Ambuscade Volume 1-October 2017

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Ambuscade Volume 1-October 2017
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By BlaTheTaru 2017-10-13 01:28:26
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Asura.Shyara said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
We went with

It's not till the second wave spawns that he gets en-death, and if you damage him then it's chance of killing you skyrockets.

actually when we left the adds alone (tank was kiting them) NM still killed our dd;s with endeath when shadows were down for a second shortly after the adds popped. so i think he gets en-death as soon as the adds pop.

Yeah, we were holding the first set of adds and we are eating endeath at the first pops.
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-10-13 02:02:08
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I tried both the strats suggested in this and other threads.
Adds-killing: You stop damaging the megaboss and kill adds as soon as they pop.
Adds-ignoring: You ignore the adds. A tank tanks or kite them as your utsusemi-endowed DDs kill the megaboss.

tl;dr
it sounds to me second is much faster/easier if your DDs can deal with the Endeath. Killing all those adds takes time yo. Even with very average PUG killtime was <8 min with the Adds-ignoring strat, much higher with the Adds-killing one. And you know how it is, the more a fight lasts the more chances something will go wrong.
The second wave is especially quite unforgiving.



Some random comments from me about both methods:
  • The boss seems to get endeath the second adds pop. Proc rate of it goes up with difficulty and goes up the more you damage the boss with adds out.

  • UNCONFIRMED someone claims if adds are tanked VERY far way from the boss AND the BLMs are silenced, they won't use Triple Reversal. This means no kite, you have to tank them on a spot. Being by one of the pillars wasn't "far away enough", supposing this thing is even true. When we kited them instead of tanking them, they never used triple reversal.

  • Even though under a certain % the boss starts dispelling buffs (conic frontal I think?) I found SCH to be quite nice as a healer with a kiting tank. Can land Regen5 on the group fighting the boss and focus on keeping the tank alive and the BLMs silenced. To be fair you could say that arguably DDs don't need heals at all, not even regen. You're not supposed to get hit, if you are you die, and the boss move that drains HP and destroys shadows only deals HP% damage so it will never kill you

  • I had several heart attacks when the boss was using a move deleting all my shadows the second I press a WS macro... >_>''

  • You might want to tell your kiting tank to avoid using Crusade, and if you have NIN DDs tell them to keep Yonin and Gekka up, otherwise the boss might eventually go after the kiting tank if your DDs suck at keeping hate!

  • If for any chance you wipe and boss regens, he won't repop the adds he already popped. So for instance you bring it to 60 and Die, he regens to 100% and you re-engage, he won't pop adds again when you reach 70%

  • On (D) when I was on GEO/RDM and SCH/RDM even without food I could land Silence, Paralyze and Slow on adds very easy. Always went 1/1 with those. Silence on the boss instead took me several attempts but then again didn't seem that hard to stick

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By geigei 2017-10-13 02:10:42
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What diff is that sechs? my biggest problem on vd (holding adds) is once enforce spam starts, dd lose hate and boss move to tank, all downhill from there.
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By Siren.Kyte 2017-10-13 02:24:58
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People need to stop using the term "supertank" when talking about ambuscade, as it doesn't apply and it just confuses people that don't realize that.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-10-13 02:32:34
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geigei said: »
What diff is that sechs? my biggest problem on vd (holding adds) is once enforce spam starts, dd lose hate and boss move to tank, all downhill from there.
I was with random people in a PUG in their first attempt, so of course it was just (D) xD
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-10-13 03:35:41
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I forgot to add info on the setup we used with that PUG.

Setup:
NIN x3
RUN/WAR
WHM
BRD/WHM

Buffs:
Honor March, Victory March, Blade Madrigal, Minuet V. With this setup acc was capped for all NINs (I was using my non-acc set lol)
With NQ Whistle you need Marcato HM to cap Magic haste with Victory March. (or Haste1). With HQ whistle it's not necessary, altough obviously it's still good to Marcato HM.
Was still good to keep Haste1 up when the boss is at low % and starts dispelling song.
Barthunder - helped against stun from that single target move the Boss has. Although you could argue with all those shadows nobody should get hit by it.

