Idris Mythic Owners

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Idris Mythic Owners
 Cerberus.Reiden
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By Cerberus.Reiden 2014-11-20 17:58:02
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I would gladly take undispelable buffs over anything else anyday.

For a group like mine (16+), it wouldn't benefit us to have only 1 REM brd. We would have to have 2 REM brds in order for them to coexist efficiently swapping, as opposed to having only 1 idris user and a dunna user where buff duration wouldn't affect the group. For 6 man content either one is awesome.
 Odin.Calipso
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By Odin.Calipso 2014-11-20 18:01:31
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Pantafernando said: »

Being realistic, yagrush wont increase your performance. An excellent whm player or a bot can perform as good as a similar whm with yagrush by using accession wisely, by having multiples sets to reduce the max your recast time, so allowing fast cast of nas.

A good whm will be a good whm even without a Yagrush, but accession as a replacement for Yag is terrible. As /sch you get two strats which can easily be used up by one bad TP move, and recast on them can feel like forever.
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 Asura.Loire
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By Asura.Loire 2014-11-20 18:19:48
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Odin.Calipso said: »
Pantafernando said: »

Being realistic, yagrush wont increase your performance. An excellent whm player or a bot can perform as good as a similar whm with yagrush by using accession wisely, by having multiples sets to reduce the max your recast time, so allowing fast cast of nas.

A good whm will be a good whm even without a Yagrush, but accession as a replacement for Yag is terrible. As /sch you get two strats which can easily be used up by one bad TP move, and recast on them can feel like forever.
For sure agreeing on that. Nothing is better than letting you use accession on regen4 only.
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 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2014-11-20 18:35:44
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accension cure iv stoneskin tho
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-11-20 18:36:04
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an "ideal" setup will be using 2 (3 at most) DDs in melee range at any given time. WHM and BRD can cover them both!
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-11-20 18:37:02
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yorcia delve is the only event that comes to mind with so much debuff spam that you can't keep up with accession, but most people bring 2 mages to that and it's a joke either way

the biggest benefit i've seen from my yagrush is not having to check who a single target tp move is targeting, can just cast on any DD when i see it ready
 Odin.Calipso
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By Odin.Calipso 2014-11-20 18:37:03
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Forgot to mention that things like accesion + erase can hurt more than it can help.

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Activating this Stratagem doubles the MP cost and recast time of the spell and nullifies the Light Arts recast time and MP cost reduction.

When used from Scholar support job, Accession will triple spell recast.

Unless you have an impeccable haste/FC set (and even if you do) + capped magic haste, using accession with certain spells makes for terrible recast timers. You're better off just spamming normal erases and hoping for an emp head proc or two.

Imo yag + erases is where it shines the most.
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 Odin.Calipso
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By Odin.Calipso 2014-11-20 18:45:07
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
yorcia delve is the only event that comes to mind with so much debuff spam that you can't keep up with accession, but most people bring 2 mages to that and it's a joke either way

the biggest benefit i've seen from my yagrush is not having to check who a single target tp move is targeting, can just cast on any DD when i see it ready

All Delve2 zones have nms that can be pretty shitty. Delve 1 shouldn't be an issue unless your stunner sucks. Incursion without a yag and a shitty stunner (or no stunner- never joining a pug incursion again!) is a nightmare.

Guess it really just depends on your support. If you don't have support that likes to help with nas and erases, or if your stunner often misses moves, you're probably gonna have a bad time.

Yag is one of those things that really makes up for shitty support.
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-11-20 18:49:06
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incursion without a stunner/good stunner sounds like an exercise in futility

don't know of anyone who does kamihr or marjami with more than 2 DD in aoe though, usually sam mnk or pld with rngs..

i'll agree that it gains ground if your support suck, but personally seen pretty minimal difference since obtaining it
 Asura.Highwynn
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By Asura.Highwynn 2014-11-20 19:12:29
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An idris+ bolster'd barrier gives my pld damn near 4k defense when i put defender up. Can reduce mob attack by like 100% and since no lv correction, hit your dds for low double digits on tp moves lol.
 Lakshmi.Konvict
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By Lakshmi.Konvict 2014-11-20 20:40:18
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Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
General consensus is that Idris Geo > Relic+Mythic+Empy Bard.
Sorry but that's all opinion. I disagree.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-11-20 20:41:06
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Lakshmi.Konvict said: »
Sorry but that's all opinion. I disagree.
and that would make you wrong
 Lakshmi.Konvict
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By Lakshmi.Konvict 2014-11-20 21:24:07
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It's an opinion, freedom of speech?
 Asura.Fiv
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By Asura.Fiv 2014-11-20 21:28:53
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You don't actually have to choose between using either.
SAM SAM GEO BRD COR WHM

But for what its worth, building horn, harp, and Carn for BRD is far more expensive and more work then making an Idris.
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 Bismarck.Inference
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By Bismarck.Inference 2014-11-20 21:29:07
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Except there's math behind it.
 Odin.Calipso
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By Odin.Calipso 2014-11-20 21:45:27
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You can actually, very easily, 4-5 man 5 out of 6 delve zones with DD(ideally sam), whm, brd, geo/blm, and a cor (but cor not necessary). You could probably also do Geo/blm, dd, whm if you really wanted to.

