The Last Dance II: The Show Must Go On

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The Last Dance II: The Show Must Go On
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By BlaTheTaru 2017-09-30 21:13:23
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What is the best path for lustratio +1 head/legs/feet?
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By Bismarck.Issymo 2017-10-01 04:26:32
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I just use the +1 legs and have B path.
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2017-10-01 05:41:09
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BlaTheTaru said: »
What is the best path for lustratio +1 head/legs/feet?

Head: Path A
Legs: Path B
Feet: Path D
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By BlaTheTaru 2017-10-01 12:01:04
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Thanks Kat!
 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2017-10-01 13:03:00
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You're welcome :)
 Leviathan.Brotherhood
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-10-01 13:34:14
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Would those same paths on the NQ versions be acceptable?
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-10-09 09:24:58
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Has anybody discussed in detail Meghanada+2 vs AF+3 hands for Rudra's Storm?

AF+3 has 3% more WSD which is pretty huge for Rudra.
But it has less attack and -5 DEX.

I think it's pretty obvious that AF+3 are the clear winner here, I was more questioning if it's worth ~7,1m gil over Meghanada+2 (which are free) for someone who rarely plays DNC as a secondary job.
Opinions?
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By Asura.Avallon 2017-10-09 09:42:22
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Has anybody discussed in detail Meghanada+2 vs AF+3 hands for Rudra's Storm?

AF+3 has 3% more WSD which is pretty huge for Rudra.
But it has less attack and -5 DEX.

I think it's pretty obvious that AF+3 are the clear winner here, I was more questioning if it's worth ~7,1m gil over Meghanada+2 (which are free) for someone who rarely plays DNC as a secondary job.
Opinions?

I personally use the AF+3 hands. I've been pretty pleased with the results to be honest, but ultimately each player may have to do their own testing based on their overall build for that WS.
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By Siren.Kyte 2017-10-09 09:59:25
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They are pretty close- if you don't play it too often, I wouldn't feel bad about using Megh+2
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By Shiva.Flowen 2017-10-12 04:54:21
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Hi Dancer community!

Been thinking about making another wep for dancer recently and would like some advice/opinions.

Currently I use aeonic and perfect sari.

Is the extra effort and exclusiveness (I play thf sometimes, but not as much as dnc) of Terps worth it over twashtar considering what I already have available?
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2017-10-12 05:25:33
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They are both great weapons, its also great that you're investing more into DNC and good luck with everything.

Each got its pros and cons yet the cons are easily overshadowed by its outcomes (solo or in groups).

Some might argue the obtainability/cost of Twashtar and if its worth the hassle but its defiantly a wonderful weapon for DNC (Main/offhand) and you can also use it on THF.

Terp however provides great versatility in play style and makes steps/TP generation so much easier not to mention its boost to Kleos~

Performance wise they are both outstanding and should be strived for yet personally I find Twashtar better for my play style than Terp and I ended up making this one first and working on Terp as we speak.
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2017-10-12 05:50:03
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Updated Violent Flourish and Evisceration Sets on BG Guide.
Any Feedback/suggestions are highly appreciated.

DNC Guide...
 Shiva.Flowen
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By Shiva.Flowen 2017-10-13 03:00:07
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Leviathan.Katriina said: »
They are both great weapons, its also great that you're investing more into DNC and good luck with everything.

Each got its pros and cons yet the cons are easily overshadowed by its outcomes (solo or in groups).

Some might argue the obtainability/cost of Twashtar and if its worth the hassle but its defiantly a wonderful weapon for DNC (Main/offhand) and you can also use it on THF.

Terp however provides great versatility in play style and makes steps/TP generation so much easier not to mention its boost to Kleos~

Performance wise they are both outstanding and should be strived for yet personally I find Twashtar better for my play style than Terp and I ended up making this one first and working on Terp as we speak.

Thanks for the response. When you say play style on twashstar, do you mean more tp holding? I read Byrth's calculations a few pages back and it seems for dmg terps's lead quickly diminishes when you wait to use PK. Using Aoenic at the moment I find the play style leans towards tp holding also. With its main boost being big rudras whether you use at 1500 or 2300 doesn't really change dps. I guess I want a wep that will be a noticeably difference compared to my current aoenic/perfect sari combo
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-10-13 03:07:51
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I think for pure damage Aeonic is more flexible, or rather it performs sorta always the same regardless of the situation, of the TP, of the lenght of the fight, it's quite solid and reliable.

Terps relies on different factors, you have the use of PK, mantaining AM3 (which is immensely easier on DNC than it is on other jobs), it favors /SAM in most situations.
These days AM3 is greatly devaluated by the huge amount of multiattack gear we get.

