Escutcheons Final Stage

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Escutcheons final stage
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 Ragnarok.Phuoc
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By Ragnarok.Phuoc 2017-10-19 20:37:45
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Fenrir.Snaps said: »
You can't get 1/9 from T0. There was testing on BG indicating that +1 to HQ rate != +1%.

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/130586-CraftyMath-v2-Post-September-2017-Update

+4 to HQ rate only yielded a final rate of about 2.5% for T0. Orvail also only gives +1.

Orvail ring and craftmaster both give +1 for the total i mentioned, and im just trying to give a theory why this guy on asura is hqing a lot, i still think the shield finished, both rings with food puts you on a very high hq rate.
 Asura.Fiasko
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By Asura.Fiasko 2017-10-19 20:44:19
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Ragnarok.Phuoc said: »
Fenrir.Snaps said: »
You can't get 1/9 from T0. There was testing on BG indicating that +1 to HQ rate != +1%.

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/130586-CraftyMath-v2-Post-September-2017-Update

+4 to HQ rate only yielded a final rate of about 2.5% for T0. Orvail also only gives +1.

Orvail ring and craftmaster both give +1 for the total i mentioned, and im just trying to give a theory why this guy on asura is hqing a lot, i still think the shield finished, both rings with food puts you on a very high hq rate.

Can we discredit the idea that the new KI gives HQ+ Rate?
 Asura.Xaantus
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By Asura.Xaantus 2017-10-19 21:36:12
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I might be a little behind but has anyone put a percentage or rate on what HQ rate +1 actually is? You can get up to +8 with food and finished shield. Considering what I have personally experienced since September..(my own rates have been pretty good) 1/8ish T1, probably 1/20 or so on T0 with good/bad streaks... Always using food and gimped with only craftmasters and no orvail. Even doubling that rate seems a little short of what this guy is putting out.

That phrase "Cannot synth NQ items" intrigues me. Leaves it open for interpretation. Someone mentioned something earlier about a person busting out mache+1 on their server at like a 50% rate..sounds fishy.
 
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 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-10-20 11:31:59
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maybe because all shield ppl will hold the HQ market, then the NQ market will be held by regular crafters? I mean if using the shield means NO nqs, wouldnt that make nqs 'rarer'? Not saying its good logic from SE, but I could see that being a reason.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-10-20 12:02:00
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Asura.Azagarth said: »
I mean if using the shield means NO nqs, wouldnt that make nqs 'rarer'?
Not really. The HQ shield users would just not use the enchantment and craft a few NQs if the price is right.
 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2017-10-20 12:20:39
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Lepetit89 said: »
so I'm not sure if this was thought through in the slightest...
Have you seen what they did to Boost?

Lepetit89 said: »
A complete crafting overhaul probably would have been preferable compared to this
Be careful what you wish for. SE isn't the Robin Williams kind of genie. They are more like the Wishmaster.
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By clearlyamule 2017-10-20 13:49:48
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Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
Lepetit89 said: »
so I'm not sure if this was thought through in the slightest...
Have you seen what they did to Boost?

Lepetit89 said: »
A complete crafting overhaul probably would have been preferable compared to this
Be careful what you wish for. SE isn't the Robin Williams kind of genie. They are more like the Wishmaster.
So each time you HQ a taru dies?
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-10-20 13:58:25
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I think (???) another shield has been completed. This time it's on Asura, Goldsmithing as well.
(supposing it's not the same Ragnarok guy who server hopped to Asura?)
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By Taint 2017-10-20 14:18:28
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I think it’s been posted already.

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Asura/Akaitorepan

He’s finished and making stupid amounts of gil. The final stage seems like such a miss by SE.
 Asura.Solymr
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By Asura.Solymr 2017-10-20 15:30:32
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So now that people are progressing through this is the formula for opportunity cost something like:

(((128000/A)*E)) + (((128000/A) * B * C * D)) * (G/3600))) + F

Don't bust my *** on brackets I'm on a phone and haven't done math in ages.

