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Kupo Shield thread (SE, you are retards)
Sylph.Tuptup
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9
By Sylph.Tuptup 2016-07-15 15:27:58
Make it a common item? Everyone will start flooding the market with crafts and it will destroy the in-game economy.
I say, you really know nothing about economics do you?
One of the basics of economics is increased production = good.
Bad for wealth disparity, but good for the economy.
Indeed he dosent. A perfect(and utopic)economy is an economy where everyone can produce as much goods as they want. It lowers the prices of everything and everyone can chose to spend their money on wichever good they think will be the best for them. The shield creates an oligopoly, where a few individuals have the power to produce specific goods easier that others, allowing them to raise the prices and screw everyone else in the process. Why dont YOU take some business classes and come back when you know what you are talking about, Kingnobody?
I can raise the price to as high as I want, but if people don't have the gil to buy my product, how is it going to make me rich?
[+]
By Whuteva 2016-07-15 15:30:16
I'm sure after this post I will be told to check my #ShieldPrivilege
Indeed! Check your #ShieldPrivilege Lucent! Nah I'm just messing with you XD! No hard feelings. I'm actually glad that someone with a shield dives in the debate. I might not have the shield but I know a lot about crafting and what the shield can do. Would you agree Lucent, that even if you still have to work to make gils with that shield, you made(or could have made) a ***ton of money with it, in a way easier manner that anyone other crafter could?
I just read that after posting :
sylph.tuptup said: I can raise the price to as high as I want, but if people don't have the gil to buy my product, how is it going to make me rich? Would you agree that even if you cant raise the price as much as you want, you can still get more money from it than someone who dosent have the shield?
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2016-07-15 15:31:02
Make it a common item? Everyone will start flooding the market with crafts and it will destroy the in-game economy.
I say, you really know nothing about economics do you?
One of the basics of economics is increased production = good.
Bad for wealth disparity, but good for the economy.
Indeed he dosent. A perfect(and utopic)economy is an economy where everyone can produce as much goods as they want. It lowers the prices of everything and everyone can chose to spend their money on wichever good they think will be the best for them. The shield creates an oligopoly, where a few individuals have the power to produce specific goods easier that others, allowing them to raise the prices and screw everyone else in the process. Why dont YOU take some business classes and come back when you know what you are talking about, Kingnobody?
I can raise the price to as high as I want, but if people don't have the gil to buy my product, how is it going to make me rich?
Because if the item is one-of-a-kind, exlusive, or in very short supply, people will actually accumulate the gil to pay the exorbitant price of the item. Supply and demand. If supply is low, demand is high, and you can set your own prices. When supply is higher, demand goes down and sellers must adjust their prices in order to make a profit.
Just look at the price of Staunch Tathlums from day of release to now. +1 still holding its value, though.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-07-15 15:31:04
Make it a common item? Everyone will start flooding the market with crafts and it will destroy the in-game economy.
I say, you really know nothing about economics do you?
One of the basics of economics is increased production = good.
Bad for wealth disparity, but good for the economy. So, where are all of the crafting materials to help supply those new crafters going to come from?
You do realize that, when you have more people able to produce products, but there is no change to the supply of raw goods, then the raw goods will increase in price, which is not exactly great for the economy. Then you will have a bidding war on said raw goods.
Raw goods won't increase at a rate to help support the increase in demand. At least, not until they also make the items more common.
Just in case you missed the 1970s (and most recently, 2008-2014), bidding wars don't exactly help the overall economy. Generally, it crashes.
Indeed he dosent. A perfect(and utopic)economy is an economy where everyone can produce as much goods as they want. It lowers the prices of everything and everyone can chose to spend their money on wichever good they think will be the best for them. The shield creates an oligopoly, where a few individuals have the power to produce specific goods easier that others, allowing them to raise the prices and screw everyone else in the process. Why dont YOU take some business classes and come back when you know what you are talking about, Kingnobody? See above.
Also, just to test your supposed "financial knowledge," what's the ROI you expect just from taking a craft to 122? All things considered equal as it is now, that is.
