XI Was So Challenging, It Brought People Together

Hi,

I don't think this article was already posted, so I wanted to share it here

http://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-xi-was-so-challenging-it-brought-people-1785114506

I love how all the pictures are from FF14...

lol

The writer is comparing the two, stating how 14's more solo-focused gameplay detracts heavily from the MMO feel. So the pictures are in-line with the article.

Good piece, I agree wholeheartedly.

We wanted an easier game and now we have it. Careful what you wish for.

Wicked - it mentions Muadib. I remember meeting that guy and explaining to him what his name meant in Arabic.
It means "well mannered" or "versed in manners" or "of good nature/manners".
And he was exactly like this article describes. Always helping people, at least in the earlier days of Pandy.

Level 42 in FFXIV and made it to the dunes in FFXI... reached the apex, time to write a review.

I do fundamentally agree with the criticism of FFXIV, though. I won't say I did endgame, but the game felt very isolating. In FFXI, you were competing with other players for resources (either against or alongside) from Tiny Bumblebee claim wars at level 1 all the way to endgame. In FFXIV, every other player may as well not have existed outside of the alleged humans I met through Duty Finder and then never saw again. Is that really an improvement?

Definitely depends on who you ask. A lot of us posting here have played MMO's for ages and played them back when things were a lot different. XI was hard and challenging just like this review said but unfortunately a majority of people didn't want hard and challenging. One of the reasons WoW was so successful is because they eventually became a "Themepark MMO" where the experience was fast and fun and not difficult and frustrating. FFXIV followed suit and aimed their game for a wider audience as opposed to the selected few who want a fair challenge.

So while, to us, it looks backwards from a marketing perspective it was probably the right decision.

I played FFXIV fro a month and I had all crafting skills up to 50 and I was level 30ish or so.

I played FFXI for 2.5 years before I had my first level 75 character.

I'm still playing FFXI today. No MMO has ever held my attention like FFXI. From that very first Distortion skillchain on crabs in the Dunes, I was hooked.

I played FFXIV until level 16. The only shouts I heard was from RMT and I never got 1 single /tell.
In contrast, my first time logging in in FFXI, I got a tell right after the first CS, while the screen was still, unfading (?) from black. Guy (I really wish I remembered his name) said "Hey, you're new, follow me." Showed me Bastok, took me to the AH, then said "Trade me" and gave me a flower. From there, he pointed out a little girl I had to talk to and trade the flower to (I didn't even realize this was my first completed quest until some time later). And this is just how things kept on, random strangers helping, until I found my first LS and I actually got to know people. Even though now FFXI is much easier than it used to be, the community has been cemented into one where people interact. It's the reason why I keep playing and why no one can ever truly quit FFXI.

FFXIV is a perfectly fine game, but a lot of the backlash is from people who were expecting FFXI-2, which it most certainly is not (though being able to change jobs in the field is vaguely dress-spehereish!).

Its biggest flaws are:
- The focus on solo is really nice for more casual players, but it really removes the "multiplayer" part of MMO for large chunks of the actual game
- The strict choreography requirements in anything approaching endgame. You could "hide" lesser players in FFXI, in big enough fights; you can't do that in FFXIV, which means more than a few linkshells that made the switch had long time members suddenly frozen out because they weren't good enough to beat Titan/etc.
- The strict party size/composition requirements further the locking out of less-than-top-tier players.

The last two are mostly complaints from people who wanted FFXI-2 (like me!), but the first is a problem for everyone (including the author of the article).

Besides more complicated and longer boss mechanics, they pretty much saw all FFXIV had to offer; Dungeons and more dungeons.

FFXI used to fill a gap in the world of mmos, for being so hardcore in terms of character progression. A game we loved to hate, somewhat masochistic. It used to bombard us with crazy goals which is why it made us feel full of achievement when we crossed out a line on our to-do lists. When I look back, I see an interactive network, nothing like what we experience today. But, despite all that, the game aged quite well. Fourteen years, still kicking, shame on SE for not giving it the support it deserved.

We are comparing two completely different games here.

FFXI is marketed towards a specific set of people, while FFXIV is marketed towards another specific set of people.

To compare them both is like comparing Breath of Fire II with Madden 2016.

They both have oversized shoulder pads.

SEE, THAT WASN'T SO HARD

/slap

FFXIV is what you make it I have quite a few active linkshells and theres normally a few people jabbering on about some rubbish. The main beef of that article is that no one speaks to each other though in my time on both games the amount I talk is pretty much the same anyway its no different. The author also says that she had the opportunity to speak to other players but didn't so its her loss really.

FFXIs combat and content system was stupidly slow which allowed people to then talk to each other when they weren't doing much i.e. camping kings for 72hours(glad that's gone).... XIV is a lot more fast pace and feels like more of a battle but in doing so takes the time to talk to a minimum. My raid static uses discord and a linkshell and we are always chatting about random crap so XIV never really feels like a solo MMO.

