Third Party Follies

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Third party follies
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2016-06-18 13:47:47
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I looked a bit into an overview of this guy's policies. While I don't agree with everything(energy for instance) I really think some of you guys who keep complaining about the other two should give him some attention and maybe a vote.

Or don't whatever. But for all the complaining I see about the major candidates..
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-06-18 13:59:15
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
I looked a bit into an overview of this guy's policies. While I don't agree with everything(energy for instance) I really think some of you guys who keep complaining about the other two should give him some attention and maybe a vote.

Or don't whatever. But for all the complaining I see about the major candidates..

I'll definitely be vetting him out. I really hope his slogan is something like, "Vote for the only candidate whose face doesn't trigger a gag reflex."
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By Jassik 2016-06-18 14:00:42
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
I looked a bit into an overview of this guy's policies. While I don't agree with everything(energy for instance) I really think some of you guys who keep complaining about the other two should give him some attention and maybe a vote.

Or don't whatever. But for all the complaining I see about the major candidates..

I'll definitely be vetting him out. I really hope his slogan is something like, "Vote for the only candidate whose face doesn't trigger a gag reflex."

Vote for the guy not currently suspected of a crime!
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By Garuda.Chanti 2016-07-29 21:35:45
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Jill Stein Explains Her Plan to Stop Trump by Electing Him President
New York magazine

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The other day, WGBH interviewed Dr. Jill Stein, the Green Party candidate for president, who is recruiting disaffected supporters of Bernie Sanders. Given the current closeness of the race, and the dire consequences of a Donald Trump victory, the interviewer naturally wanted to know how she feels about potentially throwing the election to Trump. Her answer is the sort of jargon-laced evasion that, if previous Green Party nominee Ralph Nader is any example, we can expect to hear between now and the election:

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What we know from history, and what we know from the current situation, we are seeing a rise in right-wing extremism, not just in the United States, and it’s not just Donald Trump, it’s also throughout countries in Europe. What is driving this? It is policies like NAFTA, like globalization, like the dominance of the banks, like the Wall Street bailouts, like the Wall Street meltdown thanks to deregulation. Who gave us those policies? The Clintons were leading the way on those policies! The answer to neofascism is stopping neoliberalism. Putting another Clinton in the White House will fan the flames of this right-wing extremism. We have known that for a long time ever since Nazi Germany. We are going to stand up to Donald Trump and to stand up to Hillary Clinton!
The key to unraveling this stream of gibberish is to begin with the sentence “We have known that for a long time ever since Nazi Germany.” What exactly have we known? It is hard to say. Normally, “we have known that” would refer to the previous sentence, but, in this case, the previous sentence is “Putting another Clinton in the White House will fan the flames of this right-wing extremism.” Surely, to whatever extent it can be “known” that a Clinton in the White House leads to right-wing extremism, it certainly was not known during the Third Reich — which occurred several decades before the first Clinton administration, at least according to the standard neoliberal calendar.

In fact, the one time in American history a Clinton held the White House, it did not lead to fascism. True, it did lead to a Republican administration, but it wouldn’t have if it weren’t for, among many factors, a Green Party candidate who siphoned off enough votes in Florida to tilt the outcome. The “history of bad things that happen after Clinton presidencies” argument is not a strong justification for Stein’s candidacy.

Alternatively, Stein might be referring to the previous sentence — the thing we have known since Nazi Germany is not that Clinton presidencies lead to fascism, but that “The answer to neofascism is stopping neoliberalism.” This, however, is also a strange conclusion to draw. The crisis in Weimar Germany had many causes, but one of them was the Communist Party’s insistence on destroying the Social Democrats. Because the Communists would not support any center-left government coalition, it was impossible to form a parliamentary majority without the Nazis. So whatever lessons about left-wing political strategy we should draw from the Nazi era, “withhold votes from the mainstream party that is the only viable alternative to the far right” is definitely not one of them.

