Site Update 2015.07.21

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Site Update 2015.07.21
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By Rooks 2015-07-21 10:28:58
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The site has been updated.

This week's patch is mostly focused around Guildwork integration for FFXIV.

  • [XI] Achievement point calculations have been altered.

  • [XI] The News Feed has been updated.

  • [XI] Tooltips for GEO and RUN equippable gear should work now. nvm, it didn't work /sulk WOO fixed!

  • [XIV] Guildwork integration has been added. Further details below.

  • The 'About' page has been updated.


The Guildwork integration is currently a straight duplicate of the FFXIV Live page on Guildwork, though much uglier :) Party Finder in particular is kind of hideous, I'll clean that up before next week's patch, but wanted to get it out there. Also, I'll be changing Hunts from a snapshot to an actual persistent set of timers.

Also, the XIV item database is still out of date; Libra Eorzea is how we scrape the data, and it hasn't been updated. I'm writing a tool to just scrape the Lodestone instead, but scraping the whole Lodestone is not a quick job. If SE updates LE anytime soon, I'll use that, but likely keep working on my Lodestone scraper because it reliably gets updated.
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By 2015-07-21 10:34:26
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-07-21 10:39:57
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Rooks said: »
Achievement point calculations have been altered.
The people ask for the details!
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By Rooks 2015-07-21 10:41:43
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Rooks said: »
Achievement point calculations have been altered.
The people ask for the details!

Well what fun is that?
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By 2015-07-21 10:44:08
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 Asura.Rinuko
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By Asura.Rinuko 2015-07-21 10:52:03
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Very nice. Good job Rooks
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By Ramyrez 2015-07-21 10:55:35
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Rooks said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Rooks said: »
Achievement point calculations have been altered.
The people ask for the details!

Well what fun is that?

Damn. I just keep climbing. Of course, that's largely do to the purging of inactive peeps, but hey. I'll take top 50 on server!
 
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By 2015-07-21 10:57:09
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 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2015-07-21 11:34:21
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I have 155% fishing completion and 200% alchemy completion.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-07-21 11:36:51
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Damn you're really hardcore!!
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By Jetackuu 2015-07-21 11:41:04
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Thanks Rooks.
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By Phoenix.Gameesh 2015-07-21 11:41:23
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Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
I have 155% fishing completion and 200% alchemy completion.

I call hax! D:
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By Lakshmi.Rooks 2015-07-21 12:28:28
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Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
I have 155% fishing completion and 200% alchemy completion.

Bah, the max points didn't recalc.

Thanks.
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By Ramyrez 2015-07-21 12:32:13
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Bismarck.Josiahkf said: »
Top 50 on server ramy? Damn impressive.

It was like 88 before inactives got purged. There was a time I was top 10 but Abyssea ushered in the era of everyone-gets-everything and I didn't have time or desire to keep up anymore.
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By Odin.Sheelay 2015-07-21 13:11:06
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I have a question. Is it because of the LS Community site not updating iLVL gear and new LSs that I can't see new gear or new LSs on fix?
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By Rooks 2015-07-21 13:48:45
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Odin.Sheelay said: »
I have a question. Is it because of the LS Community site not updating iLVL gear and new LSs that I can't see new gear or new LSs on fix?

The LSCOM doesn't have ilevel gear in there; you can get it on profiles via Guildwork. You can get the LSCOM to recognize new linkshells, by making sure it's equipped in the #1 slot on a log out.
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 Phoenix.Enochroot
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By Phoenix.Enochroot 2015-07-21 23:41:04
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Great to see forward movement on this!

Looking forward to the tracking of other metrics - quest completions, SoA missions, Monstrosity levels... heck, anything that CAN be tracked. BLU spells learned. Automaton attachments. You get the idea. Us completionists love this stuff.

Keep up the great work!
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By fillerbunny9 2015-07-22 01:20:33
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is there an issue with reporting of things? for example, I completed a Ryunohige at the beginning of the year, but have 50% Assault completion? also, it still has me listed as being on WotG 7, when I am at 31 where I got bored with missions a while back.
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By Carbuncle.Akivatoo 2015-07-22 03:31:12
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for Assault change you tittle to captain and /flush and update to put it 100%
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By ibm2431 2015-07-22 03:44:47
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Rooks, did you intend spending a few million gil and a day in town hitting /lastsynth (or just having a simple script do it for you) to level a craft to 70 to be more of an accomplishment than doing both CoP and WotG?