I dunno, if all you want is damage I think you'll be happier with Aeonic/Sari or Aeonic/Twash combinations.
The beauty of Terpsichore imo isn't just in the pure damage output but in the versatility it gives you to play your job with all those additional steps you get.
It suits you very well if you wanna play in roles that differ from pure DPS. Say you're in some strange setup and wanna give some additional focus on your support (healing/debuff) abilities.
In such situations I see Terps as the perfect weapon by far.
It really suits this playstyle and it adds an additional layer of depth to the job.

But really, if all you care for is pure DPS output, you'll probably be more satisfied with Aeneas MH.
Just my personal view on things of course!
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2017-10-13 03:47:00
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Totally agree here with Sechs on Aeonic being an excellent choice in almost all situations.but I think as an Offhand Twashtar would be perfect for it more than Terp.[although I can see the gap between Terp offhand and Twashtar diminishing in future updates/gear when 50DEX becomes less importnant in the grander scheme of things and by that time the hassle of getting Twashtar will play as a factor compared to Terp]

When I mentioned my play style its because I do tend to hold a bit more on TP for 1.critical situations and 2.my sets focus more on Multi-Hit / Rudra Spam than anything else with the major factor being 3.skill chain order with team mates.
Personally I believe thats where the true strength of Dancer comes from.

I like to add more benefit to my group since we are only 6-7 on End Game content, and we are really strict on ws order to maximize damage.
With Twashtar my white damage while holding on TP [Usually 1500-1750] factors to the outcomes eventually and even pushes ahead when skill chains are present.

"Here you can see why Aeonic can really shine if you end up closing Umbra on AM3 but hey, Dancers usually cap 99k sc on double Dark anyway and thats why Aeonic argument for DNC became questionable in the beginning when it first came out."
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By Shiva.Flowen 2017-10-16 06:39:21
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Asura.Sechs said: »
I think for pure damage Aeonic is more flexible, or rather it performs sorta always the same regardless of the situation, of the TP, of the lenght of the fight, it's quite solid and reliable.

Terps relies on different factors, you have the use of PK, mantaining AM3 (which is immensely easier on DNC than it is on other jobs), it favors /SAM in most situations.
These days AM3 is greatly devaluated by the huge amount of multiattack gear we get.

I dunno, if all you want is damage I think you'll be happier with Aeonic/Terps or Aeonic/Twash combinations.
The beauty of Terpsichore imo isn't just in the pure damage output but in the versatility it gives you to play your job with all those additional steps you get.
It suits you very well if you wanna play in roles that differ from pure DPS. Say you're in some strange setup and wanna give some additional focus on your support (healing/debuff) abilities.
In such situations I see Terps as the perfect weapon by far.
It really suits this playstyle and it adds an additional layer of depth to the job.

But really, if all you care for is pure DPS output, you'll probably be more satisfied with Aeneas MH.
Just my personal view on things of course!

Thanks Sechs. I always prefer weapons that add a new element to your play style or utility (whilst maintaining respectable dmg) > pure dps. I am the kind of player that will try main healing on dnc for fun. Based on this, I think you're saying terps is what I would get more out of.

I guess Twashstar kind of has the same play style as Aeneas in that you can get away with holding tp, with twash being more favourable as you can wait to 2750 without really hurting dmg.
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By Phoenix.Rikimarueye 2017-10-26 01:29:05
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Anyone have access to the DNC spreadsheet? I tried clicking the link and it told me I need special permissions to access the google drive :( Any help would be appreciated!
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By Asura.Ivlilla 2017-10-30 14:25:15
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Shiva.Flowen said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
I think for pure damage Aeonic is more flexible, or rather it performs sorta always the same regardless of the situation, of the TP, of the lenght of the fight, it's quite solid and reliable.

Terps relies on different factors, you have the use of PK, mantaining AM3 (which is immensely easier on DNC than it is on other jobs), it favors /SAM in most situations.
These days AM3 is greatly devaluated by the huge amount of multiattack gear we get.

I dunno, if all you want is damage I think you'll be happier with Aeonic/Terps or Aeonic/Twash combinations.
The beauty of Terpsichore imo isn't just in the pure damage output but in the versatility it gives you to play your job with all those additional steps you get.
It suits you very well if you wanna play in roles that differ from pure DPS. Say you're in some strange setup and wanna give some additional focus on your support (healing/debuff) abilities.
In such situations I see Terps as the perfect weapon by far.
It really suits this playstyle and it adds an additional layer of depth to the job.

But really, if all you care for is pure DPS output, you'll probably be more satisfied with Aeneas MH.
Just my personal view on things of course!

