Ambuscade Volume 1 Discussion - January 2017

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Ambuscade Volume 1 Discussion - January 2017
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 Asura.Hitome
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By Asura.Hitome 2017-01-11 13:22:55
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In an attempt to break away from the megathread we have stickied which has become quite long, I'd like to start creating two separate threads each month.

Here is the data from the other thread that has been gathered thus far. Sorry if I missed something but feel free to reiterate/quote below.

Regarding skillsets

Carbuncle.Papesse said: »
Beat Difficult Intense but it was a PD/Conduit zerg with Mewing Lullaby spam... certainly not the intended way to win. These mobs have low hp, one single Volt Strike can remove 25~65% of their life but they have a ton of awful attacks :
Raqs Baladi Dance : AoE Gaze Charm + Burn
Blight Dance : AoE Gaze Petrification + 200~300 HP/tick Poison
Petrifying Dance : AoE Gaze Terror
Chastening Disregard : AoE Gaze Amnesia
Imperiling Disregard : AoE Petrification + 5 seconds Doom
Divine Retribution : AoE that reduces HP to 1, cannot kill. PDT and EA/Scherzo work, it's pretty much the physical version of Zero Hour.

Frigg and Skhati will quickly repop after being killed if Freyja is still alive, Freyja doesn't repop.
They EES at the same time.
Geo debuffs work.

Bismarck.Keityan said: »
Also, for people that were trying to figure out if GEO can be used to Attunement/Vex through the gaze moves. Our PLD used Fealty, and all gaze status effects were _still_ applied on the PLD. Even tried charm resist gear. Nothing works that we have tried but let us know if you were able to find anything.

With better latency, we believe that any 3 DPS and 3 supports can win if they reacted to the gaze/countergaze moves. (Probably an easy BC for JP players).

I can consistently turn away from all TP moves. The issues occur when the "countergaze-disregard" moves where the server registered me to be still away even though I already turned back to its face. I've only been able to pull it off turning back to a disregard move <20% of the time. My teammates reported the same.

Phoenix.Erics said: »
killing main nm caused both sub nms to spam charm so they will need to be killed close to each others time since main NM can resummon the sub nms.

Asura.Theenabler said: »
It seems like charm can only be used either if aura is up, or if the MB is dead.

hobo said: »
Charm seems to be around 16 range.



Regarding strategy

Bismarck.Keityan said: »
Here we go! Complete D (Melee Version). Thank you all (Going to enter list here when I'm not so sleepy) that contributed to this strategy. This is a culmination of all findings and nuances of the battle found on FFXIAH as well as our own findings.

We made a generic strategy so that everyone can win. I will comment on our job choices so it is more clear to understand what we wanted to strategically achieve.

The Setup:
1. Tank (We used NIN or PLD)
2. Melee Piercing DPS (We used DNC/WAR)
3. DPS (We used NIN/WAR)
4. Healing Job with Stona (We used SCH/RDM)
5. BRD/WHM
6. Attack buffing support of your choice (We used GEO/WHM but something like a COR/WHM would also work)


General Battle Strategy:
Buffs: Protect/Shell/Phalanx/RegenV/March/March/Madrigal/Scherzo/Ballads
(Comments: Phalanx and Regen V aren't necessarily required but they are used to counter the Skathi's Poison/Petrify Gaze. Scherzo is for sudden hate changes during EES and would proc on DPS if caught off guard. It is not necessary with melees with good DT sets. A 3 song brd would probably work but for reference, we had a 4 song, Gjaller/Carn/Daurb/HonorMarch BRD.

Battle Layout
A triangle so that all mobs are ~20 distance away. You want to separate the mobs. This is the reason why a GEO is not preferred in this fight (We say BRD is the best choice) but we did use one as our #6th slot because it still provided enough debuffs and most importantly poisonas and stonas. We had one mob on the left pillar, one mob on the right pillar, and one mob was pulled to the start corner. The mages will be in the middle of it all and be >16 distance from all mobs. The Freyja must be faced away from the center of the triangle.

