Are Relic Useless?

a returning player here. been back a few weeks and i havent tried the newer content yet as i am busy doing ROV / atlanta. i was wondering, are my relic useless now? are mythics useless now?

i have seen people using all of these new weapons and gear etc and they look like they have a bigger damage output than most relic/mythic.

Mythics and Relics are not useless.
Mythics are by far the standerd for jobs but these where the normal ones since they came out.

You technically do not need a mythic or Relic to play. Unless its like PLD or whm or something =-=
But yes, it is correct that the new weapons have better damage on them than the relics mythics and empys, unless they are afterglowed.

If you dont have these are still a very valid place to start.

thanks a bunch. so a 119 exalibur is okay still? i have relic shield and empy shield too

Shields are more important than weapon when it comes to pld, and aegis and ochain are still in a league of their own despite not being made 119. You are probably fine using your Excalibur, but should consider getting a Burtgang for that sweet sweet physical damage taken II -18%. Also once it's afterglowed you can do some sick damage even while tanking, so I'm told.

No they aren't useless. Couldn't be further from the true. Upgrade them. In most cases they are the best weapons. This applies more so to Mythics. Skjalf loves Mjollnir 119 - III. ^^ Am working on mythic and working to upgrade relic(s) currently. There are faster / easier weapons to get [with some help] -- yes, but don't discount getting / upgrading REM at all.

The Relic and Empy shields are still the best shields without a doubt. but if you dont have a better sword. stick with excalibur

Excalibur, once upgraded does good damage. Skjalf has a friend who is a super DD RDM God who uses Almace and Excalibur. Excalibur's regen etc. are nice, but Skjalf prefers using more defensive swords. Skjalf is working to finish Excalibur 119-III as well a Burtgang from the start, but at present Flyssa +1 and Brilliance are personal weapons of choice. Of course Skjalf uses like 5+ swords on PLD... mostly initial buffing / situational-depending.
If you can get some help Nixxer is also nice once you do some RoV stuff.

Excalibur 119 III is quite nice especially now the Aftermath duration and effect are greater now with 10 Regen and 3 refresh. It also comes with a unique 269 sword and parrying skill which currently is only available to R/M/E/A weapons that are fully upgraded.

I believe those two shields are still very good. Ochain still has a huge block rate and Aegis obviously to mitigate magical damage.

However, according to a few people some of the newer item level shields @ 119 are very good but you'd have to ask someone who plays Paladin for a better idea for alternative options.

From what I know Priwen is a decent option and since November update all of the JSE equipment made using the NPC Oboro can now be augmented using either Pluton, Beitetsu and Riftborn Boulders.

The augments a Priwen gets are HP +50, Magic Evasion +50, Damage Taken -3%.
Depending on prices of the Pluton, Beitetsu and Boulders on your server you might want to check which one is cheaper before starting to augment one.

For more information about this NPC and item level JSE go here.

Aegis is absolutely irreplaceable for a PLD, but I know that Priwen is very good and supposedly Srivatsa isn't shabby, either.

In terms of weapons, Burtgang remains your best, but both Almace and Excalibur are very good now.

hmmm. big decisions to make lol. either make a burtagang from sctratch and afterglow or after glow my excalibur. ochain is 90, Aegis is 99. blewhhh. bleghh. i am totally stuck on this now lol.

also in this new update you are still required to get all the enija / nyzul points for mythic yes?

Mythic requirements remain the same, but there is now only a 1 hour cooldown on Salvage and a 10 minute recharge rate on your assault tags, so actually completing the requirements is much much faster than before.

Yes, you should get a Priwen too. That's fast and easy. Good for Phalanx and Reprisal macro... and besides its really good.

This was someone's testing:



Note this was done before augments on Priwen - so it would be even better now.

The shields are more important in my opinion.

I made both Excalibur and Burtgang and to be honest the extra physical damage taken Burtgang offers is great, especially since it goes over the base cap but...

