "worn down" item to be resynthed to an HQ item. Would be cool to alter the HQ and NQ rates a little with that.

You make very little sense my friend when you also said this:

"The whole system of money and economy in this game needs to be revamped."

You contradict yourself in posts, cannot seem to write a sentence with proper structure. Much less can you create a paragraph in a readable format, and yet I am the ignorant one?

Ignorant:
1. Lacking education or knowledge.
2. Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake.
3. Unaware or uninformed

So it seems this word which you loosely use means a person of little education. I think perhaps you should observe your English and communication skills, and decide if maybe you are ignorant.

Your English teacher must be proud.

Honestly, why my post even sparked some kind of moronic debate with a half-wit I will never know. Did i say something to specifically offend you Mr. English major?

Oh, yes i guess i did with my bashing of Wall-O-Text riddled with broken, unconnected thoughts style of writing.

Do you realize that your second to last post nearly top to bottom filled my screen with a block of text, and also that my (p.c. monitor) is a 40 inch wide screen lcd? Thats a massive *** block of ***.

Nobody is going to seriously want to read a block of text like that it's painful on the eyes.

At the least break it up a little bit so other people don't have to suffer even more reading your ***.

Sorry, lern2type.

Unfortually, so many people fall under this catagory.

The information is out there, all one needs to do is to look for it instead of complaining, before you start making complaints about it.

Even if you try to use the "too lazy to look it up" defense, at least admit that you are "too lazy to look it up" beforehand. (I'm too lazy to use spellcheck)

The economy sucks because we don't have a central system of control (AH should not be assumed to be the central system of control, all it trys to do is be a free market which all economists wish for but know that it would be extreemly difficult for it to work, and that minimal control is needed to keep everything in balance, but having a control system that is too strict will cause the opposite effect of what is desired (basic Economy 101)).

Yes, that was all supposed to be one sentence.

No, I won't break it up to multiple sentences.

No, I still won't use spellcheck.

Yes, I will have a nice day, hope you do too.

I don't get where this is wrong? I read and reread it over and over again? You really must be 12 because I don't think you've passed the 5th grade yet.
Right now you're not that far off.
not your friend skippy. you blew that chance out your *** when you were rude in posting your comment. If it was such a bother skip reading my post and go about your way. It's obvious you were looking for a fight.
Where's the contradiction? Maybe I am just that stupid and don't see it. so enlighten me? Let me break it down for you on how i understand it.
Sentence: "The whole system of money and economy in this game needs to be revamped"
1."The whole system of money and economy": ok we understand that i'm talking about the current FFXI system of money.
2.The definition of economy: (here, i did a little work for you) http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/economy. There is no where in the definition that money is synonymous with economy. It is only a factor of money. don't believe me? check this out: http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/economy
3."in this game": i'm hoping you don't need an explanation for this because i won't.
4. "needs to be revamped": this bascially means that whatever it is being said in the sentence needs to be redone, remade, or revised. (you can pick whichever tickles your pickle--which means whatever turns you on.)
I refuse to go into grammar because (1.) i'm very articulate in real life and in my writing and far past general and advanced grammar (2.) i frankly don't give a f***. i'm on my r and r time and i have to be grammatically correct at my job, and in my college classrooms. so you can take your grammar lesson that you just learned and shove it.
already discussed.
define hypocrite. you'll see what i'm thinking right now.
irrelevant - define that as well.

now we bring the words together: hypocrite and contradiction. you're a hypocrite for trying to criticize and then make yourself seem like you are the victim here? Contradiction for calling me the "idiot student" that needs to go back to school then calling me the teacher? hmmmmm.
secondly let me post what was so offensive disregarding the rude comments already in the above sentence.
this was uncalled for from the very beginning and is what sparked our "little debate."
Yes i did admit that my "thoughts were unconnected" and i just wrote what i thought as i went along. thought that was what a blog/forum was for? If you have a 40 inch screen there's no way that it could fill it all up unless your bifocals (or trifocals) are too thick and who the hell has a 40 inch screen for a computer? that's a little extreme.
anyway i'm done posting to you. back on topic and i'm sorry to others for this long post but people think they can just be disrespectful to anyone and get away with it.

i agree with you to an extent korpg but then thats the same reason why the AH is out of hand. and we have to be honest with ourselves and admit that the AH IS the life blood of the game. you cannot do anythign else without the AH currently in my opinion and experience. the way everything is in FFXI is already too strict anyway and it doesn't necessarily have to be strict. again loose thought but idgaf.

