Master Trial - Black And White

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2017-11-12
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Master Trial - Black and White
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By Verda 2016-10-21 15:55:24
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Josiahkf said: »
Yeah rangers dying carry far far less weight than a Pld or healer dying anyway
Somewhat true, a double weak ranger is the most useless thing in the game though (ranged acc and attack goes to 1).
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2016-10-21 15:56:48
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yea, one of my earlier attempts i spent over 90 seconds staring at a 2% odin while I had 2 double weak rngs and couldn't do ***.. got it to 1% with pld melee before timing out(like 10s before weakness off with EES ready on both)
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 Carbuncle.Papesse
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By Carbuncle.Papesse 2016-10-21 16:17:26
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Aegis is pretty much mandatory for Odin, Radiance SC would be deadly otherwise.
If you have some trouble to survive during the first phase (the hardest part of the fight IMO, I'm not even sure if it's feasible without Burtgang or a ton of luck...) you can replace the COR for SMN and use Mewing Lullaby, it makes the first part dramatically easier and doesn't poses a problem time-wise if the SMN is geared for dd (can still reach Odin with over 15 min of time remaining etc). The job offers some other advantages like EA/another target for Geirrothr.
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2016-10-21 22:23:35
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
yea, one of my earlier attempts i spent over 90 seconds staring at a 2% odin while I had 2 double weak rngs and couldn't do ***.. got it to 1% with pld melee before timing out(like 10s before weakness off with EES ready on both)
EES would have missed anyways, you know it would
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By Afania 2016-10-22 00:55:58
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How does wildfire perform in this BC? I vaguely recall back when we did EinII WF worked well. Does it work in this B.C too?
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 Asura.Avallon
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By Asura.Avallon 2016-11-29 14:49:50
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This is probably old news to players who also play XIV but damn - they have Master Trial-esque weapons also. Or at least these particular weapons glow similarly.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what these are? Mythics? Relics? I don't play XIV but I'm curious is all.

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By Valefor.Maurauc 2016-11-29 15:04:28
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So that specifically are the weapons used in the Palace of the Dead, a Nyzul-esque floor climb/delve with randomly laid out floors, enemies and buffs/debuffs.

Those are the Aetherpool Arms, the weapons given to you inside (because you enter as a job but your level inside is separate to the rest of the game). You can buff them up by finding buff chests inside, and when they get to high enough levels, you can get an NPC to pull them from the Palace and bring them into the rest of the game.
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 Asura.Avallon
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By Asura.Avallon 2016-11-29 15:18:34
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Valefor.Maurauc said: »
So that specifically are the weapons used in the Palace of the Dead, a Nyzul-esque floor climb/delve with randomly laid out floors, enemies and buffs/debuffs.

Those are the Aetherpool Arms, the weapons given to you inside (because you enter as a job but your level inside is separate to the rest of the game). You can buff them up by finding buff chests inside, and when they get to high enough levels, you can get an NPC to pull them from the Palace and bring them into the rest of the game.

Ah, nice. Thanks for the explanation.
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By Verda 2016-11-29 18:19:12
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Some of you know already but I've also won two times now, once with a RUN tanking. I posted a youtube video of it if you care to see.

YouTube Video Placeholder
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By aigulfe 2017-10-03 20:51:04
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Been doing this fight frequently for the past couple of weeks. Getting close but not quite there yet. Today we got Odin down to like 5% or so as time expired. PLD GEO WHM SMN SMN COR (me). Was only the second time we'd gotten to the Odin part and I think being unsure where to place ourselves at the beginning and during the Odin part cost us a win. We lost a SMN when Odin used his first move then lost the other SMN and the WHM on a subsequent move. Wanted to find out about placement and where people should be. If we have Odin facing the wall with his back to the blue teleport area, should everyone be sorta on his side? If everyone is in one spot, i'd need to run away to put rolls on myself without overwriting the pet rolls but thats NBD if i know thats what needs to happen. We do have two pets and a luopan to soak up some of the 7500 shared dmg move but i'm /nin so I feel like I could stand within 20 and do that too while not getting hit with the conal death move.