In a straight strength of buffs comparison of idris vs rem brd, idris should win. That shouldn't devalue brd though, as again ideally you would bring both as they complement each other quite well. Without a brd, you'd have to give up a a buff for geo/indi-haste.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2014-11-20 22:23:37
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Konvict you never appreciated anything about GEO.
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By Pantafernando 2014-11-21 06:45:10
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Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
Dude buffs that can not be dispelled are light years ahead of dispel-able 9min songs.

Just to add this is partially truth, not entirely.

While songs are dispellable, it isnt like every mob in game has a full dispel move (even a partial dispel has a probability of dispelling stuffs like protect, shell, jas, etc), and not every mob with full dispel is unstunable.

And while geo luopan and indi magic are immune to dispel effect, both luopan and geo are subject to dmg in every normal attack and tp move, as they need to be in front line to have full use of thier potential. Im seeing everyone is ignoring the risk of a geomancer dying, but that risk exist, and a weakened geo will see his potential dropped to half as he cant stand in front line while weakened, while a weakened brd would still manage to land good songs, and even insta cast songs if you use nitro.

Obviously elite parties, that can run countless event without casualities, the risk can be neglected, but as you go down the pyramid, certains factors must be considered to make a wise choice.

Finally, being immune to dispel just make geo situationally better (not considering potency, just the afirmation quoted). In situations without dispel, non dispellable indi/geo magic arent ahead dispellable songs.
 Cerberus.Anjisnu
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2014-11-21 06:49:49
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To sum this thread up make all the things and use as needed!
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 Cerberus.Avalon
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By Cerberus.Avalon 2014-11-21 06:56:59
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Odin.Calipso said: »
Cerberus.Avalon said: »
Quick question: Are you satisfied with the club?

Obviously the stats for the 119 model are excellent, but I'm curious about the effort vs. final product comparison. I'm about 2 weeks away from my Nirvana and then I'm looking at either Yagrush or Idris, so I thought I'd try and get some feedback on this.

Thanks.

Mythics are more work (easy work, but still lots of work and things to do)to make than Ergons. Ergons are more expensive.

Yag is useful in different ways than Idris so they're a little hard to compare. I'm assuming that since you're considering a Yag, you play whm a decent amount, and have a general idea of how useful it'd be.

That being said Idris are rare and pretty stupidly OP right now. If you have the resources to make one you're probably better off doing that, unless you really, really like whm. A good geo is pretty versatile with what they can do, our LS doesn't bring scholars to stun stuff anymore (outside of maybe Incursion) as a Geo is capable of solo stunning Delve. As /rdm or /whm they can offer a fair amount of support. (Unless they're lazy ***!). With an Idris you'd be pretty much set for endgame, any smart LS would snap that up in heartbeat.

Not sure what's always up with the geo vs brd thing, as ideally in a big alliance you'd bring both, they complement each other pretty well. However, a geo can replace a brd in a pinch, outside of a few situations where multiple or unique brd buffs are mandatory (think scherzo and preludes), or maybe when MP is going to be a big issue, or maybe if you're running around a lot and people aren't staying grouped up.

From my understanding it takes a looooooooong time to get to legendary in all the coalitions, if you're serious about both jobs and have the resources(mostly gil) it can't hurt to work on them both at the same time, it's not like they compete with each other in terms of objectives.

I have 99 R/E/M on brd and honestly at this point in the game I'd make an Idris over those, just because it seems like so many people have 3-4 song brds and Carn isn't all that unique or special, all it allows you to do is be lazier with songs, or extend SV/CC if it's actually needed. I wouldn't pick it over my Yag though, but that's just me as whm's been my main/favorite job since 2005 or so >_>
Odin.Calipso said: »
Cerberus.Avalon said: »
Quick question: Are you satisfied with the club?

Obviously the stats for the 119 model are excellent, but I'm curious about the effort vs. final product comparison. I'm about 2 weeks away from my Nirvana and then I'm looking at either Yagrush or Idris, so I thought I'd try and get some feedback on this.

Thanks.

Mythics are more work (easy work, but still lots of work and things to do)to make than Ergons. Ergons are more expensive.