I'm probably wrong in saying this but the difference is not that amazing. It's true you'll take less physical damage and the enmity bonus and decay slowdown is nice but I feel it's not really a huge game changer like going from normal shields to a Aegis / Ochain.

If you love using Paladin a lot, I would get a Burtgang. Especially now that with all the changes they've made to Salvage/Mythic related quests it's a lot more accessible to build one.

Plus a very boring thing called Ambascade got introduced in April, if you partake in it by yourself or with others in a group, you can use the currency that you gain from doing it and spend it on every type of Weapon related currency.

Otherwise you're probably fine with a fully upgraded Excalibur.

hmmm interesting stuff thanks guys. i think im probably swayed towards a burt. whats this Ambascade? the currency you get with that you can buy alex and and stuff with it!?

also where can i find info on these trials for afterglow? wiki does not have much on them?!

Ambuscade is great for capes. It will also be pretty nice for some 119 armor once it wraps back around to Sulevia's again in probably 3 months. I wouldn't buy Alexandrite with it. For one Alex is really easy to get since you can do Salvage solo pretty easily. Hallmarks to gil you are better off buying other things and selling them to pay for stuff than just buying alex.

Afterglow trials are the same as they were before 250 marrows, 150 scoria, 3,000 riftcinder/riftdross or you can use 10,000 of the relative upgrade stone for that weapon plutons, beitetsu, riftborn boulders. The later being preferred as it is less money/effort.

It's there~ just not where we think it should be.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Oboro

oh nice this is awesome! thanks guys. now i need to get busy!

I use my afterglow Kenkonken when I don't need really high accuracy to hit the mob. Even doing CP on apex mobs was enough of an accuracy stretch for me to switch to augmented Ohtas. That extra 25 or so skill was just no comparison to +70 acc, even after Shiromochi. If I can't hit the mob well enough to gain TP, aftermath becomes irrelevant.

I would like to just point out that you can eventually purchase everything Ambuscade has to offer in terms of monthly currency, it just takes time. If all he does is Ambuscade (which would take a very long time and be really boring), he would run out of things to buy and eventually, he's have to buy alexandrite.

So your comment is correct in that you can buy other things to sell for gil which is a better conversion than buying alex, but if you get spam-happy in the last week of a month like myself, you find yourself running out of currency to buy and alexandrite is just staring you down like "you gonna buy me or what?" =P

So many closed minds... PLD and WHM don't "Need" REMs. They are of course incredibly bloody useful and will set you above any PLD/WHM without one...

I have Aegis/Ochain, but i've tanked SR/Escha T1/2s/Ambuscade VD etc. and other stuff with other shields just for giggles. Took more damage, needed more healing, but still got the job done. O/A just make it so you take so little damage, you don't even have to watch what you are doing (or the WHM can not watch he tank, and just watch netflix... you know who you are ;) )

WHMs are often in short supply, so long as you have Empyrean 109s gear, you can get by with many of the other nice healing tools.

For the end game of the end game, where you need the "A Team" yes REMs are needed. Yet, but the time you get into those T4 Aeonic building situations, you will likely have a 119REM AGIII.

For someone who is just coming back, or a new player? It's a goal to work towards, but doesn't stop you playing those jobs. Too many people just want to skip to the end and not enjoy the journey.

The major factor is that REMs are now much easier to obtain, so they should really be a goal for anyone on the career path for any job they play.

TL;DR - REMs are ace and useful, but not essential. Play the game how you want to.

Relics are kings of the Acc game. Mythics will give you the best DPS; namely because unlike everyone else's, Mythic AM3 triggers on WSs... But Relics are generally the best nonMythic option.
(There's some exceptions like Annihilator and various Aeonics giving you the ability to make "double" Light AND Darkness; but in "most damage" terms, it's Mythics and then Relics, due to their massive Acc.)