1) Ok, while reading this post I do see valid points for either side, but I myself have not had a problem with the AH or costs while crafting. This is mainly because I will farm (or fish in my case) and craft to minimize costs. As far as repairing armor, I don't see a way yet to make it "fair" for all players (crafters/non-crafters)

2) Something I have noticed on this post is that insulting others ideas and opinions really gets you nowhere but off-topic. If you have a valid fact/opinion then you can voice it, but leave the bickering at the door.

3) A common point brought up in most crafting forums is the "FFXI Economy" Now I'm not a financial expert by any means, but by my logic, we (the players) have caused the problem with the economy. SquareEnix has implemented a great game in my opinion but there are too many "get rich quick" players (and I know RMT's in real life) that destroy the economy and move to another game (many RMT's tend to have multiple games for income purposes.) We cannot expect SE to fix this problem fully because they didn't cause it in the first place. I personally am a fair player, I will farm/fish (which by some standards looks like RMT because I don't readily respond) but I don't mind the grind of it all.

4) I have noticed also that people use the "don't let it affect your personal life" quote from the login screen against SE. I don't have time to play 8-10 hours like I used to, my job/relationship takes up 90% of my time. I log in to FFXI for maybe 2-3 hours/day and have a (surprise) good time playing a game I enjoy.

5) My final point being that if the player base wanted to get rid of "excess items" or "flooding of the market" then just NPC all your crafts. More often than not the final product will either break even or slight loss/gain if you farm all your materials then NPC them (I have done this numerous times.) This method will cause the AH to fluxuate unsteadily, but for those who stick it out (self-sufficient) will realize that the AH is a mean to sell off items, but overly abused it will just cause more problems than solutions.

If you want to critique me on my spelling, insult me or make me out to be some kind of feeble-minded idiot then feel free to do so, but life is too short to sweat the small stuff so I probably won't read the response. Good Day.

"who the hell has a 40 inch screen for a computer? that's a little extreme."

It's not, considering i hardly use it for PC, mainly for TV/movies/PS3 and i have a room too small to fit both an entertainment center and computer desk.

Logically, i consolidated :) I got a tv big enough to wall mount, mounted that ***hooked it up w/ a denon reciever w/ a nice surround setup and guess what? It works really really nice, with a cordless kb/mouse i can sit on my futon and chill and surf web, play ps3, watch a movie, about anything i care to do while indoors.

I got no complaints about my setup aside from the fact i wish i had gone a step up or more from a 40 inch :(

LCD TV and LCD monitor are pretty much one and the same, so why not go for one that functions well as both?

Most tv's nowadays do have VGA input or you can grab yourself a spiffy little DVI->HDMI cable which can be picked up rather cheap via ebay (electronics stores will price rape you on anything with an hdmi plug on it) and run it at a higher res. unless you live in the dark ages & your idea of a TV is an old-school tube

btw, you started tossing direct insults first, mine was a hypothetical insult.

At any rate i'm done with this, this ***has been derailed badly for *** sake im ranting about my TV now, and you can't even see your own contradictions, carry on. My job here is done.

Random aside, rather than going for one massive 40" screen, I have two 22" LCD panels running in dual monitor mode, side by side. Helps offload things like frame buffering to a parallel mode, so I can run FF/etc on one monitor faster and have IM/browser/etc open on the other without the slowdown of trying to run both on one display.

Our VP at work bought everyone in the studio dual LCD's like that when I started... at first I thought it was a little egregious, and now I can't live without it.

I've only read about half of these. And I know I might be biased because I don't craft. My highest craft is cooking lvl 2. And just thinking about it, having to rely on someone to either repair my gear or make my gear again is very unappealing to me. If I don't use things like food, oils powders (the consumables). My gil is very stagnant. Aside from when I buy new gear for my jobs. I pretty much keep my head above water by selling things I don't need, or if I get lucky with drops and getting to sell things for 5k+. And any idea of me on a semi-regular basis having to spend more gil just to stay competitive with other strong players doesn't sound good to me.