Yag is useful in different ways than Idris so they're a little hard to compare. I'm assuming that since you're considering a Yag, you play whm a decent amount, and have a general idea of how useful it'd be.

That being said Idris are rare and pretty stupidly OP right now. If you have the resources to make one you're probably better off doing that, unless you really, really like whm. A good geo is pretty versatile with what they can do, our LS doesn't bring scholars to stun stuff anymore (outside of maybe Incursion) as a Geo is capable of solo stunning Delve. As /rdm or /whm they can offer a fair amount of support. (Unless they're lazy ***!). With an Idris you'd be pretty much set for endgame, any smart LS would snap that up in heartbeat.

Not sure what's always up with the geo vs brd thing, as ideally in a big alliance you'd bring both, they complement each other pretty well. However, a geo can replace a brd in a pinch, outside of a few situations where multiple or unique brd buffs are mandatory (think scherzo and preludes), or maybe when MP is going to be a big issue, or maybe if you're running around a lot and people aren't staying grouped up.

From my understanding it takes a looooooooong time to get to legendary in all the coalitions, if you're serious about both jobs and have the resources(mostly gil) it can't hurt to work on them both at the same time, it's not like they compete with each other in terms of objectives.

I have 99 R/E/M on brd and honestly at this point in the game I'd make an Idris over those, just because it seems like so many people have 3-4 song brds and Carn isn't all that unique or special, all it allows you to do is be lazier with songs, or extend SV/CC if it's actually needed. I wouldn't pick it over my Yag though, but that's just me as whm's been my main/favorite job since 2005 or so >_>

Thanks for all the great feedback guys.

After reading some of the responses I think the impression might have been given that I was trying to choose between either Yagrush or Idris based on similar utilities (or support dynamics). In actuality, the potential choices is simply because I really like both jobs and they're geared well.

It's been super helpful to see all the reasonings behind everyone's perspectives. I learned quite a bit that I didn't know previously (like some of the Bolster numbers between Idris and Dunna). There are so many end-game venues where I'd love to have a Yagrush (Outer Ra'Kaz, Delve, Incursion etc.), but as you and others have mentioned, there aren't many Idris's floating around to offer up all those perks and benefits.

As far as resources, I'm in the same boat as most mythic makers right now (nearly broke all the time due to Alex), but I have no problem pursuing something I'm really interested in. Perhaps I could churn out another mythic in less time that it took to make Nirvana (May-December 6th-ish).
 Cerberus.Spirachub
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By Cerberus.Spirachub 2014-11-21 06:58:40
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Not sure why people are even talking about carn, Avalon was asking about yag or idris!

Idris > Yag. Idris is your bread and butter weapon on geo, and while yag is nice and awesome, it's a situational weapon on whm. Though the cost and the effort on an Idris (assuming you haven't capped all your rank) is considerably higher.

But you also have to factor in what you play more. If your linkshell is using you as their #1 go to whm and you hardly play geo, then yagrush might be the better option of course.
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By gargurty 2014-11-21 07:00:55
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Small question: how do you uphold your am3? Or how do you get it, cos all i see now is that i need to melee for tp. Only found one pair of legs that would give you occultacumen. So how do you do it?
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By charlo999 2014-11-21 07:59:13
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Depends on your party setup, to whether or not your getting melee buffs.
Hit rate is the most important obviously. So if your in the main party getting buffs or the content is low enough that your acc is good can swap to a to set and add damage instead of standing there doing nothing. Swapping to pdt/mdt when needed. Flash novaing.
If acc is too low/in small outside party/content is too high and melee is pointless could always add nukes and just keep yourself sustained with full circle merited/gloves.
Situationally you can add quite a bit of damage though.
 Cerberus.Avalon
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By Cerberus.Avalon 2014-11-21 08:33:22
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Cerberus.Spirachub said: »
Not sure why people are even talking about carn, Avalon was asking about yag or idris!

Idris > Yag. Idris is your bread and butter weapon on geo, and while yag is nice and awesome, it's a situational weapon on whm. Though the cost and the effort on an Idris (assuming you haven't capped all your rank) is considerably higher.

But you also have to factor in what you play more. If your linkshell is using you as their #1 go to whm and you hardly play geo, then yagrush might be the better option of course.

I'm Legendary rank in 1 Coalition right now, so I'd be mostly starting from scratch. This is particularly so due to having sold all HP Bayld I've aacquired up to this point.

One thing I'm a bit irritated about is the lack of options to reliably solo HP Bayld like you can Alexandrite. Obviously you can farm singles in Reives, but the pouches or whatnot generally come from WKR's, which are mostly not soloable.
 Cerberus.Spirachub
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By Cerberus.Spirachub 2014-11-21 08:39:22
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Cerberus.Avalon said: »
Cerberus.Spirachub said: »
Not sure why people are even talking about carn, Avalon was asking about yag or idris!

