Korpg said:
Whats the difference in the government's eyes? You are "paying" for cosmetic surgery as much as the person is "paying" for cancer. You both will pay the same premiums, you both should have the same rights. Get your facts straight.
The only vessel that introduced this cosmetic surgery/cancer dilemma was your brain when you said, "Millions more people who will pay for your cosmetic surgery and let some poor guy with cancer wait in line." I don't know if you're aware or not, but oncologists don't perform cosmetic surgery, so it's not like anyone is "cutting in line" for some all-purpose doctor.
You're not making any sense. Please reform your argument and represent it in a coherent manner.
Korpg said:
The 2 quotes you said you didn't understand who I was talking to, I was talking to you because I quoted you on it, but you didn't understand what you said, so I will skip those.
Good because, though you were talking to me, you weren't discussing any points that I made.
Korpg said:
How can they be rooted in fact yet? They haven't happened.
Precisely. They haven't happened. Never. Nada. The doomsday to private businesses that you portray when the government seeks to join a market in the economy have
never happened. Private companies still exist in them.
Korpg said:
But, I have shown you what will happen in what order by my cause/effect statment though. Read that please....
Right. You "showed" us what would unfold in Korpg's mind through imagination. Must be true...
Notice how I didn't refute with my own special super-duper cause/effect playwright?
Korpg said:
Progressive is making huge profits? Allstate too? Here's a hint, check page 233 of their annual report You are right though, State Farm did have a net profit last year, shame on them! Only 28% net profit from 2007, but still, those rich *** are stealing from the common man!Point being, The big 3 insurance companies either, for the first time LAST YEAR, reported a net loss or, in State Farm's case, reported a net profit of just 28% of their previous year's earnings.
For shame! They are taking advantage of the situation. They are thriving while everyone else is failing....
As Blinphleb has already stated, those aren't the correct insurance companies. This is a discussion about health insurance, not how much it costs you to drive a car.
Korpg said:
1 business, you showed me one bad business. How many businesses have come and gone? How many regulations have been put into place because of that fire? You are talking about 1 bad business out of every 10,000. I don't know about you, but I'm willing to live with that type of ratio from good businesses to bad.
Discussing the ratio of bad businesses/good businesses in regards to how well they adhere to the current regulations and laws is a different issue altogether. I veered off to that tangent with you in an attempt to display that doubting a business is not a blasphemy to capitalism. In fact, it is a very important process of making sure capitalism performs ideally.
I would have listed more, but it was ultimately irrelevant to do so, hence the ",etc" ending I left.
What's important with regards to private health insurance as a business is that it is one that is (and has been) failing at what it was created to do. This is an effort that has largely been off and on since Teddy Roosevelt, but has increased in intensity with the medical and economical landscape for the past 20 years.
Health insurance reigns in a free market system, and has for a great long time. It has failed. Period.
Korpg said:
These assumptions are things you can come up with yourself. These are based off of logic of human behavior. Do you honestly think we are all machines? You have to compare logic with human behavior here!
Bolded is QFT. You came up with them yourself, but they are
not based off of logic and human behavior. Rather, they are the tried-and-true smoke-screens used for the conservation of a shareholder's paycheck. Nothing more.
Korpg said:
Whats your predictions then? Everything will be all rosey and everyone will be happy with their services? You will like your healthcare and you wish that everyone opposing it will just go away?
No. My predictions are that if we throw out accusations born from our minds and not history only to retreat to our opposite corners and disappear into the woodwork that nothing will get done. Discussing things logically, coherently, and maturely while providing reasons and sources for our opinions needs to happen at some point and it might as well be now.
If you don't agree with some of the changes being discussed on capital hill, give reasons as to why without them being the foundation for a "socialist take over" conspiracy.
Korpg said:
Notice, however, that you didn't say anything about Cause/Effects numbers 1-4. Therefor you must agree that these might happen (notice I said might, because I can't fully predict the future, for all I know I could be wrong, but I'm predicting the most possible future based on past experiences and other countries's actions)...
If the "past experiences" that you're referring to are as unlikely as the rattle snake you encountered, then you should re-examine their content.
And no, I did not agree with your cause/effect playwright.
Korpg said:
I don't want to live here if we are going to live in a socialist society.
More cries of socialism. There's a reason why slide 35 of the Blind's link had these catch-phrases present:
Besides the fact that government entering a market does not equate to socialism nor does it spell doom for private companies, you have conveniently ignored the fact that what happens is more options, more choice, and more competition takes place - which doesn't sound socialist at all. (As I said before, think UPS, FedEx, USPS)
Korpg said:
There is no growth in any of that. Thats a fact! Look at Canada. Are they growing? Are they even trying? They are hanging on the tailcoat of America, trying to catch a free ride thanks to NAFTA. Look at Mexico, same thing! We move, but they ride.
I don't want to live in a society where America is heading right now. But thats happening right now!
We're not Canada. We're not China. We're not France, Germany, Norway, Switzerland, etc.
It's
not as if introducing a government option in the health insurance market is going to make us one of those other countries and, therefore, inhibit growth. And I'm not saying that as if all of "those other countries" are "bad" and we're "good." Being the USA is more dynamic than that, and it would be premature to jump the gun and say that we're all of the sudden not worth living in because we introduce a non-private entity into one of our markets.