Their experience when they first started XI is probably in the minority I know when I first started I got my first tell off someone and a linkshell at level 15 (2 weeks in) while I was still soloing in the lowbie areas around Windy because I didn't know where to go. I was level 17 before I found out about dunes and parties.

Comparing XI and XIV is like trying to find apples that taste like oranges its not going to happen.

The most common negative feedback from XIV long term players (anything over 2 years) has been that it is not a true open world experience. It is, to a much less extent now, a lobby-server/que to dungeon type of game. Outside of main storyline, there was no real interaction with the environment. They had hoped Fates and Zodiac line quests would compensate for this, which is didn't because execution was horrible - grind fest for your atmas.
They tried again with Hunts, but failed.

Rich PVE and greater diversity was what FFXI was all about.
The sub-job system of FFXI and FFXIV for example - FFXI's sub job systems allows for some customization, whereas the class-job system of FFXIV is dull and pre-decided for you.

FFXI also comes with a requirement of investing great time into your gear. Several sets for each job, in comparison to FFXIV's max of 2 sets for each job (most often just 1).

Ultimately I agree with you; The two games are different. Too different to compare. As a gaming experience, FFXI trumped FFXIV for me.

I prefer FFXI's battle mechanics because it is far more visceral. Being able to ws-skillchain->magic burst are unique mechanics that should have been incorporated into other FF titles, especially FFXIV.

FFXIV's biggest problem is its battle mechanics. They tried to create an Action-RPG, and completely failed. The fights in FFXIV or only enjoyable until you've figured out the sequence. And in terms of controlling your character, its not like Korean Action MMOs where you can choose to counter, dodge, block like a Beat-em-up like SSFIV/V or Tekken, or even adventure games like God of War or Devil May Cry. No, the fighting is very bland, very stale in XIV. If FFXIV had the combat system of something like Terra, or Warhammer it would have been a much better game with more depth. As it stands, its a wow clone. Perfect rotations while being able to dodge- that's FFXIV's battle system.

You have the illusion of choice in XI when it comes to battles. In FFXIV you have no choice. You're going to do the same opener as everyone else who plays that job and knows about it. You're going to dodge the aoe and pretty colors the same as everyone else. You're going to play out your role, just like everyone else, aiming to input the exact same sequence of moves, hot bar keys, at the same times... how exciting...To introduce grinds

The greatest thing about XIV is that you are actually the hero, the actual legend that everyone knows. You're at the center of events all the time. In XI, you were pretty much just another dude watching others' (NPCs) story lines unfold.

A lot of the music in XIV has no soul as well. Its very mundane and put together in a way that ticks the boxes. There are exceptions of course, in fact there are some phenomenally good exceptions. But they do little to compensate for that "my soul is dead" feeling you have most of the time journeying through the zones. Compared to the masterpieces that were RoZ and CoP for music, FFXI is a clear winner when it comes to sound/music. I think the 3 moogle add ons had more inspiring music than all of FFXIV.

Gear progression and economy in FFXIV - about as sad as it gets in an MMO.

So here's the thing. I just left a job I had been stuck in for a number of years due to limited opportunities locally. Management was shitty and it was a depressing morale sucking job, but I had good colleagues on my level and I remain friends with them.

Looking back on it, my colleagues were great. The job was still ***.

#FFXI

We have something called the Novice Network now that helps new players by putting them in a channel with mentors that they can ask questions or team up with if they need help. Mentors run dungeons, it's used for chatting, advice, quest help etc until you hit level 50 and beat the 2.0 storyline

People recruit for their FC or chat linkshell in the Network, Excalibur discord channel in Party Finder, help out new players in fates etc all the time

Sometimes you have to be the one to reach out too, instead of expecting other players to help you first

I find it frustrating that such an early MMO nearly nailed the best job system and a few aspects of the combat system. Approaching two decades later and games are still piddling around with pale imitations like RIFT's classes and 14's job system.

Only way that 14 improved the job system was treating crafts as full jobs.

While I don't think XI has the best combat system, I would say that gear-swapping in combat is what allowed the job system to be even more awesome. When you have to full-time one set of gear, the only difference between your [x job] and everyone else playing it is how far you are along the road to best-in-slot.

As for skillchains/magic bursts... this is far superior in an mmo than the "herpy derp, let me just spam this one rotation on every single boss, or nearly, that I fight" as most games design.

Yes, FFXI's TP system has decayed poorly (because so many melee can self-skillchain now, more than one/two melee is frequently detrimental to the group). Honestly, that's due to awesome gear which... 75 era did not have.

FFXI's inventory system is crap, but a game building this job system and inventory system now could do far far better. Want a main job to be able to enhance the potency of an ability. Make the quest reward a key item.

Ive been playing for 3 years and I like FFXIV much more than what FFXI is NOW. Do I prefer 75 cap FFXI to FFXIV? yes I do but we can never go back to that so why dwell on the past? I do A LOT of gathering on FFXIV so it does seem very open world to me and while I'm queued I'm always gathering as I make everything I need to raid with.