Idris > Yag. Idris is your bread and butter weapon on geo, and while yag is nice and awesome, it's a situational weapon on whm. Though the cost and the effort on an Idris (assuming you haven't capped all your rank) is considerably higher.

But you also have to factor in what you play more. If your linkshell is using you as their #1 go to whm and you hardly play geo, then yagrush might be the better option of course.

I'm Legendary rank in 1 Coalition right now, so I'd be mostly starting from scratch. This is particularly so due to having sold all HP Bayld I've aacquired up to this point.

One thing I'm a bit irritated about is the lack of options to reliably solo HP Bayld like you can Alexandrite. Obviously you can farm singles in Reives, but the pouches or whatnot generally come from WKR's, which are mostly not soloable.

With a mage job some of the WKR are pretty easy to solo, just on the slow side. But then again it's probably not a big issue since people are still flopping to WKR when it gets shouted in town.

It's a shame that you can't solo farm bayld efficiently like alex, but on the up side you're not restricted to a run a day. There are several things in adoulin that gets you bayld.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2014-11-21 08:48:47
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Quote:
Im seeing everyone is ignoring the risk of a geomancer dying, but that risk exist, and a weakened geo will see his potential dropped to half as he cant stand in front line while weakened

Which is why a good GEO needs a good DT set, and a hybrid for (non-idris users) to cap both pet dt and geo pdt/mdt. I play GEO front line in many battlefields, and I rarely die if I have whm sub. People are forgetting that Luopans are a tool for the entire Party, including the Geomancer. Between Mending Halation (cureaga, yes, merit this) and Radial Arcana (for when you need MP in a pinch), and just cure bombing yourself with meritted Full Circle, you can stay alive through tough times as GEO. It's not really a reputable excuse here, because a Bard could die mid-insta songs from a poorly-timed AOE as well. I see your point, but GEO has the ability to survive significantly longer than a BRD in close range, due primarily to Full Circle.

Quote:
One thing I'm a bit irritated about is the lack of options to reliably solo HP Bayld like you can Alexandrite. Obviously you can farm singles in Reives, but the pouches or whatnot generally come from WKR's, which are mostly not soloable.

And those pouches are most certainly a piece of ***. I've gotten maybe 2 in 100 WKRs. One had 9, the other 3. Its a good steal when you find one, but that's not the best way to farm bayld. If you have tons of mules (I do not), mass Baylding through Coalition assignments is a great way to gain high amounts of bayld. You can also venture into some of the harder Reive areas and solo monsters til no end (not the structures). There is a reliable way to farm HPB - its called farming bayld and converting them. Sure 10,000 - 1 is a horrible ratio, but you have an unlimited supply of gaining bayld, unlike alexandrite where you are limited per run. Quite literally speaking, there is no limit to the amount of Bayld you can farm, which equates to virtually an unending supply of HPBs over time. It just takes time.
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 Asura.Hoshiku
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By Asura.Hoshiku 2014-11-21 10:50:40
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
You can also venture into some of the harder Reive areas and solo monsters til no end (not the structures).

Do you know a trick that I don't? I thought all reives awarded bayld based on how much damage has been done to the structure and once that damage stops you can only gain xp from evaluations.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2014-11-21 11:07:08
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That's not completely accurate from what I can tell. If that were the case, jobs like WHM would never gain bayld from Reives assuming they never dealt any damage. But rather, they cure, buff/raise etc others, which counts towards the evaluation process.

So while the maximum bayld value(the cap) is based solely on how much damage is dealt to the structure, individual player actions leading up to the final evaluation (when the reive ends) also plays a role in how much exp/bayld you can earn. You don't necessarily have to fight the structure or Naak to gain bayld. It just means that you cannot gain the upper limits of bayld unless you actually deal large amounts of damage to the structure. But you can still gain bayld from fighting monsters.

There are dozens of times when I go to WKR's and I fight the monsters and not the Naak, and I gain Bayld. The same is true of normal reives. You just get more bayld from fighting the structures or Naak.
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By Asura.Hoshiku 2014-11-21 11:11:50
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Right, I didn't mean there aren't multiple ways to get evals, but there's a set amount of bayld per reive and so soloing the mobs in a reive with no one damaging the structure would result in 0 bayld.
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By Cerberus.Spirachub 2014-11-21 11:13:37
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you can get a lot of bayld on whm during WKR, not sure if they fixed it yet but curaga on your trust would make you cure everyone in range, that is everyone outside the party + their trusts. I was getting 5k per evaluation on whm.

And from what i understand, you just have to maintain some form of dmg to the structure to get exp/bayld. So as a mage you can just dot it. But i might be wrong as I haven't done this for a while...
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