Battle Plan:
Freyja: Will be tanked and damaged by your top Melee Piercing DPS. We used DNC because of a combination of Fan Dance, skill-chains and survavibility. I could imagine a well geared THF can take this role or even a DRG. This player will be responsible for killing Freyja in increments of 25%. At 75%, 50%, and 25%, it will cause all mobs to use EES simultaneously. Only push the percentages when you are sure the other players will survive.

Frigg: Will do nothing but attack... until Freyja is dead. Then it will _immediately_ have huge regain and will spam a "Disregard" and Belly dance move. One melee will attack this mob from the start. The job of this melee is to drop the HP% where it will die in one WS and tank it. The other job of this DPS is to hold hate on this mob and eat the incoming EES every 25% increment. We chose NIN for this role because of Migiwari and the lack of slashing resistance on Frigg. This NIN should take 0 damage throughout the battle. Any DPS can do this role. It is just more hectic because three EES will occur simultaneously and all melees are separated (Can't utilize curaga). Once it reaches a low %, ~4%, communication must be made with the Freyja DPSer. Frigg will die 2nd. The moment that Freyja mob is about to be killed, the Frigg DPS player is turn his/her back because it will _immediately_ do a gaze charm move. After dodging the charm move, turn around and WS it to finish the 2nd mob. Disclaimer: If you turn your back too early, lamia will gain aura and go on a rampage. Timing to turn away from the Frigg is _critical_ and is to be minimized.

Skathi: The most important mob. We found that the best way to deal with this mob is to do nothing to it and always face it with a tank. NA latency is not fast enough in which you can react to the gaze vs the disregard move(need to face it). The disregard move on this mob is 5 tick doom and petrify. The gaze is a 300/tick poison and 1 minute petrify. ] If hate is lost on this NM, you will likely wipe. Do this mob last. A PLD or a NIN is best for this slot and we've used both. Once again, they need to eat a EES every 25%.

Mages will be in the middle of the triangle. Main healer should be curing the Main Piercing DPS (Freyja). There will be lots of Terror and Petrify on this mob. The other support players is to Poisona/Stona the player on the Skathi and support the DPS of the Freyja. If hate is reset, mages must look at the Lamia during the aura to remove the aura so that hate can resume to normal.

Quick Guidelines:
1. Position all 3 mobs in a triangle so that they are far away from each other.
2. Start DPSing the Freyja and Frigg. Tank Skathi without hitting it. With all 3, always face the mob (Do not attempt to turn)
3. Communicate with players about the 25% increments of Freyja. Communicate about migiwari timers (or DT sets and HP top off).
4. If Frigg is ~5%, and Freyja is <25%, you may now coordinate the final push. Get Freyja ready for the final WS in which it will die and then have the player with Frigg turn their back to Frigg. Kill Freyja. Frigg will attempt to charm. Once the charm attempt has registered, turn around and WS kill Frigg. If it doesn't die, don't panic. Face this mob only when it is readying a move that is not belly dance. (1 round of TP hits only) It has high regain at this state and will spam moves. Use that fact to avoid Belly dance.
5. At this point Frigg and Freyja are dead. Skathi gains a large attack boost. All 3 melees may now attack this mob. Do not try to avoid the gaze moves, always look towards the mob. The only move that is fearful is the gaze move which does 300/tick poison and petrify. With 3 mages, this is a piece of cake. If melees have remedy/antidotes, a stona removes the petrify and the players can use an antidote/remedy. If your mages are fast, you won't even need that.

@engage to last death = <5 minutes.

I'm too tired right now to write the guide for the VD Melee strategy. We did win on VD as well without SP and I might write that one up tomorrow.

Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: »
Spamming VD Intense with 5x PUP and COR. Cor mule rolls companions and Beast, then you ignore him. Two pups target each add and a single PUP OD burns the main. It will be dead long before OD is off, so the OD Pup helps finish off the adds. With a good group it takes about five minutes. Switching to COR after the battle to Cutting cards yourself means you don't ever need to reset SPs.


