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WMD's found...
By Altimaomega 2014-10-17 00:28:27
Personally when I hear WMD every big weapon other than A-H Bombs come to mind. Otherwise why not just say NUKE! Silly logic I know..
Eh, WMD's is one of those ambiguous terms that is purposefully used to be a catch-all for anything that isn't a conventional firearm or explosive. Large scale weapons are basically incendiary/explosive, chemical, biological, thermonuclear. Chemical and biological weapons are basically never considered WMD's because they aren't designed to cause destruction, but simply death. Dedicated electrostatic weapons are more destructive than chemical or biological weapons but infinitely less deadly.
Clarification - The Flu Ebola is a WMD by that logic.
ftfy
 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-10-17 01:11:30
Quote: Then, during the long occupation, American troops began encountering old chemical munitions in hidden caches and roadside bombs. Typically 155-millimeter artillery shells or 122-millimeter rockets, they were remnants of an arms program Iraq had rushed into production in the 1980s during the Iran-Iraq war.
All had been manufactured before 1991, participants said. Filthy, rusty or corroded, a large fraction of them could not be readily identified as chemical weapons at all. Some were empty, though many of them still contained potent mustard agent or residual sarin. Most could not have been used as designed, and when they ruptured dispersed the chemical agents over a limited area, according to those who collected the majority of them.
In case after case, participants said, analysis of these warheads and shells reaffirmed intelligence failures. First, the American government did not find what it had been looking for at the war’s outset, then it failed to prepare its troops and medical corps for the aged weapons it did find.
learn to read articles before making a thread to gloat.
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By maldini 2014-10-17 14:16:06
Personally when I hear WMD every big weapon other than A-H Bombs come to mind. Otherwise why not just say NUKE! Silly logic I know..
Clarification - The Flu is a WMD by that logic.
So are Tenshibaby's posts.
By Primal623 2014-10-20 12:01:05
They could try creating a thread that is actually based on facts. You are talking about Ten?
Two chances, fat and slim.
FAT and SLIM? In a thread about WEAPONS? Oh there's a conspiracy here, but it's not in the Middle East...
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-10-21 10:00:41
So much twisting to hold onto that hate.
Maybe libs just can't stand that they've been fooled for the last 10 years?
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-10-21 10:29:06
From the OP's article...
Quote: The United States had gone to war declaring it must destroy an active weapons of mass destruction program. Instead, American troops gradually found and ultimately suffered from the remnants of long-abandoned programs, built in close collaboration with the West. Quote: Then, during the long occupation, American troops began encountering old chemical munitions in hidden caches and roadside bombs. Typically 155-millimeter artillery shells or 122-millimeter rockets, they were remnants of an arms program Iraq had rushed into production in the 1980s during the Iran-Iraq war.
All had been manufactured before 1991, participants said. Filthy, rusty or corroded, a large fraction of them could not be readily identified as chemical weapons at all. Some were empty, though many of them still contained potent mustard agent or residual sarin. Most could not have been used as designed, and when they ruptured dispersed the chemical agents over a limited area, according to those who collected the majority of them.
In case after case, participants said, analysis of these warheads and shells reaffirmed intelligence failures. First, the American government did not find what it had been looking for at the war’s outset, then it failed to prepare its troops and medical corps for the aged weapons it did find. Quote: The United States government says the abandoned weapons no longer pose a threat. Quote: Participants in the chemical weapons discoveries said the United States suppressed knowledge of finds for multiple reasons, including that the government bristled at further acknowledgment it had been wrong. “They needed something to say that after Sept. 11 Saddam used chemical rounds,” Mr. Lampier said. “And all of this was from the pre-1991 era.”
Others pointed to another embarrassment. In five of six incidents in which troops were wounded by chemical agents, the munitions appeared to have been designed in the United States, manufactured in Europe and filled in chemical agent production lines built in Iraq by Western companies.
You should read part 2 of the article as well as it goes more into how the west had always known about these weapons and had even aided in their development and construction.
Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-10-21 13:10:11
Given the fact that we're still finding stockpiles of weapons we knew for certain existed from the 90s, why are liberals so venomous to the idea that just because we didn't find any doesn't mean they weren't there. Nor does it mean that going to war didn't prevent their eventual use in Islamic terrorism.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-10-21 13:18:25
/yawn. Can this thread die already? There was no new WMD program in Iraq. Bush lied. Nothing liberal about this fact.