Gonna try do this again on Thursday so figured I'd try get some ideas on positioning.
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By Afania 2017-10-03 22:48:02
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aigulfe said: »
Been doing this fight frequently for the past couple of weeks. Getting close but not quite there yet. Today we got Odin down to like 5% or so as time expired. PLD GEO WHM SMN SMN COR (me). Was only the second time we'd gotten to the Odin part and I think being unsure where to place ourselves at the beginning and during the Odin part cost us a win. We lost a SMN when Odin used his first move then lost the other SMN and the WHM on a subsequent move. Wanted to find out about placement and where people should be. If we have Odin facing the wall with his back to the blue teleport area, should everyone be sorta on his side? If everyone is in one spot, i'd need to run away to put rolls on myself without overwriting the pet rolls but thats NBD if i know thats what needs to happen. We do have two pets and a luopan to soak up some of the 7500 shared dmg move but i'm /nin so I feel like I could stand within 20 and do that too while not getting hit with the conal death move.

Gonna try do this again on Thursday so figured I'd try get some ideas on positioning.


I know I'm going to sound mean but it's only the 2nd time that you get to Odin after weeks of trying, fat chances are your SMN isn't strong enough. This fight entirely rely on SMN strength, with more dps you have more room for error if things went wrong. If SMN dps sits at certain level the COR can just roll and afk and still get win. If feel you have to contribute 13% of dps on cor, coordinating SC and still struggling to hit the time limit, then there are probably room for improvement when it comes to dps because more dps=more room for error.

Here is the check list of things that you may be missing:

- Crooked card on beast roll, and full time CC it.
- Make sure SMN has enough acc.
- Chaos + Sam for COR, screw hunters roll.
- light shot dia every mob
- if you pull hate, run back to the bubble immediately
- After first AC, random deal for bp reset then WC immediately to reset SP again. Make sure you always always stack bolster with AC. And have SMN call for random deal to reset bp.

I'm not sure if you are already doing all of above or if I'm missing anything important.

Edit:Now that I think about it, I may have to look into chaos+hunter 4 hit v.s chaos Sam high acc build for COR. Anyways smn output is more important and you may want to look into random deal coordination if you haven't done it already.
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By Bahamut.Lexouritis 2017-10-04 00:09:17
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Could look into PLD/nin (or RUN) RNG RNG COR GEO SCH, if your SMNs aren't strong enough. We have beaten this fight 5 times for various members, without (and never) using SMN. Thing is the RNG need both Aeonic Gun and AG Anni, so inherent limitations.
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By aigulfe 2017-10-04 00:57:32
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Appreciate the feedback. I don't wanna make it seem like we're 0/30 or anything .. probably more like 0/10, maybe 0/6 or 0/7 on genuine attempts (like timeouts, not counting times when our tank died early or ***hit the fan early) but yeah we initially struggled to get through Alex in a timely fashion. Personally I feel like it took me a while to adjust to the mechanics of the fight. Initially I feel like we didn't take out Grim as early as we should so the hate resets were unreal. I think one time I died 4-5 times. We corrected that but then struggled to take down alex. I made some adjustments there, ate curry and dropped back into my normal shooting TP set, abused triple shot and went all out. I believe we took down alex in 10 minutes today. We had roughly 9 minutes on Odin but had a few positioning related deaths.

We initially tried to play for SC dmg with PLD and myself opening for SMNs. Today we didn't do that as much and did a lot better. Think the parse looked like SMN1 41$, SMN2 36%, COR 14%.

