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269 skill weapons
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By Afania 2016-05-24 14:19:04
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Bismarck.Laurelli said: »
Afania said: »
All these people claiming the difference are small(by purposely ignore new aftermath damage and +50 stat boost), try to parse against AG Tizona + Almace blu, but you're only allowed to use skill 242 alternatives.

If you win or only 5% behind then I'll agree with you. The gap is small.

If you are more than 5% behind then you can't prove your point of gap being small.

You can keep saying "the gap is smalllll" here all day long, or play the "you just have lv 99 mentality" card, it doesn't change the fact that skill 242 DD can't compete.

Bringing out 75 era or "lv 99 mentality"(whatever that is)in this argument is ridiculous. I don't even know why is it being mentioned when it's entirely irrelevant in this argument. My argument is completely based on the numbers I see on my spreadsheet. Skill 242 weapons are just way behind.

I actually did this in SR. We were 4 melees a whm and a geo. Melees were AG Tizona BLU, AG Rag DRK, AG Apoc DRK, and me the Tanmogayi +1/Colada BLU. Tizona parsed #1, I parsed #2 behind by 1%.

Now please, don't read into this more than necessary. Everyone in that pt was skilled and with buffing time we were clearing it in under 4 min per run. The point is simply that your damage depends on a lot of factors and a 242 weapon can compete.

Also, AG Tizona/Almace is a 30% increase, yes, but that's 30% of your damage. So if you parse at 30% total damage in the fight using Tanmogayi +1/Colada, you will not parse 60% with AG Tizona/Almace. Your total will go up to 35-38% of the fight if no one else changed and if you were not benefiting from other players' afterglows in your 242 weapons.

I'm well aware that when we use the term X% number of increase, we don't mean the % of entire pt. There no need to assume Im exaggerating the number by claiming AG would parse 60% and Tan +1 only parse 30% in pt.

SR kinda favor AG almace anyways. If your competitor uses Tizona his dps would be a bit behind by trying to keep AM3 up twice in 4 min. I would be interest to hear the parse result v.s AG almace in SR, the gap should be a bit bigger on paper if both having same support and same playing skill.

No comment on your result v.s a different DD, with how blu setup works it wouldn't be fair to compare different DD job with blu in same pt.
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By Sylph.Ice 2016-05-24 15:47:21
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Bismarck.Laurelli said: »
Afania said: »
All these people claiming the difference are small(by purposely ignore new aftermath damage and +50 stat boost), try to parse against AG Tizona + Almace blu, but you're only allowed to use skill 242 alternatives.

If you win or only 5% behind then I'll agree with you. The gap is small.

If you are more than 5% behind then you can't prove your point of gap being small.

You can keep saying "the gap is smalllll" here all day long, or play the "you just have lv 99 mentality" card, it doesn't change the fact that skill 242 DD can't compete.

Bringing out 75 era or "lv 99 mentality"(whatever that is)in this argument is ridiculous. I don't even know why is it being mentioned when it's entirely irrelevant in this argument. My argument is completely based on the numbers I see on my spreadsheet. Skill 242 weapons are just way behind.

I actually did this in SR. We were 4 melees a whm and a geo. Melees were AG Tizona BLU, AG Rag DRK, AG Apoc DRK, and me the Tanmogayi +1/Colada BLU. Tizona parsed #1, I parsed #2 behind by 1%.

Now please, don't read into this more than necessary. Everyone in that pt was skilled and with buffing time we were clearing it in under 4 min per run. The point is simply that your damage depends on a lot of factors and a 242 weapon can compete.

Also, AG Tizona/Almace is a 30% increase, yes, but that's 30% of your damage. So if you parse at 30% total damage in the fight using Tanmogayi +1/Colada, you will not parse 60% with AG Tizona/Almace. Your total will go up to 35-38% of the fight if no one else changed and if you were not benefiting from other players' afterglows in your 242 weapons.

So yeah, if you can make a 269 weapon, do it. But if you can't, play well and you'll be fine. Besides, this is a 14 year old game.By now, everyone should know how to play it.

Come to Sylph. You will be extremely rare to find someone who is able to play decently.

EDIT: I forgot how to bold.
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By Asura.Saevel 2016-05-24 21:40:44
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FaeQueenCory said: »
No one is trying to say that a regular 119 weapon is equal to a 121 REAME. (Excluding REA staves and clubs...)
No one is trying to say that they are inferior either. (Excluding REA staves and clubs.)
But to try and say that there's some sort of vast gulf between them... Is just moronic.

Yes they're better.
But are they they 2~10x better than everything else like they were in the 99 era?
The hell no.

They're not even as disparate as Relics and Mythics were in the 75 era. (As in, there was a larger gap between R&M and generic weapon options then than now... But both are basically equal when juxtaposed to the rampant disparity between REMs and everything else in the 99 era.)

Of course they're superior. They've got ~25 more Acc and Atk on them naturally. And that's not even addressing Relic's massive Acc boost.
But are they gonna make you have a bad time if you don't have them?
Are they so pivotal that they MUST be made to be competitive?
The hells no. (Well except Aegis I guess.)
It's not even the difference between a 2min and a 4min run.
It's the difference between a 8min and a 10min run.
In other words: not much of a difference.
Get out of the 99 era mentality.
Especially when you *** and moan about a return to the 75 era.
(Which as for gearing paradigm and weapon choice, we've already returned to.)