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Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-10-21 13:21:08
/yawn. Can this thread die already? There was no new WMD program in Iraq. Bush lied. Nothing liberal about this fact.
Unsecured speculation, nothing more.
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By Odin.Godofgods 2014-10-21 13:30:14
/yawn. Can this thread die already? There was no new WMD program in Iraq. Bush lied. Nothing liberal about this fact.
Im not saying they do or they don't, but we debated going to Iraq, on public television none the less, for a good while before we actually went there. Wouldn't ya think if Saddam did have them or was building them, he would have destroyed or given them to another nation/group before we got there?
Kinda like raiding a drug den after they moved the product and saying 'we didn't find anything here, there for they never could have possessed drugs."
Again, not saying iraq had or didnt have them, but IF they did have them it would be nearly impossible to prove.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-10-21 13:31:24
Given the fact that we're still finding stockpiles of weapons we knew for certain existed from the 90s, why are liberals so venomous to the idea that just because we didn't find any doesn't mean they weren't there. Nor does it mean that going to war didn't prevent their eventual use in Islamic terrorism. They were from the 80's mostly... the conflict they were produced for seemed to have ended in 1991. I encourage you to read part 2 of the article.
The idea was that we went to war to prevent the use of WMD's against US interests that Iraq had possession of. Everything they've found so far we have known to exist and had known for quite awhile and had a hand in their production. Did we know where all of them were stored? Obviously not. If the government at the time had come out and said that these were the WMDs they were talking about, which the article points out were no longer a threat, then it would be a different story. It was presented as an active threat and that if we didn't take care of it that it would be a problem for us. What all of a sudden made weapons that we had known about for over a decade a threat to us now?
It doesn't look like it prevented that anyways Nausi. Part of the article also discusses how small amounts of the stuff have fallen into their hands. right now its thought that they'll actually hurt themselves more with it as they don't know how to effectively use it but its also commented on that they have about a half billion dollars in funding so they might be able to learn how to.
By Jetackuu 2014-10-21 13:31:51
Not really, the equipment used in making them isn't easily disposed of, we'd have found something, even traces.
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By Odin.Godofgods 2014-10-21 13:31:55
Sadam was known to have used chemical weapons in the early 90's, this is hardly a revelation. Moreover, GWB and his cronies weren't talking about abandoned decades old stashes of chemical weapons, they were talking about nuclear weapons and dirty bombs, which to this day have not been found.
Implying that not enough ppl were being killed by chemical weapons for us to care?
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By Phoenix.Demonjustin 2014-10-21 13:36:05
How long must someone search before they can say something isn't there without being told it's simply speculation? I mean, that argument feels like arguing with a child. You check under the bed and point out there's no monsters, but they are so fearful that there really are monsters so they claim you just didn't see them. No amount of checking under that bed will seem to be proof enough for them to agree, the monsters they believe existed weren't there.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-10-21 13:36:06
Unsecured speculation, nothing more.
Yes, thats an accurate description of your conservative conspiracy theories.
Im not saying they do or they don't, but we debated going to Iraq, on public television none the less, for a good while before we actually went there. Wouldn't ya think if Saddam did have them or was building them, he would have destroyed or given them to another nation/group before we got there?
Absolutely not. As we saw with Syria, you can't just destroy WMDs on a whim. It doesn't work. The world was given a first hand look at how its done in the last year. Saddam didn't have an ongoing WMD program. Its concrete fact, as the article tenshibaby posted stated.
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Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-10-21 13:37:02
/yawn. Can this thread die already? There was no new WMD program in Iraq. Bush lied. Nothing liberal about this fact.
Im not saying they do or they don't, but we debated going to Iraq, on public television none the less, for a good while before we actually went there. Wouldn't ya think if Saddam did have them or was building them, he would have destroyed or given them to another nation/group before we got there?
Kinda like raiding a drug den after they moved the product and saying 'we didn't find anything here, there for they never could have possessed drugs."
