269 Skill Weapons

Depend on SEs plan with endgame content after 1-2 years. If FFXI is "done" then we may not see anymore skill 269 weapons.

Currently the gap between skill 242 weapon and skill 269 are just way too huge, and they're as easy as lv 90 empyrean in abyssea with all that campaign going on. In the end any DD willing to dedicate some time would have at least one of them, those without can't really compete. After 1 year those weapon may become the minimum requirement to compete on DD jobs.

In the future I see DD job won't get invite without one, just because they can't compete with armies of bandwagon afterglow DDs. SE may attempt to fix that by releasing other skill 269 none REMA alternatives.

Probably true, but if it's really done how many folks do you figure will even still be around at that point

I really don't see it being at the point where you can't get an invite without one... that's a pretty big assumption. Current content does not require any 269 skill weapons, and until SE does decide to release that level of content, I wouldn't jump to conclusions.

Pretty sure the whole point of the 269 upgrade was to definitively put RMEAs above everything else. As such, I doubt we'll ever see non-RMEA 269 skill weapons.

What is "required" is only the first barrier to entry. Once you get past that, you're competing against every other person who's trying to fill that party slot. How many of them currently have 269 skill weapons? How many of them will have 269 skill weapons six months from now, or this time next year?

The DD weapons in particular are a pretty big upgrade for the most part, even over their 119v1 counterparts. They're only going to become more common with time. At some point, not having a 269 skill weapon will put you behind the curve.

Oh it will definitely put you behind the curve. But to the point of being required? I'd wait until SE releases content to that level of difficulty to say that.

If you're making an UNM 135 pt and shout for a blu, 3 blu sent tell, 2 of them has afterflow and 2100 jp, 1 of them don't. You don't know any of them and have to pick 2 out of 3, who will you pick?

The more reasonable answer is pick afterglow DDs.

Or, you're making UNM 135 pt and decided to look at your ls and friendlist for blu spot before you shout for randoms. Out of 10 friends currently online, 5 has blu leveled, 2 of them has afterglow weapon. Who will you send tell first?

Again, the more reasonable answer is to ask friends with AG weapons first.

Can you clear UNM 135 fight without AG weapons? Is it the difference between 3 min fight or 1.5 min? Yes. But why do you want to build a pt to kill an NM in 3 min when you have the option to kill it in 1.5?

It's just simple supply and demand.

SE already has released content at that level of difficulty. We just use mages for it instead because they don't need RMEAs to perform at the necessary level.

I think we are taking different interpretations of the word "required". My point was for a PuG looking to do Maju, a DD with or without RME can do that. My LS did it before upgrades, and it is in no way "required" to have an RME to clear it.

In terms of damage, RME blows most other competitive weapons out of the water. If a group shouting for pickup group says "RME only" and it's "required" in that context, sure. But as for as content that needs RME to beat it, I would again say to wait until SE releases that level of difficulty. For all we know, SE could release non-RME skill 269 items within a couple of months. I dont think anyone saw the Adoulin weapons that completely voided RME a couple years back.

No, we're taking exactly the same interpretation of "required". The difference is in how we value its significance. What is required is actually not the most important consideration here.

You have two DDs competing for the final slot in your party. One of them uses a 242 weapon, the other has a 269. Which are you most likely going to invite?

That is why having a 269 weapon will be important in the days to come.

Back in VW era, none of the content "needs" empy, it's lolVW after all.

And yet every PUG shout for empy DD only.

It wasn't required to win and yet PUG ask for it. FFXI 2016 is the same. People will ask for it or proceed to invite someone else, making it required to join pt even though it's not needed to win.

Well, this is dumb. Required in the sense of getting that final slot in a pick up group? I completely agree with you.

Whoever has a brain because at the end of the day, they can all clear the content. If we're talking randoms, unless their gear doesn't make sense, 242 vs 269 has the same credibility in my eyes given both can clear said content.

Seriously, the game isn't designed around RME III and whoever has been playing this game for some time knows very well that the players able to make money are generally not the same as the ones able to play the game, no matter how brain-dead it has become.

As said above, in 6/12 months we'll most likely see the first plebs being anal about DDs having a RME III or not. It all depends how fast it'll become the norm for plebs.

Not to mention that SE could release 269 skill weapons whenever they feel like it. I hope they don't, because all the beitetsu farming i'm currently doing then becomes a lot less relevant. But, they could. It's SE. They've made very unexpected decisions before

Building a pt aiming to be as efficient as possible is not the same as being "anal" about REM III.

Standing there shout for 3hr for REM III DD is being anal about it, send tell to invite AG DD first to save a few min every run is not.

Also this is DD job, not mage stunner tank whatever, when it comes to the value of this job 90% is about hitting as hard as possible. It's really hard to *** up DDs as long as their gears good, and there are very little reason to pick skill 242 DD over skill 269 one unless that person brings bad luck to drop everytime.

Agreed.

100% of what you do in a MMO should be done with immediate pleasure in mind. Otherwise you're going to join the people that QQ that their work is now useless. It's the journey that matters, not the start/finish.

Being efficient and being a retard are two very different things. I explain in my previous post what a retard would do, which is obviously not what someone efficient would.

That being said, seeing the state of the game, if you have to pick within your friends and you pick anally, you are basically being HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE. Once you reach the point where 100% of your friendlist can clear a specific content, there is no reason not to call any friend, if not all, rather than a select few. It's called being an *** if you do so, but hey, aren't we all.
It's the same as calling a friend instead of a random that did send you a tell, with said random being miiiiles above said friend in term of quality of play, and so on.

Both can clear the content with relatively very little difference in time/damage done. Literally who the *** cares?