Their idea of a "huge power gap" is anything over 5%.

The REMA's are 10~30% better on average depending on specific weapon and case usage. The funny thing is Afania has no idea how 2H works or they would understand that Rag's 431 delay is a bad thing and actually hurts the weapon. The Zulf I posted earlier will actually do better on Weapon skills for DRK, both Torc and Reso due to it's total stats. Rag only has a 48 accuracy advantage over it, ~24% hit rate, but Zulf has more DMG along with +WSD, +STR and +DA vs Rag's 14% crit rate on non-existent crit weapon skills. Ultimately Rag ends up being better on most things I do, since I actually bring WAR to CL130+ stuff, but the difference isn't nearly as big as people think it is. The Aganoshe actually has more accuracy then my Aeonic though it has 13 less DMG and is missing the TP Bonus +500.

Out of all the REMA'a Almace is the one that made out the best, which is why people are confusing them as having this huge power gap. CDC is BLU's best WS and everything about the Almace just enhances the job. Most REMA's don't come anywhere close to Almace's power level, and even then Almace is only on one hand and will be limited by whatever offhand you use. AG Tizona is actually a step down in power from Almace unless the fight is medium length and you start with 3000TP.
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By Afania 2016-05-24 22:31:46
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Asura.Saevel said: »
FaeQueenCory said: »
No one is trying to say that a regular 119 weapon is equal to a 121 REAME. (Excluding REA staves and clubs...)
No one is trying to say that they are inferior either. (Excluding REA staves and clubs.)
But to try and say that there's some sort of vast gulf between them... Is just moronic.

Yes they're better.
But are they they 2~10x better than everything else like they were in the 99 era?
The hell no.

They're not even as disparate as Relics and Mythics were in the 75 era. (As in, there was a larger gap between R&M and generic weapon options then than now... But both are basically equal when juxtaposed to the rampant disparity between REMs and everything else in the 99 era.)

Of course they're superior. They've got ~25 more Acc and Atk on them naturally. And that's not even addressing Relic's massive Acc boost.
But are they gonna make you have a bad time if you don't have them?
Are they so pivotal that they MUST be made to be competitive?
The hells no. (Well except Aegis I guess.)
It's not even the difference between a 2min and a 4min run.
It's the difference between a 8min and a 10min run.
In other words: not much of a difference.
Get out of the 99 era mentality.
Especially when you *** and moan about a return to the 75 era.
(Which as for gearing paradigm and weapon choice, we've already returned to.)

Their idea of a "huge power gap" is anything over 5%.

The REMA's are 10~30% better on average depending on specific weapon and case usage. The funny thing is Afania has no idea how 2H works or they would understand that Rag's 431 delay is a bad thing and actually hurts the weapon.


I didn't say a thing about Rags delay, I only ever mentioned spreadsheet result for AG Tizona and AG Almace v.s none AG alternatives. You probably confused me with someone else.

Since blu is the mainstream DD and blu legendary will be primary choice for DD players(like how people bandwagon ukon and vere in 2012, then bandwagon koga in 2014), that is the reason why I use AG blu as an example. Every DD regardless of what weapon it use, they will eventually compete with AG Blu for a DD spot.
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By Bismarck.Lothoro 2016-05-24 23:09:49
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Afania said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
FaeQueenCory said: »
No one is trying to say that a regular 119 weapon is equal to a 121 REAME. (Excluding REA staves and clubs...)
No one is trying to say that they are inferior either. (Excluding REA staves and clubs.)
But to try and say that there's some sort of vast gulf between them... Is just moronic.

Yes they're better.
But are they they 2~10x better than everything else like they were in the 99 era?
The hell no.

They're not even as disparate as Relics and Mythics were in the 75 era. (As in, there was a larger gap between R&M and generic weapon options then than now... But both are basically equal when juxtaposed to the rampant disparity between REMs and everything else in the 99 era.)

Of course they're superior. They've got ~25 more Acc and Atk on them naturally. And that's not even addressing Relic's massive Acc boost.
But are they gonna make you have a bad time if you don't have them?
Are they so pivotal that they MUST be made to be competitive?
The hells no. (Well except Aegis I guess.)
It's not even the difference between a 2min and a 4min run.
It's the difference between a 8min and a 10min run.
In other words: not much of a difference.
Get out of the 99 era mentality.
Especially when you *** and moan about a return to the 75 era.
(Which as for gearing paradigm and weapon choice, we've already returned to.)

Their idea of a "huge power gap" is anything over 5%.

The REMA's are 10~30% better on average depending on specific weapon and case usage. The funny thing is Afania has no idea how 2H works or they would understand that Rag's 431 delay is a bad thing and actually hurts the weapon.


I didn't say a thing about Rags delay, I only ever mentioned spreadsheet result for AG Tizona and AG Almace v.s none AG alternatives. You probably confused me with someone else.