One thing you said leads me to believe you don't min/max for raids as any acc over the cap is a waste so you should have 5 set devoted to the 4 raid floors and then 1 for everything under that. I don't think ive really just sat down and done nothing in game for quite a while now and my main job is missing one BiS piece.



Playing XIV till level 16 is like playing FFXI and getting level 8 nothing much happening and not many spells/abilities. If you are going to slag the game off ATLEAST play to level 50. What you need to remember is FFXI didn't hold your hand and didn't tell you where to go next, which is pretty stupid tbh, FFXIV will do what that player did. As drac said theres a lot going on in FFXIV for lowbies now if you seek out the help rather than being an entitled little thing and expecting it to be handed to you on a silver platter, in a box, wrap in a nice pink bow.

if XIV had kept with 1.0's early crossclass system the game would be far better and provide people with "customization" (though we all know the cookie cutter BiS skills would be the only ones used for each category. Even now, XIV's class system has throwaway abilities that none of the jobs would ever use instead of more useful abilities that wouldnt affect game balance).

Overall, XIV:ARR and Heavensward were just poorly managed for people who actively play the game in favor of supercasuals who only hardcore farmed likes on the forums complaining about nothing really of importance.

Yeah I remember 1.0's system. The flaw in that design was that because the advanced jobs were so restrictive, many players chose to stick to the basic jobs.

I generally preferred Gladiator over Paladin for instance. GLA had access to things like Second Wind, PLD did not.

Gear-swapping in combat and subjobs just allow a freedom of choice that I haven't seen in any other game. Also versatility, things like /war or /sam vs /nin, /thf, or rarer /dnc (for group play).

All the old incredible nin/rdm or thf bloody bolt solos. Could never happen in most games.

Using the "75 cap was better I'd go back in a heartbeat!" really invalidates your opinion. The game was not better, you are just looking through rose tinted goggles.

Just going to jump in here -
Don't assume to know anything about us or our time in XIV. We were 5 x melding sets for different scenarios like DPS WAR tanking before it was mainstream. Any end game player coming from XI to XIV 1.0 or ARR did the same; try to bring out the max from each job/class. We weren't WoW/general MMOists noobs focusing purely on rotations and PvP - we were elitist FFXI *** and we made sure to explore everything we could in terms of efficiency. But we soon found out XIV was a poser's MMO; one that was all skin and no meat. A sports car with the engine of a camry. A blow up doll. It's a game without a soul, which probably suits this generation of Pokemon goers - aimlessly waiting for the next gear update, with nothing to do with it once you've got it.

Original FFXI had challenges that were not supposed to be achieved by just anyone.
Tanaka's vision for relics was 1 out of every 10,000 players would have one. His vision for AV and PW were goals beyond one's reach today, something they worked towards over the years. Those long term goals were what allowed the trailblazers in XI to strive. They wanted to attain that once in a life time victory. And as they strived for it, many of us tried to keep up with them. We had legendary players in XI, people who were known for skill, or innovation, or their political aptitude, or teams and bands of people who were known for their determination and dedication.

That doesnt exist in XIV. Lucrecia most popular video has about as many views as a taru RDM poking Tiamat with a stick and dying 30 seconds later.

XIV is painfully bland, painfully lacking any real unique experience. And its all because games today are made to be enjoyable for the most casual, the weakest and most whiney of players.

FFXIV 1.0 was a LOT closer to FFXI than ARR though, considering 1.0 release first it's nothing wrong to expect something similar to 1.0.

But no, they gave something completely different from 1.0, I was like wft when I start ARR.

Although ARR model is also a perfectly fine game, it was kinda shocking and waves of ARR fans bashing FFXI and FFXIV 1.0 model doesn't help.

Even then, they still cut a large bulk of things from the game after implementing jobs. Its not like you couldnt balance against a PLD with auto refresh but, apparently "Balance" is this unobtainable thing for SE that in order to even come close they have to suck interesting and fun things out of gameplay.

the main thing that was truly wrong with ARR that will eventually be its downfall is the heavily lopsided appealing to the super casuals who barely play the game outside of roulettes. Not getting content every cycle that has value really kills the want to log in when content is either go into content and a) wipe for hours because there are still people that cant play at even the most basic level b) farm for an hour, get everything you want, then have nothing to do or c) cap tokens in a dungeon then cap your crafting and gathering tokens for the rest of the week.

and then you log out until you raid with your static...good luck replacing someone who can output and show up as required though (Because there are still people out there who want to raid, but dont want to raid).

In gameplay mechanics, how would you say the two were similar? Even in 1.x, I did most of my exping solo. I think I was 30 the first time I had the chance to group.

Aside from races, suspiciously similar starting cities, mob skins and things iconic to the franchise themselves, I can't see much similarity. The job system was similar but it basically stops there. Combat, even in groups, was about how hard you could mash your own buttons.

I mean, it's been several years, and I didn't play long but I can't think of much beyond visuals that made it anything like XI.

Yoshida actually said: