Police DO NOT Need A Warrant To Search Your Home

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Police DO NOT Need A Warrant To Search Your Home
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 Odin.Godofgods
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By Odin.Godofgods 2015-07-02 12:28:02
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Supreme Court Rules Police DO NOT Need A Warrant To Search Your Home



Much to the surprise of the general public, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled in favor of expanded the ability of law enforcement to search without warrants.

Justice Samuel Alito wrote for the majority of the court which ruled 6 to 3 that “when occupants of a residents disagree on whether they will admit police without a warrant, the objecting occupant must be physically present,” the Washington Post reported. “That doesn’t change if police have removed the objector,” the court added.

“An occupant who is absent due to a lawful detention or arrest stands in the same shoes as an occupant who is absent for any other reason,” Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. wrote.

“Alito said there was no need for officers to obtain a warrant,” the Post explained. “When they arrived the first time, having followed Fernandez from the scene of a robbery, Rojas answered the door crying, with a bump on her nose and blood on her hands and shirt.”

Alito noted that “denying someone in Rojas’ position the right to allow the police to enter her home would also show disrespect for her independence. Having beaten Rojas, petitioner would bar her from controlling access to her own home until such time as he chose to relent.”

The case in question stemmed from a 2009 arrest and search related to a robbery in Los Angeles.

What happened when police arrived was a girlfriend of an occupant allowed them to access the apartment, even though her boyfriend had refused to consent to the search.

But later, the girlfriend said she felt intimidated and only consented to the search because of police intimidation. This all happened after law enforcement had been told that they would not be given permission to search. The police persisted, and she caved to their request.

Initially, it was Roxanne Rojas who opened the door, but Walter Fernandez then quickly told officers they had to leave if they did not have a warrant, according to The Los Angeles Times.

“You don’t have any right to come in here. I know my rights,” Fernandez yelled at them from inside the apartment.

According to court records, Fernandez was shortly thereafter arrested in connection with the robbery the police were investigating. It was after they had taken him away that they returned, an hour later, and searched his apartment, this time with Rojas’ consent because Fernandez was not there.

Even though they lacked the probable cause to obtain a warrant or enter without one legally, they had arrested him, and then returned to obtain the bullied consent from Rojas, after Fernandez refused.

Once inside, they found a shotgun and what they deemed “gang-related materials.”

But in a case eight years before that, the Supreme Court ruled that the refusal should have once and for all prohibited the police from entering, or even returning and pressing the issue.

“A physically present inhabitant’s express refusal of consent to a police search” of his home “s dispositive as to him, regardless of the consent of a fellow occupant,” the court had then determined.

Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Justices Sonia Sotomayor, along with Elena Kagan penned the dissenting opinion in this ruling. They said that the decision is nothing short of an erosion of the Fourth Amendment, giving police a disturbing degree of power.

“Instead of adhering to the warrant requirement,” Ginsburg said, “today’s decision tells the police they may dodge it, never mind ample time to secure the approval of a neutral magistrate.”

She added that the ruling, “shrinks to petite size our holding in Georgia v. Randolph.”

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 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-07-02 12:44:07
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This case was ruled on last year.

Fernandez v. California
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By Ramyrez 2015-07-02 12:52:21
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Odin.Godofgods said: »
Justice Samuel Alito wrote for the majority of the court which ruled 6 to 3 that “when occupants of a residents disagree on whether they will admit police without a warrant, the objecting occupant must be physically present,” the Washington Post reported.

Reading this going okay, okay, okay...

Quote:
“That doesn’t change if police have removed the objector,” the court added.

*screeching brakes*

"What, what, what!?" -Sheila Broflovski

Quote:
“An occupant who is absent due to a lawful detention or arrest stands in the same shoes as an occupant who is absent for any other reason,” Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. wrote.

This walks it back a bit though. It's not like they thumped him with a billy club, duct taped his mouth shut for dissenting, and searched without due process.

But still. One would think if they've been lawfully detained and need to search the home, a warrant would be easy to come by.

I can see the purpose of this ruling in theory. But it seems ripe to be abused to hell and back.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-07-02 12:55:24
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If I'm reading this correctly, officers still need a warrant if nobody gives them consent. This is just used for cases where one party in the household consents and the other doesn't, and how to deal with it if the one that doesn't consent is away from the household for any reason.
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By Jetackuu 2015-07-02 13:25:09
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Asura.Ivlilla said: »
the fact that I am no longer physically present to refuse them permission to search the premises does not mean that my refusal has been withdrawn.
That's quite literally the opposite of what they just said.
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 Asura.Ivlilla
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By Asura.Ivlilla 2015-07-02 13:25:30
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Okay, I'm obviously too sleep deprived to talk about anything related to the law. My brain did that in complete reverse.
 Asura.Ivlilla
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By Asura.Ivlilla 2015-07-02 13:26:03
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Jetackuu said: »
Asura.Ivlilla said: »
the fact that I am no longer physically present to refuse them permission to search the premises does not mean that my refusal has been withdrawn.
That's quite literally the opposite of what they just said.

