Reisenjima T4s

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Reisenjima T4s
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-04-22 18:48:31
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
I don't think anyone asking for SMN to be nerfed wants the game to be easy.. the game is easy with SMN as is, lol.

SMN is "easy mode" FFXI, the same as BST's and way back in the day RNG's. In fact when SE nerfed RNG the RNG community screamed that "End Game" would be impossible without them, it wasn't and we adapted. Every user of an OP combo is going to swear up and down that it's not "broken", that they somehow "deserve" that combo existing. There is nothing wrong with abusing a broken mechanic, just admit that it's a broken mechanic and you'll be milking it for all it's worth.
 Ragnarok.Primex
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By Ragnarok.Primex 2017-04-22 18:53:25
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Asura.Saevel said: »
In fact when SE nerfed RNG the RNG community screamed
Good. They were taking my Ridills!
Serves them right.
 Ragnarok.Zeig
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By Ragnarok.Zeig 2017-04-22 18:55:13
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Ragnarok.Primex said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
In fact when SE nerfed RNG the RNG community screamed
Good. They were taking my Ridills!
Serves them right.
My first thought was "how could you possibly nerf the Random Number Generator?"
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-04-22 21:26:16
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Ragnarok.Inx said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
Make so the JA lasts 45 secs but 5 secs cooldown?

Ummm, that'd be a buff. Conduit only last 30secs as it is.
Yes but I was comparing 30secs 0cooldown vs 45secs 5 cooldown, or something like that.
Numbers are just an example, but it could be a way to tweak things up.
Other than Astral Conduit SMN doesn't really need a nerf honestly.
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By Perdi 2017-04-22 22:26:55
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Make it so +Blood Pact damage is now +Avatar Damage and tune down all pacts accordingly. Suddenly, Pet: Haste sets have value because your avatars aren't only hitting for 100 damage per round.

SMN DPS in extended fights may even go up or at least be similar to how it is now but conduit zerg damage should be drastically reduced.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-04-22 23:31:41
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Other than Astral Conduit SMN doesn't really need a nerf honestly.

That's my point, outside of AC zergs SMN is perfectly fine. It's nice safe hate free damage, and there is a place for that in strategies.
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By Darksparksnot 2017-04-23 03:34:08
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Last time people qq over a job like this (bst) se came with the nerf, even blu is now on the wrong side by not getting new equip. While i dont use smn or plan to i dont understand why you butthurt,this is why we cant have nice things things.
 Sylph.Cherche
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By Sylph.Cherche 2017-04-23 05:16:53
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There are 13 or so DPS jobs in the game. And currently, one of them completely outclasses every single other in most(?) situations. While also being quite safe and needing less gear and support overall.
 Ragnarok.Phuoc
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By Ragnarok.Phuoc 2017-04-23 05:43:46
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Sylph.Cherche said: »
There are 13 or so DPS jobs in the game. And currently, one of them completely outclasses every single other in most(?) situations. While also being quite safe and needing less gear and support overall.

If you talking about BLU, i agree with you to some extend, blu doesnt need much support to work in content 130 and below, we have the right tools to work right without any outside buffs or even trusts but as you go high, BLU needs support like the rest of the DDs and here my friend, BLU gets beaten in the department that matters which is damage.

I'll say it every time, i like blu right now with all its flaws because along BST, its been 1 of my 2 mains since forever and needs 0 changes, if anything we need to be included in the last batches of DD gear because its getting ridiculous really, nerfing a job by not including it in the BiS gear is just not right.

And about SMN i'll stay it again, it doesnt need any change right now because its an ok job in my eyes really, they made it so you can compensate the lackluster master damage with the pet while having great aoe buffs and debuffs but if we go picky, right now people are doing T4s with rangers where you need minimal tank support and have all the safeto of the world, or DD burning after the massive BRD buff which makes DDs inmune to debuffs if u stack carols and so on, its just 1 of the strategies to do T4s because for most of the other content, other jobs just work better imo.

And dont say other jobs need a mythic to work, the only ones are whm blu and rng maybe, the rest have better choices.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-04-23 06:16:28
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Perdi said: »
Make it so +Blood Pact damage is now +Avatar Damage and tune down all pacts accordingly.
that's exactely what they should NOT be doing.
Outside of Astral Conduit zergs, SMN is perfectly fine and doesn't need a nerf at all.

Which is exactely why I was advocating some moderate nerf/change to AC maybe, but nothing outside of it because the job might come ruined out of it.
 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2017-04-23 06:33:03
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The mobs associated with the Aeonic questline were released a year and a half ago... Why is anyone crying about how a job is beating old content?

We don't use SMN to kill anything (except maybe /SMN for mew spam).
I bet many of you use that also despite your new found hatred of the job. In my opinion, that should be nerfed. For something so potent, a main SMN should get a spot.
Other than that, we don't use SMN at all and we beat all of these mobs handily. Before the GEO nerf. After the GEO nerf. With mages. Without mages.

No one needs SMN to win. So let those that want to use SMN have their fun.

SE implements very little, if anything, well.
We know they don't test anything.
I'd rather their "team" stir the pot as little as possible.
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 Ragnarok.Inx
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By Ragnarok.Inx 2017-04-23 06:38:40
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The absolute most I'd say is justified is disabling Aftermath on the Avatar during Conduit. Consider that BST's Unleash SP does the same thing as AC and lasts twice as long.

@Cherrywine

Well said.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-04-23 06:41:26
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Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
Why is anyone crying about how a job is beating old content?
Absolutely.
I wouldn't have whined if SE nerfed them (they did, technically), I'm not mad if people are now able to kill stuff and feel satisfied over monsters I killed the first time almost 2 years ago.
Everbody get their turn? Nothing wrong about it and nothing we haven't seen before.

Things would be better if there were NEW CONTENT for hardcore gamers.
Whereas we get nothing aside from the endless gated grind of Omen.
This is the real problem imho, not the fact that some people are finally able to kill those T4s in a much simpler way than the one we had to use almost 2 years ago.
 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2017-04-23 06:45:44
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Wow, i thought this thread might actually be about Reisenjima T4s.

Really? calling for a nerf on smn? get real ppl. Its little kids ganging up on the smartest kid in class cuz they make'em feel bad... 'cept smn isn't really smartest in class.. it only won the spelling bee.

Just appreciate them for what they good at, and move along.
 Asura.Ladyofhonor
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2017-04-23 06:51:17
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So aeonics are old content now? Omen is pretty easy content. So we don't have any content anymore?

T4's, barring SMN's, are still the hardest content in the game right now. To dismiss them as old content and thus no point nerfing a job that ezmodes them is a bit...disingenuous.
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 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2017-04-23 07:04:24
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Yes, Aeonics are old content. 18 months old.
That's not the same as saying we have no content.

Want a challenge? Do the things that haven't been completely unraveled, like Master Trials or Tumult Curator. Both have been beaten, but they aren't on farm status for most--yet.
 Sylph.Cherche
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By Sylph.Cherche 2017-04-23 07:08:20
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Ragnarok.Phuoc said: »
And about SMN i'll stay it again, it doesnt need any change right now because its an ok job in my eyes really, they made it so you can compensate the lackluster master damage with the pet while having great aoe buffs and debuffs
I mean, even a SMNs low end output under conduit still outclasses the best melee DPS under absolutely impossible buff/gear situations.

But okay.
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 Ragnarok.Inx
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By Ragnarok.Inx 2017-04-23 07:08:34
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Yep, and let's not pretend that T4's weren't on farm status for months leading up the Geo-nerf forcing people out of the death-burst comfort zone.

All that's happened is one method of dealing high damage from the backline was replaced with another due to the relative increase in magic evasion.
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By Asura.Taberif 2017-04-23 07:20:40
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Abit curious as I cant test this, but maybe someone else can?
Does anyone have a good BST? We lost ours a long time ago so I cant test on T4s for Acc/DMG #s.

I vaguely remember him outparsing our SMNs on everything physical zerg(bpact vs ready dmg by alot). Would stand to reason in my mind that BSTs might be more viable than even SMN for physical zergs with unleashed/runwild having double the duration and no mp requirements compared to conduit/flow. Just a thought.
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By Asura.Frod 2017-04-23 07:25:14
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Ragnarok.Inx said: »
The absolute most I'd say is justified is disabling Aftermath on the Avatar during Conduit. Consider that BST's Unleash SP does the same thing as AC and lasts twice as long.

@Cherrywine

Well said.

Disabling aftermath only nerfs nirvana owners, Doesn't resolve any of the core issues.

I still argue that content that has balancing by drastic HP scaling is terrible ***and pushes situations like this. If mobs had static HP and more forms of hard stops in fights, instead of straight zergfest nonsense. This would be a nonissue.


Fix schah by making his DT happen at start until adds are killed. Give mobs more '*** you' button situations or bring back gimmicks like that behemoth that rages if you do too much at once. Tumult curator and oncycophora both have hard stop situations that alleviate a straight zerg.