What’s most fascinating is that Stein does not try to downplay the danger of a Trump presidency. Instead, she likens it to fascism and Nazism (a comparison that I actually think, for all of Trump’s authoritarian tendencies, goes too far). And yet, proceeding from her premise that Clintonism will lead to fascism, she concludes that she must “stand up to” both Donald Trump and the only candidate who can prevent Donald Trump from winning the presidency, in equal measure. “Neoliberalism” — the left-wing term of abuse for liberalism — leads to fascism, so we might as well skip the neoliberalism step and go straight to the fascism.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2016-07-30 04:00:43
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Author seems to want third parties to drop out pure and simply. I don't particularly like Stein, but why should Johnson and her stop pushing their ideologies. It doesn't matter who they take more votes from.

So much wrong with this way of thinking.
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By Blazed1979 2016-07-30 05:07:27
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I understand what Jill Stein was saying. I don't know why the Author didn't - maybe they're thick?

Alienate the public long enough and they will go to extremes to get their way, democratically. There have been too many grassroots movements against mainstream politics in the past decade that were all ignored, ridiculed, obscured and shut-down without any resolution or effect on real policy. There weren't even any compromises. The only compromises that happen are behind closed doors and usually for the benefit of corporations, massive lobbies at the expense or mutual benefit of same tier rivals/competitors, not the average citizen and general public.

(Indicators:SuperPacs, outsourcing jobs to other nations, GMOs, Wars, NSA etc etc - lots of extremely unpopular and shaddy stuff that government does despite public opinion )

Furthermore a lot of the stuff that should be discussed and debated in public is never discussed. Instead the media ignore it, allowing things to go on festering, for pressure to build up and reach exploding point.

So here are some indicators that the alienation is reaching critical mass, and at the very least the democrats are too corrupt beyond salvation. The RNC had little to no control over who their general election nominee would be, while on the flipside the complete opposite was the case with DNC, where they conspired to nominate Hillary by any means necessary. (Indicators: Well, the last year of primaries and caucuses as well as the leaked emails. Anyone who has followed the news and debates knows the republicans did everything they could to get ANYONE but Trump to be the republican Nominee, and Shultz's emails are the smoking gun with regards to the DNC).

Trump's nomination is a victory for democracy. (cringe)
Hillary's nomination is a complete abomination of democracy.

I say that as a moderate that would rather have no guns, am pro-immigrants, pro-life, pro-gender equality, pro-multiculturalism, religion outside of politics, no wars, reducing the military budget, increasing education budget, public well fair, raising the minimum wage, taxing the rich, getting corporations and big money out of politics.

But I would rather have Trump in the whitehouse. You can deal, negotiate and recognize a bottom line with Trump. Like it or not, he's the gate keeper. When he openly said he would protect LBGTQ at the friggin Republican National Convention and got cheers from their voter base my jaw dropped. He has power and their trust. Which means he is going to do a lot of things to maintain that trust and power, which I am sure I will not like. But when it comes to things such as national security, international relations, he's going to bring those crazy far right extremist *** to the middle by convincing them. They're going to trust him that much. He's that popular. He's that good. (again, my facing is cringing but its true).

Complete opposite situation on the democrats side. Half of them don't want Hillary, half of them know their own party conspired against their will and choice for candidate. Even those that don't still see Hillary as crooked, will say anything to get elected and do nothing. If I could vote I would be voting for Johnson and Stein. I would want to make a statement of protest and teach the DNP a lesson they never forget. I wouldn't care if it empowered Trump as long as it hurt crooked Hillary.

Its counter intuitive, but it makes perfect sense. If you play chess to keep your queen alive you've already lost. Chess is about Check mates, and it doesn't matter if you only have one pawn left on the board at the end of it - a check mate is a check mate.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2016-07-30 05:42:07
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Blazed1979 said: »
GMOs
*sighs*
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By Blazed1979 2016-07-30 06:55:55
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
*sighs*
Your sigh is very helpful and contributes greatly.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2016-07-30 07:41:24
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There isn't much to say about the close-mindedness of the anti-gmo stance.
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By Blazed1979 2016-07-30 08:00:54
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
There isn't much to say about the close-mindedness of the anti-gmo stance.

You don't seem to know much about GMOs.
One of Bernie Sanders main wins was forcing GMO's to label their products in the state of vermont. It's one of the major issues he ran on, and it is a progressive view within and outside the united states. "Closed Mindedness" is pretty much what you're practicing right now.