Again, not saying iraq had or didnt have them, but IF they did have them it would be nearly impossible to prove. That would also mean that they would have had to destroy any trace of the program as well. That would mean any documentation and any facility related to the manufacture and production. They would also have had to hid the transfer from satelites and other such methods we used to spy on Iraq at the time. We were watching very closely at the time and every single person involved would have had to never speak about it. We've been there quite awhile now investigating so it's unlikely... I guess stranger things have happened though.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-10-21 13:38:02
Sadam was known to have used chemical weapons in the early 90's, this is hardly a revelation. Moreover, GWB and his cronies weren't talking about abandoned decades old stashes of chemical weapons, they were talking about nuclear weapons and dirty bombs, which to this day have not been found.
Implying that not enough ppl were being killed by chemical weapons for us to care? We didn't care. We wanted them to take out the iranians.
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-10-21 13:46:44
Given the fact that we're still finding stockpiles of weapons we knew for certain existed from the 90s, why are liberals so venomous to the idea that just because we didn't find any doesn't mean they weren't there. Nor does it mean that going to war didn't prevent their eventual use in Islamic terrorism.
Correct, not finding them didn't mean they weren't there, nor prevented their use by terrorists. However, my magical anti-wmd sword+1 kept them from appearing, and prevented the terrorists from using them.
Let's just say you dont't want me to cast magic missile.
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By Jetackuu 2014-10-21 13:55:14
Given the fact that we're still finding stockpiles of weapons we knew for certain existed from the 90s, why are liberals so venomous to the idea that just because we didn't find any doesn't mean they weren't there. Nor does it mean that going to war didn't prevent their eventual use in Islamic terrorism.
Correct, not finding them didn't mean they weren't there, nor prevented their use by terrorists. However, my magical anti-wmd sword+1 kept them from appearing, and prevented the terrorists from using them.
Let's just say you dont't want me to cast magic missile. 
Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-10-21 14:01:29
Given the fact that we're still finding stockpiles of weapons we knew for certain existed from the 90s, why are liberals so venomous to the idea that just because we didn't find any doesn't mean they weren't there. Nor does it mean that going to war didn't prevent their eventual use in Islamic terrorism.
Correct, not finding them didn't mean they weren't there, nor prevented their use by terrorists. However, my magical anti-wmd sword+1 kept them from appearing, and prevented the terrorists from using them.
Let's just say you dont't want me to cast magic missile.
Except you're equating your mythical sword to the actual threat of US military intervention.
=/=
Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-10-21 14:18:01
Given the fact that we're still finding stockpiles of weapons we knew for certain existed from the 90s, why are liberals so venomous to the idea that just because we didn't find any doesn't mean they weren't there. Nor does it mean that going to war didn't prevent their eventual use in Islamic terrorism.
Correct, not finding them didn't mean they weren't there, nor prevented their use by terrorists. However, my magical anti-wmd sword+1 kept them from appearing, and prevented the terrorists from using them.
Let's just say you dont't want me to cast magic missile.
Except you're equating your mythical sword to the actual threat of US military intervention.
=/= Contributing lack of occurance to something without substantiated proof gives no evidence of effectiveness.
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 Leviathan.Protey
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By Leviathan.Protey 2014-10-21 14:37:33
Personally when I hear WMD every big weapon other than A-H Bombs come to mind. Otherwise why not just say NUKE! Silly logic I know..
Eh, WMD's is one of those ambiguous terms that is purposefully used to be a catch-all for anything that isn't a conventional firearm or explosive. Large scale weapons are basically incendiary/explosive, chemical, biological, thermonuclear. Chemical and biological weapons are basically never considered WMD's because they aren't designed to cause destruction, but simply death. Dedicated electrostatic weapons are more destructive than chemical or biological weapons but infinitely less deadly.
Clarification - The Flu is a WMD by that logic.
chemical/biological weapons are designed more for delay tactics than causing death. while some of them do cause death, not all of them do, but they both have the purpose of causing great strain on the logistical systems of the entity afflicted with them.
...apologies can be sent to me and W.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html
NY Times, hardly a conservative paper.
I told many of you this not too long ago, and was met by standard liberal nervous derision.
Oh yeah, and Bush won the election, and global warming is a hoax.
http://prepareforchange.net/archives/top-scientist-resigns-from-post-admits-global-warming-is-a-scam
Have a nice day!
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