Since blu is the mainstream DD and blu legendary will be primary choice for DD players(like how people bandwagon ukon and vere in 2012, then bandwagon koga in 2014), that is the reason why I use AG blu as an example. Every DD regardless of what weapon it use, they will eventually compete with AG Blu for a DD spot.

Why are we still talking about competition for DD spots. Why. Are there constant PUG shouts on your server? Because there rarely are any on Bismarck. And not to mention, these PUG shouts are for material you wouldn't need competition for in the first place. "Oh hey, thanks for sending me a tell, let me get a full background check to see if you have any 269 skill weapons first... then ill get back to you." Really?

Not to mention, this whole 269 skill weapons will be "required" for the future depends on the whole premise that SE won't release new 269 skill weapons in the near future! If SE releases more powerful weapons than RME, which they have done many times in the past, all of this "required" 269 skill weapons becomes so obsolete.
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By Asura.Saevel 2016-05-24 23:16:33
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Bismarck.Lothoro said: »
Why are we still talking about competition for DD spots. Why

Because he wants to feel special? Not sure since none of his arguments are valid. There is a reason I blocked him a long time ago.

There are always shouts on Asura and not once do they mention REMA 269's. The content that you would bring melee's to doesn't need them to be completed quickly. The content that they ~might~ be a requirement for, you don't bring melee's to in the first place.

I'm the guy who's constantly pushing to bring melee's to high tier content, the one forming parties and seeing how high I can push the bar, and even I don't see them as a requirement in any sense. It's the same situation as HQ abjuration gear, really nice to have but no where near needed due to augmented gear existing.
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By Afania 2016-05-24 23:59:08
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Bismarck.Lothoro said: »
Why are we still talking about competition for DD spots. Why

Because he wants to feel special? Not sure since none of his arguments are valid. There is a reason I blocked him a long time ago.

There are always shouts on Asura and not once do they mention REMA 269's. The content that you would bring melee's to doesn't need them to be completed quickly. The content that they ~might~ be a requirement for, you don't bring melee's to in the first place.

I'm the guy who's constantly pushing to bring melee's to high tier content, the one forming parties and seeing how high I can push the bar, and even I don't see them as a requirement in any sense. It's the same situation as HQ abjuration gear, really nice to have but no where near needed due to augmented gear existing.

FYI, people still do melee setup for Maju and acc is relevant on that lv. But that isn't important anymore. At this point I am convinced that all you want is to win the internet argument, by keep twisting my points into "you just wanna be special" or "you have lv 99 mentality". You even went as far as putting words in my mouth by claiming I said something about Rag, which I didn't. I'm not sure which post of mine ever mention anything about being special? In this thread I only ever say if you don't have AG you will be way behind as a DD and less likely to get a DD spot, which is fact.

All that "you just wanna be special" talk came from someone with multiple AG weapons, bragged about his parse result, and constantly talk ***about peoples DD ability on forum all the time, seems very ironic to me anyways.

Because people like you will never understand there are other DD players out there don't have AG, and won't be able to compete with cool kids with AG, will be made fun of or get laugh at when they can't DD well.

THAT is what I meant by competition. When I mentioned competition I didn't meant people will stand there shout for 2hr for an AG. I meant DD with potential to parse high(owns AG) will get all sorts of privilege that inferior DD won't have.

And yes there is competition in DD spot in FFXI, it always has. The DD role has it's competitive nature by it's own. Back when ls do events as a group whoever can't parse high or don't have good gear has to play mages. When multiple DD send tell whoever has highest rep as a DD gets invite. People with good gear and parse high brag about their dmg on forums, whoever can't DD gets laughed at between close friends.

That is bloody fact of FFXI community, DD are competing with each other one way or another. If you deny it you're either blind, pretending you don't see it, or only play with close friends.

In fact we have one person in this thread has a record of talk ***behind other players DD ability because he can DD very well. Your ability to DD gives you the bragging right and the right talk ***about other DD inferior to you, now you still tell me there are no "competition" between DDs? Get real.
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By Afania 2016-05-25 00:37:20
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Bismarck.Lothoro said: »
Afania said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
FaeQueenCory said: »
No one is trying to say that a regular 119 weapon is equal to a 121 REAME. (Excluding REA staves and clubs...)
No one is trying to say that they are inferior either. (Excluding REA staves and clubs.)
But to try and say that there's some sort of vast gulf between them... Is just moronic.

Yes they're better.
But are they they 2~10x better than everything else like they were in the 99 era?
The hell no.

They're not even as disparate as Relics and Mythics were in the 75 era. (As in, there was a larger gap between R&M and generic weapon options then than now... But both are basically equal when juxtaposed to the rampant disparity between REMs and everything else in the 99 era.)

Of course they're superior. They've got ~25 more Acc and Atk on them naturally. And that's not even addressing Relic's massive Acc boost.
But are they gonna make you have a bad time if you don't have them?
Are they so pivotal that they MUST be made to be competitive?
The hells no. (Well except Aegis I guess.)
It's not even the difference between a 2min and a 4min run.
It's the difference between a 8min and a 10min run.
In other words: not much of a difference.
Get out of the 99 era mentality.
Especially when you *** and moan about a return to the 75 era.
(Which as for gearing paradigm and weapon choice, we've already returned to.)

