Random Politics & Religion #19

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Random Politics & Religion #19
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By Yatenkou 2017-02-23 17:46:45
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Project Veritas has been getting DDoS'd a lot today because of the "CNN Leaks" BUT they did get their stuff up. Note that this stuff is allegedly from 2009 at the Atlanta HQ for CNN, I'll let you guys decide what to think of it, I for one haven't listened to any of it yet because I'm at work, but this stuff has apparently been talked about on the internet for the last week or so.

http://projectveritas.com/2017/02/21/cnnleaks-part-i/
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2017-02-23 17:49:06
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The main argument against Obama's order was that it should be left to the state to decide. How is what I said a strawman?
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-02-23 17:51:57
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Yatenkou said: »
Project Veritas has been getting DDoS'd a lot today because of the "CNN Leaks" BUT they did get their stuff up. Note that this stuff is allegedly from 2009 at the Atlanta HQ for CNN, I'll let you guys decide what to think of it, I for one haven't listened to any of it yet because I'm at work, but this stuff has apparently been talked about on the internet for the last week or so.

http://projectveritas.com/2017/02/21/cnnleaks-part-i/
Didn't take long for various sources to go ahead and tie the leaks to Donald Trump, stating that Donald Trump is directly involved.
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 Shiva.Shruiken
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By Shiva.Shruiken 2017-02-23 17:53:04
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In the vein of states' rights, Spicer said in a press conference today “I do believe that you’ll see greater enforcement of it” regarding federal laws against recreational marijuana.

Goes against what Trump said on the campaign trail;
Quote:
"In terms of marijuana and legalization, I think that should be a state issue, state-by-state," Trump told The Washington Post. "… Marijuana is such a big thing. I think medical should happen — right? Don’t we agree? I think so. And then I really believe we should leave it up to the states."
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-02-23 17:53:43
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
The main argument against Obama's order was that it should be left to the state to decide. How is what I said a strawman?
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
I recall the sale of black people at one time being the state's decision.
And don't say I altered your quote, cause I didn't.

Who's suggesting that Trump's Admin is indirectly advocating slavery again?
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2017-02-23 17:56:51
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So you didn't understand what I wrote. Could have just started with that.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-02-23 18:11:44
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Well, if you get your head out of your posterior
In robotics that's "remove your sensory cluster from your waste chute."
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-02-23 18:17:19
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Aww.... poor little Donald found out he can't be a dictator...

FBI Refused WH Request To Refute Stories About Russian Contact
TPM picked up from CNN

Quote:
CNN reported Thursday that the FBI and other federal agencies rejected the White House’s request to refute stories about contact between members of the Trump campaign and Russian nationals, including members of the Russian intelligence community.

CNN's report was based on multiple unnamed U.S. officials briefed on the matter.

The New York Times and CNN reported last week that members of the Trump campaign and Russian nationals were in repeated contact during the campaign.

Trump affiliates mentioned in the Times’ story all denied that they knowingly had untoward contact with Russians during the campaign. Roger Stone later denied any contact categorically.

CNN reported that contact between the White House and FBI began on Feb. 15, the day after the stories were published. FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe and White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus spoke about the story on the sidelines of a meeting about an unrelated matter, according to the network.

The White House pushed back on CNN's characterization of the exchange. McCabe apparently told Spicer that the reports were overstated, an unnamed White House official told CNN.

The network reported that FBI Director James Comey refused to tamp down on the stories publicly, because the contacts between Trump campaign staff and Russians is the subject of an ongoing investigation.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-02-23 18:35:48
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
I recall the sale of black people at one time being the state's decision.

I'm certainly glad no atrocities have ever been committed by the federal government, because that would make your argument 100% pointless.
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2017-02-23 19:15:12
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Huh?

Spelling it out: the federal government should be able to exercise its authority to protect vulnerable groups from discrimination and harassment because while sympathizers are waiting for normalization and empathy to develop, the affected people are still forced to navigate unwarranted hostilities.
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By 2017-02-23 19:37:51
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By Bahamut.Omael 2017-02-23 19:39:18
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Spelling it out: the federal government should be able to exercise its authority to protect vulnerable groups from discrimination and harassment because while sympathizers are waiting for normalization and empathy to develop, the affected people are still forced to navigate unwarranted hostilities.

Counterpoint: If letting transgendered people use the bathroom is so bad, can't the states just run away?
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 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2017-02-23 20:22:07
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Ninja data validation on that word is hilarious.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-02-23 20:33:48
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Huh?

Spelling it out: the federal government should be able to exercise its authority to protect vulnerable groups from discrimination and harassment because while sympathizers are waiting for normalization and empathy to develop, the affected people are still forced to navigate unwarranted hostilities.
So, are you saying that, by allowing the states to decide how to handle children using bathrooms, this will revert the US back to slavery?

That is your argument, don't forget.
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 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2017-02-23 21:05:57
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Let's see if I got this right

He's saying that sometimes, to protect people in cases such as discrimination, the federal government should decide on things and not the states because it would take far too long.

Correct me if I'm wrong Pleebo
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2017-02-23 21:23:48
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Nah, totes the slavery thing.
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 Shiva.Shruiken
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By Shiva.Shruiken 2017-02-23 21:50:10
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Discrimination isn't a states' right issue, and there's plenty of Supreme Court rulings to back that up.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2017-02-23 22:03:11
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And of course, there is zero discrimination involved in any of this so would you care to try again with a valid point?
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 Shiva.Shruiken
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By Shiva.Shruiken 2017-02-23 22:14:15
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I'd give you a dignified response Amanda, but regretfully I don't know how to write in braille.
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2017-02-24 00:06:40
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Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
And of course, there is zero discrimination involved in any of this so would you care to try again with a valid point?

Just all those backwards states that don't comply with the latest in liberal thought crime.
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 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2017-02-24 02:43:05
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Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
And of course, there is zero discrimination involved in any of this so would you care to try again with a valid point?

You gtfo this website until I get my $50.
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By fonewear 2017-02-24 05:46:38
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Is this the transgender discussion we had already ? What year is this ?
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By fonewear 2017-02-24 05:49:15
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Don't worry about it Caitlyn is going to talk to Trump about the ratings of the latest Keeping up with the Kardashian's


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4255098/Caitlyn-Jenner-hits-Donald-Trump.html
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By Shiva.Shruiken 2017-02-24 08:07:49
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fonewear said: »
Is this the transgender discussion we had already ? What year is this ?

lets get to the pressing issues

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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-02-24 08:22:34
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Bismarck.Dracondria said: »
Let's see if I got this right

He's saying that sometimes, to protect people in cases such as discrimination, the federal government should decide on things and not the states because it would take far too long.

Correct me if I'm wrong Pleebo
Except that's not what he said. But please, continue to defend that strawman Pleebo created.

I mean, your point would be valid if Pleebo didn't start off by inferring slavery into the argument (which is the strawman).
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2017-02-24 08:25:01
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Just because you want to invaldate a valid point because you either don't understand it or you just heard slavery and threw your hands up in a tizzy doesn't make it any less valid...
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-02-24 08:35:04
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Just because you want to invaldate a valid point because you either don't understand it or you just heard slavery and threw your hands up in a tizzy doesn't make it any less valid...
I give that troll attempt 4/10.

While expected, it's somewhat middle of the road. You could do better, but then again, you have to understand what was said first.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-02-24 08:38:24
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Study: Most Americans Think They’re Better Than Everyone Else

This applies to everyone here.

Quote:
President Trump inherited an incredibly divided nation; one that daily demonstrates it has little interest in becoming less so. In fact, the one thing people can agree on is that there is a lot of disagreement.

In William McKenzie’s interview with Arthur Brooks, “How Americans Can Live, and Thrive, with Intense Political Disagreement,” Brooks argues that competition between differing ideologies is not only productive and necessary, it’s the mark of a healthy society. Vigorous disagreement is the process through which we recognize ideas as valid and distinct, provoking people to reason through and advance ideological positions while considering counterpoints presented by the opposing side.

“Liberals should be liberals. Conservatives should be conservatives. We should not be bashful about smart, strong disagreements about which public policies are the best instruments for helping more people access freedom, prosperity and the pursuit of their happiness,” Brooks says.

