Why Are Aeonics Worth So Many Points?

Thank you.

BAWW!

Even if conduit was completely removed. you can cover the < 1 minute kills via apogee and wildcard rotations. Mechanically there are several reasons beyond just conduit as to why this game is broken trash.

I wish Rooks would accept help. Whatever conclusion we come to, could be implemented in a reasonable time frame.

Someone's salty

Are these Empys not good?
1. Almace - both as offhand and mainhand. Depending on situation, will outparse Tizona and Sequence.
2. Gandiva - when you choose to use bow for some reason?
3. Calad - DRKs best dps weapon?
4. Twash - best stacked Rudra's?
5. Armageddon - DP wins, but its still a top tier weapon and I think better than Fomlhaut.
6. Daurdabla - 4x Songs > Honor March. Get both I know, but Empy definitely is better than Aeonic.
7. Ochain - Better than anything for blood tanking physical mobs? Not sure, heard Aeonic could be better with reprisal.

Also not sure how GH compare to Verethragnas.

-Is Kikoku better than Aeonic for Ninja?
-Nirvana is easily best SMN weapon.
-Lionheart I guess you could say wins for DPS, but I'm fairly certain all RUNs would rather have Epo.
-Aegis > Aeonic, easily
-Burtgang & Excalibur > Sequence
-Ukon vs Chango? In a SC setup, which is what WAR should be doing with GA, I would say Chango will win.

Verethragna is a pretty sad weapon from what I remember. If my memory serves right you only get the Triple damage procs on your second hand. So there is no way to multiattack it.


Edit: Yap...

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Empyrean_Aftermath

Yeah. But last time I checked, it beat Glaznfaust (and Spharai) when AG'ed. MNK in general is just in a bad spot.

The one point I will concede is that yes, you need a party or others to get your aeonic. You can't solo it, while you can solo everything for the other legendary weapons.

But, it is far easier to buy an aeonic than it is for other weapons. No one is going to sell the assault clears, einherjar points, camping lottery NMs, ws trials... The only thing not on sale for Aeonics are the 50k beads. And that is a lot less stressful than doing all the other stupid ***involved in R/E/Ms.

I think

1.Relics should remain as is. (15-27,000)
2.Empyreans be buffed a bit. maybe 5k more points (15-32,000)
3.Mythics 10k more points (20-46,000)
4.Ergons 15k more points (51,000)
5.Aeonics dropped 5k points (31,000)

1. Almace is best off hand but not main hand. CDC at 3K is wasting 2K TP and the ODT effect is only on main hand which is 50% of your attacks.

2. Marks is best and for Archery it's really a toss up based on ~why~ your using it to begin with.

3. Only because DRK can't use Lionheart. If DRK was on Lionheart it would crush Calad and actually make DRK competitive with WAR. For SC's Calad sucks because it doesn't have Scourge which is needed for a multi-step light on GS. Anguta is best for multi-step Darkness on Scythe.

4. Twash is similar to Almace, best off hand because the ODT effect only procs on 50% of your melee attacks and there are better main hand options, like Aeonic.

5. Aeonic will beat Arma due to TP scaling on both Last Stand and Leaden, DP is best only for Leaden due to the +30% damage, same situation Gandiva is with RNG.

Should be noticing a trend here, Emps are generally just +50 to a stat while Aeonic is +500 TP Bonus. The Emp's effect only works on main hand swings and this game is dominated by WS damage. People see the 50% ODT and get all stary eyed forgetting that it only matters if they suck *** and WS really slowly. SAM is one of the few jobs that really gets to use the most out of it's Emp because the stars lined up and it doesn't take any penalties from doing so, but even then it only marginally wins when spamming a single WS (which is a viable strategy on some things).


Aeonic crush's Relic Katana and Emperian is in an even worse position because AGI is worthless outside of Hi.

Nirvana is no brainer.

Lionheart is best for DPS on DD RUN, which is actually a thing. Would easily be best for DRK if it was allowed to use it.

Excalibur sucks *** compared to Sequence, in what universe will Attack +60 beat out Store TP 10 and +500 TP Bonus on a Weapon Type that has good TP scaling. Burtang sucks as a DPS weapon but is good as a tanking weapon.

Ukon sucks balls compared to both Rag (Conq) or Chango. It's just +50 Strength on a weapon type that's best WS is VIT based. What's worth is that UF at 3K TP is a waste of 2K Tp, hell a waste of 3K TP considering how weak it is compared to the rest. Conq is in the same niche as Ragnarok, spamming a single WS that's easy to abuse.

Aeonics are harder then Ergons....

Like right now I could go out and buy myself either of the Ergon weapons, would take me less then 24hrs. Stop confusing artificial time gates with actual difficulty. There is nothing "difficult" with doing any of the requirements for REM's. Waiting is not a skill.