Their idea of a "huge power gap" is anything over 5%.

The REMA's are 10~30% better on average depending on specific weapon and case usage. The funny thing is Afania has no idea how 2H works or they would understand that Rag's 431 delay is a bad thing and actually hurts the weapon.


I didn't say a thing about Rags delay, I only ever mentioned spreadsheet result for AG Tizona and AG Almace v.s none AG alternatives. You probably confused me with someone else.

Since blu is the mainstream DD and blu legendary will be primary choice for DD players(like how people bandwagon ukon and vere in 2012, then bandwagon koga in 2014), that is the reason why I use AG blu as an example. Every DD regardless of what weapon it use, they will eventually compete with AG Blu for a DD spot.

Why are we still talking about competition for DD spots. Why. Are there constant PUG shouts on your server? Because there rarely are any on Bismarck. And not to mention, these PUG shouts are for material you wouldn't need competition for in the first place. "Oh hey, thanks for sending me a tell, let me get a full background check to see if you have any 269 skill weapons first... then ill get back to you." Really?

Not to mention, this whole 269 skill weapons will be "required" for the future depends on the whole premise that SE won't release new 269 skill weapons in the near future! If SE releases more powerful weapons than RME, which they have done many times in the past, all of this "required" 269 skill weapons becomes so obsolete.

Unless you can outparse AG DD with a skill 242 weapon, you can't join elite cool kids club and have to play mages so they can DD. I wonder if Saevel ever plays GEO in melee content.


tl;dr: Can you clear content with skill 242 weapons? Yes.

Will your ls or group leader more likely to ask skill 242 DD to play mages or invite another skill 269 weapon DD? Definitely yes.

In that case there is competition in DD spot, they don't necessary have to shout for it or reject every single skill 242 DD. But competition still exists.
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 Bismarck.Lothoro
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By Bismarck.Lothoro 2016-05-25 07:32:01
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Well, Afania said you have to play mages and can't DD if you can't outparse an afterglow DD. Better make those afterglow weapons everyone! It's clearly required!
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2016-05-25 08:14:55
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Bismarck.Lothoro said: »
Well, Afania said you have to play mages and can't DD if you can't outparse an afterglow DD. Better make those afterglow weapons everyone! It's clearly required!

Haha yeah he's clearly talking out his backside now.
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By Creaucent Alazrin 2016-05-25 08:25:16
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Some people clearly can't see the point that's being made.

Let's just take a pt of 6 people out of a linkshell of let's say 13 and all are 1200 JP or higher or capped.

LS roster is.
DRK - none AG has rag top gear also has geo leveled
WHM - no other jobs career whm with mythic 119 not AG.
RDM - Also has cor/geo/sch leveled and decently geared knows how to play all 4 well
BLU - AG tizona and almace also has geo and cor leveled has blm mastered and geared.
DRK - AG'd all the weapons and has cor leveled
PLD - aegis
DNC - nothing special also has whm again nothing special
THF - TH ***** no reams
BLM - top end gear
WAR - non AG top gear working on mythic/aeonic
SAM - AG koga top gear.
SAM - just got back for a year's break has some abj gear and really wants to do events.
BLU - has tamnogayi+1 main hand and top end gear.

So in a pt of 6 you will need a healer some supports and rest DDs and depending on what you are fighting a tank.

So melee
P1 - WHM the career with mythic.
P2 - GEO the drk who has rag just no AG
P3 - RDM/COR
P4 - BLU with AGs
P5 - SAM with AG
P6 - PLD if needed if not drk with AG.

Now as you can see that would be the best set up out of that LS they would get the kills done quickest for content you take melees to. So the non AG members get left behind is this fair, no, is it efficient and quick, yes. You are always going to have more DDs then you do DD spots in a party because who doesn't like smacking the crap out of a mob.

The people who suffer are the people who haven't put the effort, or cant due to getting old and having less play time, into their gear.

Now, trolls in the thread, let's get this straight Afania hasn't said it's required to have an AG. If the ls has access to multiple players with AGs and you don't either get an AG, level support or sit the **** down on the bench till the big boys have had their fun.

Like I said it's not fair as a decently gear player with the best 242 possible can do respectable damage just not as much as an AG if as equally skilled.

It's what people have always done the person with the biggest damage gets the slot first then you fill out from there.
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2016-05-25 08:52:55
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Clearly that LS needs an Epeolatry Rune. Preferably with 269 skill.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2016-05-25 08:54:51
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Creaucent Alazrin said: »
LS roster is.
DRK - none AG has rag top gear also has geo leveled
WHM - no other jobs career whm with mythic 119 not AG.
RDM - Also has cor/geo/sch leveled and decently geared knows how to play all 4 well
BLU - AG tizona and almace also has geo and cor leveled has blm mastered and geared.
DRK - AG'd all the weapons and has cor leveled
PLD - aegis
DNC - nothing special also has whm again nothing special
THF - TH ***** no reams
BLM - top end gear
WAR - non AG top gear working on mythic/aeonic
SAM - AG koga top gear.
SAM - just got back for a year's break has some abj gear and really wants to do events.
BLU - has tamnogayi+1 main hand and top end gear.