Bismarck.Keityan said: »
We killed it on Difficult last night a few more times last night and we think have a strategy using similar mechanism as the melee zerg strat that I had described. We are still refining this strategy since it has its kinks, when we make sure it works all the time, I'll post again with a detailed strategy.

Other findings:
1. We're 100% sure that EES is synced to the Freyja(Middle). Once the Freyja(Middle) is pushed to 75%, all 3 will do EES. It will do it again at 50% and 25%. This particular EES is strange as I'm pretty sure it bypasses Utsusemi/Third Eye. Migiwari works however. You need to top off the melees before you push the main one under these %'s. Scherzo works and can be considered. Unfortunately, only Frigg(Left) is weak to slashing so unless your NIN uses daggers, katana damage is sub-optimal.

2. NA latency sucks. While you need to turn _away_ for most of the TP moves, the "disregard" moves need to be done taken facing the mob. The Skathi(Right) seems to give us the most problems. If you had turned away in reaction to the red lines, realize it's s a "disregard move" and turn back towards the mob, it's already too late and you will be hit with 5 count doom/petrify. If you do not turn for the regular moves, you will be hate reset with a petrify and a 300/tick poison. (I personally think that the aura comes up if you do not successfully dodge a gaze-TP move, this needs to be confirmed)

3. In difficult, the Frigg(Left) doesn't do anything until the Freyja(Middle) dies. Then it will spam charm (which can only happen if you're facing the mob). On VE, none of the lamia do anything, not even the 25% increment EES. I suspect that the difficulty is based upon the types of moves that the lamia will do.

4. Confirming Papesse's previous post, Skathi(Right) is simply slashing resistant. All other damage types do full damage. Frigg(Left) has no slashing resistances. We still prefer piercing on the Freyja(Middle) and we run with piercing with the Freyja(Middle)/Skathi(Right) and slashing on Frigg(Left).

Edit: Changed the names.

Also, if you plan on trying this NM, bring antidotes and holy waters.
Also, if you get silenced, it's not silence, it's Mute.

Carbuncle.Papesse said: »
Freyja and Skathi (Medusa type mobs) are both very resistant to slashing while Frigg (Merrow) doesn't appear to have any particuliar resistance. In Difficult Volt Strike does the same amount of dmg on all when pdif is capped. In VE Mountain Buster (blunt) does about 18k~ on all and Spinning Dive (slashing) does 9k~ on Freyja/Skathi (these 2 BPs have almost the same power at 0 TP), Crescant Fang (piercing) does 4k~ on all.
Something worth knowing is that Medusa, Gurfurlur and Gulool (the ones in the strongholds, nyzul and PW/TC forms) have all a high damage reduction to slashing, the Gulool and Gurfurlur versions in Ambuscade didn't have it though.

Asura.Hitome said: »
Divine Retribution = needs further testing but...damage done may equate to how many people are hit by the gaze attacks (petrify/terror) or petrifaction.
Divine Retribution is a Throat Stab type move.

Jumeya said: »
The only issue I see here is that with the 3 together, it'll be pretty impossible to avoid/look at gazes when you need to/don't need too and you'll suffer from doom/petra/poison applications and nasty terrors.

It has been suggested that between Flabra, barstonra, barpetra and geo vex, that the application on the gaze moves are low.

If it is so, then a tank can ignore the disregards and just stay facing away for the entire fight.

Bismarck.Keityan said: »
Beat Difficult intense using
SAM
DRK
DNC
GEO
GEO
WHM

DNC: Middle
DRK: Left
SAM: Right
GEO1: Fury/Torpor/Wilt
GEO2: Attunement/Vex/Haste
WHM: Cures/Stona

No two hours used.

We theorized that as long as you keep hitting the mob, the aura stays down. We attacked all 3 individually until they were all around 20-30%. Once ready, the DNC killed the main lamina (Middle) and then within 30 seconds kill the other two links asap. Hate stayed on the 3 melees since they were constantly hitting them.

We also think we notice some sort of weapon type weakness. Right seems to take less slashing damage and we've tested with MNK and we think that blunt/piercing doesn't take such a penalty on the right one. The main one was taking 500 per hit from daggers and 40-60k Rudra's.