I will say that I feel like I struggle to hit reliably even in my acc racc set (think im around 1374 pre food), unles I have both sublime and hunters up.. though admittedly I cant always prioritize that roll. I have 4 rolls to get through and if I need to save Random Deal for Apogee or things like that, I cant just go around busting a lot. I do pull hate a few times but I've had to put in a lot of emnity- gear.. though mostly things with racc as well... AF+3 legs, Oshosi feet, cacoethic HQ and NQ rings and the gunslingers cape with -5. Also put 5 merits into emnity decrease for this.. so i'm not at 1374 any more maybe closer to around 1350 with the enmity- stuff in... but I've found I pull hate far too easily without that stuff. My high racc set is solid.. only things I'm missing that I know of would be the AF+3 head (have +2 meg) and the HQ kwahu belt (have NQ).

Full time CC BST roll is something I could try adjust. I've always preferred 5/5 snake eye merits as opposed to roll duration 5/5 but in this fight, maybe I should adjust them. I absolutely hate snake eye 1/5 though. It almost feels worthless.. feels like it always expends itself on the first use and almost always results in a 1.

Its a frustrating fight for a COR I feel like. The only time I feel like I really even go remotely close to all out is on Alex.
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By Afania 2017-10-04 03:04:14
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Yeah this fight isn't very DD COR friendly due to hate, more so if you use SMN or tank isn't active on pulling things back because at that point it becomes noticeable that the NM goes out of bubbles.

Full time CC for beast roll is worth it IMO, just because smn damage is so high so it makes more sense to buff your strongest dps. I prefer full time super charged roll v.s a bit higher chance to get 11.

I can get over 1400 racc prebuff/food with a fomalhaut, that's why I decided to ditch hunters roll and just full time chaos + Sam. I'm not sure about the exact racc requirement tbh, you may be able to get away with 1374 if whm keep agi boost up.

Another reason why I didn't like to deal with hunters roll is because it's too unreliable. I burned all my JA(CC, snake eye, fold) on pet rolls, and all my left over JA goes to chaos roll. So it's very hard to get high buff potency on hunter roll. If I land a No.8 hunters roll without any ja up I felt it's almost equal to not having the buff because I still couldn't reach 4 hit and capped racc with such low racc number.

That being said, I recently redo my racc set, my semi high acc set now has 4 hit too, and I had pretty good result with chaos + hunter as long as 4 hit is maintained, which allows more ws dmg gear instead of racc. So maybe hunter + Chaos may ended up better. I just haven't compare them on spreadsheet yet.

If you decide to go with hunters roll, just make sure you have a hunters up/down tp set. Because doing 4 roll rotation means your hunter won't be always up - another reason why I didn't like hunter because I'm lazy with multi set management .-.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Langly 2017-10-04 08:35:16
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I went COR/SMN and mewing lullaby'd for deaggro on PLD every minute. Gave me something else to do instead of pulling hate on everything.
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 Asura.Pergatory
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By Asura.Pergatory 2017-10-04 10:42:38
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For what it's worth, we've beaten this with the COR literally not shooting a single bullet. (They were paying so we let them just stand there and give us rolls, sometimes asked for a Light Shot. We didn't trust them to be smart about hate.) We literally killed it pretty much on the 60 minute mark, but a win is a win, and that was with no Wild Card resets and our first two Conduits almost completely wasted due to Ramuh dying. We also had the PLD die once about halfway through and wasted a good bit of time.

When we did it with a full LS group, the COR had to be very careful. Just popping a few Last Stands to open light for Ramuh will add a lot of damage. I wouldn't advise trying to do more than that until you get to Alexander.

Also, we kill Grim first always. Screw that hate reset nonsense. One Conduit will usually kill her, then the other SMN's Conduit can hopefully kill one of the RDMs. I can't remember off the top of my head which one we usually do 2nd. Helm, I think.
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By aigulfe 2017-10-04 12:01:29
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Yeah, I cant push my max racc that high with /nin anyway. Also I'm missing the devastating bullets so that's another 10-15 I cant get to. Have fomalhaut though. I walked the hate line fairly well the last fight except for one time I ended up double weak. I'm thinking that full time CC BST roll might be the last thing that we're missing. I pumped my rolls up to 9:30 and could push to 9:50 with compensator. If I timed it right after a WS, I could swap weapons, roll, swap back with really no TP lost. Maybe that's another thing I should try do. At least that way, if BST is down for 10-30 seconds, thats better than it being down for 80-90.