Time =/= Difficulty

This is such an odd concern.

But if point balance is something you want addressed, wouldn't it make the most sense to start with the tally for having jobs mastered?
On one hand, some jobs are much more useful than others. Would a useful job be worth more points or less?
On the other hand, most just sit AFK while someone else burns the mobs on BLM or BLU anyway. So maybe no points should be given at all.

Or maybe you could get behind some combination where:
If you have SMN at 99, Aeonics are worth 1 point each.
If you have BLU at 99, Mythics are worth 1 point each.
If you have THF or DNC at 99, Relics are worth 1 point each.
If you have anything at 99, Empys are worth 1 point each.

I understand the point system is a feature of the website, but I'm not sure why anyone would pay any attention to it. Are you only recruiting people to your linkshell if they are within the top X or something?
I'm really not seeing why Rooks should be expected to invest any time on the points system.
I took this thread to be just another way to humble brag about something that's reasonably easy to accomplish with some research, effort and team work--Regardless of the job choices made.

The problem is that any revision of it will have to take in that so many things aren't even achievements or accomplishments anymore- basically everything in the game can be argued, in one way or another, legtimately, to not be an accomplishment.

I could probably move up thirty ranks, or more, on my ranking for Asura if I bothered to finish leveling all jobs, subcrafts, finish my atma, do a couple mission lines, etc, etc. There are tons of people I personally know who have afk'd multiple jobs they don't even play to master, I constantly see people mercing aeonics, selling power leveling, etc, etc.

The ranking can't take into account stuff like "number of new players taken under your wing only to see surpass you, and help you with things like you helped them" or "devotion spent to a perfectly functional and useful job when no one wanted it" or "times your RME job got turned down for content you can solo that you don't even need when you offered to join a party because you were in town and bored and needed it" or any other number of things that are far, far, far more important and 'worth' more to the game and its community.

Not to mention there's an awful lot of people, I've noticed, who have every empyrean at level 90. I personally think nothing but 119 I/II/III RME should count for points anymore, if only to counteract people who just ***them out for points instead of to actually use them. If I could make any one change to the current system, it would be that.

I mean, looking at a lot of people who have larger ePeen numbers than me, I see tons who'd lose a hundred thousand or more points if you just discounted every piece of non 119 RME.

I conceded that point earlier in the post. "Difficulty". However time sink wise, which I put a lot more value on, I still think Ergons are the biggest time sink, followed by Mythics, then empyreans and finally Aeonics. I don't place much stock in "difficulty" because that's a time-stamped variable that will change with time. People will git-gud, exploit (lolsmnzergs) or the ilvl of gear will increase. In which case the only constant is time.
The point of contention seems to be what is more of a factor; time or difficulty. I say time. You are saying Difficulty.
Do we agree that is where the difference of opinion is?

I totally disagree with this one. Any ghetto BRD owns a Terpander which means a Daurdabla is only one not 2 extra songs. Also even if its individual effects aren't as powerful as especialized songs, Honor is 3 songs into one.

Aeonic Bard is better than Empy Bard. Honor March is basically 3 songs in one (so 2 extra), and actually better than that because of the interaction with Marcato.

I would place the highest value on Aeonics, because far more people have the time to grind than have the high caliber like minded friend base needed for the Aeonics.

Its limited since it can't be ghorned. I'm capping haste just fine with Victory March Ghorned and Haste. Leaving 3 Ghorn songs for pure accuracy/racc, atk/ratk.

I totally agree with you on Multi-steps.. but that is during low man super coordinated, or solo SC scenarios only..

When will you have time to multi-step in a Zerg-fest spam with multiple Fudos back to back?? Does anyone ever have coordination to plan something like that in a straight zerg against multiple other people spamming? It's not so practical unless you plan it and practice, I'm sure not many groups even care to do that unless it's in Omen.. For WoC, Kirin, Teles and other T4s.. Masa is your choice. No one is going to perform continuous 6-steps alongside others. I'm sure it's possible though with a lot of patience and frustrations with people *** up..

Like I said, I agree that Doji is probably going to do better in a sequence of uninterrupted or super coordinated multi-steps Skill chains even coronated with other jobs including Radiance/Umbra creation...

However in a straight zerg with everyone spamming same ws like Fudo and/or.. then I doubt it. Moment AMIII crits on Masa proc highest tiers during QA or TA or Zanshin, it's over for Doji. Doji will have to get to 3-Hit level to compensate for all the ridiculous white damage (6-7k almost constantly) that Masa brings to the table. Doji cannot achieve that white damage, it relies on skill chain bonus.. It's not just barely going to push it Saevel... It demolishes it by a large margin.. I have both weapons.. with Yaegasumi combined Masa grins even more. Ejinn and Llewellyn confirmed it being on top few months ago.. Don't underestimate it.. Even in my current state I've really noticed the differences..