Asura.Saevel said: »
Skathi is weak to Blunt, was doing 20K Judgements on my WAR. Also this seems easily done on D/VD but everyone needs to work together, WHM's can't be chilling in the back watching Video's.

Also note, the middle is weak to piercing, our THF was doing 40K Rudra's and 16K Eviscerations on it. We died because the WHM was kinda dumb and very casual about curing people and stood the entire time with their back turned out of cure range of the THF. Also if your using melee don't go running in engaged, let someone aggro and position them first. They don't really do anything until their HP drops under 100%.

hobo said: »
I had a rather messy party for D but it was working. 3 pups, 2 smn and a Cor. Each pup took a mob away, didn't ever see the aura being a problem.

Would like to see it being done with a run or pld super tanking instead but that is for another time.

Ruaumoko said: »
Volt Strike absolutely flattens the Lamia.

Going to try optimize the setup for kill speed but it looks like SMN might be ruling the roost again this month. BLM might be do-able as well so will try that as well.



Regarding Lamia locations

There is a survival guide in Arrapago Reef. To get to it, you can use a VW warp or proceed east from Ilrusi Atoll staging point.

Odin.Llewelyn said: »
The Survival Guide near Nuhn might work. Don't remember how many Lamia are near the Experimental Lamia pop spot, though.

Verda said: »
Lamia supply is to say the least, terrible. Taken to doing Deserter Assault from Ilrusi, there's 12 lamia on that map.
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By Anna Ruthven 2017-01-11 15:23:05
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Stickied.
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 Carbuncle.Papesse
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By Carbuncle.Papesse 2017-01-11 18:04:31
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VD Intense
2 new things :
-Frigg can now use Raqs Baladi Dance (Charmga+Burn) at 100% hp even when Freyja is alive, she spam it and Chastening Disregard (Amnesia+Mute) non-stop when low hp.
- They EES 3 times each, it's still Freyja who gives the order.
Frigg is the main threat, if you look at her you get Charm or Amnesia/Mute, if you don't the aura pop and her hate become wonky. Fealty/Pflug didn't work and the move is very fast. She will respawn almost instantly if killed first.

We have beat VD several times without SPs with :
PLD/WAR WHM SMN SMN GEO (Refresh+Frailty+Entrust Wilt) COR (Beast+Drachen SMNs, Gallant for himself)
Our kill order is Freyja > Frigg > Skathi
PLD aggro then Flash Freyja and Provoke Skathi, COR Flash Frigg and tank her in a corner with a PDT set (far from the PLD). COR will likely get charmed at a moment but it's still better than having the PLD charmed first. SMNs kill Freyja in <1min with Apogee Volt Strike. WHM heal both COR and PLD.
Things are more simple once Freyja is dead, Ramuh x2 can tank Frigg np and are immune to her two dances. None of us is looking at Frigg when we start to attack her because a wonky hate/aura is still better than Charmga+Burn.
Once it's just Skathi alone it's very easy, just tell the PLD to save Flash or Provoke for after Divine Retribution (reset hate), people must look at her if she move toward someone else to prevent aura and Imperiling Disregard.
Fight lasts 5~7 min, 1~2 min if I use Astral Conduit. I think it would be a joke with a PUP who hold Frigg. COR and PLD use low dmg weapon.
Freyja has 200k~ HP, Frigg 150k~ and Skathi 170k~ HP.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2017-01-11 20:52:23
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Spamming VD Intense with 5x PUP and COR. Cor mule rolls companions and Beast, then you ignore him. Two pups target each add and a single PUP OD burns the main. It will be dead long before OD is off, so the OD Pup helps finish off the adds. With a good group it takes about five minutes. Switching to COR after the battle to Cutting cards yourself means you don't ever need to reset SPs.
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By Bahamut.Tychefm 2017-01-11 20:55:09
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https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Cutting_Cards
 Asura.Hitome
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By Asura.Hitome 2017-01-11 22:00:41
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Any idea what kind of damage Retribution is? Magic or physical?