The majority of leading academics in the fields of biology and agriculture are anti-GMO.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2016-07-30 08:02:06
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No they aren't.
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By Blazed1979 2016-07-30 08:14:59
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
No they aren't.

Maybe this conversation is a bit too nuanced for you.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2016-07-30 08:33:14
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89% consensus from a quick google if you want a number.

It was my major gripe with Sanders. It's very silly left-wing antiscience. Equal to the right-wing stance on climate change.
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By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2016-07-30 09:19:46
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Clarity on GMOs is good (hence the desire for labeling), but most people just lack education as to what it entails. They're not making Mewtwo corn or something, it's mostly about increasing resiliency against pests and harsh growing conditions.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2016-07-30 09:33:43
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I think the author is still about bitter over Nader's run in 2000. I thought it a worthwhile read though.

But the example of the German Communist party basically bringing the Nazis to power is a good one. Perhaps not applicable here though as we don't have a parliamentary system.

On the GMO bit, Bernie's win was for consumer choice and information. It is, I hope, the start of a whole reworking and clarification of labeling, most of which have nothing to do with GMOs.

Blazed1979 said: »
...
When he openly said he would protect LBGTQ at the friggin Republican National Convention and got cheers from their voter base my jaw dropped...
As did mine. After all what is he going to protect them from? His vice president?
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By fonewear 2016-07-30 09:38:34
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If Jill Stein becomes president I will take back everything I've ever said about women.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2016-07-30 21:30:23
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Why Fone?
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By fonewear 2016-07-30 22:22:59
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Garuda.Chanti said: »
Why Fone?

Because there is 0% chance of Jill Stein being president. I only take bets I can win.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-07-31 08:11:06
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Sylph.Jeanpaul said: »
They're not making Mewtwo corn or something
Maybe not, but he certainly is good at advertising it:

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By Garuda.Chanti 2016-08-07 19:38:20
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In campaign first, Republican Congressman backs Libertarian candidate over Donald Trump
Philly.com

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Rep. Scott Rigell, R-Virginia, will vote for Libertarian Gary Johnson for president, adding to the list of Republicans breaking with GOP nominee Donald Trump.

Rigell, who is retiring at the end of his term after six years in office, is the first member of Congress to support the third-party candidate, according to the New York Times, which first reported the endorsement Saturday.

Rigell's spokeswoman, Kaylin Minton, confirmed the Times's report but declined further comment.

The congressman said in March that he would not vote for Trump.

"I believe that Republican voters have got a reason to be upset and angry, but I'm submitting to them that the solution is not Donald Trump in any respect," he told CNN at the time.

Johnson, the former governor of New Mexico, also has the support of former representative Tom Campbell, a Republican from California, according to his website.

Rigell, a former car salesman, has bucked the GOP establishment in the past and worked with Democrats to ban straw purchases of guns, to oppose stopgap funding measures and to challenge President Barack Obama's actions in Syria.

Forty percent of primary voters in his Virginia Beach district favored Trump in the primary, and the region, home to a high percentage of servicemen and women and retired military personnel, is key to Trump's Virginia strategy.

State Del. Scott Taylor, R-Virginia Beach, a former Navy SEAL, defeated Rep. J. Randy Forbes in the June Republican primary, and he is the favorite to win the general election in the Republican-leaning district.

Rigell backed Forbes, who switched districts after a court-imposed elections map added Democrats to Forbes's district.

Taylor has capitalized on the same national hunger for an insurgent candidate that has helped propel Trump, and adopted a similar slogan: "Let's all make American great again."
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-08-07 19:54:46
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At this point I hope Trump wins, just to *** over all the Republicans going against him.

I understand the dislike, but at a time where party unity is needed, and needed bad, and these Republicans acting like children, I want to see this thrown back into their faces.
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By Mookies 2016-08-08 02:19:35
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Jill Stein = Trump (PETA level stupidity)
That Libertarian business man = Hillary (Corrupt AF)

There are no good choices this election. I'd honestly just vote for whatever candidate will cause the city to burn the quickest, so that people get fed up enough to reform the government. We're just going to get more and more of the same shitty choices down the road as things continue to get worse and worse.
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2016-08-08 02:30:09
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Mookies said: »
Jill Stein = Trump (PETA level stupidity)
That Libertarian business man = Hillary (Corrupt AF)

There are no good choices this election. I'd honestly just vote for whatever candidate will cause the city to burn the quickest, so that people get fed up enough to reform the government. We're just going to get more and more of the same shitty choices down the road as things continue to get worse and worse.