You two are very optimistic about how things will really happen. It's almost like you only look at a quarter of the picture.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-07-15 15:33:26
When supply is higher, demand goes down and sellers must adjust their prices in order to make a profit. Demand doesn't automatically go down. It will eventually, especially if we are talking about a non-disposable product. But it doesn't automatically go down.
Sure, those who level the craft quickest will reap the largest reward, but overall, all crafters will see lower profits at an already low NPP.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2016-07-15 15:35:28
Most items can be purchased from vendors and sparks NPC, for several crafts. So the raw goods idea goes out the window.
By LucentThePLD 2016-07-15 15:39:21
I'm sure after this post I will be told to check my #ShieldPrivilege
Indeed! Check your #ShieldPrivilege Lucent! Nah I'm just messing with you XD! No hard feelings. I'm actually glad that someone with a shield dives in the debate. I might not have the shield but I know a lot about crafting and what the shield can do. Would you agree Lucent, that even if you still have to work to make gils with that shield, you made(or could have made) a ***ton of money with it, in a way easier manner that anyone other crafter could?
I just read that after posting :
sylph.tuptup said: I can raise the price to as high as I want, but if people don't have the gil to buy my product, how is it going to make me rich? Would you agree that even if you cant raise the price as much as you want, you can still get more money from it than someone who dosent have the shield?
I'm not going to deny I was able to make more gil than before I won the shield. In fact I will confirm it. But it is NOT what everyone makes it out to be. All I can say is trust me. Tuptup's originally from Sylph but in an effort to collect materials to make the gil she made she (or a mule) has been to Bismarck, Bahamut, Shiva, Siren, Ragnarok and Odin. That's alotta transferring. I was able to make just enough to do some things for myself and a few friends. I probably could have done much more but I also have RL responsibilities that need to be met (as I'm sure everyone else here does, too.)
But it annoys the crap out of me to see people think that shield owners dictate the economy and the prices of the items the shield helps make. We don't. The people with gil decide what an item is worth.
[+]
By Whuteva 2016-07-15 15:40:31
Also, just to test your supposed "financial knowledge," what's the ROI you expect just from taking a craft to 122? All things considered equal as it is now, that is.
You two are very optimistic about how things will really happen. It's almost like you only look at a quarter of the picture.
OMG are you ceteris paribusing me? I have not calculated the return on investment that shield would give because I know enough about crafting to say it would be well worth it.
Asura.Azriel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 720
By Asura.Azriel 2016-07-15 15:45:50
But it annoys the crap out of me to see people think that shield owners dictate the economy and the prices of the items the shield helps make. We don't. The people with gil decide what an item is worth.
If you think demand and offer has something to do with a market as whole - ok
If you think that applys to the AH in FFXI - your wrong on large parts.
Ppl would still pay the same price they bought ***for 10 years ago just because the item never was interresting again in all the years until now and i am the lucky guy to price fix them.
What market would you pay 10 years the same price? Seeing trough what we all have been (IGE Wintersale for gil i.e., Abyssea Choco Blinkers, Sparks Vendor) -_-;;;
Economy here is by far more manipulated then the real stock exchange, i can tell you that. All ur points are invalid, end of the day its not /ppl buying overpriced ***/ its 1 or 2 guys fighting with the seller over an item and make themselve a fool on boards trying to explain why its worth the amount, or not worth the amount of gil.
So many ways are used to justify a price of an item - Market value hardly has an impact on the decission of buying, at least thats my experience in FFXI so far :D
Sylph.Tuptup
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9
By Sylph.Tuptup 2016-07-15 15:59:36
But it annoys the crap out of me to see people think that shield owners dictate the economy and the prices of the items the shield helps make. We don't. The people with gil decide what an item is worth.
If you think demand and offer has something to do with a market as whole - ok
If you think that applys to the AH in FFXI - your wrong on large parts.
Ppl would still pay the same price they bought ***for 10 years ago just because the item never was interresting again in all the years until now and i am the lucky guy to price fix them.
What market would you pay 10 years the same price? Seeing trough what we all have been (IGE Wintersale for gil i.e., Abyssea Choco Blinkers, Sparks Vendor) -_-;;;
Economy here is by far more manipulated then the real stock exchange, i can tell you that. All ur points are invalid, end of the day its not /ppl buying overpriced ***/ its 1 or 2 guys fighting with the seller over an item and make themselve a fool on boards trying to explain why its worth the amount, or not worth the amount of gil.
So many ways are used to justify a price of an item - Market value hardly has an impact on the decission of buying, at least thats my experience in FFXI so far :D
Everyone can argue with me about what the Kupo Shield owning experience is like until they are blue in the face. Just keep in mind, I've lived it since January. Hope that helps.
My summary of what I want people to understand:
A)I'm not saying don't get the shield.
2)It's PROBABLY worth it depending on your goals in this game before it dies.
D)Each round of shields introduced will lower its value because it increases your competition for crafting revenue.
Not going to debate the shield anymore. I have one, I have all the proof I need for my thoughts on what it is and does. My advice is to anybody that has the option to select one is if it is won on a mule, TAKE IT. If it's on main, think about if you want to work to try to really get out of it what is possible or if you want to save time and just pick something else.
Any other questions about my Kupo shield experience, feel free to PM me.
By Whuteva 2016-07-15 16:09:29
2)It's PROBABLY worth it depending on your goals in this game before it dies. Blasphemy! This game will never die! (Please don't burst my bubble XD)
Thanks for your input Lucent!
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-07-15 16:15:10
Most items can be purchased from vendors and sparks NPC, for several crafts. So the raw goods idea goes out the window. Most, sure, but if a craft has a rare item (most items that people want have a craft in it with a rare item, hence why it is so expensive), then limited supply argument stands.
OMG are you ceteris paribusing me? I'm surprised. I thought you were another person who claims to have a degree but cannot answer even the simplest of questions.
And yes, I am Ceteris Paribus you. I think it's pretty obvious when you want to compare the C/E of multiple variables.....
I have not calculated the return on investment that shield would give because I know enough about crafting to say it would be well worth it. Doesn't matter. I expect you to have a reasonable idea of getting a craft to 122 (not 125) would be.
Cerberus.Anjisnu
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2803
By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2016-07-15 16:23:53
quit shield bashing *** it doesn't even stun things anymore
By Whuteva 2016-07-15 16:33:15
Doesn't matter. I expect you to have a reasonable idea of getting a craft to 122 (not 125) would be.
Do you even craft to ask questions like that? Jesus! Theres so many variables! The fluctuating price of HQ abjurations items alone is a huge variable. You want me to make a spreadsheet with expectations of HQ%, how many attempts I'm willing to make, the fluctuating price of materials and the price I'm expecting to fetch from those HQ or something? And grats for missing the whole point of my OP wich was : the shield gives an unfair advantage to a randomly selected few.
Sorry but I really need to vent.
This game has always been hard and long but also so much fun. When we reach our goals, we get a sense of accomplisment. We used to spend hours grinding our levels to 75. Some of us chose to grind craft to 100, wich was insanely hard especially in 2003-2004 but so rewarding. Now we grind REMs, JPs, gear from SR, etc. Some of us grind crafting mules and second chars to Dbox. Some of the gear we grind gets useless because of all the new gear SE adds all the time. But we grind that new gear and toss the old one, we grind those levels, we grind those those JPs. It requires time and efforts but we are obviously OK with that, since we are still here.
Over the years, SE has made a lot of changes to the game. Some we like, some we dont like so much. But the thing that has always been consistant is that anyone could do anything they want in this game if they were willing to put the time and effort into it. That is unfortunatly not true anymore with that shield wich is awarded randomly once a year. This year, 130 people have been awarded the power to print gils with crafting, if only they are willing to take that power and make the little effort it takes to get a craft to 110 now.
That power comes from the fact that not everyone can get that item if they want to, only a randomly chosen few can. As you guessed, I am not of those randomly chosen few. But even if I were, I would still think the way to get it is retarded because the rule that was established 13 years ago is not true anymore : work hard enough and you can do anything.
Fuck you very much SE.
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