Tank:
Given Legion-zone mechanic, using a JA like OFA or Valiance when adds popped, made them go on the tank. Once BLMs were silenced and adds alligned, it was easy for the tank to kite them around the pillars and stop every now and then for a Foil.

NIN:
Keep Yonin and Gekka up at all times, I was even using the Subtle Blow and STP buffs. NIN debuffs were all landing nicely. Takes a while to land Blind (not worth it?) never managed to land Yurin.

Things that could've been improved:
Different WS setup.
One ninja had Heishi Shorinken and access to both Shun and Hi.
One ninja had Heishi Shorinken but no access to Hi.
The third ninja was using Kannagi and had access to both WSs, but if you use Shun without Heishi it won't gain Light properties, so it won't constantly SC with the other two using Shun.
It's exactely what happened to us, everybody was using Shun and his WSs were interrupting the SC from the other two.
We should've spammed Hi in such a situation maybe, but one of the NIN was missing the WS sadly.
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By Bismarck.Rwolf 2017-10-13 07:19:27
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I consider super tanking to be anything when you're holding multiple enemies that are attacking you. Enmity works differently in there but I don't consider enmity tactics part of the definition. Everyone should know by now how enmity works in there.

Adding testimonial to Triple Reversal distance. We had boss at far opposite corner of entering. I was on the wall near the entrance and still got Triple Reversal on Difficult. Not sure if had to be further away.
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-10-13 07:31:36
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BlaTheTaru said: »
Asura.Shyara said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
We went with

It's not till the second wave spawns that he gets en-death, and if you damage him then it's chance of killing you skyrockets.

actually when we left the adds alone (tank was kiting them) NM still killed our dd;s with endeath when shadows were down for a second shortly after the adds popped. so i think he gets en-death as soon as the adds pop.

Yeah, we were holding the first set of adds and we are eating endeath at the first pops.

Ah we never noticed it, but then we didn't deal damage to the boss once the first set poped so it's possible it starts with a near 0% proc rate that goes up when people damage him.

Bismarck.Rwolf said: »
I consider super tanking to be anything when you're holding multiple enemies that are attacking you. Enmity works differently in there but I don't consider enmity tactics part of the definition. Everyone should know by now how enmity works in there.

Just FYI,

The term "super tanking" is a technical term used to refer when a tank holds enmity by aggroing things but not doing any actions on them. It gives the tank the equivalent of infinite enmity so a healer can cure bomb them all day long without fear of pulling hate. So when anyone says "super tank X" that's what they are going to think about.
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By afheal 2017-10-13 07:34:25
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I went with a PUG group yesterday as sam and found seigan/third eye to be extremely reliable on D. I even went so far as running sam/drk (brd was missing HM) and i didnt die while pulling hate.
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By Sylph.Wardeniv 2017-10-13 08:11:54
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We tried fiddling around with VD last night. As others have said, this is the easiest month in a while.

Our setup was BRD/smn, RUN/blu, SCH, NIN, NIN, COR. Fight length was around 8-10 minutes. We reset 1 hours between each run to be safe since we were popping seals and wanted to just ensure wins. Pretty much just used the strategies already outlined to similar success.

NINs tanked and killed the boss. BRD gave the DD's victory/honor/mad/min x2, and gave me honor/ballad/minne x3. I popped embolden before the SCH Regen V'd the party, which gave a 250 hp/tick regen for the duration of the fight with embrava.

When the adds popped, I grabbed hate, pulled them away and engaged to be able to parry. They generally hit for 0-25, with random spikes to 100-200. Nukes do hit quite hard (1000-1200 fully buffed), so it is suggested to keep the BLMs silenced as others have suggested.
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By Ragnarok.Senzumi 2017-10-13 09:08:43
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Been using about the same strat as Wardeniv for D/VD but can swap cor and bard for geo's as well if those two are not around for your group, works about the same. Nins tank main while pld super/tanks the first set of adds until the main is dead. As stated above it is not actual super tanking, you will need to actually use your abilities to keep hate on the smalls as in Ambuscade every starts with hate regardless of actions they have done.
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By Phoenix.Mikumaru 2017-10-13 09:13:46
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Reading through the posts about this month's V1 seems to have some conflicting info about Mewing Lullaby. Does the sleep land or is it just for the TP reset? The initial Post sounded like the Sleep landed and lasted 2+ minutes but this thread seems to state the opposite. Light Based sleep landing and sticking sounds legit vs. Dark based and the use of an Avatar vs. BRD or BLU sounds a lot safer with less possibility of things going awry. Clarification would very helpful ^.^
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By Asura.Avallon 2017-10-13 09:30:38
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Phoenix.Mikumaru said: »
Reading through the posts about this month's V1 seems to have some conflicting info about Mewing Lullaby. Does the sleep land or is it just for the TP reset? The initial Post sounded like the Sleep landed and lasted 2+ minutes but this thread seems to state the opposite. Light Based sleep landing and sticking sounds legit vs. Dark based and the use of an Avatar vs. BRD or BLU sounds a lot safer with less possibility of things going awry. Clarification would very helpful ^.^

Mewing Lullaby by default rarely lands the sleep portion of the BP. It's used 99% of the time for the TP loss ability. That is what really helps the fight (if you use SMN that is).

I've done with and without SMN so it just depends on your job set up and group dynamics as to whether you'd need it.
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-10-13 09:32:23
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Mewing works from /SMN as well, so no need for a full SMN.
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By Asura.Avallon 2017-10-13 09:33:32
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SMN main is still useful for Earthen Armor, Hastega II, Slowga, etc - in addition to Mewing.
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By Sylph.Reain 2017-10-13 09:33:56
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Papesse really nailed the strategy this month. BRD and COR buffs were fine with Utsusemi: San and Ni. I think if not using Ninjas having a GEO would be better because of Gen'ei Ryodan dispel.

Animating Wail is haste, if using slow1 you'll need to remove haste and reapply.

Need to watch your tank holding the adds doesn't rip hate on the mega boss or it will come over and wreck with triple reversal.
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-10-13 09:40:34
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Asura.Avallon said: »
SMN main is still useful for Earthen Armor, Hastega II, Slowga, etc - in addition to Mewing.

EA won't help on attacks dealing preposterous damage like 16K and 33K. Haste II is irrelevant as Haste + Indi-Haste / Songs / ect.. cap magic haste. Slow can already be applied on everything along with Silence.

If you want to make an argument for SMN then use Rumah's Favor being insanely potent for increasing melee damage. Ultimately everything done can be done better by a GEO/SMN or BRD/SMN. No need to take up an entire slot with SMN, unless that's all someone in a group has and they don't want to leave them out.
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By Phoenix.Mikumaru 2017-10-13 09:41:42
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Asura.Avallon said: »
Phoenix.Mikumaru said: »
Reading through the posts about this month's V1 seems to have some conflicting info about Mewing Lullaby. Does the sleep land or is it just for the TP reset? The initial Post sounded like the Sleep landed and lasted 2+ minutes but this thread seems to state the opposite. Light Based sleep landing and sticking sounds legit vs. Dark based and the use of an Avatar vs. BRD or BLU sounds a lot safer with less possibility of things going awry. Clarification would very helpful ^.^

Mewing Lullaby by default rarely lands the sleep portion of the BP. It's used 99% of the time for the TP loss ability. That is what really helps the fight (if you use SMN that is).

I've done with and without SMN so it just depends on your job set up and group dynamics as to whether you'd need it.
okie doke. thnx for the clarification. So the adds then are completely immune to all sleeps or has there been no test of Lullaby or Soporific?
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-10-13 09:43:32
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Phoenix.Mikumaru said: »
Asura.Avallon said: »
Phoenix.Mikumaru said: »
Reading through the posts about this month's V1 seems to have some conflicting info about Mewing Lullaby. Does the sleep land or is it just for the TP reset? The initial Post sounded like the Sleep landed and lasted 2+ minutes but this thread seems to state the opposite. Light Based sleep landing and sticking sounds legit vs. Dark based and the use of an Avatar vs. BRD or BLU sounds a lot safer with less possibility of things going awry. Clarification would very helpful ^.^

Mewing Lullaby by default rarely lands the sleep portion of the BP. It's used 99% of the time for the TP loss ability. That is what really helps the fight (if you use SMN that is).

I've done with and without SMN so it just depends on your job set up and group dynamics as to whether you'd need it.
okie doke. thnx for the clarification. So the adds then are completely immune to all sleeps or has there been no test of Lullaby or Soporific?


Immune to sleep as far as we can tell. Undead are immune to dark based sleeps so Soporific will never land. Lullaby never landed and neither did sheep song.
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By Asura.Alfylicious 2017-10-13 09:51:32
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Repose was completely resisted on both Normal and Difficult at least for me.

Side note: It is pretty refreshing that it only takes 4-5 sealed V1D runs to be done with ambuscade for the month. That has been a huge QoL buff!
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By Asura.Avallon 2017-10-13 09:55:13
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Asura.Alfylicious said: »
Repose was completely resisted on both Normal and Difficult at least for me.

Side note: It is pretty refreshing that it only takes 4-5 sealed V1D runs to be done with ambuscade for the month. That has been a huge QoL buff!

Yeah, it's fairly easy to cap (at 20k Hallmarks), but easier months like this make it more efficient to completely clean out all the currency and upgrade items as well.
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By Bismarck.Indigla 2017-10-13 11:07:14
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Vid of VD in ~7mins, NINx3 BRD WHM/SCH RUN. Interesting how low the NINs get, I guess the Unblest Jambiya move only steals a % of HP, but can't kill.
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By Asura.Avallon 2017-10-13 11:12:27
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Bismarck.Indigla said: »
Vid of VD in ~7mins, NINx3 BRD WHM/SCH RUN. Interesting how low the NINs get, I guess the Unblest Jambiya move only steals a % of HP, but can't kill.
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I'm totally stoked that Ninja gets a little time in the spotlight. It's certainly been a while (like, Colibri parties).
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By DirectX 2017-10-13 11:18:55
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Why does the WHM not bother to cure them at all?
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By Asura.Inuyushi 2017-10-13 11:22:13
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DirectX said: »
Why does the WHM not bother to cure them at all?

If you cure them, the mob absorbs more HP and it takes longer to kill. The only move he has access under 30% are either absorbable by shadows or absorb a certain % of your current HP. Since he can only take a % of your current HP, he can never kill you. Unlike last month where Steel HP took 50% of your max HP. Which is why some DD's would splat without notice when he would use Steal HP back to back.
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By Sylph.Reain 2017-10-13 11:23:06
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Carbuncle.Papesse said: »
Enforce : AoE HP Drain (15'~ range), drain is based on players current HP and cannot kill them, it also heals the boss for much more than it steals HP, making it unkillable when players are at full HP. The trick is to not cure melees and let them tank with 10 HP to sufficiently weaken the drain.

Probably doesn't need to be as low as 10 HP though.
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-10-13 11:23:59
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was said before, NM steals HP, and gains a large amount back, so lower hp = less HP back.
Something about unable to kill it when HP returns to full and NM uses Move again, so better to remain at low HP, which gives it less HP back which means you can eventually kill it.
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By Shiva.Spynx 2017-10-13 11:31:53
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I think (please correct if I'm wrong as I haven't thoroughly tested) all of its drain moves are based on some HP percentage and can't kill you. This includes Unblest Jambiya, Turning Table, Hex Palm and Enforce. The only moves able to kill you as long as you have shadows are Gen'ei Ryodan (need 5 shadows or you can be en-death during stun) and Spinal Cleave (bypass shadows)
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2017-10-13 13:05:45
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We always stay at the lowest HP possible under 30%
This will let you finish way faster~
WHM can focus more on the kiter that way as well.
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By Sylph.Gobbo 2017-10-13 14:18:14
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Yeah, I was the SCH in Warden's setup and the Regen/Embrava was enough for me to ignore the NINs and focus on Tank. It's super important that the tank NOT pull hate on mega boss if at all possible. Our deaths were mostly caused from RUN accidentally pulling hate on Mega Boss from NINs and either the NINs ate it to a stray Thundaga III or the RUN took a Triple Reversal in the bum.

The adds are easily silenceable so keeping the astrologers silenced will prevent a lot of headaches.
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