The HP scaling mechanics punishes more legitimate/player heavy setups. Removing that nonsense completely from the game would go a long way to alleviate this crap too. If the NMs were balanced for 12 or 18, Conduit spam would require a larger setup and not be feasible on some NMs just because the balanced HP would slow the fight enough to outlast conduit or allow the mobs to get off more nasty moves. If groups of 5 had the same nm with the same hp as a group of 12 or 18, players would be able to build safer setups and invite friends, instead of relying on a singular insular setup that allows a single leech.
 Ragnarok.Ejiin
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2017-04-23 07:31:07
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Ragnarok.Inx said: »
Yep, and let's not pretend that T4's weren't on farm status for months leading up the Geo-nerf forcing people out of the death-burst comfort zone.

All that's happened is one method of dealing high damage from the backline was replaced with another due to the relative increase in magic evasion.

If they are so easy why did you make a Nirvana and not just kill it easily with another setup with jobs you already had geared?

If your argument is that SMN should not be nerfed in any way, that means every DD in the game should be brought to an equivalent level in some means as a Conduit SMN. Every DD party in the game having the ability to do 2M damage in 30 seconds to faceroll every NM and ignore every NM mechanic sounds like terrible game design. Not to mention, if that happened, 95% of these new SMN would instantly swap to a different job.
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 Asura.Taberif
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By Asura.Taberif 2017-04-23 07:40:02
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where the hell are you pulling 2mil dmg out of your *** from?
 Ragnarok.Ejiin
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2017-04-23 07:43:02
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Misremembered. 2M/60seconds(?). I don't know the precise number but it's semantics; you know full well what my point is.
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By Asura.Taberif 2017-04-23 07:44:56
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the point is they can do about 500-600k dmg during conduit on physical dmg tier4s. anything lasting longer than 30sec they fall drastically behind any other DD.
 Ragnarok.Ejiin
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2017-04-23 07:47:07
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Yeah, I guess I meant a party of DDs doing 2M damage/30seconds.
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By Asura.Taberif 2017-04-23 07:50:30
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take away hp scaling, problem solved.
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By Sylph.Cherche 2017-04-23 07:57:07
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Not really?

Just bring even more summoners and face roll even harder with no drawbacks.
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 Ragnarok.Inx
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By Ragnarok.Inx 2017-04-23 08:18:55
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Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
Ragnarok.Inx said: »
Yep, and let's not pretend that T4's weren't on farm status for months leading up the Geo-nerf forcing people out of the death-burst comfort zone.

All that's happened is one method of dealing high damage from the backline was replaced with another due to the relative increase in magic evasion.

If they are so easy why did you make a Nirvana and not just kill it easily with another setup with jobs you already had geared?

If your argument is that SMN should not be nerfed in any way, that means every DD in the game should be brought to an equivalent level in some means as a Conduit SMN. Every DD party in the game having the ability to do 2M damage in 30 seconds to faceroll every NM and ignore every NM mechanic sounds like terrible game design. Not to mention, if that happened, 95% of these new SMN would instantly swap to a different job.

As I've already said, personally I have no Nirvana and its not the Mythic I'm currently making. What I did have was a mastered job that was largely built around magical BP damage, so converting it to a more physical build was pretty quick and easy especially with the nice, easy-to-farm, gears in Omen.

There's no bandwagoning going on for us, all that's happened is that SMN has improved considerably over the past few months (Omen) so people were coming back to it anyway. That around the same time the changes to GEO basically made BLM bursting less effective, just created a need for an alternative DD approach.

Whats funny is that although we have another few SMN in the shell, our existing Nirvana owners tend to be busy on other jobs in T4's. Which is why, to my knowledge, we haven't done any strict conduit burns. Yes, we often use SMN at the moment as part of our DD line-up, and yes we do encourage burning AF/AC because its high damage, but despite that its hardly a crutch for us.

Honestly, I'd have been perfectly happy had the geo-nerf not happened and we were still casually burning everything down. Frankly it was less effort, with no need to reset 1hrs and less to switch jobs and reform during events. But, it happened, and we had to adapt.
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By Asura.Frod 2017-04-23 08:21:29
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Sylph.Cherche said: »
Not really?

Just bring even more summoners and face roll even harder with no drawbacks.


The problem isn't simply that i can bring more smns to faceroll it, hard counters would break that easily. The problem is that you can't bring a more balanced setup without being punished due to HP scale.
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