In a society governed by the people, for the people, wrestling with various ideological paradigms is how we arrive at optimal consensus and maximum freedom. This is why Brooks advocates for “localism” as a way to prevent national policies that are insensitive to the regional issues affecting Americans where they work and live.

So if diversity of thought is such a good policy objective, why are we currently experiencing such an incredible resistance to it? Across the political spectrum there is pushback against even the hint that perhaps we should move past the emotional upset of the election and towards the myriad other policy issues that could benefit from honest, sincere input from both parties.

A New Study Suggests an Answer

One possible explanation for how we became such an ideologically entrenched society may be found in Ben Tappin and Ryan McKay’s study on moral superiority. The two researchers took on the challenge of studying beliefs of moral superiority to better understand how this phenomenon relates to conflict and conflict resolution.

“Most people believe they are just, virtuous, and moral,” they write. “These beliefs demand scientific attention for several reasons. For one, in contrast to other domains of positive self-belief, they likely contribute to the severity of human conflict. When opposing sides are convinced of their own righteousness, escalation of violence is more probable, and the odds of resolution are ominously low.”

One doesn’t have to click many times to find real-life evidence of escalating violence, unapologetic self-righteousness, and lack of interest in resolving what ails the country. Americans have a moral superiority problem. A central feature of moral superiority, also known as “self-enhancement,” is irrational thinking.

A key finding of the study was almost all of its 270 subjects “irrationally inflated their moral qualities.” So not only do most people have feelings of moral superiority, they are completely unfounded. The strength of self-enhanced beliefs varies across the moral spectrum. Participants felt more strongly about their moral superiority in areas like honesty, as opposed to competence or intelligence.

Moral Superiority Isn’t Linked to Self-Esteem

The second key finding was that self-enhanced feelings of superiority were not linked to high self-esteem, as previously thought. Anyone, regardless of personal estimation, can jettison reason in believing in his or her lofty moral station. The authors attribute the almost universal findings of moral superiority to participants’ strong sense of personal virtue accompanied by an irrational view of how moral others are in comparison.

President George W. Bush captured this concept beautifully during his speech at the Dallas police memorial: “Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.”

Although the authors’ conclusions suggest the self-enhancement phenomenon is “robust and widespread,” they don’t evaluate whether this is a good or bad thing, or why people believe it in the first place. In light of current and ongoing conflicts among the various factions in our society I think it’s reasonable to suggest widespread self-enhanced thinking certainly isn’t helping.

Furthermore, the negative aggregate social effects of thinking so highly of oneself and so poorly of others should give us all pause. Absent some pretty powerful motivation, I don’t kid myself that people will spontaneously choose to become less self-centered and high-minded. But I do think bringing attention to this issue and understanding irrational moral superiority as a part of the problem helps move us in right direction.

This can help us get closer to an ideological marketplace where our opinions and beliefs are examined and debated based on the strength of the argument, and not discounted out-of-hand simply because we don’t like who said them, what group they belong to, or for whom they voted.

Give Opponents the Benefit of the Doubt

For us to sustain a thriving marketplace of honest, productive ideas, Brooks says we need two things: “First, it does require real, hot intellectual firefights over particular public policy questions. But second, it require us to remember that more often than not, both sides are aiming at the same moral consensus, on which the vast majority of Americans hold in common.”

We will never understand we have common moral objectives, however, if we don’t first humble ourselves to accept that perhaps we are not morally superior, and perhaps we may have something to learn from listening to someone who thinks differently than we do. The troubling part of irrational self-enhancement is its potential to drive irrational behavior.

We see this on college campuses all over the country. Guided by a skewed moral compass, students are shutting down free speech, and in some cases even the pretense of free speech. The escalating effort to moralize everyone’s beliefs and actions is being waged by individuals who haven’t an accurate understanding of their own moral failings. The real tragedy in all this is if we don’t start getting a grip on our misguided sense of grandeur, there won’t be a marketplace left in which ideas can compete.

Incoming dismissal of points because of hurt feels, where the source came from, or outright denial.
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