So in a pt of 6 you will need a healer some supports and rest DDs and depending on what you are fighting a tank.

So melee
P1 - WHM the career with mythic.
P2 - GEO the drk who has rag just no AG
P3 - RDM/COR
P4 - BLU with AGs
P5 - SAM with AG
P6 - PLD if needed if not drk with AG.

Now as you can see that would be the best set up out of that LS they would get the kills done quickest for content you take melees to.

Why do you think they would be the fastest? Those jobs aren't going to do the most damage, depending on the content.
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By Bismarck.Lothoro 2016-05-25 08:56:49
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Creaucent Alazrin said: »
Some people clearly can't see the point that's being made.

Let's just take a pt of 6 people out of a linkshell of let's say 13 and all are 1200 JP or higher or capped.

LS roster is.
DRK - none AG has rag top gear also has geo leveled
WHM - no other jobs career whm with mythic 119 not AG.
RDM - Also has cor/geo/sch leveled and decently geared knows how to play all 4 well
BLU - AG tizona and almace also has geo and cor leveled has blm mastered and geared.
DRK - AG'd all the weapons and has cor leveled
PLD - aegis
DNC - nothing special also has whm again nothing special
THF - TH ***** no reams
BLM - top end gear
WAR - non AG top gear working on mythic/aeonic
SAM - AG koga top gear.
SAM - just got back for a year's break has some abj gear and really wants to do events.
BLU - has tamnogayi+1 main hand and top end gear.

So in a pt of 6 you will need a healer some supports and rest DDs and depending on what you are fighting a tank.

So melee
P1 - WHM the career with mythic.
P2 - GEO the drk who has rag just no AG
P3 - RDM/COR
P4 - BLU with AGs
P5 - SAM with AG
P6 - PLD if needed if not drk with AG.

Now as you can see that would be the best set up out of that LS they would get the kills done quickest for content you take melees to. So the non AG members get left behind is this fair, no, is it efficient and quick, yes. You are always going to have more DDs then you do DD spots in a party because who doesn't like smacking the crap out of a mob.

The people who suffer are the people who haven't put the effort, or cant due to getting old and having less play time, into their gear.

Now, trolls in the thread, let's get this straight Afania hasn't said it's required to have an AG. If the ls has access to multiple players with AGs and you don't either get an AG, level support or sit the **** down on the bench till the big boys have had their fun.

Like I said it's not fair as a decently gear player with the best 242 possible can do respectable damage just not as much as an AG if as equally skilled.

It's what people have always done the person with the biggest damage gets the slot first then you fill out from there.

Afania said "Unless you can outparse AG DD with a skill 242 weapon, you can't join elite cool kids club and have to play mages so they can DD."

Yes. It's obvious that if you want to maximize damage, then the non-afterglow DDs get left behind. If you're doing Maju, yes, you're going to bring the best DD's possible.

This doesn't mean you need to have an AG weapon to play that job though. If you're doing Ambuscade with your ls, and one member wants to go as a non-RME DRK, are you going to tell him/her no? Are you going to say "actually, you're permanent GEO simply because my AG BLU parses higher than your non-RME DRK?" even when doing easier content like Ambuscade?

Or if you're clearing some Reisinjima T1s for Aeonic, are you going to care whether someone goes as their non-RME MNK vs a AG BLU? My point is, there's plenty of content where there doesn't need to be any kind of competition. I don't care whether it takes a few minutes longer to beat Belphegor if I have a non-RME MNK than an AG BLU, and I doubt many other people care as well.
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 Asura.Foreverj
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By Asura.Foreverj 2016-05-25 09:10:40
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Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
Clearly that LS needs an Epeolatry Rune. Preferably with 269 skill.

Your service is needed in that make believe linkshell. Don't think about going Idris geo either u are permanent rune.
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By Sylph.Shadowlina 2016-05-25 09:21:00
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Can i just point out,
just because you have an afterglow on that job doesn't mean your the best at that job and everyone should praise you as a saint. Afterglows are more an accessory anyways. Helpful yes, Mean that your more than likely going to play that job? probably yes.
Do they mark your skill as an end-game player? No, they mean you can farm gil.
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 Asura.Foreverj
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By Asura.Foreverj 2016-05-25 09:25:01
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Bismarck.Lothoro said: »
Well, Afania said you have to play mages and can't DD if you can't outparse an afterglow DD. Better make those afterglow weapons everyone! It's clearly required!

Haha yeah he's clearly talking out his backside now.

It's not that hard to see his point. If ag melee is available u take them. If ag melee not available and 242 weapon is available u take 242 weapon rather then wait for ag. Simple as pie.

If yr linkshell or group has many ag Weapons available then make one yrself or play support. Again simple as pie.
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 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2016-05-25 09:28:34
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Asura.Foreverj said: »
Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
Clearly that LS needs an Epeolatry Rune. Preferably with 269 skill.

Your service is needed in that make believe linkshell. Don't think about going Idris geo either u are permanent rune.

Does that mean you're coming too?
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By Afania 2016-05-25 10:39:10
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Bismarck.Lothoro said: »
Creaucent Alazrin said: »
Some people clearly can't see the point that's being made.