Your message has been heard look towards 2020 in 4 years I will head to Washington DC not with a political party behind my back, but with the American citizens fed up enough to reform government.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2016-08-08 09:41:19
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The never Trump and certainly not Hillary crowd are STILL at it.


Anti-Trump Republican Evan McMullin to launch independent bid for presidency


Politico. But do check out the article for links.
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Evan McMullin, the chief policy director for Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives, will offer discontented members of his party an option this November by launching an independent, conservative bid for president.

“In a year where Americans have lost faith in the candidates of both major parties, it’s time for a generation of new leadership to step up," McMullin said in a statement to ABC News. "It’s never too late to do the right thing, and America deserves much better than either Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton can offer us. I humbly offer myself as a leader who can give millions of disaffected Americans a conservative choice for President.”

Citing “multiple sources” in a series of posts to Twitter, MSNBC host Joe Scarborough was the first to announce McMullin's bid. He said McMullin will kick off his campaign Monday and has “the backing of key $$ contributors in the Republican Party.”

BuzzFeed also reported McMullin’s independent bid for the White House, similarly citing unnamed sources.

McMullin, who has never held elected office, was an operations officer for the CIA for 11 years from 1999 to 2010, according to his LinkedIn page. He earned an MBA in 2011 from the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, the alma mater of GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump. He has also worked at Goldman Sachs, as a volunteer refugee resettlement officer for the United Nations and as a deckhand on a commercial fishing boat in Alaska.

An aide for the House Republican Conference said McMullin is no longer an employee there. Conference spokesman Nate Hodson said "The House Republican Conference has zero knowledge of his intentions."

On his Twitter account, McMullin has been vocal about his opposition to Trump, characterizing him as an authoritarian and calling for the Manhattan billionaire to release his tax returns, something he has refused to do to this point.

“Authoritarians like @realDonaldTrump use promises of law & order to justify infringing on civil rights as they consolidate control by force,” McMullin tweeted on July 21, his most recent post.

“Opposing @realDonaldTrump is about putting principle over power, a virtue some in Washington are too quick to abandon. #NeverTrump,” he wrote on May 7, just days after Trump became the GOP’s presumptive nominee.

McMullin is not the first Republican to consider mounting a third-party bid against Trump, although he appears to be the first one willing to act on it. National Review writer David French publicly toyed with launching an anti-Trump White House run in the spring before ultimately deciding against it in early June.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2016-09-04 12:13:34
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Gary Johnson snags newspaper endorsement

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Washington (CNN)Libertarian presidential nominee Gary Johnson received the endorsement of a prominent Virginia paper in an editorial posted Saturday night, notching a Labor Day weekend win for his third party bid.

The glowing appraisal of Johnson's candidacy by the Richmond Times-Dispatch's editorial board contrasts the former New Mexico governor with Republican nominee Donald Trump and Democratic standard-bearer Hillary Clinton, both of whom lack the proper character traits to be president, the paper said.

"Neither Donald Trump nor Hillary Clinton meets the fundamental moral and professional standards we have every right to expect of an American president," the editorial board writes.

The editorial board's backing of Johnson is also a break in its partisan leanings, as it has endorsed Republican candidates in every presidential election for the past 36 years.
Johnson performed poorly in Virginia during his 2012 effort, securing less than one percent of the state's vote. The ex-governor has said he hopes to break out this year due to the low favorability ratings for Trump and Clinton, and the paper followed that line of thinking.

The editorial also called for Johnson to join the nationally-televised debates alongside Trump and Clinton. The former governor has said repeatedly that he needs to make the general election debates to have any realistic chance at the White House. The presidential debate commission requires a candidate to reach an average of 15 percent in the polls it has selected.

Johnson must rapidly improve his position to meet this threshold. CNN's latest poll of polls found Johnson sitting at an average of 9 percent nationwide, and a Quinnipiac poll from mid-August had Johnson at 12 percent in Virginia.
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