Announcing The July Version Update
Announcing the July Version Update
Do you think we could go back in time in these forums and find this argument for each bandwagon? I missed the rng bandwagon in the old days but there was a blm one after that. Then it was sam for a long time. Then war. Then drk, bst, blu... Let's summarize: "zomg, that job does lots'o damage. I'll be that job until everyone complains and it gets nerfed or something else buffed." Bst is still solo'ing NM's that people can't beat in a party. Whm isn't a healer, it's THE healer. Nothing else even comes close to it. Geo is the only buffing job in this game. No one plays rdm, brd, or cor because geo is so damn good. Pld is the only tank and pld is required to have empyrean/mythic before it can be considered for a party. It doesn't even take damage most events, that's ridiculous. Why do these jobs get looked over for being overpowered and "dps of the month" is villainized? I kinda want to say it's because everyone wants their job to be wanted and not have to wait a long time to get a party(sounds like the 10-75grind) and I think that's reasonable, but balances or buffs can make things equal while nerfs create inequalities.
[+]
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
For example, I put forward the idea of a ~10% reduction in CDC damage (2.25->2 fTP) and some alterations to Requiescat some time ago (make it scale similar to Reso, keep the attack penalty and MND mod). It neatly solves the issue of overcentralization around a single dominant weaponskill that's highly rewarding even at 1k TP, while also allowing greater flexibility and use of extended skillchains. It rewards smart play and helps different jobs play nice together.
Kind of off topic, but I ran into this when I was updating some WS data on the JP wiki the other day.
According to some posts on gobli, CDC actually got reduced to 1.625 during the same patch that made FTP transfer across all hits. I tested it myself and the numbers seemed right but I never got around to confirming with anyone on here and I wasn't sure if anything else got changed mathwise since I last calced WS dmg so I'm not completely sure of the numbers (I also am not sure where I recorded the numbers now, lol).
Would you (or someone else) be able to test this real quick?
[+]
Ragnarok.Figster said: »
Do you think we could go back in time in these forums and find this argument for each bandwagon? I missed the rng bandwagon in the old days but there was a blm one after that. Then it was sam for a long time. Then war. Then drk, bst, blu... Let's summarize: "zomg, that job does lots'o damage. I'll be that job until everyone complains and it gets nerfed or something else buffed." Bst is still solo'ing NM's that people can't beat in a party. Whm isn't a healer, it's THE healer. Nothing else even comes close to it. Geo is the only buffing job in this game. No one plays rdm, brd, or cor because geo is so damn good. Pld is the only tank and pld is required to have empyrean/mythic before it can be considered for a party. It doesn't even take damage most events, that's ridiculous. Why do these jobs get looked over for being overpowered and "dps of the month" is villainized? I kinda want to say it's because everyone wants their job to be wanted and not have to wait a long time to get a party(sounds like the 10-75grind) and I think that's reasonable, but balances or buffs can make things equal while nerfs create inequalities.
Only grils play mages and they don't exist!
[+]
Draylo said: »
Only grils play mages and they don't exist!
Ouch, I play mages.
[+]
Ragnarok.Figster said: »
Pld is the only tank and pld is required to have empyrean/mythic before it can be considered for a party. It doesn't even take damage most events, that's ridiculous.
Actually Rune is a very good tank and it is actually more preferred over pld in helm NM fights in Reisenjima.
[+]
Draylo said: »
Only grils play mages and they don't exist!
I read that Dray! Btw...Dray has a very good blm! Just saying!
Asura.Cyleena said: »
Ragnarok.Figster said: »
Pld is the only tank and pld is required to have empyrean/mythic before it can be considered for a party. It doesn't even take damage most events, that's ridiculous.
Actually Rune is a very good tank and it is actually more preferred over pld in helm NM fights in Reisenjima.
I'm pretty sure Figster is just trolling jobs :)
Afania said: »
Asura.Cyleena said: »
Ragnarok.Figster said: »
Pld is the only tank and pld is required to have empyrean/mythic before it can be considered for a party. It doesn't even take damage most events, that's ridiculous.
Actually Rune is a very good tank and it is actually more preferred over pld in helm NM fights in Reisenjima.
I'm pretty sure Figster is just trolling jobs :)
Next time he tries to troll jobs he can add Rune to the list then ^.~
Fenrir.Tarowyn said: »
Kind of off topic, but I ran into this when I was updating some WS data on the JP wiki the other day.
According to some posts on gobli, CDC actually got reduced to 1.625 during the same patch that made FTP transfer across all hits. I tested it myself and the numbers seemed right but I never got around to confirming with anyone on here and I wasn't sure if anything else got changed mathwise since I last calced WS dmg so I'm not completely sure of the numbers (I also am not sure where I recorded the numbers now, lol).