I guess I can spend 2.5m to level Smithing to 70. But with the addition of synth kits, expanded (cheap, always in stock) guild supplies, and the adjustment to recipe caps, your evaluation of sub-crafts is totally off the mark. I've bought earrings that are more expensive than what it takes to level a craft these days.

(For reference, as of last time I adjusted my spreadsheet for Leviathan: Alchemy 0-70 profits 350k, Cooking 0-70 costs 400k, Woodworking 800k, Smithing 2.5m, Clothcraft 3.3m, Leathercraft 3.5m, Bonecraft 5m, and Goldsmithing 7m. All values based on mostly just buying from NPCs, and simply NPCing synth results you won't use for a later synth.)

I mean, if you just wanted to adjust for how easy it is to get exp, you could've just halved the point value for job levels. :x
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By Cerberus.Tidis 2015-07-22 04:16:48
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I still feel job levels weigh to highly into AP calculation, for the many people with all jobs 99 they gain 162k AP, worth more than 5 mythics. Then if you go and fully merit your jobs both universal and job specific merits, that's another 110k.

So that's 272k, or 9 Mythics now, probably most bizarre for me is that each merit is worth 37 AP whereas each JP is worth 20 AP, despite the fact that you gain CP a lot slower than exp, need to get 3x as much CP to gain 1 JP and need a lot more JPs to fully cap out a job.

So I think Job Points should be worth more as well.
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By Asura.Sechs 2015-07-22 04:45:34
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Need 3x more CP for one JP than you do need Limit Points for 1 Merit Points.
In addition to that, the rate at which you obtain CP is MUCH slower than the rate at which you obtain LP.

That might change in the future (november patch?) but for now farming JPs is kinda hardcore and personally I'd be fine with JPs having a high value.


I also agree XP and MP should see their value somewhat cut. Not sure by how much, but imho they shouldn't be worth more than half what they're worth now.



Hope I didn't sound too whiney or demanding, just wanted to drop my personal view on this. In the end the current situation is already much better than it has been for the past 3+ years so there's honestly very little space for complaints.
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By Odin.Jsmooth 2015-07-22 04:47:10
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Pretty sure Scragg mentioned not touching achievement point system due to not being able to please everyone lol. Seems people usually have an issue with areas they are lacking! I'm glad Rooks did an overhaul! My ranking took a pretty hit overall, but it does mix things up a bit, and more areas to achieve higher points.


Keep doing what your doing Rooks! and delete server jumpers who are listed multiple times on overall rankings :)
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By Rooks 2015-07-22 06:11:01
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Odin.Jsmooth said: »
Pretty sure Scragg mentioned not touching achievement point system due to not being able to please everyone

It was Jaerik, actually ;) And his point wasn't that it wouldn't change, just that it wasn't going to change in response to public demand. I stick by that, though I'm certainly willing to listen to arguments one way or another (and people make some very good points).

Achievement points are still a work in progress. I still have some sizable work to do to make SoA and RoV calculate, and the Ergon weapons. This particular update was made to rebalance things in favor of crafters and legendary weapon holders a bit, since the addition of JP to the calculation screwed them a little. I still think mythics are undervalued, but I don't want to make points jump too much in any one particular update.

The end goal to greatly reduce the effect experience points (and merits) have on the overall score, but since that calculation is fairly complicated and duplicated in multiple places, what I have to do is actually adjust everything else around it. So I make a tweak, see what happens, and then tweak it again with the next week's patch after seeing the effects. My process right now is to spend time on it for every week's patch, so it continues to evolve and move towards a more fair system, but not spend more than 20% of my development time in a particular cycle on it, as there are so many other things that need addressed.

Odin.Jsmooth said: »
and delete server jumpers who are listed multiple times on overall rankings

I have like, four separate places I check for this. The problem is that it's all based on the LSCOM, since it's the only thing that can tell me for sure someone's gone, and it's never really been what you'd call "reliable". But really, I am working on that! They're just surprisingly hard to kill, is all ;)
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By ibm2431 2015-07-22 06:41:54
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I think it might be useful to come up with a basic time/gil conversion, and then measure achievements by how much "time" it's worth. Basically, on average, how much gil can you make in an hour?

With an idea of how much an hour of time is worth, you can compare gil sinks vs time sinks vs gil and time sinks. Relics have a set gil cost, so set achievement points to however much you want a Relic to be worth. Mythics have a fixed gil cost (alex), so use that as your starting point, but then add the "time is money" value for the average amount of time it'd take to complete Assaults, Ein, and Nyzul. How much exp can you average an hour? You now know how much an hour's worth of exp is worth. How long does it take to complete an expansion? Etc.

Some of the time sinks might be hard to measure, but planning out how much an hour of time is worth would give a basis for how much an achievement should be worth compared to others. At the moment, assigned point values are seemingly arbitrary, so there's bound to be disagreements over what should be worth what (all based on the speaker's personal experiences, naturally).

But with some sort of hard number "effort" evaluation, you'd be able to say, "No. I've actually done the math. This is literally how much time this particular achievement is worth." ;)
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By Asura.Tamoa 2015-07-22 07:09:31
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Rooks said: »
Odin.Jsmooth said: »
and delete server jumpers who are listed multiple times on overall rankings

I have like, four separate places I check for this. The problem is that it's all based on the LSCOM, since it's the only thing that can tell me for sure someone's gone, and it's never really been what you'd call "reliable". But really, I am working on that! They're just surprisingly hard to kill, is all ;)

I left Odin in June, and it didn't take GW long to pick up on me leaving my main linkshell. However, on my Odin profile my secondary linkshell still shows. I never registered being in that linkshell on the LCS, is that why it still shows? It's not yet been a full month since I left so I still show up as active on Odin, will it make a difference when I show as inactive?
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-07-22 07:09:38
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The problem is people also greatly disagree on the time needed. Too many consider only the *absolute minimum* time required, which is in many cases also highly unrealistic, and could overall just be performed by someone who never leaves his desk.

So even when making a time calculation you'd have first to find out "how many hours per day is a reasonable average playtime?"
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By Phoenix.Enochroot 2015-07-22 07:13:50
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It's an interesting problem that touches on the foundation of the game's culture. Difficulty is one aspect of an achievement - actually bothering to take the time to do something is another.

Monstrosity is easy as ***, but just yesterday I hit my 3500th level. A week prior to that I finished unlocking all the available major species. Those things felt like accomplishments because I stuck to it and actually did it. Anyone can do it because the difficulty is very low, but I actually took the time and did it (because I'm insane).

Regardless of whether we get magical internet points for the things we do in-game, I'm appreciative that it simply gets tracked somewhere publicly.
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By ibm2431 2015-07-22 07:48:01
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
The problem is people also greatly disagree on the time needed. Too many consider only the *absolute minimum* time required, which is in many cases also highly unrealistic, and could overall just be performed by someone who never leaves his desk.

So even when making a time calculation you'd have first to find out "how many hours per day is a reasonable average playtime?"

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of coming up with absolute playtime values. Like, not so much as, "You can make a mythic in a month", but more like "Okay, assuming the average assault takes 15 minutes, that's 750 minutes (15 x 50) of playtime. Taking 10 minutes per Brunhilde would result in 520 minutes (100k / 1920 per run = 52 runs)."

Add in how much physical playtime you'd spend inside Nyzul for tokens (I don't remember average tokens/run off the top of my head), and you'd know how much time it takes to make a Mythic.

How long it takes an individual to actually complete those tasks (in other words, how much they play per week) wouldn't matter at that point, because the achievement system is only concerned with how much time is physically required to run/play the content.

You then compare that against how much gil you'd make in Dynamis or Salvage (say, average 100 alex per 1hr Salvage run, selling for 6.5k each = 650k, or 10833 gil/minute). Add the cost of 30k Alex (195,000,000) to gil/time for Assaults (750min x 10833 = 8,124,750), Einherjar (5,633,160) and Nyzul (?) for a total value of 208,757,910 (+ Nyzul). Compare/contrast that value with how much it'd cost to buy/farm a Relic (which for level 75, requires virtually no other time sink, just gil) to see which is worth more, and by how much.
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By Phoenix.Gameesh 2015-07-22 07:50:47
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Phoenix.Enochroot said: »
It's an interesting problem that touches on the foundation of the game's culture. Difficulty is one aspect of an achievement - actually bothering to take the time to do something is another.

Monstrosity is easy as ***, but just yesterday I hit my 3500th level. A week prior to that I finished unlocking all the available major species. Those things felt like accomplishments because I stuck to it and actually did it. Anyone can do it because the difficulty is very low, but I actually took the time and did it (because I'm insane).

Regardless of whether we get magical internet points for the things we do in-game, I'm appreciative that it simply gets tracked somewhere publicly.

I agree with you on the Monstrosity part (minus the insane bit). It's just very fun to do and while it may not add anything to your ranking it would be nice if there was a list where you could see your levels outside the Feretory.
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