Thanks Sechs. I always prefer weapons that add a new element to your play style or utility (whilst maintaining respectable dmg) > pure dps. I am the kind of player that will try main healing on dnc for fun. Based on this, I think you're saying terps is what I would get more out of.

I guess Twashstar kind of has the same play style as Aeneas in that you can get away with holding tp, with twash being more favourable as you can wait to 2750 without really hurting dmg.

Terpsichore is amazing in terms of how much it can change how you can play Dancer. For example, if you were to drop every single piece of multiattack gear to cap -DT which you would never need to actually do, you'd still be getting the 40% Occasionally Attacks Twice/20% Occasionally Attacks Thrice. Which means if you're trying to survive something- like the tank and the other one or two DDs are dead, and you need to sit in a -DT set and help your WHM out by keeping yourself topped off until the tank can get up and/or unweaken, that can be an absolute life-saver, and the difference between a wipe or a successful run.

In a situation like that, you could swap to a Blurred Knife +1 off-hand (or an augmented Atoyac if it's lower accuracy and/or you're buffed well), activate Trance, Reverse Flourish, reapply AM3, and sit in capped DT with 3.2 attacks per attack round before any sort of multiattack. Which means once you're capped on DT or as close to it as you reasonably can be, you could swap multiattack for accuracy, status effect resist, MEVA, whatever.

It also means you can do more shenanigans with your Flourishes, and lose less white damage, because you're having to do fewer steps. 3 Steps to get to 9 Finishing Moves instead of 5 without Terpsichore, less time you're in animation lock, more time to auto-attack, use other JAs, like your Waltzes, or just more time to try to run away from something and/or slap on a panic -DT set.

There's also the accuracy on your steps themselves. Quickstep is "only" -44 Evasion when capped out, but that's and additional 22% hit rate for yourself and the other DDs, and you can stack it using fewer JAs. If you were are roughly rock bottom, 20% hit rate, you'd be missing half your Quicksteps instead of 4 out of 5, and going from ~20% to ~42% hit rate would be a major improvement in damage. Sure, you could do it without Terps, but it would take longer, and if the monster is occasionally removing its debuffs, you'd be wasting more time reapplying it, and that's not just time you're not attacking but time your other DDs are whiffing more than they could be.

The boost in damage to Pyrrhic Kleos- the +30% Kleos damage- combined with the AM3- is going to be significant, and you can spam it at 1kTP instead of having to hold TP for Rudra's. With Fotia Belt and Gorget, you're looking at Kleos going from an 'effective' 9.75 fTP to 12.675 (assuming ACC cap, not considering any multiattack, such as that from AM3). Rudra's Storm at 2kTP (1750 with moonshade) is 10.19 fTP- so if it's straight up spam you're not only spamming Kleos up to twice as fast (roughly) but it's also dealing over twice as much as unstacked Rudra's will. When you consider the fact that the odds of AM3 not activating on Kleos are 2.56%, you're looking at, before any multiattack, 5.72 hits (if hit rate capped), per Kleos, which translates to you spamming a weapon skill at 1kTP that has an 'effective' fTP of 14.5, instead of spamming Rudra's at 1750~2000 TP for an 'effective' fTP of about 10.19. So you're dealing about 40% more per WS, and twice as often. So when it comes to spamming WSes, it's a significant difference.

I have personally never seen a Dancer with Terpsichore and comparable gear and buffs outDPSed by a Dancer with Twashtar, and it contributes to your survivability, on top of -DT gear, in a way Twashtar can't.

tl;dr: get a Terpsichore.

Apologies for spelling errors and minor math errors; I've done this math before for my specific builds, which include other multiattack sources, and the results are extremely close to what the lower bound on mine are, so...

Meanwhile, finally got my Regal Ring last night, and I've been out of the Dancer loop and gearing for almost a year; am I going to be using Regal and Epona's more or less full-time outside of -DT, or Raja's and Epona's for the StoreTP for TPing, and switching to Regal for WSes? I'm ignorant of what other options I might now have. Leaning towards using it on WSes unless I can get more StoreTP somewhere else without sacrificing more than I'm gaining.
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By Bismarck.Nickeny 2017-10-30 16:43:33
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Ehhh

Thats alot of situational stuff to happen to make terp look good...
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By Leviathan.Sidra 2017-10-30 16:59:27
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In terms of doing damage, DNC's defining quality is it's best in game skillchain damage bonus and how well it synergizes with it's ability to spike weaponskill damage.

This make Aeneas best for DNC, and it only takes the sheer devastation of one Exenterator > Rudra's > Eviseration > Climactic Rudra's to see why.