Would you (or someone else) be able to test this real quick?
According to some posts on gobli, CDC actually got reduced to 1.625 during the same patch that made FTP transfer across all hits. I tested it myself and the numbers seemed right but I never got around to confirming with anyone on here and I wasn't sure if anything else got changed mathwise since I last calced WS dmg so I'm not completely sure of the numbers (I also am not sure where I recorded the numbers now, lol).
Would you (or someone else) be able to test this real quick?
Yeah, I'll test it. Give me a few.
Afania said: »
I'm pretty sure Figster is just trolling jobs :)
I actually wasn't trolling.... I was thinking about this today and I haven't seen RUN ever mentioned as a wanted tank, whm is basically the only healer, geo as a buffer. I haven't seen a brd in game in a long time, same with run. It's cool that run is a situational tank for a few nm's but does doing 4% of the content really make it comparable? If I'm wrong on these then let me know, give me some examples but I just don't see it.
Gambit and Rayke are ridiculously good. Bring a PLD too if you want, either will do the job fine, but you should really have at least one RUN in your group for any manaburned fight if at all possible unless you're already posting 99999 on every nuke. Especially true for larger groups.
Ragnarok.Figster said: »
Afania said: »
I'm pretty sure Figster is just trolling jobs :)
I actually wasn't trolling.... I was thinking about this today and I haven't seen RUN ever mentioned as a wanted tank, whm is basically the only healer, geo as a buffer. I haven't seen a brd in game in a long time, same with run. It's cool that run is a situational tank for a few nm's but does doing 4% of the content really make it comparable? If I'm wrong on these then let me know, give me some examples but I just don't see it.
[+]
Ragnarok.Figster said: »
Afania said: »
I'm pretty sure Figster is just trolling jobs :)
I actually wasn't trolling.... I was thinking about this today and I haven't seen RUN ever mentioned as a wanted tank, whm is basically the only healer, geo as a buffer. I haven't seen a brd in game in a long time, same with run. It's cool that run is a situational tank for a few nm's but does doing 4% of the content really make it comparable? If I'm wrong on these then let me know, give me some examples but I just don't see it.
Actually a lot of the Reisenjima T4 or helm NM discussion whether it's on this forum or other forums do discuss using rune for tank because of Rayke and Gambit with the mage strategy used. It really boosts MB damage, and most groups use Rune as solo tank for those. Some still use pld as well, and some use both pld and rune together when dealing with NMs like Schah etc. It depends on how big of a group is going, and the setup they use. The smaller groups tend to use rune only as tank but some of the larger groups that clear bring both. Just depends on a groups preference, and what jobs they have available.
You do not have to be a ergon rune either. There is groups that use non ergon and still get clears.
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
Fenrir.Tarowyn said: »
Kind of off topic, but I ran into this when I was updating some WS data on the JP wiki the other day.
According to some posts on gobli, CDC actually got reduced to 1.625 during the same patch that made FTP transfer across all hits. I tested it myself and the numbers seemed right but I never got around to confirming with anyone on here and I wasn't sure if anything else got changed mathwise since I last calced WS dmg so I'm not completely sure of the numbers (I also am not sure where I recorded the numbers now, lol).
Would you (or someone else) be able to test this real quick?
According to some posts on gobli, CDC actually got reduced to 1.625 during the same patch that made FTP transfer across all hits. I tested it myself and the numbers seemed right but I never got around to confirming with anyone on here and I wasn't sure if anything else got changed mathwise since I last calced WS dmg so I'm not completely sure of the numbers (I also am not sure where I recorded the numbers now, lol).
Would you (or someone else) be able to test this real quick?
Yeah, I'll test it. Give me a few.
Bandwagoners and haters alike please *** off and leave my job in peace now kthx
[+]
While you're at it, check Pyrrhic Kleos.
I'd have to cap off my DNC for that. Well, not have to, but it'd take longer as it is now. It's still at 81, I stopped playing it when healDNC stopped being a thing (RIP, still the most fun I've had in a support role). Not hard to do, but not really on my radar when I'm already putting in quite a bit of time on this. Someone else can and should step up to do some testing if they care.
[+]
An easy solution to this all is to introduce PT makeup/setup bonuses, kind of like they have in FFXIV - but more potent since in XIV they are pretty much forced to balance their pts, and DDs are much more balanced there.
So we're looking at a strong incentive to diversify our PT makeups.