Let's just take a pt of 6 people out of a linkshell of let's say 13 and all are 1200 JP or higher or capped.

LS roster is.
DRK - none AG has rag top gear also has geo leveled
WHM - no other jobs career whm with mythic 119 not AG.
RDM - Also has cor/geo/sch leveled and decently geared knows how to play all 4 well
BLU - AG tizona and almace also has geo and cor leveled has blm mastered and geared.
DRK - AG'd all the weapons and has cor leveled
PLD - aegis
DNC - nothing special also has whm again nothing special
THF - TH ***** no reams
BLM - top end gear
WAR - non AG top gear working on mythic/aeonic
SAM - AG koga top gear.
SAM - just got back for a year's break has some abj gear and really wants to do events.
BLU - has tamnogayi+1 main hand and top end gear.

So in a pt of 6 you will need a healer some supports and rest DDs and depending on what you are fighting a tank.

So melee
P1 - WHM the career with mythic.
P2 - GEO the drk who has rag just no AG
P3 - RDM/COR
P4 - BLU with AGs
P5 - SAM with AG
P6 - PLD if needed if not drk with AG.

Now as you can see that would be the best set up out of that LS they would get the kills done quickest for content you take melees to. So the non AG members get left behind is this fair, no, is it efficient and quick, yes. You are always going to have more DDs then you do DD spots in a party because who doesn't like smacking the crap out of a mob.

The people who suffer are the people who haven't put the effort, or cant due to getting old and having less play time, into their gear.

Now, trolls in the thread, let's get this straight Afania hasn't said it's required to have an AG. If the ls has access to multiple players with AGs and you don't either get an AG, level support or sit the **** down on the bench till the big boys have had their fun.

Like I said it's not fair as a decently gear player with the best 242 possible can do respectable damage just not as much as an AG if as equally skilled.

It's what people have always done the person with the biggest damage gets the slot first then you fill out from there.

Afania said "Unless you can outparse AG DD with a skill 242 weapon, you can't join elite cool kids club and have to play mages so they can DD."

Yes. It's obvious that if you want to maximize damage, then the non-afterglow DDs get left behind. If you're doing Maju, yes, you're going to bring the best DD's possible.

This doesn't mean you need to have an AG weapon to play that job though. If you're doing Ambuscade with your ls, and one member wants to go as a non-RME DRK, are you going to tell him/her no? Are you going to say "actually, you're permanent GEO simply because my AG BLU parses higher than your non-RME DRK?" even when doing easier content like Ambuscade?

Or if you're clearing some Reisinjima T1s for Aeonic, are you going to care whether someone goes as their non-RME MNK vs a AG BLU? My point is, there's plenty of content where there doesn't need to be any kind of competition. I don't care whether it takes a few minutes longer to beat Belphegor if I have a non-RME MNK than an AG BLU, and I doubt many other people care as well.


Do you not understand the sarcasm when I said "you can't join elite kids club"?

Seeing you try so hard to reply by saying the same "its okay not to have AG!!!111"you probably don't. If you want to reply, at least say something new.

Oh btw, may I join your T1 pt on spark gear blu? You can still win T1 with spark gear blu anyways!!!

Anyways, seeing half the people here either keep repeating "it's okay to do less damage on DD because you can still win" or "skill is better than gear", I don't think it's worth the time to continue this discussion anymore.

I know you can win content without AG, and I know skills are important. I never say you can't win nor skill isn't important in this thread. There no need to emphasis points I agree on and didn't make. I only said it's hard to compete as a DD without AG. And a lot of times people will prefer someone that can DD better (and give them more FFXI privileges)if they have a choice, which is fact.

But good job for missing my point, over and over.
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By fillerbunny9 2016-05-25 10:55:25
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Bismarck.Lothoro said: »
Or if you're clearing some Reisinjima T1s for Aeonic, are you going to care whether someone goes as their non-RME MNK vs a AG BLU? My point is, there's plenty of content where there doesn't need to be any kind of competition. I don't care whether it takes a few minutes longer to beat Belphegor if I have a non-RME MNK than an AG BLU, and I doubt many other people care as well.

Actually, people ARE going to care, because if you are going to go plow through an entire tier or two of mobs, you are going to buy the 1 hour KI and blast through as many as possible. Folks are going to want that efficiency, because you want to get that done as fast as you can while waiting for your ??? to respawn to pop the next NM, etc. Sure, lolSilt, but the fact remains, most people want to maximize their efficiency, in the face of needing to wait for someone to go re-get a Tribulens, unexpected AFKs for bathroom breaks/drinks/snacks/whatever, etc.
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By Creaucent Alazrin 2016-05-25 11:17:16
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Bismarck.Lothoro said: »
Creaucent Alazrin said: »
Some people clearly can't see the point that's being made.

Let's just take a pt of 6 people out of a linkshell of let's say 13 and all are 1200 JP or higher or capped.