So far we've tried:

PLD WHM BLU BLU GEO GEO

1x GEO uses Barrier/Wilt to mitigate the EES at 25% intervals
1x GEO uses Frail/Prec
PLD supertanks the adds without much problem

2x BLU take main boss down to <25% to mitigate the 3 EES phases and then switch up to the adds. One BLU uses clubs on Skathi while the other takes Frigg down. I was the BLU on Frigg so I just melee'd Freyja down while using TP on the Frigg. Got them all to around ~3%.

After this point, ***goes south fast. Upon killing Freyja, Frigg uses instantaneous charm called Raqs Baladi Dance. So our plan was to have one melee get charmed and have the PLD tank him afterwards (or sleep him). After, we would zerg down the Skathi and then Frigg.

Problem is the Frigg is a nightmare for melee with divine retribution's constant heavy AoE damage + threat reset and Petrifying Dance's terror + threat reset. Petrifaction also was causing a few problems. They just spam TP move after TP move after Freyja dies.

Not very melee friendly but would definitely like advice on refining our strategy.
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2017-01-12 05:48:10
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Here we go! Complete D (Melee Version). Thank you all (Going to enter list here when I'm not so sleepy) that contributed to this strategy. This is a culmination of all findings and nuances of the battle found on FFXIAH as well as our own findings.

We made a generic strategy so that everyone can win. I will comment on our job choices so it is more clear to understand what we wanted to strategically achieve. Skip to the last section "Quick Guidelines" for the quick and dirty run down.

The Setup:
1. Tank (We used NIN or PLD)
2. Melee Piercing DPS (We used DNC/WAR)
3. DPS (We used NIN/WAR)
4. Healing Job with Stona (We used SCH/RDM)
5. BRD/WHM
6. Attack buffing support of your choice (We used GEO/WHM but something like a COR/WHM would also work)


General Battle Strategy:
Buffs: Protect/Shell/Phalanx/RegenV/March/March/Madrigal/Scherzo/Ballads
(Comments: Phalanx and Regen V aren't necessarily required but they are used to counter the Skathi's Poison/Petrify Gaze. Scherzo is for sudden hate changes during EES and would proc on DPS if caught off guard. It is not necessary with melees with good DT sets. A 3 song brd would probably work but for reference, we had a 4 song, Gjaller/Carn/Daurb/HonorMarch BRD.

Battle Layout
A triangle so that all mobs are ~20 distance away. You want to separate the mobs. This is the reason why a GEO is not preferred in this fight (We say BRD is the best choice) but we did use one as our #6th slot because it still provided enough debuffs and most importantly poisonas and stonas. We had one mob on the left pillar, one mob on the right pillar, and one mob was pulled to the start corner. The mages will be in the middle of it all and be >16 distance from all mobs. The Freyja must be faced away from the center of the triangle.

Battle Plan:
Freyja: Will be tanked and damaged by your top Melee Piercing DPS. We used DNC because of a combination of Fan Dance, skill-chains and survavibility. I could imagine a well geared THF can take this role or even a DRG. This player will be responsible for killing Freyja in increments of 25%. At 75%, 50%, and 25%, it will cause all mobs to use EES simultaneously. Only push the percentages when you are sure the other players will survive.

Frigg: Will do nothing but attack... until Freyja is dead. Then it will _immediately_ have huge regain and will spam a "Disregard" and Belly dance move. One melee will attack this mob from the start. The job of this melee is to drop the HP% where it will die in one WS and tank it. The other job of this DPS is to hold hate on this mob and eat the incoming EES every 25% increment. We chose NIN for this role because of Migiwari and the lack of slashing resistance on Frigg. This NIN should take 0 damage throughout the battle. Any DPS can do this role. It is just more hectic because three EES will occur simultaneously and all melees are separated (Can't utilize curaga). Once it reaches a low %, ~4%, communication must be made with the Freyja DPSer. Frigg will die 2nd. The moment that Freyja mob is about to be killed, the Frigg DPS player is turn his/her back because it will _immediately_ do a gaze charm move. After dodging the charm move, turn around and WS it to finish the 2nd mob. Disclaimer: If you turn your back too early, lamia will gain aura and go on a rampage. Timing to turn away from the Frigg is _critical_ and is to be minimized.