(just putting examples down now to further explain the idea)
-WAR in pt: Soldier trait - increases dmg dealt by 5% for melee
-DRK in pt: Nether trait - increases haste % of all melee by 5%
-SAM in pt: Bushido trait - increases STP by 15 for all melee
-DRG in pt: Lancer's trait - increases WSDMG by 10% for all melee
-MNK in pt: Fury trait - increases critical hit rate by 10% for all melee
-Basher's trait: Available to PT when at least 1 x 1 handed melee and 1 x 2 handed melee in pt
Stats: Critical hit rate +10%, DMG dealt +5%, WSDMG +5%, Dmg taken -10% (goes above 50% cap)
So we're looking at a strong incentive to diversify our PT makeups.
(just putting examples down now to further explain the idea)
-WAR in pt: Soldier trait - increases dmg dealt by 5% for melee
-DRK in pt: Nether trait - increases haste % of all melee by 5%
-SAM in pt: Bushido trait - increases STP by 15 for all melee
-DRG in pt: Lancer's trait - increases WSDMG by 10% for all melee
-MNK in pt: Fury trait - increases critical hit rate by 10% for all melee
-Basher's trait: Available to PT when at least 1 x 1 handed melee and 1 x 2 handed melee in pt
Stats: Critical hit rate +10%, DMG dealt +5%, WSDMG +5%, Dmg taken -10% (goes above 50% cap)
Asura.Chiaia said: »
lol % based ignoring of evasion thats way to huge(esp the %s you have listed). Hence why BST Bird got nurfed to do a static number.
Ragnarok.Figster said: »
Afania said: »
I'm pretty sure Figster is just trolling jobs :)
I actually wasn't trolling.... I was thinking about this today and I haven't seen RUN ever mentioned as a wanted tank, whm is basically the only healer, geo as a buffer. I haven't seen a brd in game in a long time, same with run.
If you are not trolling, then we're probably playing a different game.
RUN, BRD, RDM and COR are being used a lot. RUN is used in mage setup, brd is used for sleep, honor march and scherzo, or when you need to stack one million buffs on melee to get required acc on reisen T3.
Ruaumoko said: »
Attuner and Target Marker cap out at 45% each so this is actually toned down quite a bit.
[+]
Asura.Cyleena said: »
Ragnarok.Figster said: »
Pld is the only tank and pld is required to have empyrean/mythic before it can be considered for a party. It doesn't even take damage most events, that's ridiculous.
Actually Rune is a very good tank and it is actually more preferred over pld in helm NM fights in Reisenjima.
We've stopped using PLD's entirely now, absolutely zero benefit because their shield block rate is floored anyway. Our typical setup is 2 RUN tanks for 3xGambit + 3xRayke, when Rayke wears they rotate and do it again, then super revit and do the whole thing all over again. COR's can often reset those JA's with random deal and with super revit the COR has two of those.
Odinz said: »
An easy solution to this all is to introduce PT makeup/setup bonuses, kind of like they have in FFXIV - but more potent since in XIV they are pretty much forced to balance their pts, and DDs are much more balanced there.
So we're looking at a strong incentive to diversify our PT makeups.
(just putting examples down now to further explain the idea)
-WAR in pt: Soldier trait - increases dmg dealt by 5% for melee
-DRK in pt: Nether trait - increases haste % of all melee by 5%
-SAM in pt: Bushido trait - increases STP by 15 for all melee
-DRG in pt: Lancer's trait - increases WSDMG by 10% for all melee
-MNK in pt: Fury trait - increases critical hit rate by 10% for all melee
-Basher's trait: Available to PT when at least 1 x 1 handed melee and 1 x 2 handed melee in pt
Stats: Critical hit rate +10%, DMG dealt +5%, WSDMG +5%, Dmg taken -10% (goes above 50% cap)
So we're looking at a strong incentive to diversify our PT makeups.
(just putting examples down now to further explain the idea)
-WAR in pt: Soldier trait - increases dmg dealt by 5% for melee
-DRK in pt: Nether trait - increases haste % of all melee by 5%
-SAM in pt: Bushido trait - increases STP by 15 for all melee
-DRG in pt: Lancer's trait - increases WSDMG by 10% for all melee
-MNK in pt: Fury trait - increases critical hit rate by 10% for all melee
-Basher's trait: Available to PT when at least 1 x 1 handed melee and 1 x 2 handed melee in pt
Stats: Critical hit rate +10%, DMG dealt +5%, WSDMG +5%, Dmg taken -10% (goes above 50% cap)
That makes sense so SE won't do any of that. The token response is "We'll look into but we can't do it"
[+]
Asura.Thorva said: »
Gruknor said: »
I hope geomancer gets a magic evasion trait for their lull in and that drk gets an acc+ trait and something to power up their gsword and scythe as dmg.