LS roster is.
DRK - none AG has rag top gear also has geo leveled
WHM - no other jobs career whm with mythic 119 not AG.
RDM - Also has cor/geo/sch leveled and decently geared knows how to play all 4 well
BLU - AG tizona and almace also has geo and cor leveled has blm mastered and geared.
DRK - AG'd all the weapons and has cor leveled
PLD - aegis
DNC - nothing special also has whm again nothing special
THF - TH ***** no reams
BLM - top end gear
WAR - non AG top gear working on mythic/aeonic
SAM - AG koga top gear.
SAM - just got back for a year's break has some abj gear and really wants to do events.
BLU - has tamnogayi+1 main hand and top end gear.

So in a pt of 6 you will need a healer some supports and rest DDs and depending on what you are fighting a tank.

So melee
P1 - WHM the career with mythic.
P2 - GEO the drk who has rag just no AG
P3 - RDM/COR
P4 - BLU with AGs
P5 - SAM with AG
P6 - PLD if needed if not drk with AG.

Now as you can see that would be the best set up out of that LS they would get the kills done quickest for content you take melees to. So the non AG members get left behind is this fair, no, is it efficient and quick, yes. You are always going to have more DDs then you do DD spots in a party because who doesn't like smacking the crap out of a mob.

The people who suffer are the people who haven't put the effort, or cant due to getting old and having less play time, into their gear.

Now, trolls in the thread, let's get this straight Afania hasn't said it's required to have an AG. If the ls has access to multiple players with AGs and you don't either get an AG, level support or sit the **** down on the bench till the big boys have had their fun.

Like I said it's not fair as a decently gear player with the best 242 possible can do respectable damage just not as much as an AG if as equally skilled.

It's what people have always done the person with the biggest damage gets the slot first then you fill out from there.

Afania said "Unless you can outparse AG DD with a skill 242 weapon, you can't join elite cool kids club and have to play mages so they can DD."

Yes. It's obvious that if you want to maximize damage, then the non-afterglow DDs get left behind. If you're doing Maju, yes, you're going to bring the best DD's possible.

This doesn't mean you need to have an AG weapon to play that job though. If you're doing Ambuscade with your ls, and one member wants to go as a non-RME DRK, are you going to tell him/her no? Are you going to say "actually, you're permanent GEO simply because my AG BLU parses higher than your non-RME DRK?" even when doing easier content like Ambuscade?

Or if you're clearing some Reisinjima T1s for Aeonic, are you going to care whether someone goes as their non-RME MNK vs a AG BLU? My point is, there's plenty of content where there doesn't need to be any kind of competition. I don't care whether it takes a few minutes longer to beat Belphegor if I have a non-RME MNK than an AG BLU, and I doubt many other people care as well.

I see the butthurt has someone been turned down for doing low dps? There there, there there.

Anyway ambuscade is easy stuff and not what anyone is talking about for this but yes id want it dead asap so we can then queue back up.
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 Bismarck.Lothoro
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By Bismarck.Lothoro 2016-05-25 11:43:04
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Creaucent Alazrin said: »
Bismarck.Lothoro said: »
Creaucent Alazrin said: »
Some people clearly can't see the point that's being made.

Let's just take a pt of 6 people out of a linkshell of let's say 13 and all are 1200 JP or higher or capped.

LS roster is.
DRK - none AG has rag top gear also has geo leveled
WHM - no other jobs career whm with mythic 119 not AG.
RDM - Also has cor/geo/sch leveled and decently geared knows how to play all 4 well
BLU - AG tizona and almace also has geo and cor leveled has blm mastered and geared.
DRK - AG'd all the weapons and has cor leveled
PLD - aegis
DNC - nothing special also has whm again nothing special
THF - TH ***** no reams
BLM - top end gear
WAR - non AG top gear working on mythic/aeonic
SAM - AG koga top gear.
SAM - just got back for a year's break has some abj gear and really wants to do events.
BLU - has tamnogayi+1 main hand and top end gear.

So in a pt of 6 you will need a healer some supports and rest DDs and depending on what you are fighting a tank.

So melee
P1 - WHM the career with mythic.
P2 - GEO the drk who has rag just no AG
P3 - RDM/COR
P4 - BLU with AGs
P5 - SAM with AG
P6 - PLD if needed if not drk with AG.

Now as you can see that would be the best set up out of that LS they would get the kills done quickest for content you take melees to. So the non AG members get left behind is this fair, no, is it efficient and quick, yes. You are always going to have more DDs then you do DD spots in a party because who doesn't like smacking the crap out of a mob.

The people who suffer are the people who haven't put the effort, or cant due to getting old and having less play time, into their gear.

Now, trolls in the thread, let's get this straight Afania hasn't said it's required to have an AG. If the ls has access to multiple players with AGs and you don't either get an AG, level support or sit the **** down on the bench till the big boys have had their fun.

Like I said it's not fair as a decently gear player with the best 242 possible can do respectable damage just not as much as an AG if as equally skilled.

It's what people have always done the person with the biggest damage gets the slot first then you fill out from there.

Afania said "Unless you can outparse AG DD with a skill 242 weapon, you can't join elite cool kids club and have to play mages so they can DD."

Yes. It's obvious that if you want to maximize damage, then the non-afterglow DDs get left behind. If you're doing Maju, yes, you're going to bring the best DD's possible.