We've been killing Helm first. This last fight we incorporated the Apogee > RDeal > Apogee strat on him and that seemed to work. We'd often lose most of a conduit due to his chainspell. Then we conduit down Grim and Ort. Had no luck with resets that last time.

Last time we got to Odin with 9 minutes to spare despite me being double weak once. That was really our only setback though. It was also darksday... sorta unavoidable. We had time for one legit run at our gather time.. no WC resets.. so it wasn't a perfect run by any means. We seem to have wiggle room now and if I CC BST every time, probably more so.

We really should have beaten it but yeah, too many deaths on Odin I think just due to unfamiliarity with that part of the fight. Gonna try again tomorrow I think. As far as the positioning... tank makes Odin face a wall, mages all on one side 20' back and then me maybe inside 20 to soak up some shared dmg sounds good?
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By aigulfe 2017-10-04 12:09:10
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Hmm another thing I could try, at least early in the fight is to pop CC early like SCH might pop a strat, let the cooldown run for a bit then use BST roll.
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By Bahamut.Lexouritis 2017-10-04 18:16:06
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1425 acc (all sources)seems to cap hit rate on all 3 master trials, on every mob as far as I know. We push people for 1450 just in case, but you should be fine with 1425. Our CORs and RNGs usually eat sushi, drop into low acc sets, and Samurai/Chaos Rolls. With the ridiculous gear creep in year since this was first beaten, even a COR should live without hunters. Our better CORs were using Hunter's back then (RNGs never needed it), not anymore. 1350 + Sublime Sushi u should be capped, maybe check that u aren't going off in pre-shot or something. Also I would aim for 15mins for Odin, cause guy can be a ***. I personally hate this fight, it's hell for the PLD, until we get to Odin. Then it's fun as hell lol, he can say 'nope' at any time.
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By Sammeh 2017-10-04 18:52:02
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For what it's worth Skillchain dmg can make up for a lot of gimpier SMN damage. I was SMN and consider myself on the gimpier side. My Volt Strike set is good, but not great. Skill chains by replacing WHM with SCH and letting the COR open with Wildfire -> Volt Strike = fragmentation allowed for 18% overall damage boost across the fight. That's pretty substantial.

Falkirk was the other SMN who had a few more +1's, but still in Oboro weapon (Apogee legs and feet+1 and a varar+1 and the Regal Belt).

Without skillchains we would not have finished in time.


My Voltstrike set:
Code
		main={ name="Gridarvor", augments={'Pet: Accuracy+70','Pet: Attack+70','Pet: "Dbl. Atk."+15',}},
		sub="Elan Strap +1",
		ammo="Sancus Sachet +1",
		head={ name="Apogee Crown +1", augments={'MP+80','Pet: Attack+35','Blood Pact Dmg.+8',}},
		body="Con. Doublet +3",
		hands={ name="Merlinic Dastanas", augments={'Pet: Attack+25 Pet: Rng.Atk.+25','Blood Pact Dmg.+8','Pet: INT+10','Pet: Mag. Acc.+8','Pet: "Mag.Atk.Bns."+1',}},
		legs={ name="Enticer's Pants", augments={'MP+50','Pet: Accuracy+15 Pet: Rng. Acc.+15','Pet: Mag. Acc.+15','Pet: Damage taken -5%',}},
		feet={ name="Apogee Pumps", augments={'MP+60','Pet: Attack+30','Blood Pact Dmg.+7',}},
		neck="Shulmanu Collar",
		waist="Incarnation Sash",
		left_ear="Gelos Earring",
		right_ear="Lugalbanda Earring",
		left_ring="Varar Ring",
		right_ring="Varar Ring",
		back="Campestres's Cape",
 Asura.Avallon
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By Asura.Avallon 2017-10-04 18:59:54
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Sammeh said: »
For what it's worth Skillchain dmg can make up for a lot of gimpier SMN damage. I was SMN and consider myself on the gimpier side. My Volt Strike set is good, but not great. Skill chains by replacing WHM with SCH and letting the COR open with Wildfire -> Volt Strike = fragmentation allowed for 18% overall damage boost across the fight. That's pretty substantial.