A DNC not making skillchains should probably not be on DNC. It's like playing minus all your good dps traits. All jobs are capable of way more than people give them credit for. So I am sure there are uses for the other weapons and that you would get good milage out of them. But whereas other jobs tend to be more simple and blunt in how the output damage, DNC output is far more precise, like a surgeon. And Aeneas is the best tool for that job.

Edit: Evisceration not Dancing
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-10-30 17:03:41
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Leviathan.Sidra said: »
In terms of doing damage, DNC's defining quality is it's best in game skillchain damage bonus and how well it synergizes with it's ability to spike weaponskill damage.

This make Aeneas best for DNC, and it only takes the sheer devastation of one Exenterator > Rudra's > Dancing > Climactic Rudra's to see why.

A DNC not making skillchains should probably not be on DNC. It's like playing minus all your good dps traits. All jobs are capable of way more than people give them credit for. So I am sure there are uses for the other weapons and that you would get good milage out of them. But whereas other jobs tend to be more simple and blunt in how the output damage, DNC output is far more precise, like a surgeon. And Aeneas is the best tool for that job.

lol Terp beats is hands down Sidra, 3 step double darkness is easy with minimal effort, and can drop down to a much lower dps tier and use Aeneas main hand for light/radiance but the damage and SC damage is sucky vs Terp. Terp > Twash > Aeneas imo and yes I own all 3
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By Leviathan.Sidra 2017-10-30 17:10:37
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I would love to see a parse that includes skillchain damage trying both. People always just look at the personal DPS, and Terp will beat that no doubt. But when you include the skillchain damage - I dunno. Not saying your wrong, but I would like to see it.

Got a good idea for a target dummy? Most things don't live through that.
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-10-30 17:13:10
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Outside dragons which are NOT good due to fly and sleep and terror and adds only thing worth it are like WKR bird. I usually just go there and take 5% of its HP every 3 step SC and less when I do light/radiance spam

I'll chat you in game in a few min
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By Cerberus.Mrkillface 2017-10-30 17:52:59
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I haven't bothered comparing the damage between terp and aeneas main hand because honestly, the bonuses to steps/finishing moves and PK on terp are just too good to give up. I main hand aeneas over vajra 90% of the time on thf now, but on dnc it's just to big of a change to play style to be worth it.

If you've never used terp, you might be okay with it because you don;t know what you're missing, but personally I like having the extra finishing moves, step acc and PK damage.

In regards to all that situational ***the guy above listed: I play DNC in Escha, Omen and w/e else I can get away with it. The odds of me landing an uninterrupted 4 step radiance are infinitely lower than the odds that I will have to wear DT- gear, Heal someone, debuff with steps, etc.

Hell... That's the whole point of the job.
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-10-30 18:08:20
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unbuffed 12k~25k PK on average and with Aeneas Exen is like 3k~15k
Once AM up spamming RS or w/e for SC is why Aeneas is going to do well its just the initial WS to get Am up sucks

with that said, Anyone have a decent Gearset for Exen and what numbers do you see?
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By Shiva.Arislan 2017-10-30 18:14:36
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I was thinking of making Terps, but my concern is that I'd be leaving a lot of potential SC damage on the table by dropping the ability to make Umbra (my LS plays a more SC-oriented style, not so much spam-zerg).

I also was wondering how much the extra steps even matter if we're still effectively bottle-necked by Flourish timers.

The armor flexibility benefits that Ivlilla brought up do seem attractive, tho.
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-10-30 18:20:28
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Making a terp will limit you in some avenue but if you make it and have others it will open up so much more of the job than without.
Like any mythic it is a time sink but not really hard to make.
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By Phoenix.Rikimarueye 2017-10-30 20:10:39
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tfw no one has a DPS spreadsheet for you to use to compare gears :<
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By hobo 2017-10-30 20:22:06
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There is a spreadsheet linked on the bg page, dont remember how many pages back you would have to go here to find one
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By Leviathan.Sidra 2017-10-30 21:08:15
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Not sure a spreadsheet would help much here. The discussion is really around the Skillchain value of the Aeonic. If you have a DNC in a party closing Umbra's as part of a planned skillchain, or let the DNC solo a 4step in a situation where it's viable - it's devastating.

Terp wins in TP spam hands down, and its not even close. And there is also value in lesser step skillchains as they are easier to pull off more often. Without the pre-planning and setup required to maximize Aeneas, Terp is superior.

I don't main DNC, so I only bring it out when I know I am going to get the skillchain use from it, which probably colors my perception. As opposed to a DNC main who may being playing DNC more often trying to max perform in far more diverse situations.
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