It's like Caladbolg.. Aeonics higher base damage isn't going to cut it during Fudo spam. It's all about the 3-Hit builds that brings them up to compete. The overflow would be insane to control as well lol..

Although I see your point only on controlled chain situations where no one is allowed to interrupt..

just get rid of ranking?

From a while ago...

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/50570/jobs-where-non-rema-is-bis/2/#3242802

Extrapolating on this data - In zerg circumstances, AM3 is going to give you maybe a marginal 10% increase in DPS. Its perceived effect on zerg DPS is greatly exaggerated. I haven't seen anything that has convinced me one way or the other although I would lean towards Doji being better for zergs most of the time.

sooo.... i should make a Doji vs wasting my time camping shitty NMs like Buburimooooooo for Masa? Just tell me now, I'm already regretting this decision t o start.

So much ... wrong ...

First Masa with AM3 up ends up being single digit percentage ahead of Doji doing the exact same thing. Doji puts out stronger Fudos and Masa is relying entirely on AM3 procs to make up the damage difference, which is does but only barely. You are over exaggerating the difference. I'ts not "in a league all their own", it's less then ~8% in perfect ideal circumstances, and it's only SAM for a number of reasons. To give you an idea how this works, if you are doing a 3-hit with super buffs, that means one average melee attack round per WS will be x3 damage. Your attack rounds are what, 700~900 damage, maybe 1000. That's 2100~3000 on that ODT proc with 1400~2000 being the "extra" damage. So instead of a 20K Fudo you get a ~22K Fudo. Doji will do about 16~18% stronger Fudo's and so those ODT effects must make up the difference, and they do but only barely. Essentially you are relying on random multi-attacks causing you to get overflow and inflate your white damage weight.

DRK and Cada is more about DRK having access to better WSD then DA which values Torcleaver over Reso and then the difference is down to less then 5% under ideal Torc circumstances (this is a whole new discussion). If DRK had Lionheart then it would immediately jump to Reso up due to Reso having better TP scaling then Torc.

And please stop looking at ODT crits, that's the same as "eyeballing" damage. On SAM your crit rate is about 10~15% (5 base + 5 merits + 0~5 through gear) on anything worth a damn. That gives you 5~7 "super crits" out of 100 swings and approximately 25~30 WS's depending on how slow you are to hit the WS macro.

is there an aeonic brd who doesn't have daurdabla? not counting members of groups on their 9th rotation and someone picks up a Marsyas because they don't want to level BST?

If using last stand, Armageddon only beats Fomalhaut in very specific scenario - Start with AM3 or at least get 3000 tp fast, have strong AM3 up/down tp sets, and NM can't take light SC damage well. Anytime that SC damage is relevant Fomalhaut almost always win: On spreadsheet and parse Arma is about 5% ahead with AM3, but SC dmg often worth 20% or 30% of dps, easily make up the difference.

Arma is really more of a wildfire weapon, you either use wildfire and use Arma or you don't. This scenario applies to Dp.

Fomalhaut also opens up ability to multi step radiance. A fomalhaut COR can solo zerg Ou for last 10%, I don't see dp and Arma can do that kind of damage like Fomalhaut can. This applies to other multi step friendly aeonic such as katana, GK, polearm, GA and scythe.

***is situational like always, one gear may shine in one specific scenario but that doesn't mean it's better than others. If leaden salute is all you ever use of course "dp is better". If alliance with 5 DD is all you ever bring SAM to then of course "Masa is better". Ejiin did post 5 min kei video as solo dd with Doji though.

If making a Dojikiri is easier or more convenient, sure. But if you want to take SAM as far as you possibly can, Masamune might be worth the investment. As is being stated, Masamune isn't exactly a giant leap in DPS.

YES me! way to point out my fail!

From a RNG perspective, I'm quite impressed with the Arma AM3+Camouflague in white damage over WS scenarios. But if I'm using Last Stand, its gonna be the Fomalhaut all day. That weapon is incredibly broken among the aeonics, I would argue top 3. (BRD and RUN the other two in my opinion) Arma to me, in terms of a RNG's eyes, seems like the middle ground between a foma and gastra- the power and correct delay to be effective for physical weaponskills/TP buildup and some extra macc and that agi boost for helping its TF numbers reach a gastra's.

Do you have a group that can do Aeonics? Masa is the "best" for pure Fudo spam, but as I've discussed above it's not a very significant difference. Masa users like to scream about it because their "real SAM's" and it somehow makes them better then those "scrub SAMs" who just got a Dojin. Ultimately Sephiroth use's it and that's why they want to do it.

Aeonic shield is the most useless Shield for PLD if you already have Aegis and Ochain.. theres a lot of useless Aeonics as well as useless Relics/empy/Mythic as well the best of their kind. It's no brainer =_=;;