Falkirk was the other SMN who had a few more +1's, but still in Oboro weapon (Apogee legs and feet+1 and a varar+1 and the Regal Belt).

Without skillchains we would not have finished in time.


My Voltstrike set:
Code
		main={ name="Gridarvor", augments={'Pet: Accuracy+70','Pet: Attack+70','Pet: "Dbl. Atk."+15',}},
		sub="Elan Strap +1",
		ammo="Sancus Sachet +1",
		head={ name="Apogee Crown +1", augments={'MP+80','Pet: Attack+35','Blood Pact Dmg.+8',}},
		body="Con. Doublet +3",
		hands={ name="Merlinic Dastanas", augments={'Pet: Attack+25 Pet: Rng.Atk.+25','Blood Pact Dmg.+8','Pet: INT+10','Pet: Mag. Acc.+8','Pet: "Mag.Atk.Bns."+1',}},
		legs={ name="Enticer's Pants", augments={'MP+50','Pet: Accuracy+15 Pet: Rng. Acc.+15','Pet: Mag. Acc.+15','Pet: Damage taken -5%',}},
		feet={ name="Apogee Pumps", augments={'MP+60','Pet: Attack+30','Blood Pact Dmg.+7',}},
		neck="Shulmanu Collar",
		waist="Incarnation Sash",
		left_ear="Gelos Earring",
		right_ear="Lugalbanda Earring",
		left_ring="Varar Ring",
		right_ring="Varar Ring",
		back="Campestres's Cape",

Damn, Samm just tossed Falkirk under the bus! :)
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By Sammeh 2017-10-04 19:09:30
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I'm thoroughly confused on how. Falk knows I respect him as one of the best players who has ever played on all jobs he plays.

What I'm suggesting is that you don't have to have hundreds of millions of gil in gear and be able to perform well, especially when you do things intelligently and you work together as a team with high levels of communication.

We were not certain the outcome without Nirvana's and my lack of more +1 gear.

-Sam
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By Asura.Avallon 2017-10-04 19:23:56
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Sammeh said: »
I'm thoroughly confused on how. Falk knows I respect him as one of the best players who has ever played on all jobs he plays.

What I'm suggesting is that you don't have to have hundreds of millions of gil in gear and be able to perform well, especially when you do things intelligently and you work together as a team with high levels of communication.

We were not certain the outcome without Nirvana's and my lack of more +1 gear.

-Sam

I was just kidding. I guess I should have typed that out.

It's true that skill of the job can sometimes be more potent than gear. This is the case for Aphelion Knuckles BC where there's a lot of moving parts for the SMN role.

Don't get me wrong though, you still need respectable gear for the BP's.
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By Sammeh 2017-10-04 19:28:37
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Asura.Avallon said: »

I was just kidding. I guess I should have typed that out.

I took it as a joke, but I didn't want to leave any doubt out there. Falk is #MuchRespect
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By aigulfe 2017-10-10 16:40:11
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Cleared this today. Just wanted to thanks those for their input/advice. Once we got to Odin with 5-10 minutes left, we timed out 3 times in a row last week and yesterday with Odin at like 5%. Always one untimely death or a conduit that had the pet die a few too many times or something.

Today we cleared it on lightsday then darksday no less) with 3 minutes to spare. 1/1 with drachen instead of companions. We also switched our start order to Ort > Grim > Helm. Figured we'd try conduit Ort down before he buffed everyone (plus his chainspell isnt a Ramuh killer), then conduited through Grim and his bene (again, not much risk of pet being killed) then we did helm after that. Wasn't a perfect run.. we pushed Walt down too far with one of the invincibles still up and he bene'd both. I managed not to die until after Odin killed our tank with one of his KO moves.

Anyway, just thanks to those who offered advice. Much appreciated.
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