Probably get crucified for saying this, but the 2 things that would really change a lot of the balance for melee jobs, are killing the haste from MG on blu and removing the second bonus to job traits through gifts. Those 2 things alone make blu so ridiculously overpowered it isn't even funny. (not like most people know what they are doing on blu anyway, PuG blu's rarely diffusion MG and most don't use spells that help the pt, cure/erase etc. They just full time tp and cdc gear and spam without thinking about multi-step sc)
The issue with this is you'll only be punishing the blu's that love the job. The crap ones won't even notice things changed and most people won't see have their perception changed.
Leave blu alone. Nerfs suck. I miss seeing thf's do 99999 2x darkness damage. I miss seeing bsts pop revits before every fight and destroy nms. I miss rdm and mnk and drk (I don't miss sam though, never got along with sams). People need to stop crying every time a job gets good. Fix the other jobs and leave the good ones alone.
[+]
are you still pretending you have any idea how damage calculations actually work, how cute
[+]
Asura.Cyleena said: »
Afania said: »
Asura.Cyleena said: »
Ragnarok.Figster said: »
Pld is the only tank and pld is required to have empyrean/mythic before it can be considered for a party. It doesn't even take damage most events, that's ridiculous.
Actually Rune is a very good tank and it is actually more preferred over pld in helm NM fights in Reisenjima.
I'm pretty sure Figster is just trolling jobs :)
Next time he tries to troll jobs he can add Rune to the list then ^.~
would also like to add pup is a good tank as well, the super high pdt/dmg taken buff is crazy high. sure the enmity may not be as high as rune and pld but it definitely can handle the top dogs
Asura.Cyleena said: »
Ragnarok.Figster said: »
Afania said: »
I'm pretty sure Figster is just trolling jobs :)
I actually wasn't trolling.... I was thinking about this today and I haven't seen RUN ever mentioned as a wanted tank, whm is basically the only healer, geo as a buffer. I haven't seen a brd in game in a long time, same with run. It's cool that run is a situational tank for a few nm's but does doing 4% of the content really make it comparable? If I'm wrong on these then let me know, give me some examples but I just don't see it.
Actually a lot of the Reisenjima T4 or helm NM discussion whether it's on this forum or other forums do discuss using rune for tank because of Rayke and Gambit with the mage strategy used. It really boosts MB damage, and most groups use Rune as solo tank for those. Some still use pld as well, and some use both pld and rune together when dealing with NMs like Schah etc. It depends on how big of a group is going, and the setup they use. The smaller groups tend to use rune only as tank but some of the larger groups that clear bring both. Just depends on a groups preference, and what jobs they have available.
You do not have to be a ergon rune either. There is groups that use non ergon and still get clears.
This is true. :)
Our community has a few Epeolatry floating around but our core RUN's (who tank T4's the majority of the time) do fine with Aettir and Lionheart.
[+]
Siren.Sandraa said: »
The reason for the people still use PLD my group included its because Aeigis magic damage taken II. I tried Tank on WAR and DRK some NMS and got destroyed on proper DT reduction sets. I would love hear more about that RUN strategy cuz im surprised they can survive.
Holy f*ck ballz....
RUN has the highest MDB and MEVD in the game, PLD use's Aegis to be on the same level as a naked RUN, then the RUN puts on gear. If your looking to reduce magic damage, RUN absolutely crush's PLD here. The difference is shield blocks let a PLD take less physical damage from auto-attacks. This ceases to be an advantage on T4's due to their obscene level putting any shield under the 5% block rate floor. That leaves RUN taking less magic damage while also getting hit by fewer enfeebles. RUN then amplifies the group damage in two ways, first being a flat +30% increase from gambit, second being a massive boost from removing the -SDT effect NM's get from consecutive nukes via Rayke.
To give an idea I"ll use a typical three party alliance death setup.
BLM Team 1
SCH
GEO Focus + Maliase + entrust Indi-Haste
BLM 1
BLM 2
BLM 3
BLM 4
BLM Team 2
SCH
GEO Focus + Langour + entrust Indi-Haste
BLM 5
BLM 6
BLM 7
BLM 8
Tank Party
RUN 1
RUN 2 (Optional but another R/G timer is nice)
WHM 1
WHM 2 (this guy optional)
GEO Defense Bubbles (this guy optional)
COR (this guy also optional but Random deal is nice)
That's the first 2 minutes of the fight, everyone use's a Super Revit and does it all over again, then the COR can do Random Deal if you need more R/G's. That is over 2 million HP worth of damage in a very short period of time, something only possibly by abusing R/G mechanics. It becomes even more important if your not using Death as the T6's won't easily hit 99K.
[+]
All FFXI content and images © 2002-2024 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. FINAL
FANTASY is a registered trademark of Square Enix Co., Ltd.