A= average sphere synth spirit granted
B= kills needed for a drop
C= synths needed for a successful desynth
D= time spent per mob kill in seconds
E= time spent per synth in seconds
F= Total Catalyst Cost
G= Average gil acquisition rate/hr doing something else (divided by 3600 to calculate it per second)

So using the following scenario it would "cost" ~2B gil to make a shield.

7 spirit per sphere (going from the post saying a 5 step gives 38 spirit and a 6 step gives 45) with a 10 second synth time (Is this accurate?) spending 45 seconds per kill (can this be sustained with repop times?) with a drop rate of 40% (10% with thf3 for each fetich part with the chance of any part to drop) with a 33% desynth rate (this too is probably way off). This assumes a two box killing things while the main is synthing and the synther can keep up with the drops.

(((128000/7)*10)) + (128000/7) * 2.5 * 3 * 45) * (1000000/3600) + 150,000,000=

182850 seconds to sphere synth (51 hours)
6171428 seconds to acquire spheres (1714 hours)
For a total of 1765 hours to complete if you farmed everything under these conditions. If you could make 1M/hr other places the opportunity cost would be 1,765,000,000 + 150,000,000 for catalysts. 2 billion ballpark.

I would say that is on the light side of estimates as most mobs dont have the opportunity for multiple drops and most of these are in the 5-15% drop rate range. It also doesnt consider mob competition, times where crafting slows down the farming due to the ex status of these items, players who dont 2 box, etc. Also, killing 137142 mobs and keeping a 45 second clip you have to account for slowing down just due to tedium assuming they aren't automated. It also assumes a 1M/hr opportunity cost which is low for a lot of people. If you can make 2M/hr the opportunity cost would double to 4B under these conditions.

For those that have started, are these drop rates, kill rates, desynth rates in the ballpark? I dont think I'm interested under these conditions as I always tended to max crafting/fishing/digging/etc for a sense of completion rather than gil but it may help someone see how huge of an ask this is. Only seems worth it if you are first to finish.
 Siren.Switchorz
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By Siren.Switchorz 2017-10-20 15:54:50
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I can't bring myself to do it. 20ish successful synths per hour and I average 7 points per sphere. I try to avoid using light/dark spheres since they aren't reliable to obtain.

Palborough usually has someone there so trying other places isn't as productive. I can do an hour or two in another area and that's it.
 Shiva.Cahota
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By Shiva.Cahota 2017-10-20 16:13:42
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ya its so boring, and the break rate is horrible.
 
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 Fenrir.Kut
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By Fenrir.Kut 2017-10-20 17:30:10
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 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-10-20 17:35:37
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The testing thus far on the new HQ rates indicates that the values added by +HQ rate gear might be constant and tiered.

T0 - +1/512
T1 - +1/128
T2 - +1/32
T3 - +1/16

I'm just pulling up these numbers from what I imagine it might be like, so don't take them literally, but it might help explain the high rates the dude is getting. The testing for T0/T1 indicates that this they are at least within the ballpark. T2 going from 8/32 -> 18/32 is about what he is getting I think? Haven't seen any testing on it so far though. Also it would clash against what they said players would notice (a huge increase on T0.)
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By Smokenttp 2017-10-20 17:38:45
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Asura.Xaantus said: »

That phrase "Cannot synth NQ items" intrigues me. Leaves it open for interpretation.
yeah square already posted on the oficial forum about this one it makes so that if you get an nq roll on the item you are makin it insta breaks the item instead of giving you an nq one, so i kinda fell stupid for that 8/8 on hqs while i forgot about that , the real question should be how many breaks did he have before getting those hqs in.
for those who missed the post about the shield effect : http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/53191-Freshly-Picked-Vana-diel-35-Digest?p=600880#post600880

here it states the following:
The final form of Escutcheons are finally being released. Base attributes on these escutcheons include: synthesis skill+, synthesis speed +240, decreases the likelihood of synthesis material loss -5%, increases rate of high-quality item synthesis success +2. Upon using the enchantment, it’ll further grant the following effects on top of the base attributes: decreases likelihood of synthesis material loss -15%, increases rate of high-quality item synthesis success +3, Subskill +10 (Max 70), and an effect that will make it so that you cannot synthesize normal quality items. This means that if high quality is not possible, it will be considered a failure, similar to how a stubborn craftsman might destroy an imperfect work out of frustration.

Here, we also offered two pieces of information which may be valuable to crafters of Vana’diel.
The first is regarding high quality crystals.

High quality crystals are often used to sign your name onto crafted items; however, they also have the hidden effect. They can decrease the rate of synthesis materials being lost from failure as well.

The other is regarding the synthesis success rate cap.
The synthesis success rate cap is 95%, but with equipment and food which increases the success rate of sysnthesis the success rate can be raised to 99%. We may have overdone it a little...
The forumula for the attribute "Increases the rate of high-quality item synthesis success"
(00:36:54)
We have changed the formula used to calculate the attribute which increases the success rate of high-quality item synthesis. With this adjustment, the overall success rate to synthesize a high quality item has been increased. You may have noticed that we had in-game food items called Rusk which didn't display any food effects. The reason why it didn’t display the effects for these items was because we first wanted to make this adjustment.
 Fenrir.Kut
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By Fenrir.Kut 2017-10-20 17:45:37
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I think I should also clarify on my screenshot above that he did break a large number of times, which is not explicitly shown in the screen shot above due to no loss in materials, but can be accounted for by taking a look at the time stamps with the knowledge that he did not stop crafting during this period.

edit: which so happens to be what the above poster was asking for lol
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By Chimerawizard 2017-10-20 17:50:38
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Fenrir.Snaps said: »
The testing thus far on the new HQ rates indicates that the values added by +HQ rate gear might be constant and tiered.

T0 - +1/512
T1 - +1/128
T2 - +1/32
T3 - +1/16

I'm just pulling up these numbers from what I imagine it might be like, so don't take them literally, but it might help explain the high rates the dude is getting. The testing for T0/T1 indicates that this they are at least within the ballpark. T2 going from 8/32 -> 18/32 is about what he is getting I think? Haven't seen any testing on it so far though. Also it would clash against what they said players would notice (a huge increase on T0.)
If that is close to correct, then they could have changed the term to hint at it working similar to "All Songs"+ or Geomancy+

T(?)*1.X=HQ rate
T(?) being base hq rate for that tier.
X being the sum of HQ+ gear & food.
IE 10% increase of base HQ per HQ+1.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2017-10-20 18:09:52
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Fenrir.Kut said: »
pic

11 Voodoo in 8 Minutes.

Hax.
 Quetzalcoatl.Zorik
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By Quetzalcoatl.Zorik 2017-10-20 18:32:36
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Fenrir.Kut said: »
pic

11 Voodoo in 8 Minutes.

Hax.

Schuhs are tier 2. This is not entirely impressive. I want to see a screenshot of t1/t0.
 Quetzalcoatl.Commencal
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By Quetzalcoatl.Commencal 2017-10-20 18:41:22
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Quetzalcoatl.Zorik said: »
Asura.Eiryl said: »
Fenrir.Kut said: »
pic

11 Voodoo in 8 Minutes.

Hax.

Schuhs are tier 2. This is not entirely impressive. I want to see a screenshot of t1/t0.

Voodoo are T2. Unless I'm mistaken, I think kupo is needed to T2 level 94 recipes.

I'm interested how many times he lost no materials
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By clearlyamule 2017-10-20 19:13:47
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Quetzalcoatl.Zorik said: »
Asura.Eiryl said: »
Fenrir.Kut said: »
pic

11 Voodoo in 8 Minutes.

Hax.

Schuhs are tier 2. This is not entirely impressive. I want to see a screenshot of t1/t0.
Er I'm dumb

That said it's always possible he is using some nqs since he was buying them before and doing some T0 in there as well
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-10-20 20:04:26
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Yeah I guess it is difficult to evaluate since we don't have information on no loss breaks.
 Quetzalcoatl.Tesseracta
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By Quetzalcoatl.Tesseracta 2017-10-20 22:30:08
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Has anyone switched their adoulin ring to orvail+1 and seen a marked increase in success/HQ with sphere farming? I'm using the coalition HQ+ and material loss- rings, and with capped lightning energy, desynth moghancement, and food, I'm getting ~40 spheres ~100 synths an hour in palborough.
 Asura.Xaantus
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By Asura.Xaantus 2017-10-20 23:08:02
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Smokenttp said: »
Quote:
Asura.Xaantus said: »

That phrase "Cannot synth NQ items" intrigues me. Leaves it open for interpretation.
yeah square already posted on the oficial forum about this one it makes so that if you get an nq roll on the item you are makin it insta breaks the item instead of giving you an nq one, so i kinda fell stupid for that 8/8 on hqs while i forgot about that , the real question should be how many breaks did he have before getting those hqs in.
for those who missed the post about the shield effect : http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/53191-Freshly-Picked-Vana-diel-35-Digest?p=600880#post600880

This is kind of what I was wondering...makes sense. I wasn't sure how the roll/outcome worked. If there was a base chance that a succesful synth would result in HQ or it was completely based on Tier %+ HQ increases. NQ bust..ok...but according to that recent screenshot, I still think it's overpowered. I think just giving a 1 synth shot at HQ on a 24 hour timer would be sufficient, and then some.
 Ragnarok.Phuoc
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By Ragnarok.Phuoc 2017-10-21 08:00:51
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Quetzalcoatl.Tesseracta said: »
Has anyone switched their adoulin ring to orvail+1 and seen a marked increase in success/HQ with sphere farming? I'm using the coalition HQ+ and material loss- rings, and with capped lightning energy, desynth moghancement, and food, I'm getting ~40 spheres ~100 synths an hour in palborough.

Im using orvail/craft ring for +2 success rate + rusk and the gold gear i can equip, getting around the 60+ mark an hour but while i craft with the mule, im farming with the main as blu with th4 so there's no stops for me.
 Quetzalcoatl.Tesseracta
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By Quetzalcoatl.Tesseracta 2017-10-21 11:57:53
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Ragnarok.Phuoc said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Tesseracta said: »
Has anyone switched their adoulin ring to orvail+1 and seen a marked increase in success/HQ with sphere farming? I'm using the coalition HQ+ and material loss- rings, and with capped lightning energy, desynth moghancement, and food, I'm getting ~40 spheres ~100 synths an hour in palborough.

Im using orvail/craft ring for +2 success rate + rusk and the gold gear i can equip, getting around the 60+ mark an hour but while i craft with the mule, im farming with the main as blu with th4 so there's no stops for me.
Thanks for the input, I'm making the orvail+1 now.

I don't think skill+ gear effects these desynths though. I just tried the giant fish bones recipe on my bonecraft mule. The shield didn't reduce the synth speed, and it didn't count toward the daily bonecraft RoE. Have you (or anyone else) seen otherwise?
 Ragnarok.Phuoc
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By Ragnarok.Phuoc 2017-10-21 12:29:32
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Quetzalcoatl.Tesseracta said: »
Ragnarok.Phuoc said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Tesseracta said: »
Has anyone switched their adoulin ring to orvail+1 and seen a marked increase in success/HQ with sphere farming? I'm using the coalition HQ+ and material loss- rings, and with capped lightning energy, desynth moghancement, and food, I'm getting ~40 spheres ~100 synths an hour in palborough.

Im using orvail/craft ring for +2 success rate + rusk and the gold gear i can equip, getting around the 60+ mark an hour but while i craft with the mule, im farming with the main as blu with th4 so there's no stops for me.
Thanks for the input, I'm making the orvail+1 now.

I don't think skill+ gear effects these desynths though. I just tried the giant fish bones recipe on my bonecraft mule. The shield didn't reduce the synth speed, and it didn't count toward the daily bonecraft RoE. Have you (or anyone else) seen otherwise?

Yea it doesnt count towards synthesis but well, its all the craft gear i have in those slots so placebo effect!
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