And like preciously mentioned, Aegis is the best shield.
That doesn't mean that Ochain is now a bad shield, it's just that 99.9999999% of all endgame content will have a PLD in an Aegis. Ochain is still god of physical damage mitigation... It's just that SE has made physical damage a rare thing nowadays.
Shrivasta blows. 5% chance to annul damage is in no way equal to -83.75% MDT. Physicalwise, it's an Aegis that actually blocks...
But Priwen blocks better, and has a higher nonII DT value... AND has +50 Meva giving you a better status resist rate.
Basically Priwen is now the shield Shrivasta should have been, only without the BS gimmick (cause which is better: 0 damage 5% of the time or 16.25% damage 100% of the time) and Ochain-level physical reduction with Reprisal up.
And Priwen is barely any effort to get, compared to the gauntlet that is the Aeonic process. (I hate that fact too.)

EDIT: sometimes the shade is too dark.

let it also be said that the niche of certain relics pre-adoulin has somewhat returned, with Ragnarok being more powerful than ever. Mythics are largely still the top of the pile, because AM3 is just that good. Empyrean weapons are strong contenders these days thanks to the change to their AM of doing Triple instead of Double damage; they are going to generally be inferior to other options UNLESS you are fighting something where building AM3 is impractical. 2 Handed Relics are the kings of Accuracy, which is something that their users sorely need since Grips do not compare to the stats offered by an offhand weapon. one handers offer a nice Attack boost, as well as the benefits gained to all Relics: accuracy afforded from +27 more skill and newly tuned Aftermaths that actually entice you to pop that Relic WS here and there. Aeonics seem to be a very hit or miss bunch, and are going to largely depend on whether or not the Merit WS is the best thing for your job to be using, as well as the other options open to you.

preference is going to come down to being up to you, but any RMEA is going to be a cut above other run of the mill options.

LOL. so much to think about here. i will complete ROV and then start doing these new runs. issue is the people in my shell dont really do it as it seems more of a social. that means the JOYS of PUG and learning as i go this way :P

People like to come in on these forums and tell you what is great on paper. Every time people do a comparison between the 3 swords they assume that keeping Lv.3 AM up on burtgang is simple.
As a tank you get a lot of surprises, you get knocked back, you get paralyzed, you get terrored, you miss.. so building that 300% tp to refresh your aftermath sounds as simple as timing it right. Even with all things ideal, and perfect AM3 management/luck with Burtgang, Excal doesnt fall far behind.

In reality the consistent, less-micro-managed Excalibur is a better sword for gameplay. Sure Burtgang's potential blows Excalibur's potential away, but on the ground, in game Excalibur > Burtgang in my experience.

Also the Regen from Afterglowed Excalibur i119 III is also a form of artificial damage mitigation just like additional HP is.

I own all 3 swords and all 3 are afterglowed, nothing feels as good as Excalibur in game on PLD.

Also the base DMG gap went from 121 Exalibur vs 131 Burtgang to
Excalibur: 164 with +60 ATK
Burtgang: 165 and no offensive base stats.

There's something else people overlook constantly - much greater/easier access to TA gear. There's no gear in game that allows a mythic wielder to:
-deal 1/4th their HP 16% of the time
-deal triple dmg 13% of the time

People also like to tell you what is great on paper given certain durations of aftermath downtime. It's almost like these mysterious factors can be roughly accounted for.

"Roughly" within the margin of error of what %, consistently?

thank, this is actually really helpful. a good way of looking at things. this is helping me get my brain going lol.

Ppl seem to be skipping over this but, in terms of pld anything you really need a pld on dmg output from the pld is unimportant (barring some rare sc opening situations, we have pld savage to open sc for smn in vagary), only the defensive stats on the sword. Almace offers nothing defensively, excal offers. Regen aftermath which iss moot considering need for tp. burtgang is infinitly better offering pdt2 and enmity.

This varries server to server but cost to take 119 excal to AG is 100mil on carb (@10k/pluton). Cost in alex for base burtgang is 150mil (@5k/alex). So it's better to use the 100mil to make 2/3 of base burt than AG almace thats better switched for like some enmity non-rem sword or something 90% of the time