Skathi: The most important mob. We found that the best way to deal with this mob is to do nothing to it and always face it with a tank. NA latency is not fast enough in which you can react to the gaze vs the disregard move(need to face it). The disregard move on this mob is 5 tick doom and petrify. The gaze is a 300/tick poison and 1 minute petrify. ] If hate is lost on this NM, you will likely wipe. Do this mob last. A PLD or a NIN is best for this slot and we've used both. Once again, they need to eat a EES every 25%.

Mages will be in the middle of the triangle. Main healer should be curing the Main Piercing DPS (Freyja). There will be lots of Terror and Petrify on this mob. The other support players is to Poisona/Stona the player on the Skathi and support the DPS of the Freyja. If hate is reset, mages must look at the Lamia during the aura to remove the aura so that hate can resume to normal.

Quick Guidelines:
1. Position all 3 mobs in a triangle so that they are far away from each other.
2. Start DPSing the Freyja and Frigg. Tank Skathi without hitting it. With all 3, always face the mob (Do not attempt to turn)
3. Communicate with players about the 25% increments of Freyja. Communicate about migiwari timers (or DT sets and HP top off).
4. If Frigg is ~5%, and Freyja is <25%, you may now coordinate the final push. Get Freyja ready for the final WS in which it will die and then have the player with Frigg turn their back to Frigg. Kill Freyja. Frigg will attempt to charm. Once the charm attempt has registered, turn around and WS kill Frigg. If it doesn't die, don't panic. Face this mob only when it is readying a move that is not belly dance. (1 round of TP hits only) It has high regain at this state and will spam moves. Use that fact to avoid Belly dance.
5. At this point Frigg and Freyja are dead. Skathi gains a large attack boost. All 3 melees may now attack this mob. Do not try to avoid the gaze moves, always look towards the mob. The only move that is fearful is the gaze move which does 300/tick poison and petrify. With 3 mages, this is a piece of cake. If melees have remedy/antidotes, a stona removes the petrify and the players can use an antidote/remedy. If your mages are fast, you won't even need that.

@engage to last death = <5 minutes.

I'm too tired right now to write the guide for the VD Melee strategy. We did win on VD as well without SP and I might write that one up tomorrow.
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2017-01-12 06:06:40
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Also, for people that were trying to figure out if GEO can be used to Attunement/Vex through the gaze moves. Our PLD used Fealty, and all gaze status effects were _still_ applied on the PLD. Even tried charm resist gear. Nothing works that we have tried but let us know if you were able to find anything.

With better latency, we believe that any 3 DPS and 3 supports can win if they reacted to the gaze/countergaze moves. (Probably an easy BC for JP players).

I can consistently turn away from all TP moves. The issues occur when the "countergaze-disregard" moves where the server registered me to be still away even though I already turned back to its face. I've only been able to pull it off turning back to a disregard move <20% of the time. My teammates reported the same.
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2017-01-12 06:22:10
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Carbuncle.Papesse said: »
- They EES 3 times each, it's still Freyja who gives the order.

On VD, we found that EES can occur more than once after 25%. We've had it go off once at 15% and then another at 10%.
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-01-12 06:24:24
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Wouldn't mage/pet setup be easier for this? Anybody tried?
Well there's the strat Papesse posted for Pets I guess.

Would PUP tank work? I guess no because the second you Deploy the adds would go for the Master and not for the Automaton, correct?
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By Ruaumoko 2017-01-12 08:20:56
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Well damn, they made a fight where GEO is pretty much inferior to BRD and COR.

Well I never.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-01-12 08:25:56
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the amount of latency arguments is ridiculous

your position is only transmitted every 350ms, ping to servers should be under 50ms from any ISP in any civilized country

luck plays a much bigger part than latency(if you turn immediately after the last position update, you get a 300+ms delay, while if its timed properly it goes out nearly instantly)
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2017-01-12 12:43:06
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Wouldn't mage/pet setup be easier for this? Anybody tried?