You're playing a game with the same 30 people every single day. Why would you go out of your way to be an *** to 15 of them? Because they will kill something 2min slower?

Unless there is a content that is 269 club only, who the *** cares. Literally who. And if there is one, then nobody will care again because it'll be straight forward.

So again, if you care, if you make so much a fuss about some dude making a run 30sec faster, you are being anal. That's the very basic of it. If your group will destroy the event anyway, then carry the dude that has a single digit % power decrease over the other. Seriously, don't be a shitter.

You are exaggerating the definition of being an ***.

Inviting skill 269 DD over skill 242 one is not being an ***.

The definition of being an ***: tell none REM III DD "you suck", right in their face.

Send a tell to skill 269 DD and invite them to event without saying anything negative is not being an *** at all.

If you organize events, you don't need to care nor go out of your way to make a fuss over REM III. After 1 year those DD will be everywhere and when you can just head out of mog house and bump into one every 10 sec, you'll just get a handful of them fighting for the last spot in pt.

In that case there are no reason to tell skill 269 DD don't come then proceed to invite another guy with skill 242 weapons. Unless you're just handing out help.

Just because you don't tell people directly to their face doesn't make your mentality/actions correct.

The concept is very simple: can the event be done with 242 effortlessly?
Yes: if you even consider 269, at all, you are being anal.
No: considering 269 is natural.

It's as simple as that. You can tell people what they want, whatever, that's irrelevant. What you show people on the surface is worthless in the end because your mentality is (or isn't) natural.

At no point will they become required because anything that would require them would be something you aren't taking melee's to. I've said it many times, the highest CL you can reasonably expect to use melee's at is CL135. Anything after that has such insane stats that just surviving becomes an issue, and 269 skill weapon's won't' help you with that.

As for "competition" that argument died years ago. We are no longer at the stage of the game where dozens of players are competing for the same coveted slot and only the "absolute best geared" get chosen. Now it's all about reputation and people knowing player X is good at role Y.

So are you telling people to reject skill 269 DD instead then? In that case wouldn't it be even more of an *** not just because
you're still rejecting someone and making them sit out, but you're wasting every members time by killing the content 1.5 min slower.

I mean, when 2 DD are competing for the same spot, you do need to reject one. I don't understand the logic of rejecting skill 242 DD= being an *** but reject skill 269 DD= correct mentality? It just makes zero sense logically.

And remember, 1.5 min slower a run quickly adds up when you do 30 runs.

I don't think this mentality is "incorrect", there are lots of things a good pt lead should consider when creating parties. Personally, I value the time and happiness of entire team above everything else, being political correct is not something I would care.

Yes, you can invite skill 242 DD all day long, spend 3 min a kill instead of 1.5, made 6 pt members waste 30 min of their life when things could be done faster, and be happy with yourself because you think you've done something that's "correct", in your mind.

In the end I think actions like this is just selfish.

You just defined the meaning of competition. Having afterglowed weapons is crucial to be good at DD role. The gap is too huge.

I don't think having afterglowed main weapon is a necessary condition to be good at DD role (it helps a ton, but "necessary condition"? No).
At the same time I don't think this is what causes the stygma of some specific item being required.

The VW era has been mentioned already, and back during that "Empy DD only" shouts era, empys weren't even always the best option, especially when people were joining with lv85 or lv90 empys, but PT leaders were still getting them over other players "because empy".

So yeah, the fact that an item really makes you so much better at something (for this example: at DDing) isn't a required condition for that item to become commonly known as "necessary"



tl;dr
I don't think 269 weapons will become "Required" any time soon.
I don't think the situation is exactely the same as the VW one.
SE showed they hated that situation multiple times and I'm pretty confident they are ready to act if such a scenario should ever arise.

And don't forget to mention the even more difficulty of making one now. Almace for example. 1500 plates X 100,000 each then 60 cinders, let's make it 1,000,000 for example. Then 10,300 boulders X 8000 each. You looking at 290 million in cost at the lowest cost. Making one from scratch is mind bottling.

The days of "REMonly" are gone, and SE wants to keep them gone.

We're back in the 75era.
Sure Relics help make your DD better than nonRelic option, but there are different things that can produce results in basically good enough comparison.

Empys were only ever demanded because of how easy they were to get their WS and how, compared to a Relic, were much easier to make.
Plus even in a bad player's hands, EmpyWSs tended to still put out decent enough numbers due to their ƒTP and mods.

Which is the other reason we'll not see that again:
Only WSs that aren't unlockable are Relics. So there's no stupid powerful WS tied to having a 121 weapon.
And aside from a very few... Relic WSs tend to blow. (Though some have good utility... Even if they aren't very good by themselves. And the mass increase in availability in WSdmg on gear helps make them not as shitty, as most are 1hit WSs. They're still worse than Empy or Mythic or Merit options... But not AS bad as they were.)

lol

"hey thanks for responding to my pug shout if you could just take a moment to click this surveymonkey.com link and fill out a quick survey on your job role and content mechanics just so we can be sure"

I've killed all of the Reisenjima T2 NM's without a single 269 weapon. In fact when they were first released our LS killed them all using a pure melee setup. To prove this point I've actually swapped out my AG Rag for a 242 GS / GAxe and still smashed them. Buffs are the critical thing you need, the more the merrier. The only REMA that could change your buff selection is 2H relics due to the amount of +acc they give. In another thread I gave the PT setup and no 269 skill weapons required.

Required? no.
Fun? Yes.
I did Almace i119 III for my blu. I love it. But I know I'll love mainhanding a Tizona, and seeing CDC animation overlaps even more.

Wait, ppl being anal about hq gear and 2dps increase now ***on 269's?