Yeah, I just realized that. I don't know why my brain went for the exact opposite. I'm chalking it up to sleep deprivation.
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By Asura.Ivlilla 2015-07-02 13:27:08
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Jetackuu said: »
Asura.Ivlilla said: »
the fact that I am no longer physically present to refuse them permission to search the premises does not mean that my refusal has been withdrawn.
That's quite literally the opposite of what they just said.

Although I did also gloss over there was conflicting consent and wrote from the position that there was no disagreement on the refusal to allow a search.

[edit]I'm going back to sleep before there's another emergency only I can bungle.
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By protectorchrono 2015-07-02 15:34:31
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But it seems ripe to be abused to hell and back.


Police: Hands up! Don't move!!
Homeowner: Wtf!? What did I do officer??
Police: We heard you are hording illegal narcotics in your home!
Homeowner: But...I don't use drugs! Also don't you need a Search Warrant to search my house?!
Police: Don't need those anymore. Now sit down and stfu!
*Officer searches the house*
Police: Finally found the kitchen...Holy f**k! All this food talk about a pack rat!
*10 mins later*
Police: Okay, we didn't find any. Sorry for the trouble. *berps*
Police: That will be all. *berps again* Stay out of trouble sir!
Homeowner: Wtf was that about anyway? *secs later* OMFG! WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL MY FOOD!?! They f**in robbed me!
*Police in cop car*
Police: Haha! Sucker!
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By Jetackuu 2015-07-02 15:44:38
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If it's only applied to multiple person cases, and where one still allows an entry then fine, but we all know it very well will probably be abused beyond that.
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By Asura.Hoshiku 2015-07-02 16:10:49
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So basically, if you live alone and you get arrested then they no longer need a warrant to search your house? And to further that, if they wish to search your home they could come to your door, arrest you, and then search your home?
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2015-07-02 16:14:02
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Quote:
But still. One would think if they've been lawfully detained and need to search the home, a warrant would be easy to come by.

Yeah, that's Ginsburg's point. If you have enough time to arrest a guy and bring him in, you have enough time to get a warrant. It's not like it's hard.
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-07-02 16:16:28
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Thing is, if they remove you from the premises via an unlawful detainment then intimidate or otherwise coerce a roommate or spouse into letting them search the home, even if you voiced your objection before they unlawfully detained you, they still have the right to search your home. And, what's more, they can use anything they find as evidence.

This opens the door for a lot of dirty tactics.


As far as the case in question, I was under the impression that they already didn't need a warrant under "hot pursuit" standards. If they are following a suspect and that suspect enters a home, they don't need a warrant to follow them in. Although, that might be a state by state thing.
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By Nyruul 2015-07-02 18:00:28
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protectorchrono said: »
Police: Hands up! Don't move!!
Homeowner: Wtf!? What did I do officer??
Police: We heard you are hording illegal narcotics in your home!
Homeowner: But...I don't use drugs! Also don't you need a Search Warrant to search my house?!
Police: Don't need those anymore. Now sit down and stfu!
*Officer searches the house*
Police: Finally found the kitchen...Holy f**k! All this food talk about a pack rat!
*10 mins later*
Police: Okay, we didn't find any. Sorry for the trouble. *berps*
Police: That will be all. *berps again* Stay out of trouble sir!
Homeowner: Wtf was that about anyway? *secs later* OMFG! WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL MY FOOD!?! They f**in robbed me!
*Police in cop car*
Police: Haha! Sucker!

Sounds like an elderly man recalling Nazi occupation. But replace narcotics with another noun.
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By Jetackuu 2015-07-02 18:31:29
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Asura.Hoshiku said: »
So basically, if you live alone and you get arrested then they no longer need a warrant to search your house? And to further that, if they wish to search your home they could come to your door, arrest you, and then search your home?
More reason to not open the door.
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By Voren 2015-07-02 18:56:34
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This doesn't sit well with me. Thank you SCotUS for basically allowing my fellow LE workers that have landed us in headlines to be able to be even bigger douchebags.
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By Jetackuu 2015-07-02 19:11:08
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Ramyrez said: »
“That doesn’t change if police have removed the objector,” the court added.
This is the problem, if used outside of the context of multiple parties.
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By Primal623 2015-07-02 19:54:44
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Thing is, if they remove you from the premises via an unlawful detainment then intimidate or otherwise coerce a roommate or spouse into letting them search the home, even if you voiced your objection before they unlawfully detained you, they still have the right to search your home. And, what's more, they can use anything they find as evidence.

IMO, any good lawyer should be able to argue once you were unlawfully detained, everything else is fruit of the poisonous tree. If the arrest holds up, well looks like you're ***out of luck.
 Asura.Pintseyes
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By Asura.Pintseyes 2015-07-02 20:00:02
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Few things. For one there is "Illegal search and seizure" laws which means, if there is no PROBABLE CAUSE "allows a search without a warrant" or a judge didn't sign off on said warrant it becomes Illegal Seizure. So this is true if you give probable cause to a search.

Remember, first impressions and keeping up the appearance is your best friend.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-07-02 20:31:11
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Primal623 said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Thing is, if they remove you from the premises via an unlawful detainment then intimidate or otherwise coerce a roommate or spouse into letting them search the home, even if you voiced your objection before they unlawfully detained you, they still have the right to search your home. And, what's more, they can use anything they find as evidence.

IMO, any good lawyer should be able to argue once you were unlawfully detained, everything else is fruit of the poisonous tree. If the arrest holds up, well looks like you're ***out of luck.

Where in this decision does it say anything about the results of the search being inadmissible if they don't press charges for whatever they used to detain you? Most people can't afford a good criminal defense lawyer and, in much of the country, public defenders offices are woefully underfunded and staffed with bad lawyers. The last time I was on a jury, the public defender was assigned the day of the trial.
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 Fenrir.Reece
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By Fenrir.Reece 2015-07-02 21:15:20
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Just because an arrest, or search was unlawful and in the process of that they found evidence to said crime. Does not mean it still didn't happen. They're not going to wave off 10 kilos of Heroin under your kitchen sink because you was unlawfully detained...
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By Voren 2015-07-02 23:42:17
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Fenrir.Reece said: »
Just because an arrest, or search was unlawful and in the process of that they found evidence to said crime. Does not mean it still didn't happen. They're not going to wave off 10 kilos of Heroin under your kitchen sink because you was unlawfully detained...

Yeah actually they will. Key word would be unlawful.

Just like a confession gained through beating someone isn't admissible. Different level of unlawful, but still unlawful.
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-07-03 00:34:04
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Voren said: »
Fenrir.Reece said: »
Just because an arrest, or search was unlawful and in the process of that they found evidence to said crime. Does not mean it still didn't happen. They're not going to wave off 10 kilos of Heroin under your kitchen sink because you was unlawfully detained...

Yeah actually they will. Key word would be unlawful.

Just like a confession gained through beating someone isn't admissible. Different level of unlawful, but still unlawful.


What's to stop them from detaining someone under suspicion of a crime or claiming they match the description of someone who is wanted and dragging them in only to release them without charges after they've searched their house in their absence? Or deciding not to press charges for whatever bunk they made up and charging them with whatever they found in the house?

They could stop you for "swerving" (being on the road around last call) then arrest them for something they notice in the car while conducting a sobriety test. I realize that cars and homes are different legally, I'm just curious if you see anything in this decision that would keep some from interpreting the law that way?
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 Cerberus.Laconic
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By Cerberus.Laconic 2015-07-03 01:19:29
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Voren said: »
Fenrir.Reece said: »
Just because an arrest, or search was unlawful and in the process of that they found evidence to said crime. Does not mean it still didn't happen. They're not going to wave off 10 kilos of Heroin under your kitchen sink because you was unlawfully detained...

Yeah actually they will. Key word would be unlawful.

Just like a confession gained through beating someone isn't admissible. Different level of unlawful, but still unlawful.


What's to stop them from detaining someone under suspicion of a crime or claiming they match the description of someone who is wanted and dragging them in only to release them without charges after they've searched their house in their absence? Or deciding not to press charges for whatever bunk they made up and charging them with whatever they found in the house?

They could stop you for "swerving" (being on the road around last call) then arrest them for something they notice in the car while conducting a sobriety test. I realize that cars and homes are different legally, I'm just curious if you see anything in this decision that would keep some from interpreting the law that way?

The way I read it, they cannot enter the home without a search warrant. (unless "someone" allows it).
Say you live alone and get arrested for swerving like jassik said. They cannot go to your empty home break in and illegally search the place.
However. If your GF is home and says, sure come on in. All bets are off.

Solution. Always, make sure everyone into your household knows to NEVER let a police officer in your home without a warrant! So in conclusion, nothing has changed at all...
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-07-03 02:56:03
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Asura.Pintseyes said: »
Few things. For one there is "Illegal search and seizure" laws which means, if there is no PROBABLE CAUSE "allows a search without a warrant" or a judge didn't sign off on said warrant it becomes Illegal Seizure. So this is true if you give probable cause to a search.

Remember, first impressions and keeping up the appearance is your best friend.

While yes, you usually need probable cause, that doesn't prevent "incidents" of the officers acting in "good faith".

While "good faith" warrants have been around since th 1980's (a warrant issued incorrectly but is still upheld because the officers reasonably believed it was correct) there is the new problem of "good faith" understanding of the law.

If an officer believes that he is enforcing a law -even if that law does not exist- anything found during or after the arrest is allowed.

Heien v. North Carolina

a few important quotes said:
As the text indicates and we have repeatedly affirmed, “the ultimate touchstone of the Fourth Amendment is ‘reasonableness.’” Riley v. California, 573 U. S. ___, ___ (2014)…To be reasonable is not to be perfect, and so the Fourth Amendment allows for some mistakes on the part of government officials, giving them “fair leeway for enforcing the law in the community’s protection.”

...

Reasonable suspicion arises from the combination of an officer’s understanding of the facts and his understanding of the relevant law. The officer may be reasonably mistaken on either ground. Whether the facts turn out to be not what was thought, or the law turns out to be not what was thought, the result is the same: the facts are outside the scope of the law. There is no reason, under the text of the Fourth Amendment or our precedents, why this same result should be acceptable when reached by way of a reasonable mistake of fact, but not when reached by way of a similarly reasonable mistake of law.

...

Contrary to the suggestion of Heien and amici, our decision does not discourage officers from learning the law. The Fourth Amendment tolerates only reasonable mistakes, and those mistakes—whether of fact or of law— must be objectively reasonable. . . . Thus, an officer can gain no Fourth Amendment advantage through a sloppy study of the laws he is duty bound to enforce.

....

Finally, while the maxim “Ignorance of the law is no excuse” correctly implies that the State cannot impose punishment based on a mistake of law, it does not mean a reasonable mistake of law cannot justify an investigatory stop.
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By Asura.Saevel 2015-07-03 02:56:16
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They could do this anyway, most of the time. If they ask if they can come inside, for any reason, and someone says "sure officer", then any proceeding search's are legal. If you were locked up and they went to your home and anyone who was legally occupying the residence allowed them in, then it was legal. This only applies when two occupants disagree and one is legally removed.

The solution, like always, is to never speak to the police and make sure anyone living with you knows this. The magic words are "I'm sorry officer my legal counsel has advised me against speaking with you or allowing any searches without their presence". No matter what gets said after that, assert that police answer.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2015-07-03 02:57:16
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Voren said: »
Fenrir.Reece said: »
Just because an arrest, or search was unlawful and in the process of that they found evidence to said crime. Does not mean it still didn't happen. They're not going to wave off 10 kilos of Heroin under your kitchen sink because you was unlawfully detained...

Yeah actually they will. Key word would be unlawful.

Just like a confession gained through beating someone isn't admissible. Different level of unlawful, but still unlawful.


What's to stop them from detaining someone under suspicion of a crime or claiming they match the description of someone who is wanted and dragging them in only to release them without charges after they've searched their house in their absence? Or deciding not to press charges for whatever bunk they made up and charging them with whatever they found in the house?

They could stop you for "swerving" (being on the road around last call) then arrest them for something they notice in the car while conducting a sobriety test. I realize that cars and homes are different legally, I'm just curious if you see anything in this decision that would keep some from interpreting the law that way?

Doesn't work that way, they still need a lawful resident to agree to the search. They can't randomly search unoccupied houses during the middle of the day when people are at work, without first getting a warrant.
 Odin.Renzy
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By Odin.Renzy 2015-07-03 06:45:11
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Reads to me like if you have reasonable cause that a suspect is inside a private property but the home owner is present and refusing you access, you now have the lawful power to enter that property.
Same also stands if the home owner is not present due to having been arrested.

A lawful power which we've had in the UK since 1984, although it doesn't just apply to any old offence. It must be an indictable offence (think you guys call them felony). Surely US police won't be kicking doors down for a stolen loaf of bread?
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By Jetackuu 2015-07-03 06:54:36
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Odin.Renzy said: »
Reads to me like if you have reasonable cause that a suspect is inside a private property but the home owner is present and refusing you access, you now have the lawful power to enter that property.
No, that's not how that reads.
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