I posted above how we do it with 5x PUP and a COR. Tbh, you don't even really need the COR. It's an absurdly easy fight with PUPs.
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By Lakshmi.Konvict 2017-01-12 12:45:09
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SCH new one hour does not work for this fight, figures.
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2017-01-12 12:48:08
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
the amount of latency arguments is ridiculous

your position is only transmitted every 350ms, ping to servers should be under 50ms from any ISP in any civilized country

luck plays a much bigger part than latency(if you turn immediately after the last position update, you get a 300+ms delay, while if its timed properly it goes out nearly instantly)

Only quoting this because more real numbers like this need to be used to disprove myths. The strat posted is much appreciated, but let's not get bogged down with things that aren't really in play. Your own personal ISP and quality of your home router probably have more to do with how fast things are getting to you than crossing an ocean does.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-01-12 13:07:10
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Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: »
Spamming VD Intense with 5x PUP and COR. Cor mule rolls companions and Beast, then you ignore him. Two pups target each add and a single PUP OD burns the main. It will be dead long before OD is off, so the OD Pup helps finish off the adds. With a good group it takes about five minutes. Switching to COR after the battle to Cutting cards yourself means you don't ever need to reset SPs.
Sorry Trulu, missed your post the first time.
I don't get the necessity of 2 pets on the adds.
Wouldn't this strategy work with 3x tanking PUPs and 3x whatever else?

Like:
2x SMN and a COR
1x SMN, a COR and a GEO
1x SMN, 1x BST, 1 COR

etc etc


Which frame/attachment setup do you suggest anyway? With this approach each puppet will eat 1x EES each instead of having all 3 EES concentrated on the same target?
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By Verda 2017-01-12 13:46:05
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I live in the US the best latency I've ever gotten is ~152ms to the ips the game is listed as being connected to in resource monitor. 300ms to 500ms isn't unheard of for me either on a bad day :/ And that's with no other network traffic. I get 20ms ping to google... and from playing lots of FPS games over the years I know even one country away can make your ping go over 100ms and once you start getting to that point you have a pretty big disadvantage. While I don't encourage ppl to just blame latency or something, I also think 50ms isn't very reasonable to obtain in FFXI if you live overseas.





I'm not endorsing blaming latency for anything ever, but I do think 150ms - 300ms is a lot more in line with what i've experienced, using multiple ISPs.
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By Verda 2017-01-12 14:00:28
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Also, the answer to this fight is obviously just a giant well polished shield:



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 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2017-01-12 15:06:48
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Sorry Trulu, missed your post the first time.
I don't get the necessity of 2 pets on the adds.
Wouldn't this strategy work with 3x tanking PUPs and 3x whatever else?

Like:
2x SMN and a COR
1x SMN, a COR and a GEO
1x SMN, 1x BST, 1 COR

etc etc


Which frame/attachment setup do you suggest anyway? With this approach each puppet will eat 1x EES each instead of having all 3 EES concentrated on the same target?


2x PUP lets you ignore the enmity mechanics of the fight entirely and just beat everything to death. You can use whatever you like, it doesn't particularly matter so long as the PUPs you have tanking know what they are doing. SMNs and BSTs can get into AoE range though, and their pets aren't as durable as Automatons. With PUP you just deploy, run away, maintain maneuvers until everything is dead. Two of our PUPs didn't even have 1200jp and it didn't matter.

EES is totally irrelevant to Automatons, I didn't realize it was even something happening in this fight until I read what other people were saying. These things aren't going to kill you, they are hella weak. I've been using VE/SS, AP4, ARK4, MJ4, OF1+2, Attuner, TS4, Coiler 1+2, TC 1+2, Inhibitor II. I change out Inhibitor for strobe when not ODing.
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 Leviathan.Stamos
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By Leviathan.Stamos 2017-01-12 15:09:17
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I don't think I even know four other PUPs on my server. The struggle is real.
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-01-12 15:30:42
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Leviathan.Stamos said: »
I don't think I even know four other PUPs on my server. The struggle is real.
Yeah it's why I was asking for alternatives.


Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: »
2x PUP lets you ignore the enmity mechanics of the fight entirely and just beat everything to death.
Care to elaborate? I haven't tried the fight yet, I don't understand this line D:

Thanks for the rest of the tips ^^
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By knoxvegas 2017-01-12 15:44:39
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Jp rng strat looks pretty easy when pld holds hate
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2017-01-12 16:36:21
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
the amount of latency arguments is ridiculous

your position is only transmitted every 350ms, ping to servers should be under 50ms from any ISP in any civilized country

luck plays a much bigger part than latency(if you turn immediately after the last position update, you get a 300+ms delay, while if its timed properly it goes out nearly instantly)
Straight line from east coast US to Japan is around 6.5-7k miles. At 0.6c (typical speed of light through fiber), that's 60+ms even disregarding processing time on any hops or repeaters. Double that for ping and you get 120 ms bare minimum, and 150+ is completely realistic.
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-01-12 16:38:48
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Using the 3 servers Verda used, I'm averaging ~290 ms
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By hobo 2017-01-12 16:49:12
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So not super tanking, actively holding all 3? Other than that I didn't see anything special, apart from the cor trying to sleep with a light shot
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By Carbuncle.Papesse 2017-01-12 16:51:50
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Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: »
SMNs and BSTs can get into AoE range though, and their pets aren't as durable as Automatons.
SMNs can Assault/BP without being in range of AoEs and Ramuh is stronger but I agree automatons are more resistant and hold hate better.
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 Bismarck.Keityan
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2017-01-12 17:16:27
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RNG strategy version for (D).

2x RNG
2x Tank
1x Heal
1x GEO

It looks 90% identical to the Melee (D) strategy except instead of a Piercing DPS, it's a PLD or a RUN. This player will also tank the Skathi (both face on).

Tank #2 will tank Frigg.

Take Frigg down to 5%. Kill Freyja. WS kill Frigg. Skill Skathi. Same rules apply as the melee strategy. Instead of 3 players holding 3 mobs, it's 2 players holding 3 mobs.

The VD RNG strategy works only if the PLD can successfully dodge all the charms. It's very tempermental.
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2017-01-12 18:08:40
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Change it again. RNG D strategy

3x RNG (or with 1x COR)
1x Tank
1x WHM
1x GEO

Tank always faces all 3 mobs, Beware poison300tick. Take Frigg to 5%. Kill Freyja. Kill Frigg. Kill Skathi.
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By Ruaumoko 2017-01-12 18:25:06
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Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
Sorry Trulu, missed your post the first time.
I don't get the necessity of 2 pets on the adds.
Wouldn't this strategy work with 3x tanking PUPs and 3x whatever else?

Like:
2x SMN and a COR
1x SMN, a COR and a GEO
1x SMN, 1x BST, 1 COR

etc etc


Which frame/attachment setup do you suggest anyway? With this approach each puppet will eat 1x EES each instead of having all 3 EES concentrated on the same target?


2x PUP lets you ignore the enmity mechanics of the fight entirely and just beat everything to death. You can use whatever you like, it doesn't particularly matter so long as the PUPs you have tanking know what they are doing. SMNs and BSTs can get into AoE range though, and their pets aren't as durable as Automatons. With PUP you just deploy, run away, maintain maneuvers until everything is dead. Two of our PUPs didn't even have 1200jp and it didn't matter.

EES is totally irrelevant to Automatons, I didn't realize it was even something happening in this fight until I read what other people were saying. These things aren't going to kill you, they are hella weak. I've been using VE/SS, AP4, ARK4, MJ4, OF1+2, Attuner, TS4, Coiler 1+2, TC 1+2, Inhibitor II. I change out Inhibitor for strobe when not ODing.
Two PUP would be fantastic for tanking two of the NMs while two SMN blast down the others. Avatars are disposable hate and Automatons have enough tricks to ensure their Lamia stays stuck on them.

I'd imagine that PUP/PUP/SMN/SMN/COR/GEO would blow this away on VD.

PUP's of Asura... We're on a a mission from God.
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