This doesn't mean you need to have an AG weapon to play that job though. If you're doing Ambuscade with your ls, and one member wants to go as a non-RME DRK, are you going to tell him/her no? Are you going to say "actually, you're permanent GEO simply because my AG BLU parses higher than your non-RME DRK?" even when doing easier content like Ambuscade?

Or if you're clearing some Reisinjima T1s for Aeonic, are you going to care whether someone goes as their non-RME MNK vs a AG BLU? My point is, there's plenty of content where there doesn't need to be any kind of competition. I don't care whether it takes a few minutes longer to beat Belphegor if I have a non-RME MNK than an AG BLU, and I doubt many other people care as well.

I see the butthurt has someone been turned down for doing low dps? There there, there there.

Anyway ambuscade is easy stuff and not what anyone is talking about for this but yes id want it dead asap so we can then queue back up.

I'm butthurt for low DPS? Not really seeing how you jumped to that conclusion. I'm all for killing as fast as possible. And yet you completely ignored my point about letting ls members or friends go as a job they want to play as a change of pace.

Sure, most of the time you maximize DPS on whatever easy content you're doing. Are you going to tell your DD "no, you're not allowed to bring your non-RME MNK to this Belphegor clear this one time, you must be on AG BLU for everything"? Failed to address the sole point I was making. I guess you think each player should only play as the one DD they have that does the max damage, and nothing else. Oh well.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2016-05-25 11:52:34
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Sylph.Shadowlina said: »
Can i just point out,
just because you have an afterglow on that job doesn't mean your the best at that job and everyone should praise you as a saint. Afterglows are more an accessory anyways. Helpful yes, Mean that your more than likely going to play that job? probably yes.
Do they mark your skill as an end-game player? No, they mean you can farm gil.

I don't really know anyone with an AG weapon that sucks at their job. Not anyone I play with anyway. But generally I agree with this.
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 Asura.Foreverj
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By Asura.Foreverj 2016-05-25 12:21:30
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Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
Asura.Foreverj said: »
Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
Clearly that LS needs an Epeolatry Rune. Preferably with 269 skill.

Your service is needed in that make believe linkshell. Don't think about going Idris geo either u are permanent rune.

Does that mean you're coming too?

I would if I have a 269 rune. But I don't and they are only a good rune away from taking over the world @@
 Asura.Foreverj
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By Asura.Foreverj 2016-05-25 12:23:48
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Am I the only one that can see afania's point? What are you guys arguing about again?
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By fonewear 2016-05-25 13:17:30
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Asura.Foreverj said: »
Am I the only one that can see afania's point? What are you guys arguing about again?

I don't know something about weapons and stuff.
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By Afania 2016-05-25 13:19:21
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Bismarck.Lothoro said: »
Sure, most of the time you maximize DPS on whatever easy content you're doing. Are you going to tell your DD "no, you're not allowed to bring your non-RME MNK to this Belphegor clear this one time, you must be on AG BLU for everything"? Failed to address the sole point I was making. I guess you think each player should only play as the one DD they have that does the max damage, and nothing else. Oh well.


No one is failing to address your point, the issue is that you are trying to use personal circumstances in a discussion to support your argument. Then start drama with whoever tries to leave personal circumstances out in the discussion.

The main point of this has been made on page 2 by more than 1 person, which is none AG DD would be behind and harder to get a DD spot.

Of course you may still ended up getting invite on none AG DD or even sparks DD because you have friends, or because you are leaders girlfriend, or because you always bring good luck to drops, or whatever reasons you have.

But those are personal circumstances that it varies depends on individual. When there's a discussion about who gets invite who doesn't with a tons of stranger on the forums, about a situation that you may pt with strangers, it's not possible to include every single personal circumstances in the discussion. Otherwise we won't get a conclusion because every players are different.

I can sit here generating 100 reasons to invite a none AG DD as a leader, doesn't change the fact that the next pt lead he encounter may tell him to change job, because my reasons to invite a none AG DD may not be appealing to another pt lead. The only reason to invite A DD over B thats universally appealing to most if not all pt lead is the reason that leaves personal circumstances out, which is the ability to do more damage.

If you leave the friend/girlfriend/good karma/good luck on drops/playing skills or whatever personal reasons that you have that get you a DD spot out, the only conclusion for this DD spot discussion is skill 269 gets invite over skill 242 DDs because they do a whole lot more damage.

Like that "what job is sought after" discussion, the main(and the most important point) has been made on 1st page, then it somehow attracted one million AH trolls that just want to throw a few comments that's partially related to the topic and start drama about it. While the main point of discussion should be done on 1st page already.

I meant, you already recognized that when we said "DD needs AG to compete" we didn't mean you need AG to win pages ago, why are you still here generating as many excuses to invite other DD as possible, including something like "but, but I want to play my none REM MNK instead!"

If you want to play none AG MNK over AG BLU with friends, nobody is gonna stop you. But you can't use this as a reason to convince people that don't know you to invite a none AG MNK over AG BLU.
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By Afania 2016-05-25 13:23:38
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Asura.Foreverj said: »
Am I the only one that can see afania's point? What are you guys arguing about again?


Typical AH drama. Someone made a point on 1st page then attracted one million people tries to start a fight by leaving a partially related comment that really has nothing to do with the original statement.
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